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markpkessinger

(8,395 posts)
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 07:07 PM Sep 2015

Bernie Sanders' Gift to the Left: The Recovery of our Moral Discourse

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 01:09 AM - Edit history (1)

The response by an evangelical pastor and Liberty University alumnus to Bernie Sanders' speech at Liberty University, the university founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, on Monday stands as a good reminder that there are, indeed, evangelicals out there who attempt to seriously grapple with the demands of their faith. But the problem remains that far too many evangelical Christians have fallen under the influence of the Evangelical Movement, which is not primarily a religious or theological movement at all, but is rather an opportunistic political movement that masquerades as a religious one and preys upon people who are no doubt sincere, but are also exceedingly gullible and, in some cases, quite bigoted. For the Evangelical Movement, even if not for some sincere evangelical Christians, Jesus and his teachings are reduced to the role of mascot, to be trotted out in support of their bigotries and political ideas. There is perhaps no greater evidence of this than the "honor code" at Liberty, which the pastor mentions and under which students can be expelled for any public statements in support of any candidate or official who supports abortion or same-sex marriage.

Under the influence of the political Evangelical Movement, many -- far too many -- evangelicals have completely lost sight of the notion of collective (i.e., public) morality in favor of a strictly private morality. By doing so, they absolve themselves of any obligation to work towards a more just society (thus making themselves a prime target for exploitation by corporate and big money interests of the GOP).

But it's even worse than that. Even their sphere of individual, private morality has effectively been circumscribed so as to include an obsession with just two issues, opposition to LGBT civil rights and opposition to abortion. Speaking as someone who identifies as a non-evangelical Christian (Presbyterian by upbringing, Episcopalian by adult choice), I have long been baffled at the kind of theology and biblical interpretation required in order to reduce Christianity to a fixation on these two issues. I am not a biblical literalist (nor are most Episcopalians), nor do i believe (as most evangelicals do) in the plenary inspiration of the Bible; I support a woman's right to choose and, as a gay man, support same-sex marriage. But even if I believed every word of the Bible to be literally true, and every word to have been dictated by God, I would be hard-pressed to make a case for a Christianity so exclusively focused on just two areas within an exclusively private sphere of morality. The result has been a perverse, twisted expression of Christianity (if it can even be called that) that bears little, if any, resemblance to any Christianity I have ever known.

What Bernie Sanders speech at Liberty has done, quite remarkably, is to remind at least some evangelicals (those who attempt seriously to grapple with Jesus' teachings, that is), that morality -- even traditional Christian morality -- operates in a collective, public sphere as well as an individual, private one. Hopefully, those whose consciences he was able to move will have at least some leavening effect on those he did not so move.

Finally, though, what Bernie Sanders has done has been to bestow an invaluable gift to the Left as well: that is, the gift of recovery the Left's moral discourse. The political left, understandably eager to distance itself from the hypocritical moralizing of the right, has tended to avoid invoking moral arguments in support of its policy agenda. This has been a huge mistake. By avoiding moral arguments, we have effectively ceded to the Right the entire discussion of morality in a public context. Among many sincere, but not necessarily well-informed voters, this has led to the perception that only the GOP has any moral basis for its arguments (laughable though that notion clearly is). In his speech at Liberty, Bernie showed us how it is done!

48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders' Gift to the Left: The Recovery of our Moral Discourse (Original Post) markpkessinger Sep 2015 OP
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #1
Kick, rec, off to the greatest page with you. nt hifiguy Sep 2015 #2
Excellent! Fully agree!! RufusTFirefly Sep 2015 #3
Yes, but for me it was not just Bernie. I was so jwirr Sep 2015 #4
K&R. Very well said, and I agree. n/t ms liberty Sep 2015 #5
K&R for the excellent post! nt dorkzilla Sep 2015 #6
REALLY good read! Le Taz Hot Sep 2015 #7
The Future doesn't come with out Humanitarian and Moral Obligations to Our Society... KoKo Sep 2015 #8
Your first sentence is what has been on my mind for some time. Dustlawyer Sep 2015 #41
+1 dreamnightwind Sep 2015 #43
Kick! LiberalElite Sep 2015 #9
K&R. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #10
Well said...could not agree more. zeemike Sep 2015 #11
K&R -- The Left has always been more moral than the Right. senz Sep 2015 #12
That makes a whole lot of sense, senz. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #39
Yeah, self-interest is a core conservative value. Maybe "the" core conservative value. senz Sep 2015 #42
Selfishness, it's the GOP Ayn Rand mantra. What happens when there's no one left for them to Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #44
Then they turn on each other. Hierarchical. senz Sep 2015 #45
We continue living our lives from a place of higher reason, love, compassion, joy and unity. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #46
That's just ... right on. senz Sep 2015 #47
It's difficult to find words 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #13
Outstanding!!! Thank you! n/t dae Sep 2015 #14
Progressives Are The Real Christians Yallow Sep 2015 #15
And you've been absolutely right, Yallow. senz Sep 2015 #48
I have Southern Baptist relatives who LOVE Bernie... ReallyIAmAnOptimist Sep 2015 #16
Recommended reading: "The Political Brain" by Drew Westen Scuba Sep 2015 #17
I remember reading Al Gore's book "The Assault on Reason" and he cites a quote Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #18
He also appealed to their sense of morality. Westen cites many cases where D candidates don't. Scuba Sep 2015 #19
Precisely, but he couldn't have done it without applying Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #20
K&R "With malice toward none" nt raouldukelives Sep 2015 #21
And it's the Democratic money class fighting it. ibegurpard Sep 2015 #22
The Democratic Party Establishment.... bvar22 Sep 2015 #35
He has never been afraid or ashamed to speak the truth no matter who sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #23
Truth and honesty. The good attracts the good. ancianita Sep 2015 #37
Yes, it does. I see things turning around as we've all watched in horror sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #38
The Left is often hogtied because they don't want to upset anyone with regard to social justice rhett o rick Sep 2015 #24
Dear Bernie, he's quite a contrast to flamingdem Sep 2015 #25
K & R SoapBox Sep 2015 #26
K & R L0oniX Sep 2015 #27
Very well put. stranger81 Sep 2015 #28
Two issues? staggerleem Sep 2015 #29
Very well said! KNR n/t DirkGently Sep 2015 #30
Very well said! Kudos! denverbill Sep 2015 #31
There's a selfish reason "private morality" focuses so hard on those two major issues: pnwmom Sep 2015 #32
Good thing Bernie always supported lgbt and abortion rights then. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #33
K & R. Very well done. What a gift is Bernie Sanders to this country now. Thank you & Feel the Bern! appalachiablue Sep 2015 #34
I hope it's true and shows through primary wins. ancianita Sep 2015 #36
K & R!!!!!! Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #40

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
4. Yes, but for me it was not just Bernie. I was so
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 07:58 PM
Sep 2015

excited when Occupy stood up and again when the marchers in Ferguson MO protested.

We had missed this kind of action for so long. I remember saying to my sister - finally we are going to fight back. The election of President Obama seemed to call us into the action once again but unfortunately that did not always works so well. I think he was the first step. Bernie gave me the political means to fight back by expanding President Obama's call to hope. By fleshing it out in clear and simple terms. Bernie offers us the actions that need to be taken to get that hope fulfilled.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
7. REALLY good read!
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 08:14 PM
Sep 2015

I like your writing style and your point is dead on about ceding morality to the RWNJs. Bernie handed them REAL morality in that speech.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
8. The Future doesn't come with out Humanitarian and Moral Obligations to Our Society...
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 08:33 PM
Sep 2015

All of our Tech Wonders and Progress have Human Costs. And, we haven't caught up with what those Costs ARE to our Society.

I'm thankful that voices are coming out and Asking Questions on the Left and even a Few on the Right.

Things are not going well in our Society. We are at a Crossroads and we need to Ground Ourselves and Deal with a Future that is Overwhelming for Many.

And, Bernie is Nailing It. Pointing out the Challenges and Problems we need to face going forward.

We have Lost a Moral Compass. And, even Atheists have to have some kind of path they walk in a way of relating to Fellow Human Beings even if they don't subscribe to anything to do with current Mainstream Religions.

Without a Moral Compass of some kind there is nothing but Anarchy. And, we are seeing a bit of that these days and more and more Citizens just "Tune Out" because they cannot tolerate what they see from their long held Original Faiths that have let them down. This holds true for RW Evangelical Christians, Zionist Supporting Jews, Radical Islamic Terrorists, RW Catholics and Mainstream Protestants who declare themselves free of Evangelical Teachings but Silently allow those RW Views to infiltrate their Congregations.

When Religious Beliefs get out of whack with the Human Sufferings they--are supposedly there to address-- then the whole System of Humanity Goes Down.

The Result: War, Destruction, Death, Dislocation, Loss of Family, Homes & Livlihoods all come into play when Religious Fervor takes hold. No matter the Faith which has been distorted and used by People and Governments (who are practiced in Manipulating the Population) along with a Population captured by the Siren Songs of a Mainstream Media/ Military Industrial/Pharma/Wall Street controlled Society who makes Money off of War/Death/Destruction/Misery/Dislocation & Suffering that they PROFIT FROM.

The Time Has Come when this has to be Examined!

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
41. Your first sentence is what has been on my mind for some time.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:44 PM
Sep 2015

The tech wonders that we really don't understand all of the implications of. Going back a pretty good ways to the dawn of television. It has changed many things in human life, one of the most powerful being the ability to manipulate and propagandize most people in a country. It is being used against us in the most evil way and we had little thought to how dangerous of a tool it could turn out to be. We have allowed media ownership to gradually consolidate while at the same time control over regulation over the same media has eroded. There is even a court of appeals case that says it is ok for Fox NEWS to knowingly lie to us because they are not news, but ENTERTAINMENT!!!

Television has enabled religious charlatans to prey on viewers to make themselves rich, and beyond that, given them political clout to weld or sell to political Parties.

That's just TV! What are the implications of the Internet, computers, cell phones, robotics...? One thing is for sure, we need to get Bernie elected and to stand behind him to force the remaking of this country! By that I mean busting up the media and banking oligarchies and setting new rules to safeguard this from happening again. Our public airwaves should never be allowed to be used against us again. No one should be above the law, so officers and directors who have their corporations break the laws need to be prosecuted. They should not be allowed to have the company just pay a fine as a cost of doing business.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
12. K&R -- The Left has always been more moral than the Right.
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 09:00 PM
Sep 2015

The reason for the emphasis on abortion and gays is patriarchy, which is threatened by women having sex without consequence and men adopting the "female role" in sex.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
42. Yeah, self-interest is a core conservative value. Maybe "the" core conservative value.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:01 PM
Sep 2015

And it's funny, I never realized my username sounded like "sense" 'til you put it that way. Hm, sounds kind of like bragging, and I don't consider myself particularly sensible ... though I do try to make sense. And sometimes fail. Oh well, stuck with it now.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
44. Selfishness, it's the GOP Ayn Rand mantra. What happens when there's no one left for them to
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 10:56 AM
Sep 2015

oppress for their own selfishness?

You make a lot of sense, senz

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
45. Then they turn on each other. Hierarchical.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 03:14 PM
Sep 2015

Until then -- which could be quite a ways off in the future -- the rest of us might end up slaves at best, livestock at worst. Best stop their advance while we can.

You make good sense yourself, Dont call me Shirley (dcms?). And thanks!

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
46. We continue living our lives from a place of higher reason, love, compassion, joy and unity.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 04:15 PM
Sep 2015

I wrote this for my kids when they were acting unreasonably as a guide:

"Reason is the voice that tells you what is good."



 

senz

(11,945 posts)
47. That's just ... right on.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 04:26 PM
Sep 2015

Your kids are lucky.

We will need more voices like yours in the coming years. Some of us (like me) get a tad scared when we see where things are going politically, economically, and environmentally, even if some of us (definitely me, perhaps you) won't be around anymore when it really hits the fan. But I worry for the younger generations and the ones to come. It would be nice, so nice, if the story of homo sapiens on an absolutely paradisaical planet could have a happy outcome for all.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
13. It's difficult to find words
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 10:16 PM
Sep 2015

to express how profoundly spot-on this piece of writing is. I spent several years
in the Evangelical bubble, and ended up leaving over the very issues Bernie shouted
from the rooftops, respectfully, at Liberty U.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
48. And you've been absolutely right, Yallow.
Sun Sep 20, 2015, 04:34 PM
Sep 2015

If those who've been turned off or even hurt by fundamentalist/evangelical holier-than-thou intolerance could get acquainted with the Jesus of Matthew, Mark and Luke, they'd love this guy, because he's on their side. I'd like to say he's the original progressive, but holy and wise men and women throughout the ages have espoused progressive ideals, just not in modern-day political terms.

16. I have Southern Baptist relatives who LOVE Bernie...
Thu Sep 17, 2015, 10:40 PM
Sep 2015

...mind you they live in WA...
but hey, they are like the Reddit posting Liberty U alum,
they see their faith as the basis of being Liberals.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
17. Recommended reading: "The Political Brain" by Drew Westen
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:46 AM
Sep 2015
http://www.amazon.com/Political-Brain-Emotion-Deciding-Nation/dp/1586485733/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442573079&sr=8-1&keywords=weston+the+political+brain

The Political Brain is a groundbreaking investigation into the role of emotion in determining the political life of the nation. For two decades Drew Westen, professor of psychology and psychiatry at Emory University, has explored a theory of the mind that differs substantially from the more "dispassionate" notions held by most cognitive psychologists, political scientists, and economists—and Democratic campaign strategists. The idea of the mind as a cool calculator that makes decisions by weighing the evidence bears no relation to how the brain actually works. When political candidates assume voters dispassionately make decisions based on "the issues," they lose. That's why only one Democrat has been re-elected to the presidency since Franklin Roosevelt—and only one Republican has failed in that quest.

In politics, when reason and emotion collide, emotion invariably wins. Elections are decided in the marketplace of emotions, a marketplace filled with values, images, analogies, moral sentiments, and moving oratory, in which logic plays only a supporting role. Westen shows, through a whistle-stop journey through the evolution of the passionate brain and a bravura tour through fifty years of American presidential and national elections, why campaigns succeed and fail. The evidence is overwhelming that three things determine how people vote, in this order: their feelings toward the parties and their principles, their feelings toward the candidates, and, if they haven't decided by then, their feelings toward the candidates' policy positions.

Westen turns conventional political analyses on their head, suggesting that the question for Democratic politics isn't so much about moving to the right or the left but about moving the electorate. He shows how it can be done through examples of what candidates have said—or could have said—in debates, speeches, and ads. Westen's discoveries could utterly transform electoral arithmetic, showing how a different view of the mind and brain leads to a different way of talking with voters about issues that have tied the tongues of Democrats for much of forty years—such as abortion, guns, taxes, and race. You can't change the structure of the brain. But you can change the way you appeal to it. And here's how…

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
18. I remember reading Al Gore's book "The Assault on Reason" and he cites a quote
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:02 AM
Sep 2015

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)

which I have used here on several occasions, "Faith trumps fear, fear trumps reason and reason trumps faith."

I'm feeling like Bernie deftly used reason to engage their faith in overcoming their fear in his address at Liberty.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
19. He also appealed to their sense of morality. Westen cites many cases where D candidates don't.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:11 AM
Sep 2015

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
20. Precisely, but he couldn't have done it without applying
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 07:18 AM
Sep 2015

it to the highest ideals of their faith, in short "what would Jesus do?" (not to mention broadening that message into other faiths as well,) while stressing the Golden Rule over the Golden Calf.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
22. And it's the Democratic money class fighting it.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 09:53 AM
Sep 2015

We continue to shrink the party as long as we follow them. Relying upon racial and ethnic demographics without actually doing anything for them can only last so long.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
35. The Democratic Party Establishment....
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:38 PM
Sep 2015

...has been surviving on unearned Brand Loyalty since 1992.

DURec

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. He has never been afraid or ashamed to speak the truth no matter who
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:09 AM
Sep 2015

it might offend.

That is a quality that is necessary in any good leader. We have not had that for a long time, avoiding issues that are important to all Americans by focusing on just two is a tactic that is dredged up during every election which then turns into the Corp Media focusing intensely on DIVISIONS rather than on the ISSUES.

Just saw it first hand on CNN this morning.

But it's not working as well as it used to. With so many people still suffering from the effects of Wall St's corruption, something those in power don't seem to notice, the people are far too angry to be concerned about religions issues alone.

Bernie is the perfect person to help change this corrupt system and he is doing a very good job of it, attracting even Repubs to his campaign because 'he is an honest man' and he is talking about issues they also care about.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
38. Yes, it does. I see things turning around as we've all watched in horror
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:09 PM
Sep 2015

at how the bad seems to always win. I think the people are recovering from the shock of all that has happened over the past couple of decades and have decided that it's way past time to start putting an end to the greed and the lies and the smear campaigns and all that Dark Money taking over our government.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
24. The Left is often hogtied because they don't want to upset anyone with regard to social justice
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 10:22 AM
Sep 2015

issues.
You can see it here where we leave the discussion of social justice issues to those that have strong opinions, worried that if the wrong thing is said, one will be labelled an "-ist".

 

staggerleem

(469 posts)
29. Two issues?
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 01:00 PM
Sep 2015

I think not - the Evangelicals really have only ONE issue.

SEX! it's DIRTY, and it's acceptable ONLY for procreation. That is the fount from which all decisions flow. End of story. End of policy.

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
31. Very well said! Kudos!
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 03:13 PM
Sep 2015

I especially agree with this:

Under the influence of the political Evangelical Movement, many -- far too many -- evangelicals have completely lost sight of the notion of collective (i.e., public) morality in favor of a strictly private morality. By doing so, they absolve themselves of any obligation to work towards a more just society (thus making themselves a prime target for exploitation by corporate and big money interests of the GOP).


Thinking of it that way, it's funny because although they believe in private morality when it comes to charity versus government assistance, they believe in public morality when it comes to abortion or same-sex marriage. They are perfectly willing to use government to impose their beliefs on others, but not to assist people who need help.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
32. There's a selfish reason "private morality" focuses so hard on those two major issues:
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:21 PM
Sep 2015

the vast majority of men aren't gay, so the prohibition doesn't affect them.

And no man can have an abortion.

So simply by being a man, the vast majority of men can comfort themselves with the thought that it's the "other" who is the real sinner, not them.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
33. Good thing Bernie always supported lgbt and abortion rights then.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:24 PM
Sep 2015

Unlike the woman who's running against him.

Nothing like trying to smear Bernie by using the guilt by association fallacy.

You never disappoint.

appalachiablue

(41,131 posts)
34. K & R. Very well done. What a gift is Bernie Sanders to this country now. Thank you & Feel the Bern!
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:26 PM
Sep 2015

~ If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. ~ Thomas Paine.

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