I am so torn with deciding who I want most

[fadedrose]

I love the Vice President, and I love Bernie...

both very much.

President Obama hasn't given us a clue as to who he prefers...that might influence me...I say might because he might prefer HC, and then I'm on my own again.

[GitRDun]

1. I like both as well

but I would, as of today, prefer Biden over Bernie for just one reason.

Biden has a broad voter constituency and is well liked and respected in Congress.

Bernie has yet to build a broad voter constituency and does not appear, at this point to have many friends in Congress.

There are a lot of other factors to be sure, but until they equalize on this one, I think it's fair to guess Biden would have an easier time governing.

It's too early to tell on Bernie for me....he still has work to do to demonstrate he has broad enough appeal to successfully govern.

[fadedrose]

3. You should have caught his speech at Liberty

The home of conservatism and all things we fear - he was superb, especially in the very difficult Q & A session with the students.

All kinds of topics - diplomacy before war, women's bodies' are their own, dismantling powerful bank conglomerates, taxing the wealthy, help for US trade and manufacturing.

And as someone pointed out in another post, (a conservative minister, I believe) Bernie sounds like Jesus. True, it's as though he writes his speeches plagiarizing the gospels...

But Biden has my heart and I only pray he can do at least 1/2 of what Bernie proposes. He is well thought of all over the world and we have world problems equal to our domestic.

[restorefreedom]

2. i would imagine with his veep

and his former sos, that would put the president in a tough spot.

[azmom]

4. I don't think Biden is running.

His pain was so palpable when he appeared on the Colbert show. I just don't see it.

The energy and the stamina both physically and emotionally that running for the presidency equires, I would think, is tremendous. Biden, just seemed to me, like he was in too much pain.

I may be wrong, but those are my thoughts right now.

[fadedrose]

5. He loves people and campaigning

always has, and he has the dying wish of his son, Beau, and the current desire of his son, Hunter, that he run, plus some of HC's people in the WH who would jump sides to support him.

This may rest with Jill, who seems to have the wisdom of Obama to stay out of this one and support whatever Joe decides.

We are lucky we had him - think about Cheney.

He'd make a hellova Chief Advisor to Bernie. Like Obama says all the time, Joe has his back and Joe is loyal to the end....whoever wins and doesn't use his wisdom, kindness, experience, empathy, and loyalty is a bloody moron.

[azmom]

6. That Colbert interview was tough to watch.

I was almost in tears. I have lots of love for Biden.

[Agschmid]

9. This.

[magical thyme]

7. Biden is very, very different from Bernie. I'm sticking to the issues, myself.

Aside from giving us Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, Biden has been no friend of the people.

Biden authored the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act in 1995. It was used as the basis of the Patriot Act (and explains how that got that monstrosity written so fast; it was done in advance).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_of_1995
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/joe-biden-drafted-the-core-of-the-patriot-act-in-1995-before-the-oklahoma-city-bombing.html

Biden authored the 3-Strikes act.
"His broadest contribution to crime policy was the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, commonly called the 1994 Crime Bill. Written by Biden and signed by President Clinton, it increased funds for police and prisons, fueling a huge expansion of the federal prison population….[I]t also contributed to the rapid growth of militarized police forces that used new federal funds to purchase hundreds of thousands of pieces of military equipment….”

Biden co-authored the act the enabled police depts to profit from civil asset forfeitures.
"In 1984, he worked with Republican Sen. Strom Thurmond and the Reagan administration to craft and pass the Comprehensive Control Act, which enhanced and expanded civil asset forfeiture, and entitled local police departments to a share of captured assets. Critics say this incentivizes abuse, citing countless cases of unfair and unaccountable seizures…."

Biden co-sponsored increased penalties for drugs, including mj.
In 1986, Biden co-sponsored the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which created new mandatory minimum sentences for drugs, including the infamous crack-vesus-cocaine sentencing disparity….

Biden would also play an important role in crafting the 1988 Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which strengthened mandatory minimums for drug possession, enhanced penalties for people who transport drugs, and established the Office of National Drug Control Policy, whose director was christened “drug czar” by Biden."
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/enough_with_the_joe_biden_nonsense_the_real_reasons_why_the_d_c_media_loves_him_but_progressives_should_run_away_screaming/

Biden also was important in passing the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention act.
"The Times also details just how helpful Biden has been to MBNA and the credit card industry. The senator was a key supporter of an industry-favorite bill—the “Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005”—that actually made it harder for consumers to get protection under bankruptcy.

As the Times notes, Biden was one of the first Democratic supporters of the bill and voted for it four times until it finally passed in March 2005....

...[Biden] was one of five Democrats in March 2005 who voted against a proposal to require credit card companies to provide more effective warnings to consumers about the consequences of paying only the minimum amount due each month. Mr. Obama voted for it.

Mr. Biden also went against Mr. Obama to help defeat amendments aimed at strengthening protections for people forced into bankruptcy who have large medical debts or are in the military; Mr. Biden argued that the amendments were unnecessary because the legislation already carved out exemptions for those debtors. And he was one of four Democrats who sided with Republicans to defeat an effort, supported by Mr. Obama, to shift responsibility in certain cases from debtors to the predatory lenders who helped push them into bankruptcy."

http://www.propublica.org/article/bidens-cozy-relations-with-bank-industry-825

[fadedrose]

8. The mood of Washington was different

We hadn't almost gone broke from the crooked bank/Wall Street deals, and before that, the Towers hadn't happened yet...

I thought about some of the things you mention, and I didn't know about all of them, but President Obama did, and yet picked Joe for VP. One has to wonder "how come?". Maybe Biden had a different slant on those items, and when he explained them to Barack, he was forgiven for his Third way politics...

But he's a "poor" man, compared to most politicians, never doing any of those bills for his own profit. That counts. Also, he was not a Washington croney, riding a train home for 36 years. He was in during Clinton's term. Clinton was not one to worry about the 1% having "too much," and he cut welfare for many and gave us NAFTA. And he was in during Bush's term, not a good spot to play Samaritan either.

He did vote for the war. Once I heard him explain how he voted for such crummy people when they were nominated for certain positions, and he said, to paraphrase, that the American public elected the President and he felt that that entitled the President to pick people he didn't like, out of respect to the voters.

It wasn't till Warren and Bernie realized what the hell was going on and woke up the American public, including Joe, I think. Maybe he's too honest to have been suspicious of banks, but no doubt has been enlightened by that pair and their strenuous efforts. He recognizes Warren's appeal and would have to agree to HER conditions if he wants her vote..

Like Obama did with Joe, and gave him a pass, I will do the same if he's the nominee. It's not like he lied about WMD like Cheney.


Income inequality was not as bad as it is now.

[magical thyme]

10. I don't care what the "mood of Washington" was. After the 2008 crash, Biden obstructed Obama

and damaged real people who ended up in bankruptcy due to illness, military service and victims of predatory lenders. Biden has a track record of siding with the credit card and financial industry over their victims.

Mr. Biden also went against Mr. Obama to help defeat amendments aimed at strengthening protections for people forced into bankruptcy who have large medical debts or are in the military; Mr. Biden argued that the amendments were unnecessary because the legislation already carved out exemptions for those debtors. And he was one of four Democrats who sided with Republicans to defeat an effort, supported by Mr. Obama, to shift responsibility in certain cases from debtors to the predatory lenders who helped push them into bankruptcy."

[fadedrose]

11. You win, I can't defend him on these votes

except the President saw something in him that you don't see, and has been very pleased with him.

I love and trust the President, so we'll just leave it there. You did not lose, you gave very good examples, but I'm hard-headed and full of faith in these very nice men...

For the sake of the nation, I hope my faith is not misplaced, and I'm sure you would agree with me on that point. It's your nation too.

[magical thyme]

12. at this point, I'm just praying Sanders wins. I can't deal take corruption in Washington any more

We need a revolution there. Top to bottom, bottom to top, whatever...

[fadedrose]

13. On this we agree

And Warren may have some way of giving us what we want = regardless of who wins. Let's both hope...

Bernie needs an ally, and she's be the one..

[magical thyme]

14. yup. I'm torn between wanting her as Veep and wanting her right where she is, a big, fat thorn

in their sides.

[FSogol]

15. You don't have to decide. The nearest primaries are months away.

What was the candidates do and say, watch the debates, and see what happens.



I'd also recommend laughing at the pitiful candidates on the GOP's side.