What we need is a leader who will spark a congressional insurrection against their corporate donors.

[reformist2]

Last edited Sat Sep 19, 2015, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Obviously Bernie is saying all the right things, and means what he says. But what makes him so good, imo, is that he dares to be different, and has the ability to inspire and encourage other politicians to do the same.

Perhaps the biggest thing that needs to be done is for all these bought-and-paid-for politicians - both Repugs and Dems alike - to throw off the shackles of corporate influence and for once in their lives do something for the American people that goes against what corporate America wants them to do.

What I'm talking about is getting money out of politics entirely - public funding of elections, automatically free airtime/internet ads for all qualifying candidates. And of course undoing Citizens United in the process.

It can happen, and I think Bernie can inspire that idealism even among this gang of corporate congesspeople. It will still be a longshot, but at least with Bernie we know the odds won't be zero. And better than zero is good. It means there is hope. Real hope.

[JoePhilly]

1. How would a President Sanders have "sparked" a Joe Lieberman?

Or, feel free to name some specific Republicans you think President Sanders can "spark" into changing.

[Ed Suspicious]

4. President Sanders appeals to the congresspeople's constituents to vote the money-grubbers out

who continue to place monied interests above the interests of their own, but I think you knew that.

"The power of the presidency is the power to persuade." ~ Richard E. Neustadt

[JoePhilly]

6. So he can't is what you are saying.

The idea that any President, even Sanders, can talk Republican Congressman into rejecting corporate money is ridiculous on it face.

[Ed Suspicious]

8. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. And what you're so cynically saying

appears to be that it's a lost cause so it doesn't really matter who we place in the Whitehouse. Corruption as usual. Fine. Might as well vote for Sanders.

[JoePhilly]

10. No, I'm saying that no President can "talk" congressman into changing.

Some people, wrongly, thought Obama would somehow be able to "talk" Republicans into changing.

How did that work out?

Sanders will do no better because no President is going to be able to "talk" them into changing.

[TM99]

16. Have you ever seen Sanders speaking out?

Watch videos of him calling out the GOP bigots to their faces on the floor of the House during DADT debates.

Sanders would have made sure Lieberman did not play the games he did. He would have pushed him. and pushed him hard. He would have called him out in public in order to 'persuade' him. He would have acted more like LBJ and less like Obama.

Obama believes more in bi-partisanship than he does in pushing for a progressive Democratic agenda. That is abundantly clear now towards the end of his presidency.

[JoePhilly]

18. LOL ... where was Sanders during the ACTUAL ACA battle?

You guys absolutely kill me.

How was Sanders going to "push" Lieberman? Please be specific. Do you really think the power of his oratory would "push" Lieberman, or any Republican to do jack shit??

When the RW claimed that some on the left saw Obama as a Messiah, I mocked them.

Now, I listen to some of you, making arguments like the one you just made, and it starts to make sense where they got the idea.

[TM99]

19. Were you born rude,

Last edited Sat Sep 19, 2015, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

or did you hone your skills on DU?

Obama found the fire to push for the TPA and TPP and mustered the votes. Sanders would do the same but instead of doing it for the neoliberal bullshit, he would be doing it for the progressive policies he is campaigning on.

Would he wave a fucking magic wand? Hell no. Did he clearly state that we the people are going to have to be willing to fight for this once he is elected? Fuck yes. Will he abandon the progressive base as Obama did after he lied to get elected? Definitely not.

Read up on LBJ. Watch some of Sanders' debates, filibusters, and congressional speeches.

Stop being such a rude individual and maybe we can discuss it further.

[JoePhilly]

21. Don't babble about Obama and the TPP, which has yet to pass.

Try to focus.

You can't come up with a single, meaningful political strategy, that Sanders could use to achieve the outcome that you claim he'd have no problem achieving.

And complaining about Obama does nothing to advance the notion that a President Sanders would some how convience Republicans in Congress to do anything they did not already want to do.

As for rudeness, yes, I guess I learned that from some of Bernie's more aggressive fans on DU.

[TM99]

22. Well the only rude person

in this thread currently is a Clinton supporter.

Try to focus?

Don't babble about Obama and TPP?

No Joe, you are rude all on your own. Your projection is glaring.

Welcome to Ignore.

[LWolf]

2. How different

would Congress look...how differently would they operate, if they were representing voters instead of big money donors, if they didn't have to fear their big money campaign contributions drying up for working for the 99%?

I think many of them will welcome the opportunity to shrug off those corporate chains, given the opportunity. I'm sorry that they don't have the courage and integrity to publicly support the current candidate who can help them make that happen.

[HooptieWagon]

3. Congress isn't going to cut the corporate umbilical cord.

They are paid well to serve their masters...both in office, and afterwards. It's up to us to throw them out, and limit their access afterwards.

[reformist2]

13. If we the people do it, it will take decades. There aren't enough inspiring leaders in every distric

What is more likely to happen is that a few great leaders like Bernie can awaken that altruistic spirit in the congress. Of course they are corrupt, but they are still people. Sure they can be bought, but they can also be shown the light again. And all we need is for them to see the light just one time, for one vote. What it will take is for a core group to lead the way, and then grow that number large enough to get to that proverbial "tipping point", and then change just suddenly happens. And when we drive money out of politics, we get our country back. It will be almost impossible for corporations to regain control when their money becomes irrelevant.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Nothing like that can happen until Citizens United is overturned.

That has to be the first step: That case, which unfortunately is now the law, says corporations have the right to free speech, and that therefore they can buy all the free speech they want. As long as the law says money = speech no other meaningful campaign finance reform will be possible, no matter how much Bernie or anybody else "inspires" members of Congress.

[reformist2]

14. The congress can overturn it - we don't have to wait for the stupid Supreme Court.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. No, it can't. We do have to wait for the Supreme Court

or for a Constitutional amendment, which is almost impossible. Congress can't "overturn" a Supreme Court decision. All it can do is enact another campaign finance reform statute, but that statute could not conflict with the holding in Citizens United - in other words, it would still have to permit corporations to use money as their form of "free speech." If Congress attempted to enact a statute that tried to do what Citizens United forbids, the court would declare that statute unconstitutional as well.

[leftofcool]

20. Political Science 101. No they can't

[HassleCat]

7. Progressive insurrection

The last time it happened, a significant number of politicians dared to join. This time, I'm not so sure. Corporate America has them suckling at the bloated teat, and campaign finance regulations allow them to store up millions and convert it to personal money when they leave office. Pubic funding of campaigns is the answer, but it would cut off the big money, paying the spouse $100k a year as a special assistant, handing out patronage jobs to friends, living on the campaign expense account, raking in speaking fees from friendly think tanks, and so on. It's a gravy train. If Sanders continues to do well, maybe others will look at his example and decide progressivism isn't so bad, after all.

[reformist2]

15. I think history is made by a few great leaders inspiring lots of otherwise unremarkable people.

We just need to promote a few great people to lead the way, and they will reawaken that idealism in others. Most of these congresspeople are corrupt, but we can win them back. You just know more than half of them would love to just say, "Well fuck this, I'm sick of spending my life kissing the asses of these CEOs - I'm voting with Bernie for public funding of elections!"

These kinds of "Declaration of Independence" moments are obviously very rare, but they do happen. Why not now?

[99Forever]

9. Correct.

Bernie isn't a magician that can make it ALL happen, but he IS our voice to start the Revolution. Bernie IS what candidate Obama pretended to be.

Anyone who tells you differently, is either your enemy or is just another hopeless surrender monkey.

Ignore them, move forward in spite of their bullshit.

Feel the Bern.

[Ed Suspicious]

11. This. /\

[reformist2]

23. If we want big changes, we have to be prepared to be scoffed at - at first.

[Hortensis]

12. Regarding the House, especially, we've elected a lot of rapacious garbage

who are there as a first-step career move to real money. I've read that a problem for a bunch of donors, presumably the smaller ones, is that their crooks don't stay bought and hit them up for more. No doubt, the first time it was expedient, any of those would seek Bernie shelter to stay in office. So there would be some, but hardly an insurrection -- they'd still be for sale.

A few of the wingnuts on the right might find a switch to him pretty easy, too, as some of their perpetually angry constituents are getting interested in him, but they'd be very unreliable.

I'm afraid that both groups would be likely to cause endless trouble. Like the TP faction -- I really hope none of those cross over. Better they keep hogtying the GOP if they can't be kicked out of office entirely.

That said, I do feel you're right that there have to be some good democratic representatives who would love to be able to do better during a reform era lead by Bernie.