One word definitions of candidates? How about "untrustworthy" and "liar"

[Bonobo]

There is no survey shows that the first word that comes to most people's mind when it comes to Sanders is "socialist".

On the other hand, a survey shows that when people think of Hillary Clinton, most people think of "untrustworthy" and "liar".

http://abcnews.go.com/beta/Politics/poll-liar-frequently-word-hillary-clinton/story?id=33361629

POLL: Hillary Clinton dishonest, untrustworthy



Nearly 6 in 10 think Hillary Clinton is dishonest and untrustworthy, a new poll finds.

In just two months, the number of people who say Hillary can’t be trusted has risen 8 points to 57 percent, according to a new CNN/ORC poll on the 2016 race. Exactly half agreed that she does not inspire confidence, also up 8 points.

The pollster said the unfavorable view of Hillary is now higher than any time since 2001, with 50 percent holding a negative view of the Democratic presidential candidate.

Even though the multi-millionaire is attempting to run a populist campaign and speak to what she calls “regular Americans,” just 47 percent of 1,025 surveyed said they believe she cares about “people like them,” down 6 points.

[Metric System]

1. The Washington Times?

[Bonobo]

8. I changed the link to ABC news. Hope the same info from a different source isn't a problem for you.

no text

[HappyPlace]

29. Strategy Number One: Always attack the source.

First, alert on the OP because of the source, then attack it.

Desperation. It's thick.

[SidDithers]

46. Very cunning. Devious even...nt

Sid

[Romulox]

68. Love your sig! Stealing it (soshialism!!1!) nt

[emulatorloo]

77. Logic 101: Evaluate sources for credibility and trustworthyness

If a source has a history of lying, it isn't trustworthy.

[NuclearDem]

2. I remember a time when DU didn't deal in RW hitjobs against Democrats

[Bonobo]

7. So DU's very own Fox News analyst calling Bernie a "socialist" is more up your alley? nt

[NuclearDem]

10. It's truly scandalous, considering Sanders describes himself as a socialist.

I'm willing to believe Clinton doesn't describe herself as a liar or untrustworthy.

[Bonobo]

14. There is one quote where Sanders said he was a socialist, yes. But he isn't one.

By any meaningful and accurate description of an economic system called "Socialism", Bernie is NOT one.

If you think he is, you need to read more about Socialism.

If you think he is not, but are painting him as one, you are part of the problem.

[NuclearDem]

32. If Quinnipiac did a one-word association poll with Sanders, what do you think people would answer?

Since apparently we're putting stock in those kinds of polls now.

[Bonobo]

36. "Honest", "rebel", etc. IMO. nt

[NuclearDem]

39. And if Quinnipiac surveyed people outside of Daily Kos and the DU Sanders group?

[DanTex]

34. He's described himself as socialist his entire career. It wasn't "one quote".

There's no single fixed definition of "socialism," there are a lot of forms of socialism, including democratic socialism. Socialism doesn't mean USSR.

Bernie is a socialist, by his own words. And that carries electability consequences. It works fine in Vermont, but not in the nation at large.

[Bonobo]

37. Don't be silly. Of course there is a definition of socialism and it's not consistent with Capitalism

SOCIALISM:

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Hang on, let me count. Yup, that a single definition of socialism. You got another one? One that fits Bernie, the supporter of capitalism?

[DanTex]

42. That's one definition. There are others, of course.

The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition: "An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity. There are many varieties of socialism. Some socialists tolerate capitalism, as long as the government maintains the dominant influence over the economy; others insist on an abolition of private enterprise. All communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Definitions_of_socialism

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership and/or social control[1] of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[2][3] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[4][5] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership (achieved by nationalization), citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[6] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

More wikipedia

The word socialism refers to a broad range of theoretical and historical socio-economic systems, and has also been used by many political movements throughout history to describe themselves and their goals, generating numerous types of socialism. Different self-described socialists have used the term socialism to refer to different things, such as an economic system, a type of society, a philosophical outlook, a collection of moral values and ideals, or even a certain kind of human character. Some definitions of socialism are very vague,[1] while others are so specific that they only include a small minority of the things that have been described as "socialism" in the past. There have been numerous political movements which called themselves socialist under some definition of the term; this article attempts to list them all. Some of these interpretations are mutually exclusive, and all of them have generated debates over the true meaning of socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism

Bottom line is, Bernie calls himself a socialist.

[SidDithers]

13. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.

Sid

[truebluegreen]

40. "the fringe left"

yer funny

[SouthernProgressive]

76. They all tell tales of how Ron Paul is right on many issues, just for different reasons.

I'm beginning to realize their reasons for always making that claim aren't because of any differences.

[Motown_Johnny]

17. I remember a time when facts were not considered RW hitjobs.

But then again, I'm old.


If you can present evidence that a majority of Americans feel that Hillary is honest and trustworthy then please present it.

[riversedge]

3. Its the Morning Joe and Mika show on DU--repeat repeat repeat..

[Bonobo]

9. So spreading disinformation about Sanders being a socialist and therefore unelectable is ok? nt

[riversedge]

62. ah, is morining joe saying that also??

[frylock]

80. What's with the Morning Joe obsession?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Now now, we all know they oversampled Republicans.

So it's not really 6 in 10 Americans who think she's a liar, even if 57% of Americans don't trust her.

Still, it would explain why she's getting trounced in head to heads vs Trump and Bush in key states.

[Bonobo]

6. Welcome to DU! nt

[Live and Learn]

19. Agreed and welcome to DU. nt

[ms liberty]

79. Welcome to DU, you make a good point. n/t

n/t means no text below the title line, which I did not do in order to define it's meaning for you, lol!

[Bobbie Jo]

11. And the workweek begins...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I am not twelve years old... I don't see politicians as cardboard saints.

Hillary Clinton is no more or no less honest and trustworthy than your generic politician.

[Bonobo]

15. Weird, so everyone is EQALLY honest and trustworthy...

That is AMAZING! How do you even explain that considering there is variation and gradations in just about everything else!

Damn, Skippy, that is really amazing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. If you believe

Weird, so everyone is EQALLY honest and trustworthy...That is AMAZING! How do you even explain that considering there is variation and gradations in just about everything else!

Damn, Skippy, that is really amazing.

If you believe politicians are paragons of virtue, Skippy, there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

[Bonobo]

23. Nah, I don't believe they are paragons of virtue But...

if you believe there is some magical formula that makes them all equal with regards to trustworthiness, I think you need to try to reconsider your thought process there, Franklin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. No magical formula, Franklin...

No magical formula, Franklin, just a common sense notion that your generic, read garden variety , read run of the mill, read average politician is no more or less honest and trustworthy than his or her counterpart . That doesn't suggest there aren't differences between, say, Richard Nixon and George Washington.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. A majority of Americans think she is less honest than most.

But the real question here is: Should someone no less honest and trustworthy than your generic politician be our nominee, or can we do better?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I disagree with them and I support her as our nominee.

That's my right!!!

[Motown_Johnny]

21. Of course that is your right.

But everyone else has an equal right to yours, and the majority feel that she is untrustworthy and dishonest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.

But everyone else has an equal right to yours, and the majority feel that she is untrustworthy and dishonest.

Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.

In any case Democratic primary voters will decide which candidate is and isn't trustworthy enough to be the nominee and general election voters will decide which candidate is and isn't trustworthy enough to be president.

[Motown_Johnny]

26. Agreed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. We are at an impasse...

I have a paypal account...I will put $500.00 and you put $500.00 in it. If HRC is the nominee I will donate your portion of the pay pal account to the charity of my choice:

http://sabancommunityclinic.org/support-us/ways-to-give

If BS is the nominee I will donate the portion of the paypal account to the charity of your choice.


There is no personal enrichment for either one of us but it will break the impasse.

[Motown_Johnny]

28. Mitt? did you come down from that $10,000 bet?

I am not betting that she will lose. My support, or lack thereof, is not based on the odds. It is based on who I think is best for our party and our nation.

The very fact that you seem to think you are justified in your opinion simply because the odds are on your side is a real problem. How about you make some substantive argument instead of just saying "That's my right!!!" or some other such nonsense. I never disputed your right to your opinion. I just feel that basing it on who you think will win is foolish.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Mitt? did you come down from that $10,000 bet?

Mitt? did you come down from that $10,000 bet?

My wager was considerably less than Mitt's $10,000.00 wager and unlike Mitt I was going to donate the proceeds to charity and not for personal enrichment or for filthy lucre:

Saban Community Clinic, in collaboration with strategic partners, serves as a medical home for the underserved and those who are most vulnerable by providing comprehensive, dependable and affordable quality health care in a caring environment.

http://sabancommunityclinic.org/about-us/mission-and-history

I support Hillary Rodham Clinton for president because as a former First Lady, a former Secretary Of State, and two term senator from one of the nation's most populous and heterogeneous states she has the wealth of experience and temperament to be an excellent president.

[Motown_Johnny]

58. OK then.

First of all, Hillary tried to run on her experience as First Lady. It failed so miserably that she ended up claiming to have run from sniper fire in Bosnia as some type of rationalization for that point of view. She was unable to present anything done as First Lady which could be considered applicable to what would be required of her as President.

We have not elected a former Secretary of State to be President since Buchanan. Being chief diplomat is not considered to be relevant experience for becoming Commander In Chief. If it were, we would be seeing more of them running. The sad truth is that she is now refusing to answer questions about things like the Keystone XL Pipeline because of work she did as Sec. of State. You may believe that this experience is applicable to being President but we have yet to see if that is true. You really have nothing to base that on since we have not had a former Sec. of State as President since 1861 and he is considered to have been one of the worst.

Her most memorable moment as Senator was her 19 minute speech in favor of the use of military force in Iraq. She has no notable legislative achievements and no real achievements of any type from her time as Senator that can be considered applicable experience for someone who wants to become President. The fact that she won 2 elections in a solidly blue state is meaningless. Most any well funded (D) could have won those races. She has very little experience as a candidate in a competitive race and the experience she does have is the one race she lost.


As to her temperament, we can't really know. I can respect your faith in her, but I do not share it. Please watch the last 45 seconds of this video and you will see her make a statement which I consider very telling as to how she handles things when she is not at her best.

Can you really see her answering that 3:00 am phone call?


Some context for my opinion of her as a Senator:

[Romulox]

44. Argumentum ad populum = "democracy". Hope this helps! nt

[NuclearDem]

47. Actually, argumentum ad populum is a fallacy

of stating that something is so just because a certain number of people believe it to be so.

Older polls showed a majority of people believed in creationism; that doesn't make creationism true.

Likewise, Fox News spreading the meme that Clinton is a liar and thus influencing people to believe it doesn't make her a liar.

[Romulox]

48. Election don't determine "truth"--merely whom the electorate prefers to lead. Hope this helps! nt

[NuclearDem]

50. I prefer democratic decisions be made with accurate information.

If that's not your thing, more power to you.

[Romulox]

56. Nice subject change. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Hope this helps! nt

Fallacy: Appeal to Popularity

Also Known as: Ad Populum

Description of Appeal to Popularity

The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
Therefore X is true.
The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.

It is clearly fallacious to accept the approval of the majority as evidence for a claim. For example, suppose that a skilled speaker managed to get most people to absolutely love the claim that 1+1=3. It would still not be rational to accept this claim simply because most people approved of it. After all, mere approval is no substitute for a mathematical proof. At one time people approved of claims such as "the world is flat", "humans cannot survive at speeds greater than 25 miles per hour", "the sun revolves around the earth" but all these claims turned out to be false.

This sort of "reasoning" is quite common and can be quite an effective persusasive device. Since most humans tend to conform with the views of the majority, convincing a person that the majority approves of a claim is often an effective way to get him to accept it. Advertisers often use this tactic when they attempt to sell products by claiming that everyone uses and loves their products. In such cases they hope that people will accept the (purported) approval of others as a good reason to buy the product.

This fallacy is vaguely similar to such fallacies as Appeal to Belief and Appeal to Common Practice. However, in the case of an Ad Populum the appeal is to the fact that most people approve of a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Belief, the appeal is to the fact that most people believe a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Common Practice, the appeal is to the fact that many people take the action in question.

This fallacy is closely related to the Appeal to Emotion fallacy, as discussed in the entry for that fallacy.

[Romulox]

53. "nt" means "no text". Don't worry, you'll get the hang of this! nt

[Sunlei]

38. I think Mrs. Clinton is very honest. President Obama trusts her & so do I.

[Motown_Johnny]

41. You are in the minority. Most of us do not. n/t

[Sunlei]

59. Senador Sanders likes her too. I'd like for them to be VP and Pres., Either position.

I'm sure they work well together over the past decades.

[Romulox]

43. LOLOLOL. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. When you disrespect a stranger from the anonymity of a computer connection

When you disrespect a stranger from the anonymity of a computer connection it says more about you than it can ever say about the stranger.

[Romulox]

51. You need to apply for that moderator position FIRST, if you want to moderate.

Otherwise, your comments will be subject to critique. That's why this is a "discussion forum", and not your personal blog.

Now then, do you have any links for me to follow that contain an insult for me, you pugilist, you?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Not quite a pugilist but I treat people the way they treat me.

I hope my omission of 'nt" has your seal of approval, this time.

[Romulox]

57. LOL. I like how you've turned the definition of "nt" into a personal insult!

Anything you don't understand is likely an insult! See this link!!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I know what "nt" means. In my haste to respond I inadvertently copied it.

It seems finding and then magnifying picayune mistakes on the internet seems to be your forte. Please accept that as an observation and not an insult.

[Romulox]

61. Then admit your mistake and move on. Complaining to others about an error YOU made is silly. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I was merely...

Then admit your mistake and move on. Complaining to others about an error YOU made is silly. nt

I was merely referring to the relish you took in pointing it out.

[Romulox]

64. That's not how quotes work, either. Only the part that *I* said belongs in there. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Your focus on the picayune is losing me.

eom

[Romulox]

66. Demanding I not be misquoted on discussion forum isn't "picayune"--it's basic fair play. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Where did I deliberately misquote you?

Where did I deliberately misquote you? I specifically added 'deliberately' because I am getting lost in the weeds here and in my confusion I might have misquoted you.

[Romulox]

69. Deliberate or inadvertent, *you* made a mistake. Own it, and move on. Or blame others.

Your choice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. Sir, there is a difference between an act of commission and an act of omission.

"To err is human, to forgive is divine." Because at my core I am a kind and loving guy I am giving you your chance to be a deity!

[Romulox]

71. I don't care. You own your own errors. Don't blame others for them. Admit them. Fix them. Move on.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. I made a picayune mistake. Why you want to elevate it to a fatal error is beyond my ken./nt

[Romulox]

73. Misquoting someone is not a minor mistake. It goes to the essence of discussion.

This is my last word on the subject. I find your schtick un-interesting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Where did I deliberately misquote you?

If I deliberately misquoted you I am not too big a man to apologize. Maybe the "nt" threw me.

[Live and Learn]

22. Hah, I love that one word answer for Jeb; "Bush."

[Sunlei]

30. interesting to do dated searches and so easy to see what medias used those words first

[tblue]

33. I don't think she's a liar.

I am offended at this piling on of Hillary. She's very accomplished and very capable. I am a Bernie supporter, but every time I see ad hominem hate and invective directed at Hilllary, my heart goes out to her and I feel compelled to defend her. She's not the monster some portray her to be.

[HassleCat]

35. Can we tone it down?

I support Sanders because I like Sanders, not because I dislike Clinton. I like Sanders because he is very honest and trustworthy, not because Clinton lacks those qualities. I realize this "can't trust Hillary" business is a meme, something promoted by the media. Each new polls feeds into the next one, with plenty of amplification from the infotainment media. Each episode of Duck Dynasty has the public eager for more outrageous behavior in the next episode, and this is the template the media use to attach these "perceived attributes" to candidates. Remember when Jerry Brown was named "Governor Moonbeam" by Mike Royko? The media picked that up and lathered it all over Brown, casting him as some hippie dilatant who dated Linda Ronstadt and smoked pot. Now we see Brown as the first effective governor California has had in years, hardly the image the media saddled him with when he ran for president. The same is true for Clinton. People regard her as untrustworthy and dishonest because that's what the media tell them to think. Repeating this Republican meme does not help Sanders, and only hurts Democrats.

[Romulox]

45. I think she's *sometimes* honest. Like when she's voting for the IWR, or support H1B, or TPP.

The faux "progessive" schtick? Not so much.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Maybe she's starting to "evolve". Then again, maybe not.

[JoePhilly]

74. How about "Rightwing" ... that describe anyone?

It sounds to me as if the media repeats something, people will start to believe it.

Even if it is false.

And sadly, even some Democrats will fall for it.

[emulatorloo]

78. 1563 voters polled, 666 Repub, 647 Dem, and 178 total used 'liar'

I have a feeling a majority of those were republicans.