2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIt's just a number, right, Hillary?
...bullshit. It's the difference between food and medicine; utilities or shelter; gas or a replacement pair of shoes or clothing to replace the worn, hole-filled ones.
Fresh off a meeting with national labor leaders, Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday spoke favorably about legislation to raise the federal minimum wage to $12 an hour, tacitly dismissing proposals by her two leading Democratic competitors who have called for a bigger increase.
Speaking with reporters, Mrs. Clinton singled out legislation proposed by Senator Patty Murray, Democrat of Washington, that would establish a $12-an-hour minimum nationwide.
As she has in the past, Mrs. Clinton did not explicitly offer a figure she would like to see adopted, but implied that certain measures, like Ms. Murrays, were more realistic than others: Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and former Gov. Martin OMalley of Maryland, Mrs. Clintons rivals in the Democratic field, both support raising the minimum to $15 an hour.
Lets not just do it for the sake of having a higher number out there, she said. But lets get behind a proposal that actually has a chance of succeeding.
This is the problem with the millionaire class of legislators in Washington - higher wages for workers in America are just an abstraction to them; just a number. For workers, however, higher wages are a reality of sustenance and survival. Hard for someone who drops hundreds of dollars on a haircut, perhaps, to understand. If that seems like a cheap shot, that's just tough. Quibbling and hedging over a higher minimum wage for the millions who rely on that income to survive is a slap in the face of the working-class from elitists grown too accustomed to fattening their already swollen bank accounts from feeding off the public and corporate dole.
Disgusting. Get off of your privileged perch. Stand up and fight for us.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)daybranch
(1,309 posts)but since the rest of the country is in the needy class, her attempts to placate the issue are unlikely to get her any support except from those who prefer to stay victims. Not me Jack!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)wage, yet we have Democrats trying offer non-living wages.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)If they even pay that.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Sadly the TPP will kill more American jobs driving wages lower. My Senator wrote me saying, " will provide $450 million each year to support job training and economic assistance for workers who lose their job due to trade competition." She is acknowledging that Americans will lose their jobs because of the TPP. And she has the nerve to say that $450 million will be used to help those that do lose their jobs. That money won't come from the corporations whose profits will increase, but from taxpayers, putting a huge extra burden on those that don't lose their jobs. And now the Republicons are saying the $450 million should come from Medicare. This is a truly bipartisan screw job.
I volunteer at a foodbank and we are struggling to handle the increase in demand and the loss of donations. At least Sen Sanders offers some hope. Goldman-Sachs is most likely planning the next great bailout extortion.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Yes that's more than Hillary but remember to question everything sure he talks about the $15.00 livable... But does he pay it? No.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)paying as much as Clinton as he isn't expecting the $2 billion dollars from the billionaire class. Goldman-Sachs doesn't give a crap about the min wage.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Now do you have a link for where someone says Clinton will raise anywhere near 2 Billion? Because that number is usually referenced as the cost of the election not one candidates fundraising potential... Seems to be confused here.
I think the real issue is ALL our candidates should practice what they preach and NONE of them do.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Here is the link you asked for: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/us/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-presidential-campaign.html?_r=0
There are a number of other sources listed.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Local reporting by local folks which is more than the Gannet rag, The Burlington Free Press can say ever since they decimated the news room there.
I was also disappointed to see it, but to be fair all the candidates need to improve here. I doubt any of them hit $15.00 and hour.
Looks like you were right about the 2 billion, that's a staggering number.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)She doesn't quite seem to grasp that you ask for more than you expect to get.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)The goal of the oligarchs is to keep as many people in slavery as possible and to starve the government. If people made a minimum of $15 an hour, there would fewer people on government programs and more tax revenue.
PatrickforO
(14,593 posts)Don Quixote.
When someone told Hillary in 1992 that most Americans wanted a single payer system - Medicare for all Americans, she replied, "Tell me something I can believe in."
So now, she says that $15/hr isn't 'real.'
C'mon, Hillary - it's called political courage. Have some and you might get my vote!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to it. She appears to be saying that she will only fight for what she thinks is "real", not what people deserve. "Let them eat cake" comes to mind. Feeding them anything more "isn't real".
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)set at $15 an hr. "FIGHT FOR 15".
Doesn't she have a staff to help her with this? Same thing with BLM, she was unaware of the movement which was pretty shocking considering she has the money to hire people who ARE aware of what is going on across the country.
You wouldn't know it from the corporate media, but there have been demonstrations across the country under the banner of 'FIGHT FOR 15' with petitions etc and it isn't going to stop.
Well, she's not my candidate who is part of that movement. So not going to worry about it.
When I hear these wealthy politicians talk like this, I want to ask them to go live on $15 an hour for a while, try to raise a family etc. It just incenses me the way they so dismissively talk about being 'pragmatic' about people, to whom they cannot relate, about all this.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I suppose in a way she is- she's behind the curve trying to protect the people in power.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)PatrickforO
(14,593 posts)EVERYTHING.
There's EVERYTHING wrong with that kind of frivolous expense. Like the recently retired CEO of ATT 'only' getting $75 million bonus for retiring, and Sen. Phil Graham says he was 'exploited.'
The jerks who think it justified to pay $600 for something I have had to do for over a decade myself just to save money, then THEIR TAXES NEED TO BE AT LEAST DOUBLED so we can afford to fix the crumbling infrastructure, make tuition free at state universities and colleges.
The other thing? If some rich guy can afford $600 haircuts once a month, then he can DEFINITELY afford to have the Social Security payroll tax cap lifted SO HE PAYS HIS FAIR SHARE. This would make Social Security solvent for good, and allow its expansion for people who need it.
And what about Medicare for all Americans. There's people out there who have lost everything because they had the bad luck to get sick. HEALTH CARE IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT, and it needs to be free for everyone, like the British system. I'd MUCH rather have my tax dollars go for that than for the F35 fighter, or more wars, or more domestic spying, or more war on drugs.
We've got to get away from the primacy of shareholders and start making policies and chartering corporations that have to consider shareholders, labor, customers and the environment equally.
Well....that was quite a rant, wasn't it?
But, you know, that's what we need to get started on a JUST society.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)If you didn't make over $96,000 last year,
you're not important.
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)She voted for Fast Track and she will sell out Americans at every turn.
I can see why Hillary likes this "compromise." She keeps her corporate masters happy and she appears to help those who are working two to three jobs just to survive.
artislife
(9,497 posts)And I told her and Maria Cantwell why. Those are my dems
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Both her and Jay Inslee came out against impeaching George Bush and Dick Cheney. I've had little confidence in either of them since.
http://www.olywip.org/archive/page/article/2007/05/04.html
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Report1212
(661 posts)Every now and then the real hillary comes out
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)people won't see right through this?
12 is what many private companies are moving to anyway, or even more
when you to try to please both the people and the corporate masters you end up pissing both off.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If she won't fight for us now we can't trust her to do it if she's elected.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)HappyPlace
(568 posts)I mean, who among the millions of underpaid are going to support a living wage?
I mean REALLY!
Hillary, aiming kind of low, doncha think?
jalan48
(13,893 posts)making $12/hr. 20,833 hours to make the same amount. At 40 hours per week that means the person would have to work full time for 10 years just to equal what Hillary makes in a few hours.
I don't think Hillary gets it.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)I think that apology should work for just about anything that comes along.
whathehell
(29,096 posts)means absolutely nothing. I guess she thinks
the masses are too dumb to get that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)do you say something like that with a straight face?
delrem
(9,688 posts)Between being on life support and having some hope.
Get a grip people. Do you really think that smacking others down 'till they're dead is a good option, just so you can "save" on their labor? Save a penny here, a dollar there? Is that what you want your country to be about? If so, then someone is going to be smacking you down, too - unless you're just so fucking entitled that you don't have to care.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dancers_at_the_End_of_Time
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)It's not a cheap shot, but you are stealing from someones playbook.
At least she's not French right?
delrem
(9,688 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Who trains these people in Washington?
Oh, the people on the other side of the negotiating table I suppose?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)And that ain't never gonna happen.
She's the new Bob Dole. It's my turn. Gimme gimme gimme.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)in say 2090 or something.
To me, the biggest fact is that she has the best chance to get a significant increase enacted. All the rest is just noise.
NanceGreggs
(27,819 posts)... is that some people would rather listen to the "noise" than listen to reason.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...we intend to make as much 'noise' as is necessary to achieve a living wage. I make no apologies for amplifying my financial plight and that of others with similar or worse economic challenges. We're evidently not making enough noise to be heard over elitists, obstructionists, and the politically timid.
neverforget
(9,437 posts)it's absolutely reasonable for you and others to want to be paid a living wage. I'm sorry bigtree that there are those that would dismiss your plight as "noise".
NanceGreggs
(27,819 posts)My response was not directed to the OP, but to another poster's comment. And the "noise" being referred to is that of politicians who promise what they know they can't deliver.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...that's what these elections are all about - generating the political capital needed through the registered expectations of voters. In that endeavor, boldness would seem to be the best motivator for animating the political class in the direction of promises and demands. Timidity in election campaigns, generally, only serves to reinforce the status quo.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)No apology required.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...it's at the expense of those standing up and demanding $15*. More likely, she'll fall short of that in some compromise, given the soft and nebulous lip service she's giving to the demands of others. There's no apparent core to her support and she's clearly lowballing the demands of this nationwide protest.
This is politics at its worst, and it's compromising on basic needs which have been repeatedly shortchanged and ignored outright by the political class in Washington for years while the cost of living rose and the standard of living dropped substantially, even as corporate profits saw record increases. These needs of workers are always treated as a miserly afterthought while other expensive ambitions of government are approved and enacted without reservation or reconsideration.
It's disgusting to be told of limits of what will be successful by someone aspiring to lead the nation's political establishment; especially from a member of the millionaire's club who has enriched herself far beyond the means of the vast majority of American voters through those associations advantaged by her public offices.
*edit
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)something at least that good, probably better. And, she has a better chance to get it enacted.
Problem is, many folks are too myopic to see it.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...in two Washington cities, Seattle and Sea-Tac, $15-an-hour minimum wage laws have already been approved, with the ramp-up to $15 starting in Seattle next month.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)or so in most of the rest of country, with exception of other high cost areas.
But whatever, it has to stand a chance of enactment.
2banon
(7,321 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I'm old enough that I earned minimum wage back when it was $1.25/hour. As a single person I could actually survive on that. Just barely. Fortunately for me the minimum was raised to $1.65/hour, and then I got a job that paid a bit more. Since then, I've never had to make it on minimum wage, lucky me, but I recall rather clearly what it was like.
I really wish that those who think the current minimum is just fine would go and live on it for a year. Not for a week or a month, but a year. See what it's really like. Oh, and you need to have a spouse who also works at minimum wage, two or three kids, no car or a car that isn't the most reliable. And then factor in basic health issues. Nothing complicated, just what happens to most people.
Then, and only then can you say that the current minimum is a perfectly good wage.
moobu2
(4,822 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Response to bigtree (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I'm worried we won't get ANY increase for the next couple of years.
The minimum wage should be at $20, never-mind $15 or $12.
What I want to see is Republican legislators in the House that Bernie, or O'Malley or Hillary have lined up to vote for their minimum wage bill.
Point to a few. Point to one. Let's see it.
Otherwise, this manufactured outrage is over something that none of the three can realistically deliver.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...unconscionable insult to those who are struggling to make ends meet on an inadequate wage.
I wonder if your body is as battered and wracked with pain as much as my own working for a wage that barely covers expenses, much less needs. Do you listen to yourself sometimes?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)As an issue for working people, it's one of the more important issues.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)You do not see the river of mourning because it lacks one tear of your own.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)close the gap between the minimum wage there and here in Oregon, he still left it $1 an hour behind for all and for tipped employes Oregon is even more advantageous in that such employees here get paid the full $9.25 minimum wage in addition to any tips they collect. In Maryland, tipped employees can be paid as little as $3.65, the regular minimum wage there being $8.25, which is guaranteed to them if they don't make the tips but still....the Oregon worker is 5.60 ahead on each tipping hour in spite of the on paper wage difference of just $1 between the States.
This sort of thing indicates to me that just looking at a cited hourly figure is not the full picture.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)You said all Democrats are convinced but Hillary is a Democrat and she isn't convinced of a $15 national minimum wage.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Either the $15 or the $12 would pass and I think it should be $20.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)She wants to be the "champion" of the $15 movement, but just not willing to say $15 should be the minimum wage.
And it's not because she doesn't think it would pass. She just doesn't know if it would be a good idea.
"I think part of the reason that the Congress and very strong Democratic supporters of increasing the minimum wage are trying to debate and determine what's the national floor is because there are different economic environments," Clinton told BuzzFeed after a campaign event in New Hampshire. "What you can do in L.A. or in New York may not work in other places."
She'll fight for $12 but she won't fight for $15. Not on my side. Doesn't care about people like me.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)she doesn't support a $15 national minimum wage.
At yet unbelievably you look at it and say she does support it. You should be on fox news.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)Did you lambast John Edwards for his $400 haircuts in 2004?
You know the real reason DU-ers such as you have such a hard time with HRC is that she doesn't pucker up and kiss the backside of every liberal cause that comes down the pike. She knows how things work and doesn't push impractical utopian dreams that have little chance of coming to fruition. It's called being practical.
She is exactly right. A $12 increase that might make it through the House is better than a $15 dollar increase that has no chance.
Response to Persondem (Reply #50)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)That is indisputable.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So people who are struggling to feed their families and have the nerve to criticize Hillary for not fighting for them are just whiny liberals who want their asses kissed?
Good to know we've got folks like you and Hillary on our side.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)But it does justify your indignant self-rightiousness.
Why not go for 20? You uncaring lout you.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Poster boy for George Carlin.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)How about complete jerks for Bernie? Would be a pretty big club here at DU.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)lecturing us about what her positions are.
Cold Fish... I can't get onboard with her.
Does she even want to run? Second thoughts?
Whatever....I'm not in the mood to be lectured to vote for her for positions I disagree with.
She'd have to do much more work that she really cares about what she says than I've seen so far.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Hey ...has she been to Seattle yet ...where the minimum wage is $15?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)who make the food and scrub the floors.
Tone deaf.
brooklynite
(94,751 posts)...in the current political arrangement. If $12 could get passed, and $15 couldn't, would there be a point to advocating $15 (and ending up with no increase at all), other than to feel righteous?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)That would be better than pre-compromising with yourself beforehand.