A graphic that says all that needs to be said.

[stevenleser]

but in case you want more details: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

[slipslidingaway]

1. Wtf ??? do you really want to promote this type of poll? n/t

[stevenleser]

2. WTF? You want to pretend that the public doesn't believe these things?

Nominating a self described Socialist is handing the White House to the GOP.

I think folks should stop pretending otherwise.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Why are you helping people stay uninformed ...

I remember when Obama called a single payer HC system a 'socialist system' in his speech to the AMA and said he would never approve of that system.

Do you really want people to take a stance along religious lines etc.

A Jew, a Muslim, a Christian etc

YES WTF!!!

And perpetuating these labels helps.

[stevenleser]

12. I'll make you a deal. Get Bernie to drop out and I'll get Gallup to stop doing this poll.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Just because someone does or says something you do not have to promote it ...

unless you are agree with it or want to disregard the message to score political points. Either way it makes one look rather closed minded and I would not want my name associated with such a repulsive message.

But you keep rolling on the floor and laughing at others. No matter the outcome of the election I can at least know I accept people for who they are, not their religion, not their skin color and not their sexual preferences.

[stevenleser]

48. I find your objections not only disingenuous but silly.

The poll is very important to what is going on in the Democratic Primary as one of the traits listed is one that is a policy choice by one of the candidates, and it clearly shows that he is a non-viable candidate.

In terms of the other things it lists, I am Jewish and multi-racial, so don't even try to lecture me on diversity issues.

[slipslidingaway]

58. You Can change people's minds, again just because a poll chose to divide ...

you do not have to promote it, you can choose which side to be on.

For someone who is multi-racial you sure do have a closed corporate mind.

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. There is idealism for you

Deny reality if it doesnt suit your narrative..

[slipslidingaway]

76. Give in and vote for the corporate candidate once again ...

continue to hate those unlike yourself and divide along religious, racial lines.

What a winning ticket! Is that what Hillary is promoting because that is what this poll is promoting and I find it disgusting.

Give up and vote for the corporate funded candidate! We should just all roll over because the corporations own our elections, that is reality.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. Really?

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[VanillaRhapsody]

128. So you support Ralph Nader?

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. and a link to your source would be nice...

Mine is used by Statistician Nate Silver!

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. shewww...had to hunt that one down...

I understand your delay...

Now....we as in THIS country are not on THAT scale...we are discussing OUR politicians...we don't really have many full on Socialists in Govt. But you go ahead and compare us to the rest of the world if you want to....good luck ...in the meantime...WE will be doing what it really takes to get shit done. You are not going to have your Socialist or Anarchist Utopia in the United States in your lifetime...and that is because you are an Idealist not a Realist....I will stick with reality....what CAN be accomplished.

Guess who uses MY graph though? Nate Silver...Statistician


and apparently you DO support Ralph Nader...because you are flashing this one in response to the previous one...that MUST mean you accept its terms...and therefore since you are a far lefty....must want Ralph Nader to run....as he is as Far left as you have...

Frankly I think that's just bunk....

I will stick with Nate.

Oh and no updates since 2008? You realize its 2015 now right? At least mine is current!

[sabrina 1]

147. You might have a point if the Dem base, was all that was needed to win an election, especially since

Dems have LOST 10% of their voters since 2009. Now only 32% of registered voters, with the LARGEST voting bloc being INDEPENDENTS, how is this even RELEVANT?

Not to mention the NON VOTERs, an even larger potential voting bloc which are NOT included in Gallup, who are now signing up for Bernie Sanders finally feeling that there is someone who actually represents the people.

But it's okay, I like that the 'inside the beltway bubble 'experts'' are so far removed from the reality of what the PEOPLE are doing and want, that Bernie is able to just keep on signing up VOTERS, and he doesn't much care about their personal 'attributes' just that they are AMERICANS who have a RIGHT to get the kind of leadership they have been DENIED for so long.

We've heard all the 'expert' opinions for so long now they are so old, so out of date, the people are just moving forward without the pundits and the experts and the talking heads and they are busy CHANGING this whole corrupt system by choosing someone who actually represents them.

I like that the 'experts' don't have a clue. They thought OWS was just a 'flash in the pan' too, too bad FOR THEM.

[ReasonableToo]

104. here's what should be polled:

This is the poll that should be run...

1.) Do you think that when it's snowing, you and all of your neighbors should be required to shovel the street in front of your house every 1/2 hour to 1 hour to keep the road clear?
2.) If not, do you think that you should hire someone to keep the road in front of your house clear even if that means your neighbors may hire different people?
3.) If not, do you think the government should collect taxes to pay to clear the roads in front of your house and all over the area.
4.) If yes, do you think that the people through their representatives (rather than lobbyists) should decide what their tax money is spent on snow plowing and other services that benefit them as individuals and the public as a whole?
5.) if yes, did you know that you are a democratic socialist?

THEN ask if the person would elect someone who agrees with their answers for numbers 1-4.

[SouthernProgressive]

115. "You want to pretend"

That part is pretty clear. A Gowdy witch hunt is promoted here every single day yet this is what they don't want people to disseminate. It is becoming comical.

[slipslidingaway]

3. Rec for being divisive! I cannot believe anyone would want to promote this poll!!!

Hope you get 100 + recs.

[stevenleser]

4. Being divisive? You mean like all the posts to which you didn't object that attacked Hillary?

[slipslidingaway]

33. You are promoting hate, pure and simple ...

and I could have recommended and or responded to many posts that attached Hillary and I did not. If these are your beliefs then stay with Hillary, because the Bernie camp does not people who seek to divide along religious, racial or gender beliefs. Please stay with Hillary!

Sorry but that poll is disgusting!

We lived with a young girl and her mother who were Muslim at the American Cancer's Hope Lodge in NYC following my husband's second allogeneic bone marrow transplant and they were afraid to say they were Muslim for several weeks. When they finally did they were still hesitant.

To see you promoting this type of poll is so very offensive to all people, honestly I have no other words.

Have you even looked at the plight of refugees lately! The girl I speak of fled Kosovo when she was 8 and eventually her and her family made their way to the US. She is now 23 years old and is now facing a very uncertain future once again, she is kind, loving as is her family, and yes they are Muslim. I will not judge them by their religion.

This is no laughing matter for too many people, you can roll on the floor laughing as a Hillary supporter or you can wake up and join the rest of the people trying to get by with others, who just might be a little different from you.

Your choice.

[stevenleser]

36. I'm promoting reality, pure and simple.

You are promoting a course that hands the White House to the GOP.

[slipslidingaway]

59. If reality continues to divide people by religion and race then that can be your job! n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. Reality just is...

Denying it doesnt change that..

[slipslidingaway]

73. If you want to continue the divide by religion, race and gender preference then so be it ...

I will NOT be a part!

Change does not come without a fight and all battles certainly are not won, but I will not be one to promote a divide amongst people, people are people. It is just that simple.

Promoting this poll is repulsive, people can change their minds.

Do you think fighting for equality is just some weird idea?

It is easy to say 'it is what it is' but that does not bring about the necessary change for the majority of our people. And I certainly will not promote polls that seek to divide and call it "reality"

Too many people have fought to change "reality"

You can remain part of the problem or seek to change it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. Go ahead

Be repulsed......its the way it is.....and no it should not be censored...

By the way....you arent born a Socialist like being Gay or Black......so being so offended that this poll discriminates against you is over the top....

This poll is what it is...would you rather be surprised at the outcome....or would you rather know what you are up against?

[slipslidingaway]

82. Never said it should be censored, just that I find it repulsive, divisive and not something I ...

would promote, you obviously disagree. We should all be segregated and continue to promote divisions instead of looking at issues and people as ... just people!

If you want to divide along religious and racial lines then so be it, but count me out!

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. Yes....

Had to squeeze in the word "segregate" too.....bet you thought that was clever...Come on now....you understand this...

No one is talking race and religion here...yes there are Catholics and Protestants....Gasp thats "segregated"

This isnt about religion or race etc....its about political Demographics....hell even advertising works this way ..demographics....

This poll just disturbs your world view that Socialism is popular.Demographics...

[LovingA2andMI]

86. Refused to Rec....

As this "poll" is not worth the click.... #FeelTheBern!!!

[Scootaloo]

5. That's all you think needs to be said?

Fascinating.

[Armstead]

17. Bingo

[SunSeeker]

91. I know right? Especially since all that needs to be said has already been said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251575966

[Scootaloo]

110. Issues vs. identity. Which carries more weight?

[SunSeeker]

118. So socialism is not an issue, it's Bernie's identity?

[Scootaloo]

155. If the argument is just "He's a SOCIALIST!!!" with no mention of actual policy or positions, yeah

[SunSeeker]

157. We're not saying that, but the GOP will be. That is an issue.

Bernie has made no attempt to educate people on the campaign trail about what socialism is (or what he thinks it is). So it is kind of hard to discuss his "policy positions" when it comes to socialism, since he seems to avoid the "s" word like the plague. He only talks about it when asked by interviewers, and only dances around it when he does answer. He does not explain how or if he would like to implement socialist ideals. At best, he will say something, "well, you like social security and medicare right?"

[Scootaloo]

159. Yeah, you are saying it. Don't pretend to be clueless.

And Sanders' positions and policies are all out there for anyone to see and engage. These positions are based on his stance and beliefs as a Democratic socialist.

The candidate who's running away is the one telling us we'll have to elect them to know their position on something.

[SunSeeker]

161. No, what we're saying is someone who calls himself a socialist will get us a GOP President...

...if he is the Dem nominee. Fortunately, that looks less and less likely to happen. Bernie just got beat out for second place by Biden, who hasn't even announced he's running. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/joe-biden-edges-past-bernie-sanders-new-national-poll-n423471

[Scootaloo]

163. Your staunch confidence in the republican field is duly noted

[SunSeeker]

165. LOL. I'm not the one supporting a non-Dem for President.

I'm the one who doesn't want to see a fucking Republican in the White House.

I don't want Bernie as our nominee for the same reason that the GOP does want him as the Dem nominee. He is a weak national candidate.

[Scootaloo]

168. The DNC says he's welcome.

Sorry to tell you, SunSeeker, but the only way for anyone on the Democratic ticket to lose against the republicans this cycle, is if a bunch of democrats "stay home" or "jump ship."

So when you come in to tell me how mighty the Republicans are and how feeble Sanders is, I have to wonder what else you're telling me. Would you vote for him in the general? I don't think you would. Me? I sucked up my grievances and voted Kerry in 2004, I think I can manage Clinton if I have to. But you don't have grievances, you have hatred. How deep does your hate for Sanders run?

[SunSeeker]

169. I would vote for whoever the Dem nominee is in the general.

But in the primary, we should be voting for a Dem nominee candidate who is strong and battle-hardened, ready for the Republican dirty tricks. Bernie is just not that person. You underestimate the GOP at your own peril. And overestimate the ability of the electorate to see through the GOP bullshit without a boatload of money to counteract it. I do not want history to repeat itself.



There is too much at stake.

[Scootaloo]

170. "I do not want history to repeat itself"

That's certainly debatable. But alright. In 2000, slightly more than two hundred thousand Florida Democrats voted for George W. Bush. This made the election so much easier to steal.

Encourage your fellow Democrats to not do that, and it won't be a problem.

[SunSeeker]

171. Aren't you a "fellow Democrat"? nt

[Scootaloo]

172. Yep, but the emphasis is on "your"

We evidently travel in different circles beneath this big tent.

[frylock]

164. That kills any chance Sanders had of winning that national primary.

[pablo_marmol]

6. Damn.....hate of socialists exceeds hate of atheists?

I'm going to need to pray to the FSM to try to calm down here before I sleep!

[stevenleser]

7. Yep, an atheist would have a slim prayer (pun intended) of being elected President.

The FSM must be doing something right!

[Go Vols]

117. They did in the first week of June it seems

What were Bernie's numbers then,like 9%?

[stevenleser]

143. One is not tied to the other. nt

[Capn Sunshine]

9. Admittedly, an uphill climb

for any candidate linked to the word "socialist"
Although it didn't hurt Obama all that much.

This is why Bernie will Take the PAC money; you'll need half of it to explain to the ill-informed what a "Democratic Socialist" is.

[stevenleser]

21. Obama doesnt self identify that way. And there is video of Sanders self describing as a Socialist

on several occasions. Eventually, someone or some PAC is going to compile them and make them into a campaign ad and it will be devastating.

[Capn Sunshine]

153. Bernie does not like this message. It's kind of a blind spot with him.

I was on a conference call when this socialist thing came up, he said two things "I can explain myself sufficiently to the American people" and " It has not stopped me from being elected for 16 years"

End of discussion.

I look at my west coast partner and say " see? The elephant has left the room"

I hope for his sake he's right. Tad Devine has something planned. For later.

[Live and Learn]

10. And yet Bernie's support just keeps on growing!

Of course, most of us know he is not a socialist anyway.

[stevenleser]

18. As the poll notes, his ceiling with the Democrats is 59% so he could theoretically get that high

assuming he was the only person in the race.

[Live and Learn]

26. You are assuming most people can't differentiate between a Demoratic Socialist and

a Socialist. Aside from you apparently, most people can.

Do you think most people think the majority of European nations and Canada are lead by Socialists?

[stevenleser]

28. See my #25. Democratic Socialists identify as Socialist. Maybe you should listen to those who self

identify that way.

Democratic Socialists believe in Socialism as the economic order.

[Live and Learn]

34. Bernie has stated himself what he believes.

Perhaps he doesn't need some site telling him what to believe. It is also evident that a majority of people believe in the same issues he does. And that is why he is going to win!

[stevenleser]

43. Yes and he dances around the main issue by describing some popular policies.

But in the end he does not believe in capitalism and eventually he is going to be forced to admit that.

[SunSeeker]

90. Yup. That is exactly what he does. Dances around the subject.

And only when asked. He never raises it on his own. And even when asked, he has yet to define what he believes socialism is. He has certainly not made any real attempt to educate people about it. He doesn't appear to want to talk about it. That is in and of itself his own acknowledgement that socialism is toxic in American national politics.

[Nay]

116. Well, he has talked about how capitalism is, in a finite world, impossible

at a certain point of development, and that severe modifications of the present style of capitalism is necessary. IOW, he leans toward the Nordic mix of socialism and regulated capitalism, in which a country's whole population benefits from the wealth created rather than just the top 10%. Thus his comment below:

You can’t just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don’t think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on. [Source: cnbc.com 5/26/15]

On Face the Nation:

Sanders said, “I think what the Pope has been saying in a very profound and deep way is that casino-type capitalism is causing devastating problems not only in terms of our climate but in terms of income and wealth inequality. He talks about the fact that all over the world, for example, we are ignoring the needs of senior citizens who often, in our country and around the world, are lonely, don’t have the money they need for medicine or to heat their homes or to eat the food, buy the food that they need to survive. He has talked about an issue, John, that I am talking about a lot and that is young people throughout the world in our country today we have youth unemployment for white kids who graduate high school of 33 percent; Hispanic kids, 36 percent; African American kids 51 percent. And what the pope is saying there’s something wrong internationally where almost all of the new wealth in this world is going to people on the top and so many other people are falling by the wayside. So, yes, I think that Pope Francis has played an extraordinary role; he has been a voice of conscience all over the world, speaking out for those people who don’t have a voice, those people who are suffering. And what are you saying, enough is enough. Money cannot be the God of life. We have got to look at our kids, look at those people who are hurting. We’ve got to come together to create a new world and not a world in which a handful of people have so much wealth and so many other people are suffering. I am a great fan of Pope Francis.”

It doesn't matter whether Bernie believes in capitalism or not, or whether he admits he hates it or admits he loves it if it is modified. His whole focus is on whether the political/economic system we are presently enjoying is doing its job for the people of this nation, or whether it has become a license to steal from and abuse the citizens of the nation. When you say Bernie is "dancing around the main issue" -- well, that's because the main issue is NOT whether he believes in capitalism or not, it's whether the system is producing the results we want for the era that we are entering. It's more nuanced than the "socialism bad, capitalism good!" or "socialism good, capitalism bad!" sort of thinking that has prevailed in this country.

Now, you are right that the idiots in this country still will have knee-jerk responses to someone like Bernie, but that's not Bernie's fault and it is not his intention to deceive anyone; he's out there with simple examples illustrating what he believes should be our focus as a nation, and people are responding to that. He has a long history of working for what he believes in, and people respond to that, too, because they are tired of talkers who don't act in the best interest of the whole country. If Bernie is the nominee, we'll see if there are enough tired voters who'll vote for a SOCIALIST!!!!. I don't get the feeling that Bernie cares that much about being President; he's always been happy as a senator, he's had a full life already, and if people don't like his policies enough to vote for him, he's OK with that, too. He'll think the country is pretty much doomed, but he'll know he can't do anything about millions of people still reacting in knee-jerk ways to SOCIALISM!!1! and will go back to his former life.

[whatthehey]

135. And therein lies the real answer

Is the dreaded S word a major campaign vulnerability? You'd have to be an idiot to deny it. It's a reviled word that would take major and expensive campaigns to rehabilitate, however much you think the facts are all that is needed.

Is it fatal? Probably not. If, and it's a very big if, Sanders gets the Dem nomination it would be absurd to think that 41% of Dems would refuse to vote for him despite the poll. Some would sure, but probably not hugely more that vote R anyway. Because this poll didn't ask "would you vote for a nominal socialist in your party if he were the only thing standing between the US and President Cruz?" for a start. Nor did it define the policy positions of a given view of socialism. It's pure negative loading to McCarthyite vernacular. Same, to a lesser extent, goes for Indies.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that 26% of Reps would consider a socialist even without the policy caveats. I'm not as exuberant as many here about Sanders' ability to pull over Reps, but if there are any blue collar Reagan Dems not too far Fox-ized into rampant jingoistic inanity, he may be able to peel off some.

I think the defense against it is simply a "This is Sanders' Democratic Socialism You're Told to be Scared of" ad campaign. Where 'This' is family leave, health care, worker safety, environmental regulations, closing offshoring tax loopholes, etc.

[Live and Learn]

156. No, here is the truth. Your entire permise is BS.

You know there is no way in hell for Bernie to turn our capitalistic system in to a socialist system. He is one man. You would need an entire congress (at least 2/3 of a majority) of socialists to even attempt such a feat. Bernie has never uttered any intention of even attempting to do so and couldn't if he wanted to.

[Jamaal510]

11. I'm curious what those

poll numbers are among just Republican respondents, especially for the Black, Hispanic, and Mormon choices. I don't expect them to be as high as the stated polling among all the respondents.

[stevenleser]

15. Click the link, it breaks it out by party lines and it is exactly as you surmise. I will note though

that among independents, only 49% are willing to vote for a Socialist so that is pretty significant.

Link is in the OP but just in case... http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

[Live and Learn]

20. Here you go:

Also one by age:

[XemaSab]

177. Crosstabs are a thing

n/t

[Live and Learn]

13. I guess we can lose the 'people just don't like Hillary because she is a woman' meme

going around here then. Must be another reason her poll numbers keep declining.

[frylock]

120. Yes, the graph certainly undermines that crap meme.

[kath]

14. How many times has this bs "socialist problem" been posted here?

About seventy-eleven, by my count.

Sheesh - the same old crap keeps getting recycled overandoverandoverandover...

[stevenleser]

16. Well, until what are now Bernie supporters start addressing it, I think it needs to be

periodically posted.

Sorry, I don't do well with pretending that difficulties don't exist and I certainly don't do well when other folks propose we take actions that will hand the White House to the Republicans.

[Live and Learn]

23. He is not a Socialist. When will you accept that fact? nt

[stevenleser]

25. He is a Socialist and Democratic Socialists identify that way.

http://www.dsausa.org/


About DSA

The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. DSA's members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly democratic socialist presence in American communities and politics.

At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people. For example, we support reforms that:

decrease the influence of money in politics

empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy

restructure gender and cultural relationships to be more equitable.

We are activists committed to democracy as not simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. We call this vision democratic socialism — a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.

In this web site you can find out about DSA, its politics, structure and program. DSA's political perspective is called Where We Stand. It says, in part,

We are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships.

[Live and Learn]

31. Socialism Definition:

Socialism is a social and economic system characterized by social ownership and/or social control[1] of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Bernie doesn't believe in socialism. He is in favor of capitalism and social democracy which emphasizes policies most Americans also favor even if they don't know what it is called.

Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

I am pretty sure you are aware of the difference and think you are just playing dirty politics here.

[stevenleser]

35. You provide the definition at the bottom for Social democracy not Democratic Socialism

And you accuse me of dirty tricks?



Sanders like all Democratic Socialists is anti-capitalism but, as DSA notes in their online literature, they are happy to take the slow road to a non-private economy.

[Live and Learn]

56. That is simply not true and you know it.

Sanders is the longest-serving independent in U.S. congressional history. A self-described democratic socialist,[4][5][6][7] he favors policies similar to those of social democratic parties in Europe, particularly those instituted by the Nordic countries.[8][9][10] He caucuses with the Democratic Party and has been the ranking minority member on the Senate Budget Committee since January 2015.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

Bernie has already stated that he is in favor of Capitalism for production. What part of that don't you understand? If you think he is mislabeling himself as a Democratic Socialist and you have some big problem with it, why not tell him. Most of us really don't care what he calls himself.

I mean you call yourself a progressive but you aren't acting like one. Should I declare that you are one just because you self-identify that way?

[stevenleser]

144. It's 100% true and it is in every single definition for the philosophy. You can't escape that fact.

And Sanders knows that too. He knows exactly what philosophy he self identifies with.

[Live and Learn]

37. They left out a few groups:

How about Warmongers, Wall-Mart Board Members, Email abusers, Abortion banners...

If you want to play dirty, we all can, right?

[stevenleser]

39. Nonsense will not help your candidate. Nt

[Live and Learn]

51. Nor yours! nt

[stevenleser]

52. A scientific poll is not nonsense. It's the opposite of nonsense. It's quantifiable data.

[Live and Learn]

57. The poll is fine but your assumption of what the poll entails for the election is wrong.

Just wait and see.

[LovingA2andMI]

88. And Supporters of Kim Davis.....

So what does this say about this poll.....plenty.

[stevenleser]

95. Non sequiturs and red herrings do not make your point. Nt

[LovingA2andMI]

173. Yes, it does......

[stevenleser]

174. Nope, logical fallacies never make the point, they just discredit the person that uses them. nt

[LovingA2andMI]

175. Actually...

Those who get it, understand logical fallacies. Those that don't....oh well....

[The River]

19. More Than One Type

of "socialism".
Democratic socialism..as in Europe and
the older form of "totalitarian " socialism where
the state owns everything.

If the poll were fair, it would differentiate the two.
We know that TPTB and their paid media henchmen are anything but fair.
You get the poll results you pay for.
That poll is misleading at best.

I prefer Church Socialism... everyone brings a covered dish
or whatever they can. The rich have more so they bring more.
The poor do what they can, like help with the setup / cleanup.
No one goes broke. No one goes hungry.

[stevenleser]

22. The poll is not misleading. Europe has Social Democracy, not Democratic Socialism.

There is a difference.

[virtualobserver]

30. If Bernie was a statue with a sign hanging around his neck that said "socialist"

you might have a case.

But Bernie walks and talks, and when people hear him....they like what they hear.

[kath]

32. This ^^^

[stevenleser]

40. Because the race has barely just started. No one has really gone after him on

The Socialism issue yet.

But they will and my guess is it will be an O'Malley PAC first.

[virtualobserver]

49. The Republicans have cried wolf for seven years

O' Malley will just make himself look stupid if he does that.

There is nothing to "go after" .......Ted Cruz calls Hillary a socialist as part of his stump speech.

[stevenleser]

50. Yes, because they cried wolf. Now we have someone who self describes. It's a totally different anima

[virtualobserver]

55. People trust their eyes and ears....not labels

People will already know Bernie by the time they try this attack, and he will have already told them that he is a Democratic Socialist.

[stevenleser]

101. Lol, says one of the folks that calls Hillary a Corporatist at every turn

Labels mean a lot in an election actually.

[virtualobserver]

113. only if you allow yourself to be defined by them....

Corporatist is not a term that I use...... I think that you must be thinking of someone else.

You might deduce that I believe that she is a corporatist from my posts but that term is a
little too extreme for my taste, and anyway, I am not a fan of using labels.

I defended the use of the term in one post as a contrast to the "socialist" argument in a commentary
that stated that usage of neither of the two terms constituted "bashing:, but generally I don't like the use of imprecise
shortcuts.....



I just believe that she is influenced by money, like most politicians.

[arcane1]

131. That's where the learning begins!

[The River]

38. Social Democrats Practice Democratic Socialism

"Real Democrats or Social Democrats or whatever you want to call them believe that a capitalist market is a tool like any other and must be regulated to prevent its inherent inhumanity through provision of a social safety net. That is democratic socialism. That is what is found in successfully regulated capitalist countries with strong social safety nets. Innovation isn't stifled, and citizens of those countries are happier, countries like Great Britain, Canada, Switzerland, and Denmark."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1409651/-Many-Democrats-miss-the-point-about-Bernie-Sanders-brand-of-democratic-socialism

[stevenleser]

41. No, they don't, they are distinct ideologies.

Democratic Socialists hope to eventually engineer a change to a Socialist economy.

Social Democrats prefer a capitalist economy with a very strong safety net.

[The River]

53. Either Way

that poll does not differentiate. Therefore it's misleading, as are you.

If you look at answers by age...the older people still equate socialism with
communism because that what the schools taught in the 50's and 60's.
Younger voters are not afraid of it. They know capitalism needs to be reigned it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. See one is an adjective and one is a noun

One is the subject of the term....one is a descriptive word and not the subject ...thats,the differnce....

One Is a Democrat....one is not.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. Bingo!

This is why Sanders isnt and wont become a Democrat....he really is a Socialist

[Armstead]

24. Gee Where's serial killers, cat haters, Buddhists, vegetarians..etc?

Silliest damn thing.....

People thought Obama was a Socialist and a Muslim. A twofer of unelectability according to that.

[stevenleser]

27. Obama doesnt self identify as a Socialist. Only crazy far right Republicans believe he is. nt

[Armstead]

29. Oh I think a lot of less extreme conservatives, and some moderates do too

But to the larger point every candidate has various kinds of baggage that will prevent some peopke from being inclunedvto support them, whether its some identity characterists as listed above, or personal qualities or mistakes orvother memes.

[Live and Learn]

47. I think many of them think all Democrats and liberals are Socialists or Communists.

Luckily the generations that are easily scared by such terms are aging out. It is really sad to see people on a progressive site using these right wing scare tactics.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. This is more than baggage

He is not a Democrat.....I have been saying that....

[Armstead]

87. Time will tell whether it matters

But at least give the guy a damn chance.

President Obama had a past as a "black Saul Alinsky radical community activist." Remember all that crap? Somehow he managed to overcome that baggage.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL NOT VOTE FOR A NICKELBACK FAN

and thank god

[beam me up scottie]

80. Every time someone has homosexual intercourse...

[jfern]

42. He's a democratic socialist, like the UK Labour Party

[stevenleser]

45. The UK labor party are Social Democrats much like the other UK party

That identifies that way.

[jfern]

64. It says both here

And they're affiliated with the Party of European Socialists and an observer of Socialist International.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)

[PatrickforO]

46. Well, we all know that's how the msm will attack Bernie.

'Oh, he's a (gasp) Socialist (shudder). And then they will talk about how he wants to nationalize everything, etc.

To fight back, all of us will have to explain the difference between the old Soviet style communism, which is the brush with which they'll try to paint him, and the northern European concept of Social Democracy, which is what Bernie actually represents. I think Bernie will do pretty well getting that word out.

[stevenleser]

54. And it will be a fatal attack as the poll shows. Nt

[PatrickforO]

63. I don't think so. The millenial generation is over 80 million strong,

of voting age, and engaged with Bernie. Millenials do NOT have the same knee-jerk negative reaction to socialism. Many Boomers and Xers don't either. The red scare days with old Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy and Tricky Dick Nixon are over long since.

We'll see how it goes, but I'll remind you the poll is really close right now. When people hear what Bernie is saying they will begin to equate it not with socialism as our oligarchs want us to think, but with a better New Deal.

[slipslidingaway]

68. From what I am seeing, do not discount the millenials! n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

60. well, I guess 40% of the population won't support the inevitable DeMontague Presidential candidacy.

Your loss, Atheist-fearin' fuckers. Your loss.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. At least they left out the Commie, Red, Bomb throwing radical, part.

[slipslidingaway]

65. I really think you need to lose the image in your avartar ...

as I do not think Malala would agree with segregating people along the lines in this poll and that you are now promoting.

People want ideas and a proven track record of those ideas over time. Thankfully people saw past Obama's skin color and elected him, many people said that would not happen, they were wrong.

Stop dividing people and focus on uniting people for the good of all people, we can win if we are united.

If the DNC would put up a fight that would help! Instead they are cowering behind the curtain and not even having a debate until after the deadline in certain states to declare a party and people (especially independents) will not be allowed to vote in the primary election.

How to lose an election ... just ask the Dems

[stevenleser]

97. I think you need to worry about your own poor arguments and imagery and

Your candidates problematic ideology.

And projecting your views on Malala, who has not espoused an economic philosophy, is a pathetic and poor excuse for a debate tactic.

[TheFarS1de]

106. Much like your OP .

eom.

[wilsonbooks]

70. Bernie is going to bring millions of new voters to the polls.

He will kick some ass in the debates. He is a straight talker and says what he means and means what he says.

Hillary will tell us her positions after she is elected. http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/28/hillary-on-keystone-youll-have-to-wait-for-my-election-to-get-my-position/

[Warren DeMontague]

75. but but but conventional beltway wisdom says the American people want status quo pablum

nay, they DEMAND it!

[whatchamacallit]

77. So you're pleased as punch that Americans are ignorant?

Anything to win.

[SunSeeker]

92. Apparently Bernie is, since he has made no attempt to educate Americans on the campaign trail.

He never talks about socialism on the stump. Why is that?

[Geronimoe]

79. This is a joke

Catholic women most inevitable to become President. Isn't that special and convenient.

Of course few actually vote on labels. Otherwise Obama never would have won. He was labeled as a black, Muslim, socialist.

[slipslidingaway]

81. "Americans Under 30 the Least Particular on Candidate Characteristics"

from the link in the OP.

Fortunately the under 30 crowd are not as easily swayed by the preconceived labels of this poll and will look at the issues, if the DNC ever has debates!

Honestly I find this poll insulting as it tries to define us along religious, racial and then, not even a political party. They only included the word socialist, not Dem, Repub, Green, Communist. What was the agenda to just include "socialist?"


"...Americans Under 30 the Least Particular on Candidate Characteristics

Gallup also finds wide differences in support for gay or lesbian, atheist, Muslim and socialist presidential candidates by age. Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more likely than those 65 and older to support these four types of candidates. Younger Americans are also slightly more likely to say they will vote for women and Hispanics, by eight points each.

At least two-thirds of adults younger than 30 say they are willing to vote for a candidate with any of the characteristics included in the survey."

[beam me up scottie]

84. What do you expect? The op's candidate is tanking so they have to hype hatred for certain people.

This is the new go to meme since they can't convince people Hillary's a better choice based on issues.

Have you seen their new bumpersticker?

Hillary 2016: Because she's not a socialist!

[JDPriestly]

83. Someone posted the video Bernie made about Eugene Debs

today.

Here is the link to that post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128047728

You know what amazed me?

The number of ideas for which Debs advocated that we accept today as the American way of life: unions, women voting (women's suffrage), the equality of people of different races, fair wages for work, no child labor, the right to protest a war, and many other things.

Apparently the socialism of the early 20th and late 19th centuries is as American as apple pie today.

Socialism is just a word that we imbue with our own meanings.

I have not heard Bernie advocate for any ideas that are outside the American mainstream.

I attended Bernie's speech in Los Angeles. There was not one item, one word that I disagreed with. The crowd was with him on each policy proposal and every vies.

Saving Social Security, racial equality, the end of police brutality especially of people of color, free college tuition at state schools (used to be nearly free), universal coverage by single payer healthcare, government funded elections, universal child care, maternity leave, sick leave, livable wages, national security that limits use of the military mostly for self-defense, humanitarian purposes and preventing genocide, no mass collection of our personal internet communications, etc.

Those are all programs that Americans want, policies that Americans generally support.

And they fit right into our history of land-grant colleges, of Lincoln opening up the West and handing out parcels of 160 acres of government land to Americans who showed they would work that land and make it productive, of unions and Social Security and canals and electrification projects and national parks and don't forget the greatest socialist project in our history -- Eisenhower's building of our freeway network. I remember the Eisenhower era very well.

It's the Ayn Rand crew that should be worried. Americans have had it with a stock market that cheats people out of their homes, their jobs and their money, trade policy that works only for the multinational corporations and not for ordinary Americans, constant wars that only lead to more wars -- usually over the resources of countries with little military defense -- lousy, but very expensive education, pay so low you can't live on it, rising rents without commensurate rises in pay, virtually all of the benefits of growth in our economy going to the very, very rich while wages stagnate for years, etc.

Those difficult living circumstances, the economic inequality that is so extreme in our country, the most extreme economic inequality in any developed nation, that is the problem.

And our crazy, self-destructive trade policy is at fault for many of these problems along with the rapid rate of technological development. We need a president who understands that social policy and economic policy have to keep up with technological policy and protect us in times of very rapid economic change.

Bernie is the only candidate who gets that.

If we don't nominate Bernie, the most likely result is that Trump with all his bigotry and possibly mob ties, will win the presidency.

I do not see Hillary generating the excitement among Americans to win the White House. Not going to happen.

But then, why am I wasting my breath. Some people prefer to interact with Fox News staff and viewers than with Democrats.

And most Americans, having attended schools that don't teach American history very honestly but rather teach right-wing propaganda about American history, don't know enough about their own history to appreciate the fact that we already have a somewhat mixed economy, mixed capitalist/socialist. Personally I like that mix and I think that free education and the programs Bernie will propose will help us to move forward in more harmony.

I would love a fast rail system in the US that runs on alternative energy. I would love a program that puts solar panels on more and more houses and in fields not suited to agriculture. I would love better flood control and better public schools. Personally I would love to see every child in the country have the opportunity to attend a really good day-care or pre-school, say Montessori school if the parents wish it -- at no cost to the family. I would like to see free care for the very elderly that respects the dignity of those in that helpless and vulnerable time of life.

And we have the financial resources to do these things.

This past weekend, I visited Silicon Valley. In a matter of a just a few hours, we counted over 48 private, small airplanes flying around. If American can afford fleets of private, small airplanes, we can certainly afford the policies that Bernie is advocating.

We have always been a can-do nation. We can implement the programs Bernie is suggesting.

Call it socialism or the American tradition. It's what Americans want. It is true to our nature, within the spirit of our history and we should go for it.

I support Bernie, not the naysayers on Fox News.

[KoKo]

108. Recommend...

[MisterP]

85. here's what this cosmic-level sadness is apparently a response to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251575966

[beam me up scottie]

89. Thanks! Let's have another look at that since it causes so many sadz:

Actually this one is more comprehensive:

[Vattel]

94. Without a definition of socialism, this poll is pretty meaningless.

On the traditional definition of socialism, socialism excludes capitalism (because socialism involves the state owning the means of production). Bernie is not a socialist in that sense.

[beam me up scottie]

96. Why would you want to confuse the op with facts?

Way to ruin the celebration of American bigotry and ignorance!

[stevenleser]

99. Democratic Socialists very much believe in an end game where either the state or workers own the

Means of production, as every definition of that philosophy makes clear.

The difference between that flavor of Socialism and Marxism/Leninism is that they believe in Democratic means to get there and stay there whereas Marxism/Leninism stress revolution and dictatorship.

[Vattel]

121. so you agree with me that Bernie doesn't believe that the state should own the means of production.

[stevenleser]

122. No, I don't. nt

[Vattel]

126. Then you need to find out what Bernie believes.

Not only does he not want the state to own the means of production, he does not want to eliminate capitalism:

Bernie Sanders: "Capitalism does a number of things very well: it helps create an entrepreneurial spirit, it gets people motivated to come up with new ideas and that’s a good thing. But on the other hand, especially since the Reagan era, what we have seen in this country is an unfettered type of cowboy capitalism, and the result of that has been, that the people on top have made out like bandits and many of them are bandits. Today in America we have a situation that is quickly moving out of control."

[Romulox]

129. He doesn't care. He's looking for something (anything!) to hang his hat on. nt

[stevenleser]

134. He dodges the question every time he is asked. What you posted is a dodge. nt

[Romulox]

138. When did he stop beating his wife? WHEN!!!!!!

[Vattel]

148. Okay, so you don't seem to know whether he wants to eliminate capitalism.

And your own definition of a social democrat allows for the existence of social democrats who do not want the state to own the means of production (since it allows for supporting worker-owned businesses). And yet you are just sure that Sanders wants the state to own the means of production and wants to eliminate capitalism. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

[Romulox]

130. LOL. Very convincing stuff! nt

[Bonobo]

162. If that's the case, Fox News chose well. nt

[Armstead]

123. Naw. But if you want to think that, go ahead.

I know Sean Hannity would agree with you

[stevenleser]

140. It's in every single definition of the philosophy. Deny that if you want, but you are wrong. nt

[bvf]

107. I thought the same thing.

I'd think most respondents didn't have a clue about the definition, anyway. Remember the fight againt social security, and how Reagan trotted out the dirty word to rail against it? Talk about arguing to the ignorant.

I would have liked to see how the categories zymurgist and philatelist fared in this poll.

[morningfog]

98. It actually says little to nothing.

It is totally generic and nearly pointless.

Setting that to the side, I wonder if the results have changed since June.

[djean111]

100. If Clinton is such a lock, due to gender, and not, oh, due to issues and other boring stuff,

why bother with this?
If you actually think something like this would make inspire those who support Bernie - due to the issues - to start supporting Hillary, you have not been paying attention, or might be a little too confident in your ability to influence people.

[peacebird]

102. yawn...

[DanTex]

103. Yup. And the level of denial in the responses here is epic.

[stevenleser]

142. They have to deny it if they want to continue supporting Sanders because what it means is that

if we nominate Sanders, it's handing the general election and the White House to Republicans on a silver platter.

It's worse than that, it's handing the Republicans the White House on a Silver platter and asking them if they want fries with that.

[Bonobo]

105. I have to admit I am enjoying the rising sense of panic and fear.

It's tastier than bacon!

[restorefreedom]

149. i'll go for the tofu bacon...

but i'm with you....it's good!

[Gothmog]

109. The polling on the terms "socialist" and "socialism" show that these terms are toxic

It will be easy for the Kochs to use these terms to drive up the negatives of Sanders if he was the nominee

[think]

111. Funny. The poll neglects to ask if Americans would vote for a corporatist.

Must just be a mistake on the Gallup corporation's part to fail to ask that question.

Corporatism
the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corporatism

[stevenleser]

141. That term doesnt mean anything to 95% of Americans so its irrelevant. nt

[mmonk]

112. I believe in giving up on everything I believe in and in right vs wrong

depending upon the opinion of others. I would rather be part of group think instead of thinking at all. I have no convictions other than groups or labels.

[MisterP]

154. they'd just say, "well, what else is there?"

[SouthernProgressive]

114. Sanders is a capitalist. He has used other terms for political reasons.

Almost every aspect of his career goes against the thought of socialism.

[frylock]

119. So all the pants-shitting from Team Clinton is for naught..

this thing is in the bag.

[Romulox]

125. The more you guys use "ZOMG SOCIALIST!" as an insult, the less it resonates. nt

[liberal N proud]

133. This is getting good

[restorefreedom]

150. indeed.

[restorefreedom]

151. can you people puleeeze get some new material?

this is played.

and it reeks of desperation.

[stevenleser]

166. Nothing new is needed. This is fatal for Bernies candidacy. Nothing more needs to be said

Nominating him would be handing the White House to the GOP on a silver platter.

I'll be posting this periodically until that sinks in.

[restorefreedom]

167. actually you have it backwards

it is hillary who can't win a g.e.. we might as well start getting used to hearing "president trump."

bernie is our best chance. or om. hillary is done. you just can't see it yet.

[randys1]

152. Whether Bernie can win or not, I would hope all liberals would want to reverse those last two

and whether we can do it before the next election or not is not the question.

I support Bernie and Hillary, but I also want the people to grow up.

That half of this country still has the attitude of a 9 yr old when it comes to god and socialism, is very disturbing but can be fixed.

[Ron Green]

158. TOPS

RS.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

160. Jewish 91% there you go

[artislife]

176. Great, maybe now you all will retire

the victimization of being a woman for Hillary.

Yes, it seems that Sanders has a problem if he doesn't elaberate on what a Social DEMOCRAT is .