Nobody is forcing you to vote for Hillary Clinton.

[Cali_Democrat]

There really is no need to write letters to the DNC or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz telling them that you won't vote for Hillary.

Believe it or not, we have a primary process that will begin on Feb 1, 2016. All 50 states will eventually get a chance to choose their preferred Democratic nominee.

There will be a number of candidates on the Democratic side of the ballot including Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton.

If you think Bernie Sanders is the best candidate, please cast your vote for him. Nobody is forcing you to vote for Hillary and people will not come knocking down your door if you choose Bernie or any candidate other than Hillary. In 2008, I chose Obama over Hillary and nobody came after me.

Please exercise your right to vote and choose the primary candidate you believe will make the best President.

It's very simple.

[misterhighwasted]

1. Why does Sanders & peeps attack everything DEM yet run on the great DEM ticket?

Why.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I believe you are over-simplifying with this statement.

Sanders and his followers do not attack EVERYTHING Dem. We have problems with some of what is being promoted, not ALL of it.

[George II]

21. Maybe Sanders should have thought more in advance before he and his surrogates....

...decided to start criticizing an organization that he never intended to join in the first place?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. When change won't come from within it must come from outside.

[George II]

43. That's not the way it works - the best way to change things is from the inside....

....where one could be effective. Changing from the outside doesn't work.

If he's really interested in changing from the "outside", of the two parties we all know that the republican party is more screwed up, why doesn't he change them from the outside?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. With the third way and triangulation?

[left-of-center2012]

50. the best way to change things is from the inside....

Guess that's why the leading Dem contender is a retread from the 1990s?

[LondonReign2]

95. Like Republicans funding a plant group in the Democratic party

in order to advocate more Republican economic policies while occasionally throwing liberals a social bone in order to pretend they are a legitimate Democratic group and not a mouthpiece for the Kochs and big corporations? Yeah, that might work.

[passiveporcupine]

52. ^^^this^^^

The DNC does not represent the dem party right now...just a small faction of it.

[virtualobserver]

27. you see the Democratic Party as some sort of closed society

and one that should not be criticized. Who granted you
the power to decide who should be a part of this party
and what constitutes proper behavior within it?

[George II]

45. No, and no. But who granted Sanders the power to decide how the party that he never...

....had any use for should operate?

[virtualobserver]

47. he has been a committee chairman in the Democratic Caucus

His PAC donates to Democratic candidates.....Functionally, he has been a Democrat for some time.

[A Simple Game]

37. Sounds like you would like Bernie to run as an independent candidate. Something Bernie

said he wouldn't do, but if you know what's best for the Democratic party, and think Bernie and his supporters, which I am one of, are just contaminating the party maybe we can talk him into a third party run. A move which I think he could use to win the general election, how about you?

[Cal33]

70. Your gentle statements are simply admirable and most worthy of emulation.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

75. Thank you so much...I appreciate your support.

[Android3.14]

28. Real Democrats wonder the same about Hillary and her peeps

[left-of-center2012]

48. He doesn't

His attacks are not anti-Democratic. They are anti the upper 1%.

[leftofcool]

89. Isn't it amazing?

Bernie never liked the Democratic Party before.

[guillaumeb]

2. I am outraged because you are being far too reasonable.

As long as Democrats actually get out and vote, the Democratic candidate should win the election. Low turnout and an apathetic citizenry are what defeats Democrats, not the issues.

[A Simple Game]

44. There lies the difference between Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters.

Bernie supporters think the issues are the main reason to vote for a candidate, Hillary supporters don't seem to care about the issues at all.

Bernie supporters think the issues are what excites the voters and draws them to the polls. So if Hillary supporters don't think issues matter, what metrics do they use to draw voters to the polls and how do they decide their vote(s)?

[guillaumeb]

98. I cannot speak for HRC supporters.

I suspect that if you posed this as a question/topic it would generate much controversy.

I do believe that supporters of all the candidates, both on the GOP and the Democratic sides, do feel that they have a good grasp of the issues. Feelings are not the same as proof, however.

On your last question, an interesting one, remove the name Hillary and the same question could be asked generally. Millions, perhaps billions, will be spent on "issues ads" that attempt to persuade voters of what the important issues are, and which candidate is best to address the issues.

How can any side persuade those who rely on issues ads to make their choices? I would like to believe that an informed electorate will make a good choice, but history shows that the US electorate is often badly uninformed about actual issues and more obsessed with so-called character issues.

[A Simple Game]

99. Most of the issue ads say what the issue is but not the proposed solution from the candidate. n/t

[guillaumeb]

100. Or the makers of the ads frame the issue in such a way that

their particular candidate looks like the obvious answer to the problem.

[ellisonz]

4. Thank you for this public service announcement.

Democracy, yeah.

[hifiguy]

16. Sit down, shut up and vote for Her Royal Highness,

peasants.

[ellisonz]

17. ...

[hifiguy]

19. Perfect!

I am increasingly convinced that there is an appropriate Monty Python clip for everything in life.

"I order you to be quiet."

"Strange women lyin' in ponds and distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government."

[lordsummerisle]

82. Thanks... n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

91. Or don't.

Simple.

[Splinter Cell]

96. DING DING DING

This is the exactly the vibe that the Clinton machine puts off and is one of the major reasons she'll never get my vote.

[Jennifer Kay]

5. I think

that we all know we don't have to vote for one candidate and, that we can choose to vote for another. Do some people think they need permission to not vote for Hillary? Quite pathetic.

...maybe I just don't understand why exactly this needed to be said.

[Android3.14]

29. It's a useful reminder

The anger some of us are feeling towards supporters of one candidate or another need to recognize that the opposition lacks any real power over any individual.

The real challenge is finding undecideds (are there any on DU?) or persons questioning their support of a candidate (MineralMan was the last one I recall).

The rest is just tape measures and penises.

[GitRDun]

64. I'm undecided

The Sanders supporters tend to be very aggressive, usually assume I'm a Hillary supporter. cherokee progressive is the funniest.

I haven't noticed replies from the HRC folks to be unreasonable.

Maybe this is an example of being in the lead versus not, I don't know...just what I'm seeing...

[Ron Green]

73. It has something to do with the desperate situation in 2016.

Those who believe H. Clinton represents the very system whose perpetuation beyond this election cycle might well spell the end of our chance for survival (I count myself among these) are understandably more alarmed about her nomination and election than those who simply "like" her and want her to be the first female President.

[Skidmore]

90. I'm also undecided.

[Agony]

6. Yup. Only a simpleton would think anything but "It's very simple"

cuz there are just no other factors to be considered in THIS equation.

[SonderWoman]

7. Stop being sane and rational on DU:GD.

[HFRN]

8. well, THAT'S a relief

I've had one eye out my window, looking for people in brown shirts

nice to know I can relax now

[MisterP]

10. because party honchos who've stacked the deck ever-rightwards since the 80s

are suddenly gonna hold off this one time

[Moonwalk]

57. If they've stacked the deck, then why is Bernie running as a Democrat?

You can't have it both ways. Either the deck is stacked and there's no way for Bernie to win unless he's an independent, or the deck is NOT stacked and Bernie can win as a democrat.

Which is it? And, by the by, if it's really, REALLY stacked—meaning any vote you cast is meaningless....then, um, why is Bernie running at all? And why are all his supporters working to get him nominated? I mean, that's really confusing there...If the ballot boxes are that stuffed and there's no way to stop them being stuffed, then Bernie can't win no matter what and every supporter is wasting their time on this election.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. There is a need

Our country, our party, our future, our voice. We do a disservice to all if we do not let them know how we feel.

[BainsBane]

25. What do you imagine will happen?

They should demand the candidate with the highest support in the polls and who will likely receive the most delegates in the primaries step down to accommodate you? Does democracy not enter into this at any point? Or are we also just supposed to sit back and understand that the rest of us are unfit to exercise our own democratic rights because the Sanders supporters are superior to the rest of Americans?

[PowerToThePeople]

26. I do not take away your democratic rights by exercising mine. n/t

[BainsBane]

30. Answer my question

What do you imagine will happen? They will force Clinton to stop running and make someone with far less support the nominee because you want it?

[PowerToThePeople]

32. No. I will not answer your question.

BainsBane
30. Answer my question

What do you imagine will happen? They will force Clinton to stop running and make someone with far less support the nominee because you want it?

[BainsBane]

34. Well, that itself is an answer

I also find it ironic that the petition claims to be on behalf of Democrats while expressing dissatisfaction that a debate is scheduled after the date for Republicans to change their party registration for the primary.

[PowerToThePeople]

39. Just stop it.

You are acting like a bully.

[Indepatriot]

67. By not answering BBs question you are actually

attacking HRC and the Democratic Party!!! And, for that matter democracy in general! Now answer the question or admit that you hate America!!!

[PowerToThePeople]

69. :-)

[A Simple Game]

51. A perfect response. One which seems to be lost on many who think it is fine if they limit your

democratic rights if it allows their side to win. Much if not most of DU is a good example of just that. Always aimed from the right towards the left it seems.

Too many conservatives on DU lately, way too many.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. I've helpfully bolded the parts of your post

Last edited Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

that address things that I don't see referred to, at all, in the post you're responding to:

"They should demand the candidate with the highest support in the polls and who will likely receive the most delegates in the primaries step down to accommodate you? Does democracy not enter into this at any point? Or are we also just supposed to sit back and understand that the rest of us are unfit to exercise our own democratic rights because the Sanders supporters are superior to the rest of Americans?"

Interesting. Seems like your entire post was a straw person.

[cyberswede]

59. What will happen? TPTB of the party will know how people feel.

There's no harm in that.

[Maedhros]

12. Not for lack of trying, though. [n/t]

[phantom power]

13. Is there a down side to writing letters to an organization to express an opinion?

I mean, the DNC clearly wields influence. Is it wrong to tell them how you would prefer them to wield that influence?

[840high]

35. Absolutely not. I write

letters to let people know how I feel.

[cyberswede]

60. Good post. nt

[Geronimoe]

14. You can cast your vote

but will it be counted?

[floriduck]

15. Okay but I write

To Wasserman-Schultz telling her I am disappointed in the limited debate schedule because she can change that if she weren't stuck on Hillary.

[HappyMe]

18. lol!

Well, I think I will write a letter now.

[shenmue]

20. Stop being reasonable

I hate that.

[TBF]

22. lol

Like we care whether Debbie or the DNC wants to receive the letters. But thanks for your "permission" to vote how we see fit. I don't think we'll have a problem with exercising that right but your concern is touching.

[Wisc Progressive]

23. Well said, thanks for saying it in a way that subtly tells us to avoid pie fights in the comments

A primary should be about each of our choice for the best candidate and not about who the media is telling us is going to win.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

31. Is somebody claiming otherwise, or do you just like to type?

You're right about it being very simple. It's so simple that you imparted knowledge to exactly no one--EVERYONE already knew this.

[cyberswede]

63. LOL. Yep. nt

[Autumn]

33. He is the best candidate and I plan on voting for him. We have one voice and that is our vote.

[Raine1967]

36. Well said. One thing I am very interested in: the states after Super Tuesday.

I have seen a few posts here saying that because their state is after March first their vote does't count.

I took a look and the amount of undeclared primary date states is very interesting. NY is among them.

States voting on Super Tuesday (March first) :

Alabama
Arkansas
Colorado caucuses
Georgia
Massachusetts
Minnesota caucuses
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Texas
Vermont
Virginia


States after this ST:

March
Saturday, March 5
Louisiana
Nebraska (Dem caucus)

Tuesday, March 8
Hawaii caucus (GOP)
Mississippi
Michigan

Sunday, March 13
Puerto Rico (GOP)

Tuesday, March 15
Ohio
Florida
Illinois
Missouri

Tuesday, March 22
Arizona
Utah

Saturday, March 26
Hawaii caucus (Dems)


April
Tuesday, April 5
Wisconsin

Tuesday, April 26
Connecticut
Delaware
Maryland
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island

May
Tuesday, May 3
Indiana

Tuesday, May 10
Nebraska (GOP primary)
West Virginia

Tuesday, May 17
Kentucky
Oregon
June

June
Sunday, June 5
Puerto Rico (Dem)

Tuesday, June 7
California
Montana
New Jersey
New Mexico
South Dakota

Tuesday, June 14
Washington, DC

States with no firm dates:
(Some states may be listed with tentative dates)
New York
North Dakota
Utah
Colorado
Idaho
Kansas
Maine
Washington
Wyoming

http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/#SZoopQX3eQEQ8KHf.99

I am not really sure I am convinced the Super Tuesday if going to be the tell this election cycle, so in all honesty, I hope everyone gets out to vote in their primaries/caucuses!

[BainsBane]

40. The notion that Super Tuesday is determinative

hinges on the idea that Clinton will run the table and wrap the nomination up early. That's a rather odd concession for supporters of another candidate. As you note, a competitive primary depends on the process lasting much longer.

[BainsBane]

38. I think it ultimately is meaningless

without any coherent argument. One of it's key points of protest is that the DNC is not facilitating more Republicans voting in Democratic primaries. Seems to me they know they've thrown away the votes of key Democratic constituencies. Then they exclaim anger that the DNC is including Bernie Sanders in its mailings, as though they don't consider him to be part of the party, and they imagine donors are too stupid to know where their donations actually go.

[ghostsinthemachine]

41. Thanks, I won't. (NT)

[hrmjustin]

42. Well said!

[aikoaiko]

53. "There is really no need to write letters to the DNC or DWS" -- that's funny,

I'm sure you would like people to stop doing that.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. The full sentence:

There really is no need to write letters to the DNC or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz telling them that you won't vote for Hillary.

[aikoaiko]

56. Of course, because some things shouldn't be said

[shireen]

54. This OP should be pinned.

[Fearless]

58. You're suggesting that supporting Bernie is harmful. I disagree.

[Number23]

61. I don't know what's funnier. That this OP was needed or the people literally breaking into a sweat

pretending that it's controversial. Or that you saying "if you want to vote for Bernie, then vote for Bernie" is the exact same thing as saying "vote for her royal highness" or "suggesting" that voting for Sanders is harmul.

[cyberswede]

65. I submit this post wasn't actually needed. nt

[Number23]

66. Judging by the replies, maybe it actually was.

[cyberswede]

68. Still no.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=528325

[Number23]

71. If you disagree, who cares? So many here do nothing but gun for fights over nothing

Last edited Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I think the OP was needed. You don't.

I'm sure your link will solve this argument forever but since I'm not clicking it, I guess I'll just have to stick with my own opinion about something. How horrible of me.

[cyberswede]

72. I would never think anyone sticking with their own opinion is horrible.

Why would you think that...unless you think it's horrible of me to have mine?

[Number23]

74. I don't care what your opinion of this OP is. You started this "discussion" I didn't

[cyberswede]

76. I wonder why you replied to me, then.

And I care about your opinion, even if we disagree.

[Number23]

78. I'm just curious... how long will you keep this up?

I am so damn tired of this level of discourse on DU. I say something, somebody comes flying out of nowhere to disagree as if their disagreement means more than my opinion and then keeps it going for reasons that only they know or care about.

This is one of the many reasons this forum is a shell of its former self.

[cyberswede]

80. At no point did I claim that my disagreement means more than your opinion.

As for my "level of discourse" making you tired, I provided a link (to another post in this thread) that describes my reason for disagreeing, but you declined to click it, and now you complain that I'm replying "for reasons only {I} know or care about." That dismissal (not clicking on my link), sort of gives the impression you might feel your opinion means more than my disagreement.

I doubt everyone agreed with you about everything back before DU was a shell of its former self.

[Number23]

83. If I tell you I don't care then why would you be surprised that I didn't click your link?

I am GENUINELY interested to see how long you will keep this idiotic "conversation" going.

I'm not giving you the impression that I feel my opinion means more than your disagreement. I am telling you TO YOUR FACE that I don't care that you disagree with this OP.

That is in no way the same thing. It has no bearing on anything that you disagree with this OP though I suspect that Cali_Dem is pretty happy that you think that arguing over the fact that someone doesn't care about your opinion is keeping his OP kicked.

[cyberswede]

86. Not sure I understand

If I disagree with you, I'm "flying out of nowhere to disagree as if {my} disagreement means more than {yours}", yet you also don't care that I disagree.

As for how long I'll keep this idiotic "conversation" going, I don't know.

[DCBob]

62. Yeah.. they are desperate.

They know their only hope to bring Hillary down.

[Cha]

77. Oh, they just want to make a big show of it.. stomp their feet and let everyone know

they won't vote for Hillary.

BFD.

[Cal33]

85. I am for Bernie, but if he should lose to Hillary, I would vote for Hillary against any Republican

in the General Election. I've said this several times over the past months, and probably will have occasion to say the
same thing several times more.

I'm sure if Hillary were to become the Democratic nominee, Bernie would ask his backers to back her in the
General Election. He is too big a man to carry a grudge, especially one that would only help to serve the
interests of the Republicans!!

And there are many more like me. It's just that we don't make as much noise.

[cyberswede]

79. "There really is no need to write letters to the DNC or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz..."

For that matter, there really is no need to post on message boards, either. But here we are.

None of it really makes a difference, except for our individual votes.

[NanceGreggs]

81. Sadly, but not at all surprisingly ...

... any call for civility, mutual respect, cooperation - or even keeping our political disagreements in perspective - is met with vitriol. And you can plainly see that by the replies here.

It's blatantly obvious that there are certain posters whose only purpose in being here is to be disruptive, nasty, and ignorant in the extreme while launching personal attacks, and engaging in name-calling in lieu of honest discussion or political debate.

Trying to reason with such people is pointless. They were made welcome on this site despite their obvious intent to be divisive - many of them literally from the day they joined - and their behaviour is now the norm, rather than the exception.

I remember when DU was a political discussion board for Democrats and like-minded people. Now it's just another internet space where actual discussion is not only impossible, but disparaged as an attempt to coerce people into the abominable practice of actually thinking about and expressing their political viewpoints instead of simply screaming invectives at those who seeing things differently than they do.

As I've said before, DU was once about Democrats with a diversity of opinions. It is now about Sharks and Jets fighting over who the decaying local schoolyard belongs to.

[Number23]

84. + a million. And so fucking determined to argue about nothing it's insane

any call for civility, mutual respect, cooperation - or even keeping our political disagreements in perspective - is met with vitriol.

I said the same thing and for some reason, that simple point got launched into easily one of the most pointless "discussions" I've ever had with anyone on this site. Apparently even the fact that I don't care about someone's opinion is something that needs to be argued about!!!

I never even read the front page of DU anymore. I go straight to the AA forum or My Posts and have for the last 6 months or so. But I have no doubt that I can guess what's all on the front page. And then when you see post after post after post about how things are stacking up with the polling, you can see why there's so much desperation to drown out and argue down all opposing opinions.

[NanceGreggs]

87. As I said in another thread ...

... when an OP that consists solely of "I saw a Bernie bumper-sticker on a car today" winds up on the Greatest Page with 68 recs, you know you're not dealing with people interested in political reality.

I hardly even read this site anymore - if I want to hear about what Ann Coulter says or what the latest FOX-News polls show, I can go directly to RW sites and not have to wade through comments by trolls pretending to be Democrats in order to post here.

You can't argue with people who think "Bernie calling for" money out of politics, single-payer healthcare, or free college education means he could actually accomplish any of those things if elected. They believe what they believe, and have no regard for RL reality.

I don't mind people building castles in the air. What I DO mind is them trying to sell me a condo in that castle, and telling me I'm not a "real Democrat" if I refuse to invest in real estate that doesn't even exist.

[MoveIt]

94. "Any call for civility"

Is that what the OP is?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

88. "no need to write letters to the DNC or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz"

Right.

Use email to avoid paper and thus save a tree.

[Fairgo]

92. Good advice!

It's good to be eco-friendly.

[Herman4747]

93. No, fear of a Republican Presidency is forcing me to...

If you think Bernie Sanders is the best candidate, please cast your vote for him.

I'm not interested in the "best" candidate -- I vote for the candidate most likely to win!!

I've lived through FAR TOO MANY DAMN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENCIES!

[ljm2002]

97. Conversely...

...no one needs your permission to write to Debbie Wasserman-Schultz telling her anything they want to tell her regarding our primary.

Believe it or not, people can express their opinions, whether on DU, or as a letter-to-the-editor, or as a letter-to-the-DNC / DWS, and still vote! The activities are not mutually exclusive.

Nobody is forcing you to express yourself here at DU either, nor arguing that your doing so means you aren't intending to vote in the primary.

IOW: content-free OP.

[840high]

101. Correct. I have no intention

of voting for Hillary. EVER.