2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders on Marriage Equality October 23, 2006
Last edited Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4548262/sanders-gay-marriageDiscuss.
UPDATE: Look, I really don't have a problem with Sanders' answer in 2006. He gave a politician's answer; for all I know, he did support full and unconditional same-sex marriage rights in 2006.
But he didn't say that. Could it be because of the fact that he was running for the U.S. Senate seat in his state?
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)His full response was he "did not think that the Federal government should be in the business of overturning Massachusetts or any other state"
Every line that he said was in support of gay marriage (civil unions in the case of Vermont).
I was married in a Civil union myself.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)George W. Bush did support civil unions, yes
And, apparently, The Shrub has officiated a same-sex ceremony in Maine.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Daddy Bush was pro-choice until he heard the voice of his Republican pollster.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)to be able to override states that had civil unions.
your statement, either by design or by accident, suggests that bernie was not in favor of ss marriage, which he always has been
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)I was highlighting the part I thought the op was talking about for people who didn't want to watch the video. Go wag your finger at someone else.
Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #15)
restorefreedom This message was self-deleted by its author.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and leads to the conclusion that bernie is against ssm or wants the states to squash it
an erroneous interpretation
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)Not a long video.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)in 2006 there were still numerous state efforts to take thise rights away, as well as repubs in congress who wanted federal codification of their bigotry.
if bernie wanted that issue to stay in the states at that time, it is because he believed it was the safest way to maximize rights and reduce discrimination
any other conclusion is a misread of his words and intentions.
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)is goody
have a nice day!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)where marriage equality was legal. Good for him, again. Always protecting the people, especially those who need it most.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Vermont had civil unions and California had domestic partnerships (a same-sex marriage bill was passed by the California legislature in 2005 but that bill was vetoed by Governor Schwarzenegger).
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)over ride a state, such as his where Civil Unions were legal, which what the statement you took out of context, was about. We all agreed with him back then. Do you think he should have supported the Feds being able to stop Civil Unions in Vt?
You've had this explained to you now several times.
But if your goal is to try to undermine his excellent record on this issue, 40 years ago when to even talk about support Gay Rights could have been political death, he marched in a Gay Pride parade in his state, not caring one bit what anyone thought or whether or not it would affect his elections.
I think this is a loser for his opponents, his record is so long and so clear, it is pointless to even try. I would think that anyone who sincerely supports/supported Gay rights would be thrilled to know that there were SOME politicians who were fighting for those rights when most were not.
Unless you think he was wrong, then this is a waste of time.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Think again.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)that sanders wanted ss marriage to stay in the states so it could be squashed on a state by state basis, that is erroneous.
he has always been for full equality rights
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)he has always been for full equality rights
The video evidence that I provided says otherwise. Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago was for full equality rights. 2004 Presidential candidates Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun were for full marriage equality rights.
Bernie sanders was not publically willing to go there in 2006...look at the date on that video.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Keep digging.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)while bmus beat me to it on doma , i will add a couple of other historical tidbits
1983 supported the first gay pride event in burlington, vt and helped pass the resolution to declare june 25 lesbian and gay pride day
1984 signed a resolution declaring that all levels of government should support gay rights.
1996 voted against DOMA
I believe all these occurred before the date of your video. Care to try again?
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and a certain person campaigning for a state Senate seat in Illinois was FOR marriage equality even though he was a bit shady when he rescinded that support as his electorate expanded.
At no time in this video does Bernie Sanders say anything like "I support same-sex marriage." There were politicians who were able to say that; hell, the California legislature had even passed a same-sex marriage law by then.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)And this thread is not about Hillary Clinton.
Try again, please.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And comparing candidates' positions on marriage equality will be an educational experience. Any O'Malley supporters want to weigh in? Webb? Chafee?
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Go for it.
As I said, I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter. So posting a video on Hillary Clinton's shadiness on marriage equality (and many other things) proves nothing to me.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You're pretty new 'round these parts, but I see you've jumped right into the fray. Well done, Kev, well done.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and mixing it up, thank you for that complement!
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Sorry, I'm obnoxious that way.
Well, be careful with those hides, for you won't be able to get your message out. Unless, of course, your message is to prove how awful *useless white supremacist liberal* DUers are. You wouldn't be playing that game, now, would you?
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I calls it as I see it at any given moment in time.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)then breathlessly reporting their findings.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)On Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Is that something like playing "race cards"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=592607
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Newbie poster spreading anti-Bernie crap, and now this "race card" comment. Obvious troll is obvious.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Sep 14, 2015, 02:50 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is an example of alert-stalking. Alerter is angry at Chitown Kev because he isn't a Bernie supporter and that is enough to alert and try to get the post hidden. I'm going to be alerting on the results as soon as they come in so that the admins can take a closer look at whoever alerted.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No worse than anything else in the subthread.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i know absolutely nothing about webb
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Why is that?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)of course you're not.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)The pain comes at 2:00 on the video.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)IIRC, he was asked if gay marriage should be extended beyond Massachusetts.
Even then, he was more progressive than Hillary, yes.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)barred federal recognition of gay marriages.
So whatever your game is here, if you try to play the game that Bernie did not support marriage equality in 2006, you've already lost.
BTW, are you gay or transgender?
If not, thanks so very much for your concern anyway.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and never could hide my gayness, actually.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)We have a DU LGBT group, just in case you aren't aware of it.
All are welcome.
SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)I found this thread through a link.
Wow. How can she walk these back?
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You can't dismiss his record because you don't like his supporters.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)in the entirety of his political career.
He has given public statements against marriage equality although I must say that given that Obama was against Proposition 8, technically, he was a little bit ahead of Bernie Sanders on this issue
At no time in this video (and I've looked at the entire debate here, which was quite interesting) does Bernie Sanders say that he supports same-sex marriage rights.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And again, Bernie's vote AGAINST DOMA proves he was for marriage equality in 1996.
Keep digging.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You don't want to go there, trust me.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I blistered Obama about that back in the day, I don't think I have ever been as angry at the president as I was about that brief...and your point is...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And then compared him to Bernie as if he had a better record:
in the entirety of his political career.
He has given public statements against marriage equality although I must say that given that Obama was against Proposition 8, technically, he was a little bit ahead of Bernie Sanders on this issue
At no time in this video (and I've looked at the entire debate here, which was quite interesting) does Bernie Sanders say that he supports same-sex marriage rights.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)you can't even question that, surely.
Well, Bernie wasn't running for President and he wasn't being asked about Proposition 8 in 2008. And don't get me to go there about Obama's shadiness on the anti-Prop 8/anti-gay marriage position, that was bullshit on Obama's part.
But I can fairly assess what Obama's overall record is.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yet you just can't bring yourself to do the same for Bernie, a true champion for lgbt people.
Why is that?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)And as one, I defer to him to choose his own champions.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The original pusher of this meme is also a gay DUer and I didn't pull any punches with them either.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)They're both the same person.
Kev merely posted a vid in his OP of Sanders speaking on marriage equality and LGBT matters, WITHOUT COMMENT... That's not an attack. He suggested a discussion of what Sanders said.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bernie sanders was not publically willing to go there in 2006...look at the date on that video.
whether he supported the extension of gay marriage beyond Massachusetts.
Bernie Sanders said that he thought gay marriage was a "state issue" and he did NOT say that he supported same-sex marriage rights even for Vermont.
By 2006 there were politicians that did give full-throated support for same-sex marriage rights including a majority of the California legislature.
Bernie Sanders WAS NOT one of those politicians in 2006. The evidence is provided in the video.
but by 2006, there were politicians and even presidential candidates that were giving full-throated support to nationwide marriage equality.
Bernie Sanders was not one of those politicians.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Kev pointed out that, as of 2006, that his position hadn't graduated to the point of overturning all marriage laws federally, specifically to impose marriage equality.
Why is this controversial?
Of course, Sanders didn't want the feds to overturn marriage laws in 2006, Bush was in the White House then. There was no way that he could have predicted that Obama would come into office, overturn DOMA and successfully fight for marriage equality.
Sure, later he went from supporting civil unions in the states, to federally mandated marriage equality. His answer in that vid was based on the political realities of the time, one in which he felt (then) that going for full equality would have created setbacks from where they were at the time.
The guy's a politician, he gave a political answer.
I don't see why this a problem to point that out.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There's no problem with pointing out anything but if you want to prove the claim that Bernie didn't support marriage equality in 2006 you need to do better than noting what he didn't say.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and the Feds had already failed to pass a Federal Marriage Amendment twice.
True enough, there was still work to be done on the ground in Vermont to get the Vermont legislature to pass marriage equality.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Which is why this argument irks me to no end.
HC supporters have repeatedly dismissed Bernie's record by claiming it was easy to support lgbt rights because he lived in Vermont.
Trust me, it wasn't.
There was one hell of a backlash against those of us who supported marriage equality.
The anti-civil rights crusaders brought in the big guns and they set up shop. They spent a lot of money trying to intimidate little old Vermont and it backfired on them.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't collateral damage.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and I agree with you, it wasn't easy even though Patrick Leahy supported the CU bill in 2000 as did the mayor of Burlington and, eventually, Bernie Sanders was willing to go on the record.
Howard Dean did not even have a public ceremony for the signing of that historic bill...so we are agreed on this point.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But we danced in the streets anyway.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Wish you could have been there!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I volunteered there for the No On One campaign but it wasn't to be...too soon...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)We need to work on ending all forms of discrimination against lgbt people.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)issued rules that state that sexual orientation discrimination IS sex discrimination and against the law (the EEOC had already issued guidelines to this effect for transfolk)
I would rather that a fully T-inclusive ENDA were passed but big kudos to the Obama Administration for that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I may disagree with him on some issues but I've never regretted throwing all my support behind him in 2008 and 2012.
And poor as I was I sent money to him after hearing him speak at the DNC convention in 2004.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)You began to hear the word about Obama being the first black president around these parts as early as the late 1990's.
In the primary against Bobby Rush that Obama lost in 2000, Obama KILLED Rush with regard to white voters...that's when the national Democrats really took a look at Obama
That's when they redid his state Senate seat and the rest is history.
Many people have said that they never believed that there would be a black president in their lifetime. I didn't believe that...and after that convention speech in 2004...I knew it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I discussed it the next day with coworkers and none of us thought it was possible but we all knew he was going places.
True story: the night he was elected we were camping in the Smokies but stopped at a Walmart to get supplies before heading back to our tent. The closest one was in a black neighborhood and we got there an hour after the announcement was made. I was the only white face in that store but I wasn't the only human with tears in my eyes and a big grin on my face.
I'll never forget it. I only wish my mom had lived long enough to see the first black president get elected.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)the -el and go down to Grant Park but she said that she doesn't like big crowds.
My boss at that time is an acquaintance of Obama from back in the 1990's and he is in a picture near the stage where Obama gave his election night speech.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)civil unions and same-sex marriage.
At that moment in time, it was feeling dangerously close to finding ourselves living in a US that resembled Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's tale".
Bernie was thinking in terms of defending existing rights in the debate.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)His position in 2006 was, based on whatever each state determined, that the country as a whole was not yet in a position to achieve full marriage equality.
At that time, he was leaving LGBT people living in states without marriage equality and civil unions out in the cold, right?
He was making a trade-off in that vid from 2006, by not calling out for a federally mandated marriage equality law, politicians tend to do things like that.
Your point was that Sanders has always been a champion for LGBT rights... No one is disputing this. But if you can't face the fact that he's also capable of making political trade offs, based on whatever situation the country is in at the time, maybe you ought to rethink some things.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Get some actual evidence that he didn't support marriage equality in 2006 and I'll look at it.
Speculation about intent is not proof.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)In 2006, he stood firmly for civil unions as a state's rights issue. In THAT moment, he didn't put a federally mandated marriage equality on the table. Others may have at the time, but he believed in 2006 that he had a good reason to not do that himself.
This isn't a criticism, of the guy, it's an observation that he makes political stands... Stands that are probably going to evolve over time, based on exigent circumstances.
He can change his mind on things, just like any of us. He's another human being.
I think that it's unrealistic to believe that he's always had the perfect position on every single subject in his entire political career.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I know he's not perfect and I don't agree with him on every issue.
I am supporting Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination and I will continue to challenge posters who make false claims about his record.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)That he's a political animal?
That his positions may change as circumstances change?
That perhaps he may feel it necessary to NOT take the most lefty-ish stand any particular issue at all times?
Why are you in this argument? If you don't agree with him on every single issue, what's the point of confronting someone else who's doing the exact same thing?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And they didn't back it up.
Opinions are not facts.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)A position AT THAT TIME of potentially leaving some LGBT people out in the cold while preserving civil unions for others.
Did I mention that he said that 2006?
If he was willing to risk civil unions in some states, for a federally mandated marriage equality law (and, yes, he did point out that he opposed DOMA, but that's just the lowest rung on the ladder before we can get to full marriage equality), then perhaps he should have said it... In 2006, after he was asked that debate question.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm not telling him that he's wrong to have that opinion, I'm simply asking for evidence of his claim.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Because he believed that marriage was a states issue...
So, if that was the case in 2006, what about the states that didn't have either civil unions or marriage equality?
Is this, based on whatever state they're living in, the right to marry is for some and not for others... in 2006?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm not going to try to disprove your theory anymore, I have made my case and if I can't change your mind then so be it.
This kind of debate is exhausting and there are other issues I'd like to discuss here on the DU.
Plus I'm serving my first tour on MIRT and have been neglecting my duties.
It's been a pleasure, MrScorpio.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Anyway, have fun on MIRT and go git 'em, Tiger!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)he's also capable of making political trade offs, based on whatever situation the country is in at the time
actually makes me a little more inclined to vote for Sanders.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)He seems to be a bit more politically realistic than some others we both know.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)whether he supported the extension of gay marriage beyond Massachusetts.
Bernie Sanders said that he thought gay marriage was a "state issue" and he did NOT say that he supported same-sex marriage rights even for Vermont.
By 2006 there were politicians that did give full-throated support for same-sex marriage rights including a majority of the California legislature.
Bernie Sanders WAS NOT one of those politicians in 2006. The evidence is provided in the video.
I don't have much of a problem with Sanders' answer here, actually.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There is evidence that he did - his vote against DOMA in 1996.
You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)the legislature still had to vote FOR marriage equality in 2013.
Sanders COULD have supported gay marriage then. ( At least Sanders didn't lie about it, as Axelrod states that Obama did). But we don't know whether Sanders supported it or not, based on the evidence of that video.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I have proof he voted against DOMA in 1996.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Carol Moseley Braun voted against DOMA in 1996 and supported same-sex marriage equality in 2004 when she ran for President.
Dennis Kucinch supported same-sex marriage in 2008 and had no problem saying it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you could have found something to prove he didn't support same sex marriage you would have posted it.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)For example, Sanders' former senior advisor, Anthony Pollina, was for same-sex marriage when the CU bill was being discussed in Vermont in 2000.
Sanders didn't support Pollina in his gubentorial bid.
Now, Sanders may have had other reasons for not supporting Pollina in 2000 but that CU debate in Vermont was very contentious. People lost legislative seats over that vote.
I simply fail to see how simply posting a video clip of Sanders in a debate for a US Senate seat constitutes "a smear."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And one more time, speculation about intent is not evidence.
dsc
(52,166 posts)John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, John Conyers, and many others. It would hardly have been a unique position.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)and the video is pretty strong evidence that he didn't. He position was basically Kerry's from 2004 when he opposed marriage equality while running for President.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's not my job to disprove your theory.
Take it up with the journalists who did the research and wrote the articles about Bernie because I'm not playing this game with you anymore.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)the last Democrat of name to finally support marriage equality. She was very slow. Hesitant. But I do not run around DU trying to paint her as anti gay. Why? Because she's not and because I for one do not think we have allies to burn. I'm not interested in the stopwatch for Hillary, nor for Bernie but Bernie was way, way ahead.
I sent money to Sanders in the early 90s because he was being very actively helpful to LGBT causes during that very pressing time. I've never even been to Vermont. He had my support because he was giving me his, all those years ago. At that time, Hillary was also taking enormous heat for supporting LGBT causes. Straight folks like that, the early birds who took the heat, I'm not going to try to mar them from our side after they have taken so much flack from the right wing for us. Fuck that.
This thread is a disgrace.
dsc
(52,166 posts)but the fact is no one here or anywhere else has found any statement made publicly supporting marriage equality before Vermont got it in 2009. Now if you have something then bring it forward. But the simple fact is merely voting against DOMA isn't the same as supporting marriage equality. Many politicians both voted against DOMA and were officially against marriage equality. Kerry did that, so did Boxer and so on. Virtually none of the straight politicians who voted against DOMA said the supported marriage equality. If you don't believe me go to the congressional record which I sited twice so you can find the link.
I don't have a problem with having had that position back then. But I do have a problem with him having had that position back then but his supporters saying he had a different position than he did and then being called a disgrace for having the audacity to point out that fact.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)bam.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I know what you're doing and why you're doing it but exploiting lgbt rights in a quest to get even with Bernie's supporters has been done already.
Don't take my word for it, read what a gay DUer thinks of Bernie's support:
Since the man's social justice bona fides are being turned into a weakness by surrogates, and we've been treated to his vast problems with African Americans, women, and now Latinos, I just wanted to get out in front before you see someone like Joe Solmonese on TV telling everyone that Bernie Sanders doesn't care enough about LGBT people.
Bernie Sanders is one of the finest politicians in American history when it comes to LGBT rights. His opponents cannot even compare themselves or their records with a straight face.
So before we experience yet another part of the Democratic coalition divided up as a weapon instead of a valued community, I just wanted to note that Sanders will never have a problem with the LGBT community.
We owe him a lot of gratitude for sticking up for us when it was not the easy or popular thing to do.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251563640
And then there's the fact that his votes prove he was in favour of marriage equality before 2006:
But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Now that he's officially announced he will seek the Democratic nomination for president and challenge Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders will be talking about his positions on major issues on the campaign trail, and one very big issue he has championed for years is gay marriage. Sanders, unlike some of his potential Republican opponents, seems like he would not turn down an invitation to a gay wedding (and he might actually get invited to one).
In 1996, then-Representative Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred recognition of gay marriage at the federal level (DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 2013). Sanders' and his home state of Vermont were the first to legalize same-sex unions in 2000, at first recognizing them as civil unions. Gay marriage has been legal in Vermont since 2009, and as The New York Times reported, Vermont was the first state to pass legislation in support of same-sex marriage, rather than in reaction to a court ruling.
On Tuesday, as the Supreme Court took up the issue of gay marriage, Sanders issued a statement on his website reaffirming his support, saying gay Americans in every state should be allowed to marry.
Of course all citizens deserve equal rights. Its time for the Supreme Court to catch up to the American people and legalize gay marriage.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/79951-bernie-sanders-views-on-gay-marriage-show-hes-been-a-supporter-for-a-long-time
Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving independent member of Congress, is officially seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2016, the Vermont senator announced in an email to supporters this morning.
"People should not underestimate me," Sanders told the Associated Press in an interview that broke the news of his candidacy Wednesday night. "I've run outside of the two-party system, defeating Democrats and Republicans, taking on big-money candidates and, you know, I think the message that has resonated in Vermont is a message that can resonate all over this country."
The self-described "Democratic socialist" wants to challenge the business-as-usual trend of big money in politics that he says dominates the current candidates including Hillary Clinton.
The thrust of Sanders's campaign thus far like his political career as the mayor of Burlington, Vt., 16 years in the U.S. House of Representatives, and the past seven in the U.S. Senate has focused on supporting working-class Americans through elevated taxes on the wealthy and correcting income inequality "which is now reaching obscene levels," he told the AP.
But Sanders has also been a steadfast and reliable supporter of LGBT equality, supporting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act when it passed the Senate in 2013 and even calling on President Obama to evolve already and support marriage equality in 2011. He's a cosponsor of the federal LGBT-inclusive Student Non-Discrimination Act and has consistently voted against bills seeking to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, while cosponsoring a bill that would repeal the remaining portions of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Sanders has a perfect score of 100 percent on the Human Rights Campaign's latest Congressional Equality Index.
http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-most-lgbt-friendly-candidate
And before you whip out the article from sevendays that's already been debunked too, there was no interview with Bernie.
There's no there there, but nice try.
You get a cookie.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)but by 2006, there were politicians and even presidential candidates that were giving full-throated support to nationwide marriage equality.
Bernie Sanders was not one of those politicians.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I know people are still pushing the Not Good Enough Bernie meme but you'll have to do better than speculation.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)but A for gut searing, fly in the face of reality effort
seriously, you are really trying
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)All of the rest, including Obama and Clinton were weeping about Sanctity and preaching civil unions for those wretched gay people. John Edwards was having an affair AND preaching about Sanctity of marriage and those terrible gays.
So name some of these candidates for President, plural that were giving such strong equality statements in 06 or 08 or even 2010. Name them or admit to bullshit manufacture.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)campaigned on it during their presidential runs in 2004.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)the Primary arrived. So that qualifies the use of them as examples of how candidates behaved in 96. They were cutting edge candidates who gained zero traction. Love them for it, but they do not represent the times or the actual contending candidates.
In 08 Obama was 'God in the mix, my dear brother McClurkin, Sanctity, Sacraments, Rick Warren is America's Minister'. Hillary was the same. Edwards was the same only with a mistress and extra talk about his Deacon Daddy.
I am bothered that posters on DU who usually attack LGBT activists are pretending to be on our side in this attack on Bernie, who has always supported us. It's just not right.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)See, I travel the gay blogs where FOR YEARS Hillary Clinton has been compared favorably to Barack Obama, as if Hillary Clinton were better on various issues even during the 2008 primaries.
I don't need for my politicians to be heroes, I need for politicians to be damn good politicians as well as "fierce advoctaes".
There is no need to elevate Bernie Sanders to the throne of civil rights diva-ship that many of his supporters claim for him (and I'm black as well, so...let's simply not go there).
Bernie Sanders is a quality politician (in some ways, remarkable, in fact) who has taken stances that benefit people like me and he is a reliable vote on those issues (unlike Hillary Clinton)
I can research his record and make decisions for myself. All of the Sanders' hagiography that I read on a daily basis gets as nerve-wrecking as some of the Obama hagiography, at least to me.
(As if I, of all people, need for anyone to tell me about Barack Obama, for example).
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Right decisions.... and
Wrong ones too!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)cookies all around, i say!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)A does equal Q just cuz i say so?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bookmark it and don't give up!
Go Bernie!
Zorra
(27,670 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And so do you, Blue.
You have a memory like a steel trap and a real talent for calling out hypocrisy.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I'm sincerely sorry for everything my lgbt brothers and sisters have to endure on DU.
Every single bigot on DU should be ts'd.
There is no excuse.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)first entered politics. You are being obtuse and absurd, perhaps because you are not well informed. That would be your fault. Knowledge is your most important tool in life. Go get some. You claim to be gay but you seem utterly without any roots in the community or knowledge of community history. That's sad.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Off to the ignore list for you.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)My claim was that he wasn't willing to go on the record and say that he supported nationwide same-sex marriage equality in 2006, so I would have to disagree with the diarist on the other thread.
Did Sanders play politics on the issue? Yes, in that respect I would agree with that other diarist.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You've been honest about what he said, Chitown Kev.
I just thought that if people read what was already discussed here they would realize that the other thread is bullshit.
That's why I didn't respond directly to you in this thread because you aren't claiming Bernie opposed same sex marriage.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)The Reuters/Ipsos tracking poll has Bernie leading among the community with 57% of the vote, albeit with a tiny sample size:
http://polling.reuters.com/#!response/TR131/type/smallest/filters/Z27:2|3|4,PARTY_ID_:1/dates/20150808-20150914/collapsed/false
But I'm in the young queer activist community, and Bernie has really caught fire in recent months. A lot of us were OK with Hillary, but Bernie's strong record of support has swayed a lot of people. It seems awfully curious that due to shifts in recent primary support among LGBTQ people, there are now attacks on what makes Bernie so strong in the LGBTQ community.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I've been sick of some of the downright Hillary-worship in the LGBTQ community for years...I mean, she's OK, but some of the over-the top pro-Hillary comments on blogs have gotten nauseating although...I get it.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)But all will need their feet held to the fire. Obama has a great legacy on equal rights, but it took a lot of activist work to get him to make the right moves, and it will no matter who our next President is.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Now, it just wasn't an issue, and like many people hadn't taken a position for or against it. At some point between 2000 and 2009, Sanders came out for SSM.
However, he has a great record from before that of saying there shouldn't be laws against homosexuality in 1972, proclaiming a gay pride parade as mayor in 1985, opposing DADT, and voting against DOMA.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)but not opposing it and supporting is two somewhat different things.
"Supporting" SSM means, at least to me, being proactive about getting it done.
"Not opposing" seems to, to me, rather passive.
jfern
(5,204 posts)I don't know if Sanders has been pro SSM longer than Chafee or O' Malley, but it's clear that of those and Biden, Hillary has been anti-SSM the most recent.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 15, 2015, 04:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Hillary was under constraints as a member of the Obama Administration, even though she gave some fabulous speeches supporting LGBT's and even promoted benefits for her SD employees, etc...still, Obama gets some credit for that.
Biden is all talk now but he, too, voted for DOMA in 1996 and he too, could not say that he was pro-SSM as a 2008 candidate...granted, Biden did "kick Obama's shins under the table" a bit in 2012 but, in reality, Biden is not all that much better than Hillary.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Knock it off.