Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:22 PM Sep 2015

Sanders fires back at Clinton's subtle dig

"I think you can come with your own ideas and you can wave your arms and give a speech,” Clinton told NBC's Andrea Mitchell, referring to both Sanders and Donald Trump. "But are you connecting with and really hearing what people are either saying to you or wishing that you would say to them?”

...

“Bernie is doing more than attracting large crowds,” the spokesman said. “He has a concrete set of proposals to take on the billionaire class and rebuild the disappearing middle class. That’s what people are responding to.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/252809-sanders-fires-back-at-clinton-over-subtle-dig

100 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sanders fires back at Clinton's subtle dig (Original Post) AgingAmerican Sep 2015 OP
Is he just not choosing to release these concrete proposals? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #1
Hillary wants a fight. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #2
oh yeah...sure she does! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #7
She's running for president Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #17
Yeah...you may be right....but she doesn't need to do it right now... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #18
yawn roguevalley Sep 2015 #22
Let me let Rachel Maddow sum it up for you... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #24
See I thought this was about Trump... msrizzo Sep 2015 #39
What she is saying is....she doesn't have to respond to any of them..... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #41
Just wait until she starts losing jfern Sep 2015 #37
But I thought you guys said Hillary is afraid of Bernie? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #8
We all speak as one? Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #13
Well, there WAS a giant metal cube out in my back yard this morning, and when I opened the sliding PatrickforO Sep 2015 #38
you must have a big back yard virtualobserver Sep 2015 #64
Yeah, pretty big. Funny, I used to think that I wanted a big yard, until PatrickforO Sep 2015 #65
Yeah,... yard maintenance... increased likelihood of aliens or DLCers choosing it as a landing site. virtualobserver Sep 2015 #71
I am Locutus of the Borg. PatrickforO Sep 2015 #72
we are lucky to have you on our side virtualobserver Sep 2015 #73
Don't fight it. Just change your name to merrily Sep 2015 #83
They cannot make up their minds on why they despise her today.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #25
I have never waivered on why I think H. Clinton is good for the 1% and bad for the 99%. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #44
You have no intention of having a "discussion"... Agschmid Sep 2015 #46
They don't bother because they are embarassed to try to defend her stands. I will be glad rhett o rick Sep 2015 #47
They aren't embarrassed. Agschmid Sep 2015 #56
They are embarassed because Clinton's stands on issues are for profits for her 1% rhett o rick Sep 2015 #58
And you wonder why people won't engage in "discussion" with you... Agschmid Sep 2015 #62
I've been asking a few supporters here.. teach me everything Sep 2015 #68
You do know what paraphrasing means don't you? A Simple Game Sep 2015 #87
Here is her statement in full peacebird Sep 2015 #51
The Google Machine is your friend. hifiguy Sep 2015 #3
Yet very few actual policy proposals. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #6
Jebus wept. hifiguy Sep 2015 #9
Simply not true. The Google will help you if you really wanted the truth. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #14
Hell, you have to jump through hoops just to get ON Hillary's Fawke Em Sep 2015 #99
Read the link posted evlbstrd Sep 2015 #23
What's missing is how he plans to get those through a Congress that refuses to endorse BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #78
You mean exactly like Clinton's drug addition plan? jeff47 Sep 2015 #85
Clinton's drug addition plan? What's that? eom BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #88
So...4 days ago is now ancient history? jeff47 Sep 2015 #90
Words matter, Mister Sarcasm. There's a difference between "addition" and "addiction". BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #92
So you're going to pretend to be utterly confounded by an erroneous autocorrect. jeff47 Sep 2015 #93
No more than you're going to dance around admitting you used the wrong word. BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #96
What part of "erroneous autocorrect" is dancing around? jeff47 Sep 2015 #97
The part that you danced around owning up to it and instead decided to act insulted. Real mature. BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #98
Bernie has said electing him is not enough. Qutzupalotl Sep 2015 #86
I'm happy to read that he's finally facing political realities. But he underestimates the BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #89
Finally? He's been saying it the entire campaign. jeff47 Sep 2015 #91
What a bunch of crock. But why am I surprised? BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #94
Instead of a giant volume of tangential information and inference jeff47 Sep 2015 #95
Political reality. As I've mentioned before in my post - posts that you appear to ignore. BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #100
I love lists... ChimpersMcSmirkers Sep 2015 #48
His candidacy is a test for America, and we may yet fail it. Ron Green Sep 2015 #54
Nah... ChimpersMcSmirkers Sep 2015 #60
OK, it's about THIS YEAR. Ron Green Sep 2015 #70
That is so WRONG. senz Sep 2015 #61
I wouldn't use that pic if I were you. hifiguy Sep 2015 #63
Blind eye see's all AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #5
no surf visible in that video tho msongs Sep 2015 #11
"Blind eye see's all" was a Butthole Surfers film AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #15
Look in GD: P. There are lots of threads explaining where Sen Sanders stands. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #10
We know where he stands, but... SonderWoman Sep 2015 #16
Where would one find these policy papers? nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #20
funny how Sonder left you hanging here. n/t retrowire Sep 2015 #30
I was waiting. I thought maybe the sky would open, the light will come down, Autumn Sep 2015 #84
Regarding Keystone: "When I'm president I'll answer that question" arcane1 Sep 2015 #35
On college where Sen Sanders says that the wealthy should share the burdon of sending rhett o rick Sep 2015 #40
Bambam!!!! 840high Sep 2015 #74
Some comments sound like wishful thinking. senz Sep 2015 #66
Bernie has actual legislation, not dreams. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #31
Does she make it clear that she supports fracking and the TPP and the XL Pipeline? All that rhett o rick Sep 2015 #32
Please point me to a cranked out Hillary white paper. I've seen Martins but Hillary's? Autumn Sep 2015 #34
I'm on pins and needles to read one of Hillary's policy papers. Still waiting for you Autumn Sep 2015 #82
Not just the media. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #42
He's been releasing concrete proposals left and right. senz Sep 2015 #67
you can wave your arms and give a speech left-of-center2012 Sep 2015 #4
Yes...some certainly will! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #12
Clinton waves her arms and gets applause from the Goldman-Sachs crowd rhett o rick Sep 2015 #21
+ 1000 orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #28
I find it fascinating that Hillary support posts trend around the 20-30 rec mark, and rarely higher. Bubzer Sep 2015 #29
Actually, she claps too much. Looks like she's aplauding herself. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #33
Andrea Mitchell "got" to interview her...... glinda Sep 2015 #49
And many are hoping they will. BlueCaliDem Sep 2015 #77
Hate to tell them....Bernie is a lover not a fighter VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #79
Such a "subtle dig" no one seems to understand what the dig is!??? Brilliant! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #19
Everyone understands AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #26
Here it is in context... peacebird Sep 2015 #50
Does Sanders wave his arms around a lot more than other folks?? What a remarkable tempest in a teapot this is! Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #80
Everyone understands. 840high Sep 2015 #75
Tempest, meet teapot. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #81
She Waves and by her own admission say's little without gauging her audience and their response, Her orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #27
"you can wave your arms and give a speech,"<But it takes real talent to get paid $200,000 a page for jtuck004 Sep 2015 #36
to which she gave to charity! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2015 #43
Incorrect Geronimoe Sep 2015 #53
Which Charity? HappyPlace Sep 2015 #57
Hahaha!!! 840high Sep 2015 #76
I am perplexed ejbr Sep 2015 #45
Here is what she said peacebird Sep 2015 #52
I agree with the media blackout, however ejbr Sep 2015 #55
bernie doesn't wave his arms BlueStateLib Sep 2015 #59
True, but it might fit with the "grumpy rumpled old guy" meme so popular with some. senz Sep 2015 #69
 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
1. Is he just not choosing to release these concrete proposals?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:28 PM
Sep 2015

And the media is hilarious with their "fires back" narrative. Hillary and Bernie are running classy campaigns, but the media wants a fight.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
2. Hillary wants a fight.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:32 PM
Sep 2015

She needs a distraction and she needs to look tough. Expect her campaign to ratchet it up.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
7. oh yeah...sure she does!
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:39 PM
Sep 2015

that is always helpful when woman runs for office! Pretty much the female version of the proverbial "Angry Black man". Watch the indignation on this thread about that "subtle dig" (even by the OP writers standards apparently). Suddenly that turns into she is cruising for a fight! Hyperbolic nonsense. As if Bernie has not said anything at all about her campaign yet! But but but...no one accused Bernie of "just wanting to start a fight" when it happened!

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
17. She's running for president
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:44 PM
Sep 2015

she will have to sling mud at some point. She is a skillful politician. Ultimately she will not have any need for a classy campaign, no one will and whoever tries to remain classy will lose.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
18. Yeah...you may be right....but she doesn't need to do it right now...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:48 PM
Sep 2015

You are damned right she is a skilled politician......that is why she ISN'T playing into YOUR hands. You are not a supporter....you do not want her to pick fights because it would be good for HER! You are not her best advisor dude...just sayin'!

What YOU want her to do....is NOT in her best interests....lest you think no one notices that!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
24. Let me let Rachel Maddow sum it up for you...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:52 PM
Sep 2015

Paraphrasing Clinton’s point, Maddow said, “Listen, I talk like a president, I talk like somebody at the highest levels of government because I have operated at the highest levels of government. The reason I don’t rail and insult people and move people in an emotional way is because I’m speaking precisely and that should be seen as feature, not a bug.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-defends-hillary-on-authenticity-issue-she-talks-like-a-president/ via Mediaite

msrizzo

(796 posts)
39. See I thought this was about Trump...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:34 PM
Sep 2015

He's the one that goes around insulting people. And he does all those dumb little things with his hand. And he's the one that gets accused of not being presidential.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
41. What she is saying is....she doesn't have to respond to any of them.....
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:36 PM
Sep 2015

she is running her own race....pacing herself....she is paying no attention to any of their bluster!

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
8. But I thought you guys said Hillary is afraid of Bernie?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:39 PM
Sep 2015

Now you're saying she wants a fight? Do you have any proof to back that statement up? Seems like they're both doing their own thing and keeping it classy.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
13. We all speak as one?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:41 PM
Sep 2015

We are Borg? I didn't know I said Hillary is afraid of Bernie. I must be getting old or spending too much time on DU. I don't recall saying that.

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
38. Well, there WAS a giant metal cube out in my back yard this morning, and when I opened the sliding
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:33 PM
Sep 2015

door, I heard it say, "Resistance is futile!"

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
65. Yeah, pretty big. Funny, I used to think that I wanted a big yard, until
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:31 PM
Sep 2015

I bought a house that has one...

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
71. Yeah,... yard maintenance... increased likelihood of aliens or DLCers choosing it as a landing site.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:52 PM
Sep 2015

At least you haven't been assimilated, right? I haven't noticed a change in tone of your posts.

PatrickforO

(14,574 posts)
72. I am Locutus of the Borg.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 12:06 AM
Sep 2015

Sent here to negotiate the defeat of oligarchy and institution of social democracy in America!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
83. Don't fight it. Just change your name to
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:40 AM
Sep 2015

You Guys and I'll change mine to Your Friends.

That should cover most of the posts

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
25. They cannot make up their minds on why they despise her today....
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:55 PM
Sep 2015

they change that like dust in the wind!

But here is what Rachel Maddow says...

Paraphrasing Clinton’s point, Maddow said, “Listen, I talk like a president, I talk like somebody at the highest levels of government because I have operated at the highest levels of government. The reason I don’t rail and insult people and move people in an emotional way is because I’m speaking precisely and that should be seen as feature, not a bug.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-defends-hillary-on-authenticity-issue-she-talks-like-a-president/ via Mediaite

Much to their disappointment...she is running HER race...pacing herself.....she is very very smart. And she has one of the best political strategists of all time are her side! (Not to mention MOST of Barack Obama's election team!).

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
44. I have never waivered on why I think H. Clinton is good for the 1% and bad for the 99%.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:43 PM
Sep 2015

I have posted OP after OP here discussing issues but never get more than one Clinton supporter to enter the discussion.

The 99% paid with their lives, their wounds, their PTSD's, and their pocketbooks because of the Iraq War. A decision that she should be held accountable for. And all the while the 99% were suffering, the 1% were profiting. H. Clinton makes no bones about her close connections with the 1% (her and her husband with over $100,000,000 wealth are in the 1%) and her connections with Wall Street banksters that have been looting the 99% for decades.

We desperately need a change from the Oligarch control and their puppets.

And another thing, Sen Sanders is building a grassroots campaign with money from small donations. The epitome of a democracy and the foundation of the Democratic Party. H. Clinton is using special interest money to try to buy the WH. Not very democratic nor Democratic.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
47. They don't bother because they are embarassed to try to defend her stands. I will be glad
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:07 PM
Sep 2015

to have a discussion about the dangers of fracking that her supporters apparently love but are afraid to step forward and defend.

Fracking is ruining billions of gallons of drinking water. But it makes big profits for oil companies and I guess (have to guess because none of Clinton's supporters will discuss) that profits of oil companies are more important than drinking water for the peons.

Clinton supporters, other than a couple, do not speak to issues.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
56. They aren't embarrassed.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:40 PM
Sep 2015

People support candidates it doesn't always make sense why they do it but they certainly have that choice... and honestly don't owe anyone an explanation why.

It's their vote, their choice.

A whole heck of a lot of people on DU aren't discussing issues, and that's true on both sides.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
58. They are embarassed because Clinton's stands on issues are for profits for her 1%
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:00 PM
Sep 2015

friends. Why would people support her if they were embarrassed to stick up for her stands?

 
68. I've been asking a few supporters here..
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:35 PM
Sep 2015

Many will call me sexist if I'm questioning Clinton. I'm just trying to learn what made them interested in Clinton.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
87. You do know what paraphrasing means don't you?
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 07:15 PM
Sep 2015

It means Rachel was more or less repeating Hillary's own words and not an endorsement.

If Hillary had told herself that, and listened, back in '08 she may even have been President today. Then we would have candidate Obama against candidate Bernie today. But she had to get down into the dirt instead and the public turned against her. I bet she gets back down there again, this was probably just a feeler to see how it went. I don't think she can help herself.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
51. Here is her statement in full
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:21 PM
Sep 2015

But asked about why voters find Biden and challenger Bernie Sanders more authentic than Clinton, the former secretary of state seemed to take subtle dig at Sanders. "I started out listening because I think you can come with your own ideas and you can wave your arms and give a speech, but at the end of the day, are you connecting with and really hearing?" she said.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
3. The Google Machine is your friend.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:32 PM
Sep 2015

Lots of issues, lots of details.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

BERNIE SANDERS
On the Issues
The American people must make a fundamental decision. Do we continue the 40-year decline of our middle class and the growing gap between the very rich and everyone else, or do we fight for a progressive economic agenda that creates jobs, raises wages, protects the environment and provides health care for all? Are we prepared to take on the enormous economic and political power of the billionaire class, or do we continue to slide into economic and political oligarchy? These are the most important questions of our time, and how we answer them will determine the future of our country.

INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY
GETTING BIG MONEY OUT OF POLITICS
CREATING DECENT PAYING JOBS
RACIAL JUSTICE
FIGHTING FOR WOMEN’S RIGHTS
A FAIR AND HUMANE IMMIGRATION POLICY
A LIVING WAGE
REAL FAMILY VALUES
CLIMATE CHANGE & ENVIRONMENT
REFORMING WALL STREET

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
6. Yet very few actual policy proposals.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:37 PM
Sep 2015

Just some "key actions" he's done in the past, and very few key actions at that. Looking for policy wonk papers.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
14. Simply not true. The Google will help you if you really wanted the truth.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:42 PM
Sep 2015

Clinton is the one that seems to be hiding from stating where she stands and from debates.

Too bad about her dig at Sanders. His response was classy.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
99. Hell, you have to jump through hoops just to get ON Hillary's
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 02:31 PM
Sep 2015

website to read her positions.

First, it paywalls you to put in your email address to even go in. If you figure out the right place to click to get passed that one, then it pops up and asks you to donate.

Look, I'm all for gathering emails and asking folks to donate, but it shouldn't be in lieu of reading her policy positions (which aren't any more or less detailed than Sanders' page. Most voters aren't policy wonks and just want a general overview). Why can't one just get on her website?

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
78. What's missing is how he plans to get those through a Congress that refuses to endorse
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 01:02 AM
Sep 2015

him, thereby, refusing to work with him.

All those feel-good bullet-points will need congressional help, but they will never materialize with a Congress full of obstructionist Republicans and Democrats Bernie Sanders has pretty much disrespected in this 25 years.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
85. You mean exactly like Clinton's drug addition plan?
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 06:10 PM
Sep 2015

No pay for, no Congressional strategy. So do you think it's crap too?

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
92. Words matter, Mister Sarcasm. There's a difference between "addition" and "addiction".
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 01:00 PM
Sep 2015

How about you remember that before getting upset when someone points out your errors? That would be the more mature thing to do. So, me, bewildered? Nah. I'm not planning on voting for Bernie Sanders so my head's on pretty straight.

And, again, must I remind you that Hillary Clinton enjoys the endorsement of the vast majority of congressional Democrats while Bernie Sanders enjoys NONE? ZERO. ZILCH. If anyone can get that or any plan through that needs congressional votes, it will be Hillary Clinton. Bernie can't even get a single Democrat in Congress to say they support him. But you keep "feeling the Bern" if that helps you sleep at night.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
93. So you're going to pretend to be utterly confounded by an erroneous autocorrect.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 01:40 PM
Sep 2015


And, again, must I remind you that Hillary Clinton enjoys the endorsement of the vast majority of congressional Democrats

Hey, who's got the majority in Congress? And who's going to have the majority in the House until at least 2022 thanks to gerrymandering and DLC midterm strategy?

It isn't the Democrats.

Also, who's managed to pass more amendments and bills through this Congress than any other Democrat? The one utterly controlled by Republicans? Why, it's Sanders.

Wonder if he can get bills through Congress.....

If anyone can get that or any plan through that needs congressional votes, it will be Hillary Clinton.

Great. Where is it?

Also, where does that $10B in spending come from? 'Cause she kinda skipped over that. Since "it's not paid for" was critical for attacking Sanders (despite him actually explaining how he'd pay for it), then clearly Clinton wouldn't repeat the same mistake and come out with a plan that isn't paid for.

Bernie can't even get a single Democrat in Congress to say they support him.

Clinton's notorious for having an "enemies list". Sanders is notorious for forgiving damn near anything. What's the incentive to endorse Sanders now? He'll forgive when you endorse later. She won't.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
96. No more than you're going to dance around admitting you used the wrong word.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 02:52 PM
Sep 2015
Hey, who's got the majority in Congress?

Hey, who got bills through despite that? That's right. Obama. And he doesn't even have the clout that the Clintons do among Democrats. But he's a helluva lot more politically savvy than Bernie Sanders.

Also, who's managed to pass more amendments and bills through this Congress than any other Democrat?

How many bills has he sponsored? Not co-sponsored, but sponsored. 300. And of that number, how many became law? THREE - two of which were renaming post offices. Wow. Big wow.

Co-sponsoring is easy-breezy. Adding amendments, no big deal. Sponsoring bills and finding co-sponsors to boost the likelihood of them passing, however, is where we separate the wheat from the chaff. Sanders has been in Congress for, what? Twenty-FIVE years? His legislative accomplishments over 25 years are incredibly poor. Well, he is a consistent voter against anything that has to do with sensible gun laws, like the the Brady Bill, for example.

Great. Where is it?

DUH. She ain't president yet. Slipped your mind?

Clinton's notorious for having an "enemies list". Sanders is notorious for forgiving damn near anything.

Yes, she is. She's a fighter, and in this political climate, that's what we need: a fighter not a lover. Thanks for pointing that out and for underscoring that Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, will "get'r done" i order to move this country forward. Much appreciated.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
97. What part of "erroneous autocorrect" is dancing around?
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 03:29 PM
Sep 2015
Hey, who got bills through despite that? That's right. Obama. And he doesn't even have the clout that the Clintons do among Democrats. But he's a helluva lot more politically savvy than Bernie Sanders.

Actually, Sanders got more through Congress than either Obama or Clinton. Congress.gov can be handy.

Now, he has the advantage of being on the veteran's affairs committee, so he is pushing bills that help veterans, which Republicans generally like. But he still got more through.

How many bills has he sponsored? Not co-sponsored, but sponsored. 300. And of that number, how many became law? THREE - two of which were renaming post offices. Wow. Big wow.

And what's the number for Clinton?

Adding amendments, no big deal.

Actually, it is a big deal, because you're usurping someone else's bill.

DUH. She ain't president yet. Slipped your mind?

So she doesn't have to explain how she pays for it until after the election?

Why does that standard not apply to anyone other than Clinton?

Yes, she is. She's a fighter, and in this political climate, that's what we need: a fighter not a lover.

Except the people on her enemies list are not Republicans. So she's fighting her own party for not being sufficiently loyal to Clinton. Just ask Claire McCaskill. Her re-election bid was famously snubbed by the Clintons. Which is why McCaskill was one of the first dogwhistles. Gotta get back on Clinton's good side or she'll be snubbed again.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
98. The part that you danced around owning up to it and instead decided to act insulted. Real mature.
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 01:51 PM
Sep 2015
Actually, Sanders got more through Congress than either Obama or Clinton. Congress.gov can be handy.

I already addressed that in my previous post, but you choose to ignore it. Fine. But sponsoring 300 bills with only having THREE pass into law - of which TWO were renaming post offices and one was on the coattails of John McCain - makes for a POOR legislative record for twenty-five years, to me and any other reasonable American.

And what's the number for Clinton?

I asked first. By the way, you're hopefully keeping in mind that Hillary Clinton was in Congress for only eight years. Bernie Sanders has been in Congress three times longer.

Actually, it is a big deal, because you're usurping someone else's bill.

Really? His amendment to the health care reform bill usurped it? On what planet? Get real, jeff.

So she doesn't have to explain how she pays for it until after the election?

Why does that standard not apply to anyone other than Clinton?

But it does. Did Sanders explain how he was going to pay for the $15 minimum wage he's touting? Or how he's planning on funding free college for everyone? And if so, how many allies does he have in Congress in order to get his ambitious agenda through and get the House to pay for it? You said yourself, he's a "forgiver" not a fighter. Well, that means NOTHING he wants will get through and his supporters will get NOTHING but hot speeches and fists slamming on lecterns. Not good enough for me.

Except the people on her enemies list are not Republicans.

Uh, yah. They are. But you know that.

Which is why McCaskill was one of the first dogwhistles. Gotta get back on Clinton's good side or she'll be snubbed again.

I get it. You don't care for strong women. Well, I DO. And that's why, should Joe Biden not enter the race, I'll cast my vote and my group will cast their vote for Hillary Clinton as our second choice.

Qutzupalotl

(14,311 posts)
86. Bernie has said electing him is not enough.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 06:52 PM
Sep 2015

As he keeps saying, we need a movement of people to keep up pressure on congress to do what we want. That means we all have to do our part, calling, writing and faxing our congress critters. They do respond when their constituents are overwhelmingly on one side.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
89. I'm happy to read that he's finally facing political realities. But he underestimates the
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 12:51 AM
Sep 2015

entrenched recalcitrance of Congress-members if he thinks calling, faxing, and writing ones congresscritterwill make a difference. It didn't for President Obama when he called to his millions of supporters to contact their congresscritter during the ACA debate and when he called for us to contact Congress to fix the recently gutted Voting Rights Act. Nothing happened.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
91. Finally? He's been saying it the entire campaign.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 10:48 AM
Sep 2015
It didn't for President Obama when he called to his millions of supporters to contact their congresscritter during the ACA debate and when he called for us to contact Congress to fix the recently gutted Voting Rights Act. Nothing happened

Yep. Obama made a large blunder.

Obama had a giant grassroots organization. Ready and waiting to work for him. And then he hired Rham, who promptly turned away from it and started playing the "insider" game. While calling the grassroots "fucking retarded".

With nothing to do, the neglect and insults caused the "army" to evaporate instead of being a source of power.

Will the same happen with Sanders? Maybe. Maybe not. That history has not been written yet.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
94. What a bunch of crock. But why am I surprised?
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 02:21 PM
Sep 2015
Yep. Obama made a large blunder.

Yep. That's what Republicans say. All. The. Time.

But having won both his elections with over 51% of the vote - something not done since FDR, may I remind you - well, that statement flies in the face of figures, don't it? He won re-election with 51.1% of the popular vote, even though he lost the White vote to Romney. Also, that horrible Rahm Emmanuel BEAT the Left's Jesus "Chuy" Garcia. BIG. So the majority of Americans, even in Chicago, don't think either man has done all too badly. Figures don't lie, jeff. Liars figure.

While calling the grassroots "fucking retarded".

I'm sorry you got your fee-fees hurt, but that's your fault, not Rahm's. You listened to Jane Hamsher rather than did a little research for yourself, and now you base your anger on that inaccurate and horribly written article?? Really??

Rahm didn't call the grassroots on the Left "fucking retarded". That's what Firedogbagger, Jane Hamsher (no friend to the liberal movement, may I add) headlined her article with (so in essence, that's what she did) - and that is horrible reporting, akin to Fox "News" b.s. style reporting. Even in the article itself it shows that she had taken it totally out of context, but she knew that.

Here's what he said:
The friction was laid bare in August when Mr. Emanuel showed up at a weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides. Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul.

"F—ing retarded," Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.

NO WHERE did he call the attendees "fucking retards". That's what Jane "I <3 Palin and Norquist" Hamsher made of it. So you're wrong.

For clarity, Rahm was referring to the attendees' (liberal groups) plan (verbalized at that August 2009 meeting) to air ads against Blue Dog Dems in Red States and called that MOVE fucking retarded. it didn't stop them. And after the 2010 midterm elections, he was proven correct.

In 2010, Republicans swept, en masse, into power and took control of the U.S. House. Now they're impossible to purge, thanks to immediate Republican redistricting in those States (2010 was a census year, after all). Sure. We "purified" the Democratic Party and purged those dastardly Blue Dogs, but did we get more Liberals in their places? No. We lost the U.S. House to Teabagger Republicans who are, BY FAR, worse than those horrible Blue Dog Dems. Now, five years later, after the gutting of the VRA (which will need a House to reinstate), the ruling in favor of Citizens United v FEC, don't you agree with Rahm that that move was fucking retarded - by any Liberal's standard?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
95. Instead of a giant volume of tangential information and inference
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 02:35 PM
Sep 2015

All you had to do was look at OFA before and after Obama's election.

Before? Giant group full of people excited to work for Obama.

Obama elected. Never asks OFA for any more help. OFA withers away to a PAC with little influence.

NO WHERE did he call the attendees "fucking retards". That's what Jane "I <3 Palin and Norquist" Hamsher made of it. So you're wrong.

It encapsulates his opinion about grassroots activists in two short words. Not a literal statement.

In 2010, Republicans swept, en masse, into power and took control of the U.S. House. Now they're impossible to purge, thanks to immediate Republican redistricting in those States (2010 was a census year, after all).

Boy, wouldn't it have been handy to have OFA as a source of power to prevent that?

Despite your unabashed rage at the liberal wing of the party, they voted in 2010. Also, they were not at all involved in the party's strategy in 2010. That would be Rham and his friends from the centrist wing. Who had us run under the brilliant strategy of "OH MY GOD!! I'M SO SORRY WE PASSED THE ACA!!!!! I'M NOT LIKE OBAMA AT ALL!!!!"

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
100. Political reality. As I've mentioned before in my post - posts that you appear to ignore.
Mon Sep 7, 2015, 02:33 PM
Sep 2015

It's very difficult to discuss issues with someone who doesn't even bother to remember the posts he's responded to where his questions have been answered. It's also tiresome.

But here we go...

When President Obama publicly asked people to call their congresscritters to push through legislation like immigration reform, climate change, balanced deficit reduction, tax cuts on the wealthy, reducing gun violence, common sense gun laws, and the implementation of the Affordable Care Act in all States, WE DID. We called and faxed and e-mailed - to no avail. Again, he's working with an unprecedented obstructionist Republican Party - the likes we've never seen before. But you keep pretending that's not the case and you keep pretending that it would have actually made a difference had MORE Obama supporters called, faxed, and e-mailed. Here's a wake-up call: it doesn't work. You think a President Sanders can do what President Obama couldn't? Really? I'd LOVE to see him try.

It encapsulates his opinion about grassroots activists in two short words.

In your opinion...and Jane "I <3 Palin and Norquist" Hamsher's opinion. Got it.

Not a literal statement.

So you admit you were wrong to even insinuate he's said such a thing. Good.

Boy, wouldn't it have been handy to have OFA as a source of power to prevent that?

Too many unicorns not farting enough rainbows for voters, I guess.

Despite your unabashed rage at the liberal wing of the party, they voted in 2010.

Not "unabashed rage". Disbelief and disappointment. But then again, who are these "Liberals" you speak of, kemosabe? Because I voted, and my group of 41 young people voted, and I'm certain you'd be hard-pressed to cal me a Liberal, but I self-identify as one, as do the members of my group. So who are these Liberals you believed voted in 2010 and who didn't?

That would be Rham and his friends from the centrist wing. Who had us run under the brilliant strategy of "OH MY GOD!! I'M SO SORRY WE PASSED THE ACA!!!!! I'M NOT LIKE OBAMA AT ALL!!!!"

May I remind you (and again, you fail to read my posts): Rahm's brother, Ezekiel, as well as Rahm himself has always been FOR the ACA. The Professional Left weren't (no single-payer - NO HEALTHCARE REFORM FOR YOU!).

Remember this? “F—ing retarded,” Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.

But, you know, political realities and all that. DEATH PANELS! HEALTH CARE WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE! KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY DOCTOR'S OFFICE! (Remember those cutesy Uncle Sam ads paid for by the Kochs in those examination rooms?). NO SINGLE-PAYER - NO HEALTH CARE REFORM!

You're conveniently forgetting the political climate during the health care reform debate during that time, and how U.S. M$M were advancing the Republican/GOP/Koch Bros lies to the public via ads, pressers, and Teabagger rallies that got wall-to-wall coverage each and every day. Yeah, but Rahm Emanuel, who cautioned against running against Blue Dog Dems to Liberal groups, is the bogeyman.

ChimpersMcSmirkers

(3,328 posts)
48. I love lists...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:11 PM
Sep 2015

When liberals don't show up to vote in mid-terms and locals how much of that is plausible? It's so much easier to just show up every four years and fight for that one person that can fix it all.

PS:

RACIAL JUSTICE

That's good stuff let me know when Bernie gets more than 15% of minority voters. It's the single thing that will keep Bernie away from the ring. Representing a 94% white state does that to you, but please tell us more about that MLK march. Getting bumped off your stage by a couple of BLM activists and slumping off to side will do it! Yep that photo.[link:| The one that says...man I'm not doing this right.

ChimpersMcSmirkers

(3,328 posts)
60. Nah...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:06 PM
Sep 2015

A test, got it. We have those tests every two years and have continued to fail them time after time, but please make it about this year.

Ron Green

(9,822 posts)
70. OK, it's about THIS YEAR.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:37 PM
Sep 2015

This year it's different. We've got the usual jerks on the Republican side, and the media-enabled front runner on the Dem side will do just fine for the big money boys. If people don't get this, the last chance might slip away. That's the way I see it, and so do a lot (but not yet quite enough) of other people.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
61. That is so WRONG.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:08 PM
Sep 2015

Bernie wasn't running that rally: he was an invited speaker. The host let the women take the mic. He stuck around for the ladies' speeches and the moment of silence but had to leave for two other gigs in the same city that day.

And how would it have looked if Bernie had challenged those women? They just wanted to scream in the middle with everyone looking at them. So they got what they wanted.

That night he had thousands of supporters cheering for him. He's doing so much that is RIGHT.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
15. "Blind eye see's all" was a Butthole Surfers film
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:43 PM
Sep 2015

Hence the 'surf' reference.

And I just loooove Bob Denver! It's a perfect storm!

...or not, but I just love that video.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. Look in GD: P. There are lots of threads explaining where Sen Sanders stands.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:39 PM
Sep 2015

And his web site gives his plans.

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
16. We know where he stands, but...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 07:44 PM
Sep 2015

There's a big difference between that and releasing policy proposals crunching the numbers for media and citizens to judge. Hillary and O'Malley are cranking out policy papers. Hillary just released one on rural economies + addiction intervention + college + economics + climate, etc., and Martin has been cranking them out as well.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
84. I was waiting. I thought maybe the sky would open, the light will come down,
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 06:06 PM
Sep 2015

celestial choirs would be singing.* And there would descend from on high Hillary's policy papers that she has been cranking out that only a select person has seen.


* http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/clinton-turns-from-anger-to-sarcasm/?_r=0


 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
40. On college where Sen Sanders says that the wealthy should share the burdon of sending
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:34 PM
Sep 2015

our young people to college, Clinton wants the states to promise to hold down costs.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
32. Does she make it clear that she supports fracking and the TPP and the XL Pipeline? All that
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:12 PM
Sep 2015

help corporations make bigger profits.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
34. Please point me to a cranked out Hillary white paper. I've seen Martins but Hillary's?
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:17 PM
Sep 2015

Seeing is believing.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
82. I'm on pins and needles to read one of Hillary's policy papers. Still waiting for you
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 10:20 AM
Sep 2015

to post a link. Pretty Please?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
67. He's been releasing concrete proposals left and right.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 11:35 PM
Sep 2015

Apparently someone hasn't been paying attention.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
21. Clinton waves her arms and gets applause from the Goldman-Sachs crowd
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:47 PM
Sep 2015

when she tells them that banksters are being picked on. Then they give her money. Her wealth is growing and growing. She is a member in good standing of the 1%.

Bubzer

(4,211 posts)
29. I find it fascinating that Hillary support posts trend around the 20-30 rec mark, and rarely higher.
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:07 PM
Sep 2015

This op is a prime example.

Bernie Sanders support posts have exceeded the 100 rec mark on numerous occasions, with other lesser posts still frequenting the greatest threads section.

We could ignore that and still know that Hillary sees Bernie as a serious threat purely by the increased attacks from her surrogates.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
77. And many are hoping they will.
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 12:58 AM
Sep 2015

When a Republican strategist comes on teevee and says that the GOP hopes Bernie Sanders will win from Hillary Clinton, that tells you all you need to know.

They have their battle-plan ready for the socialist from Vermont. He will be torn to pieces and then crushed, and we would get another Republican in the White House, just in time to appoint the next four SCOTUS justices and to launch another WAR!!

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
79. Hate to tell them....Bernie is a lover not a fighter
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 01:52 AM
Sep 2015

He wont be able to fite back at them.....its just not in his nature....they will tear him to shreds.....and he will just stand there and take it......and to thrle "mushy middle" all you have to do is make the opponent look like a loser.....and they will use every dirty trick in the book.....

And poor Bernie will just ignore them.....slowly bleeding the "mushy middle" that justs votes for who they perceive is a winner.....and all it takes to convince them is a little theatrics (looking at you Donald Trump). And Bob's your Uncle.....President asshole Republican again.....only now they have President Asshole and control of Senate and House to boot!

I keep saying.....you cannot get into a cage match with those rattlesnake, carpetbagging Republicans fighting the Marquis of Queensbury Rules! Bless his heart....but that dog won't hunt.

Me, I much prefer a scappy candidate...especially one who has faced and studied the opposition....One who has experience dealing with the worst of the worse rhey've got. Playing Mr.Nice Guy is where Pres. Obama almost went wrong! It is exactly the problem we saw with Jimmy Carter.....he never fought back against his detractors either...he was just full speed ahead with his plans.....meanwhile....THEY were busy attacking and defining him....little by little public perception was being changed...and Jimmy continued to just block out the "noise". Well....we all know how that turned out...

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
50. Here it is in context...
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:20 PM
Sep 2015

But asked about why voters find Biden and challenger Bernie Sanders more authentic than Clinton, the former secretary of state seemed to take subtle dig at Sanders. "I started out listening because I think you can come with your own ideas and you can wave your arms and give a speech, but at the end of the day, are you connecting with and really hearing?" she said.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
80. Does Sanders wave his arms around a lot more than other folks?? What a remarkable tempest in a teapot this is!
Sat Sep 5, 2015, 09:40 AM
Sep 2015
 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
27. She Waves and by her own admission say's little without gauging her audience and their response, Her
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 09:01 PM
Sep 2015

in a nutshell, and for once I believe her .

ejbr

(5,856 posts)
45. I am perplexed
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:01 PM
Sep 2015

as to how this was a "dig" at Bernie rather than an attempt to elevate herself. True, the answer appears to dismiss the other campaigns, but given the nature of electoral politics, I don't see her comments as being so egregious as warranting a response. If someone thinks that Bernie's only appeal is waving his arms and giving a speech, then I would presume their votes are locked into one of the inane Republicans.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
52. Here is what she said
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:24 PM
Sep 2015

But asked about why voters find Biden and challenger Bernie Sanders more authentic than Clinton, the former secretary of state seemed to take subtle dig at Sanders. "I started out listening because I think you can come with your own ideas and you can wave your arms and give a speech, but at the end of the day, are you connecting with and really hearing?" she said.


Perhaps if M$M was covering Bernie as a real contender this would not need to be replied to, but since not all voters are on reddit, twitter, and FB he needs to shut this down now.

ejbr

(5,856 posts)
55. I agree with the media blackout, however
Fri Sep 4, 2015, 10:36 PM
Sep 2015

the media has noted the consistent sizes of Bernie's rallies and if an uninformed person does not appreciate that this is because he IS "hearing and connecting with people", a significant number of people no less, then they are a lost cause, imho. Still, will keep quiet and let him and his handlers do their thing. What matters is that he wins.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Sanders fires back at Cli...