2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders' Gift to the Left: The Recovery of our Moral Discourse
Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 01:09 AM - Edit history (1)
The response by an evangelical pastor and Liberty University alumnus to Bernie Sanders' speech at Liberty University, the university founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, on Monday stands as a good reminder that there are, indeed, evangelicals out there who attempt to seriously grapple with the demands of their faith. But the problem remains that far too many evangelical Christians have fallen under the influence of the Evangelical Movement, which is not primarily a religious or theological movement at all, but is rather an opportunistic political movement that masquerades as a religious one and preys upon people who are no doubt sincere, but are also exceedingly gullible and, in some cases, quite bigoted. For the Evangelical Movement, even if not for some sincere evangelical Christians, Jesus and his teachings are reduced to the role of mascot, to be trotted out in support of their bigotries and political ideas. There is perhaps no greater evidence of this than the "honor code" at Liberty, which the pastor mentions and under which students can be expelled for any public statements in support of any candidate or official who supports abortion or same-sex marriage.
Under the influence of the political Evangelical Movement, many -- far too many -- evangelicals have completely lost sight of the notion of collective (i.e., public) morality in favor of a strictly private morality. By doing so, they absolve themselves of any obligation to work towards a more just society (thus making themselves a prime target for exploitation by corporate and big money interests of the GOP).
But it's even worse than that. Even their sphere of individual, private morality has effectively been circumscribed so as to include an obsession with just two issues, opposition to LGBT civil rights and opposition to abortion. Speaking as someone who identifies as a non-evangelical Christian (Presbyterian by upbringing, Episcopalian by adult choice), I have long been baffled at the kind of theology and biblical interpretation required in order to reduce Christianity to a fixation on these two issues. I am not a biblical literalist (nor are most Episcopalians), nor do i believe (as most evangelicals do) in the plenary inspiration of the Bible; I support a woman's right to choose and, as a gay man, support same-sex marriage. But even if I believed every word of the Bible to be literally true, and every word to have been dictated by God, I would be hard-pressed to make a case for a Christianity so exclusively focused on just two areas within an exclusively private sphere of morality. The result has been a perverse, twisted expression of Christianity (if it can even be called that) that bears little, if any, resemblance to any Christianity I have ever known.
What Bernie Sanders speech at Liberty has done, quite remarkably, is to remind at least some evangelicals (those who attempt seriously to grapple with Jesus' teachings, that is), that morality -- even traditional Christian morality -- operates in a collective, public sphere as well as an individual, private one. Hopefully, those whose consciences he was able to move will have at least some leavening effect on those he did not so move.
Finally, though, what Bernie Sanders has done has been to bestow an invaluable gift to the Left as well: that is, the gift of recovery the Left's moral discourse. The political left, understandably eager to distance itself from the hypocritical moralizing of the right, has tended to avoid invoking moral arguments in support of its policy agenda. This has been a huge mistake. By avoiding moral arguments, we have effectively ceded to the Right the entire discussion of morality in a public context. Among many sincere, but not necessarily well-informed voters, this has led to the perception that only the GOP has any moral basis for its arguments (laughable though that notion clearly is). In his speech at Liberty, Bernie showed us how it is done!
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, markpkessinger.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)... which may be why I think it's excellent.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)excited when Occupy stood up and again when the marchers in Ferguson MO protested.
We had missed this kind of action for so long. I remember saying to my sister - finally we are going to fight back. The election of President Obama seemed to call us into the action once again but unfortunately that did not always works so well. I think he was the first step. Bernie gave me the political means to fight back by expanding President Obama's call to hope. By fleshing it out in clear and simple terms. Bernie offers us the actions that need to be taken to get that hope fulfilled.
ms liberty
(8,573 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I like your writing style and your point is dead on about ceding morality to the RWNJs. Bernie handed them REAL morality in that speech.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)All of our Tech Wonders and Progress have Human Costs. And, we haven't caught up with what those Costs ARE to our Society.
I'm thankful that voices are coming out and Asking Questions on the Left and even a Few on the Right.
Things are not going well in our Society. We are at a Crossroads and we need to Ground Ourselves and Deal with a Future that is Overwhelming for Many.
And, Bernie is Nailing It. Pointing out the Challenges and Problems we need to face going forward.
We have Lost a Moral Compass. And, even Atheists have to have some kind of path they walk in a way of relating to Fellow Human Beings even if they don't subscribe to anything to do with current Mainstream Religions.
Without a Moral Compass of some kind there is nothing but Anarchy. And, we are seeing a bit of that these days and more and more Citizens just "Tune Out" because they cannot tolerate what they see from their long held Original Faiths that have let them down. This holds true for RW Evangelical Christians, Zionist Supporting Jews, Radical Islamic Terrorists, RW Catholics and Mainstream Protestants who declare themselves free of Evangelical Teachings but Silently allow those RW Views to infiltrate their Congregations.
When Religious Beliefs get out of whack with the Human Sufferings they--are supposedly there to address-- then the whole System of Humanity Goes Down.
The Result: War, Destruction, Death, Dislocation, Loss of Family, Homes & Livlihoods all come into play when Religious Fervor takes hold. No matter the Faith which has been distorted and used by People and Governments (who are practiced in Manipulating the Population) along with a Population captured by the Siren Songs of a Mainstream Media/ Military Industrial/Pharma/Wall Street controlled Society who makes Money off of War/Death/Destruction/Misery/Dislocation & Suffering that they PROFIT FROM.
The Time Has Come when this has to be Examined!
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)The tech wonders that we really don't understand all of the implications of. Going back a pretty good ways to the dawn of television. It has changed many things in human life, one of the most powerful being the ability to manipulate and propagandize most people in a country. It is being used against us in the most evil way and we had little thought to how dangerous of a tool it could turn out to be. We have allowed media ownership to gradually consolidate while at the same time control over regulation over the same media has eroded. There is even a court of appeals case that says it is ok for Fox NEWS to knowingly lie to us because they are not news, but ENTERTAINMENT!!!
Television has enabled religious charlatans to prey on viewers to make themselves rich, and beyond that, given them political clout to weld or sell to political Parties.
That's just TV! What are the implications of the Internet, computers, cell phones, robotics...? One thing is for sure, we need to get Bernie elected and to stand behind him to force the remaking of this country! By that I mean busting up the media and banking oligarchies and setting new rules to safeguard this from happening again. Our public airwaves should never be allowed to be used against us again. No one should be above the law, so officers and directors who have their corporations break the laws need to be prosecuted. They should not be allowed to have the company just pay a fine as a cost of doing business.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)K&R.
senz
(11,945 posts)The reason for the emphasis on abortion and gays is patriarchy, which is threatened by women having sex without consequence and men adopting the "female role" in sex.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)And it's funny, I never realized my username sounded like "sense" 'til you put it that way. Hm, sounds kind of like bragging, and I don't consider myself particularly sensible ... though I do try to make sense. And sometimes fail. Oh well, stuck with it now.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)oppress for their own selfishness?
You make a lot of sense, senz
senz
(11,945 posts)Until then -- which could be quite a ways off in the future -- the rest of us might end up slaves at best, livestock at worst. Best stop their advance while we can.
You make good sense yourself, Dont call me Shirley (dcms?). And thanks!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)I wrote this for my kids when they were acting unreasonably as a guide:
"Reason is the voice that tells you what is good."
senz
(11,945 posts)Your kids are lucky.
We will need more voices like yours in the coming years. Some of us (like me) get a tad scared when we see where things are going politically, economically, and environmentally, even if some of us (definitely me, perhaps you) won't be around anymore when it really hits the fan. But I worry for the younger generations and the ones to come. It would be nice, so nice, if the story of homo sapiens on an absolutely paradisaical planet could have a happy outcome for all.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)to express how profoundly spot-on this piece of writing is. I spent several years
in the Evangelical bubble, and ended up leaving over the very issues Bernie shouted
from the rooftops, respectfully, at Liberty U.
dae
(3,396 posts)Yallow
(1,926 posts)I have been saying this for years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12221614
senz
(11,945 posts)If those who've been turned off or even hurt by fundamentalist/evangelical holier-than-thou intolerance could get acquainted with the Jesus of Matthew, Mark and Luke, they'd love this guy, because he's on their side. I'd like to say he's the original progressive, but holy and wise men and women throughout the ages have espoused progressive ideals, just not in modern-day political terms.
ReallyIAmAnOptimist
(357 posts)...mind you they live in WA...
but hey, they are like the Reddit posting Liberty U alum,
they see their faith as the basis of being Liberals.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)In politics, when reason and emotion collide, emotion invariably wins. Elections are decided in the marketplace of emotions, a marketplace filled with values, images, analogies, moral sentiments, and moving oratory, in which logic plays only a supporting role. Westen shows, through a whistle-stop journey through the evolution of the passionate brain and a bravura tour through fifty years of American presidential and national elections, why campaigns succeed and fail. The evidence is overwhelming that three things determine how people vote, in this order: their feelings toward the parties and their principles, their feelings toward the candidates, and, if they haven't decided by then, their feelings toward the candidates' policy positions.
Westen turns conventional political analyses on their head, suggesting that the question for Democratic politics isn't so much about moving to the right or the left but about moving the electorate. He shows how it can be done through examples of what candidates have saidor could have saidin debates, speeches, and ads. Westen's discoveries could utterly transform electoral arithmetic, showing how a different view of the mind and brain leads to a different way of talking with voters about issues that have tied the tongues of Democrats for much of forty yearssuch as abortion, guns, taxes, and race. You can't change the structure of the brain. But you can change the way you appeal to it. And here's how
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)
which I have used here on several occasions, "Faith trumps fear, fear trumps reason and reason trumps faith."
I'm feeling like Bernie deftly used reason to engage their faith in overcoming their fear in his address at Liberty.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)it to the highest ideals of their faith, in short "what would Jesus do?" (not to mention broadening that message into other faiths as well,) while stressing the Golden Rule over the Golden Calf.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)We continue to shrink the party as long as we follow them. Relying upon racial and ethnic demographics without actually doing anything for them can only last so long.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...has been surviving on unearned Brand Loyalty since 1992.
DURec
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)it might offend.
That is a quality that is necessary in any good leader. We have not had that for a long time, avoiding issues that are important to all Americans by focusing on just two is a tactic that is dredged up during every election which then turns into the Corp Media focusing intensely on DIVISIONS rather than on the ISSUES.
Just saw it first hand on CNN this morning.
But it's not working as well as it used to. With so many people still suffering from the effects of Wall St's corruption, something those in power don't seem to notice, the people are far too angry to be concerned about religions issues alone.
Bernie is the perfect person to help change this corrupt system and he is doing a very good job of it, attracting even Repubs to his campaign because 'he is an honest man' and he is talking about issues they also care about.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)at how the bad seems to always win. I think the people are recovering from the shock of all that has happened over the past couple of decades and have decided that it's way past time to start putting an end to the greed and the lies and the smear campaigns and all that Dark Money taking over our government.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)issues.
You can see it here where we leave the discussion of social justice issues to those that have strong opinions, worried that if the wrong thing is said, one will be labelled an "-ist".
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)Trump and the rest of the morally challenged Republican candidates.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Great post.
Thank you!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)Thank you for this!
staggerleem
(469 posts)I think not - the Evangelicals really have only ONE issue.
SEX! it's DIRTY, and it's acceptable ONLY for procreation. That is the fount from which all decisions flow. End of story. End of policy.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)denverbill
(11,489 posts)I especially agree with this:
Under the influence of the political Evangelical Movement, many -- far too many -- evangelicals have completely lost sight of the notion of collective (i.e., public) morality in favor of a strictly private morality. By doing so, they absolve themselves of any obligation to work towards a more just society (thus making themselves a prime target for exploitation by corporate and big money interests of the GOP).
Thinking of it that way, it's funny because although they believe in private morality when it comes to charity versus government assistance, they believe in public morality when it comes to abortion or same-sex marriage. They are perfectly willing to use government to impose their beliefs on others, but not to assist people who need help.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)the vast majority of men aren't gay, so the prohibition doesn't affect them.
And no man can have an abortion.
So simply by being a man, the vast majority of men can comfort themselves with the thought that it's the "other" who is the real sinner, not them.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Unlike the woman who's running against him.
Nothing like trying to smear Bernie by using the guilt by association fallacy.
You never disappoint.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)~ If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. ~ Thomas Paine.