If you think the Hillary is GOP lite, then you have no idea what the GOP is.

[DanTex]

I have to wonder whether people calling Hillary GOP lite have watched any of the GOP debates, or even seen an interview with a Republican.

The GOP wants to get rid of Obamacare and take away health insurance from millions. They want to get rid of Dodd Frank and deregulate banks. In fact, they want to deregulate everything. They don't believe in global warming. The want mass deportation. The want abortion to be a crime. They want to be able to legally discriminate against gay people. They all buy into supply-side economics, meaning tax cuts for rich people and fiscal austerity. They are against raising the minimum wage, in fact many want to get rid of it entirely. They want to destroy unions. They are unanimously opposed to the Iran deal.

Did I miss anything? Yes, I missed a lot of things, but you get the idea.

None of the leading Dem candidates remotely resemble the GOP. If you think so, you don't know the GOP.

[senz]

2. Bottom line: the GOP is sponsored by and in service to the 1%.

'Nuff said.

[Scootaloo]

3. Here's the thing, DanTex...

Your list of the Republican's goals is spot-on.

And Clinton wants to be all bipartisanship, compromise, and "Warm Purple Sauce" with all of that. She looks at that laundry list and says "Well, I can definite cut a deal with 'em!"

I find that deeply problematic.

[Hoyt]

9. Well, she would be President of the entire country, no matter how disgusting

a significant portion is. Fact is, roughly 50% of the country believes right wing bull. They deserve some consideration by Democrats, but not too much.

[Hortensis]

20. How...unusually balanced, Hoyt. Good for you. It doesn't sound as if you would PREFER

to LOSE EVERYTHING to the right wing, to sacrifice every goal and every principle, rather than compromise even a bit. And to acknowledge that one's fellow citizens should be considered. How democratic. How decent and responsible.

[Fred Sanders]

4. A "Third Way Democrat", whatever that means, is about 300 years ahead of anyone in the neo-GOP.

Golden Dawn of Greece seems to be their new model.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. I think Clinton is a center-right corporatist establishment Democrat.

Most certainly the loons on stage at the clown show are way to the right of Clinton. So what?

[Chan790]

7. ...and as recently as 1992, she'd have probably been chased out of the Democratic party for it.

I'm not sure what Dan's point is in ignoring the Clintons' direct culpability in the rightward drift of the Democratic mainstream.

[DanTex]

11. 1992 was Bill Clinton's first victory, and Hillary has always been more liberal than him.

You think Hillary would have been chased out of the party that just won the presidency with Bill?

[artislife]

19. She wasn't in the party as a candidate then

She was the wife of a candidate, like Tipper Gore. I don't think anyone would have chased a mere voter.

[Hortensis]

23. Whatever, the time of the Third-Way Democrat is OVER. Done.

Thank goodness.

[DanTex]

10. I see her as center-left, but I guess that depends what "center" means.

But regardless of how we calibrate the spectrum, the "GOP lite" thing is totally false.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. That is because you use the term "center" to mean half-way between republicans and democrats.

Just because the Republican Party has moved way to the right doesn't change where the ideological center is. To illustrate: health care policy. Clinton wants to keep our privatized system with the ACA reforms. Sanders wants to change that to a universal single payer system. Sanders is advocating the standard Democratic Party position for all of my life up until Bill Clinton - expand medicare to everyone. Clinton and Obama support Bob Dole's center right alternative - government subsidized private healthcare. The Republican Party, meanwhile, abandoned Bob Dole's alternative to medicare for everyone and is advocating "pay for your own fucking doctor and leave us alone". That doesn't make Clinton's position on healthcare suddenly center-left, it continues to be the center-right position it was when it was Bob Dole's proposal.

[DanTex]

17. I think by that standard she would be just plain left.

Based on her voting record, she was on the liberal side of the Democratic party.

On healthcare specifically, a public-private hybrid system is a perfectly viable way to achieve universal coverage. It works out in many other nations including Holland, France, Switzerland, etc. Obamacare doesn't get us there, but it provides an avenue to getting us there if we gradually improve it. The fact that it was a Republican plan 30 years ago doesn't matter to me. What matters is actually getting universal coverage and cost control.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. I have no problem saying Hillary is Center Left - on today's political spectrum anyway

She might have matched the Republican Lite label if today's Republican Party were more like it was back in the Nixon to Ford days. Hillary had among the more Liberal voting records when she was in the Senate. The thing is though that Bernie has always voted like a New Deal Democrat - he never drifted to the Right.

[Hortensis]

24. Good perspective on today's reality.

[Ron Green]

8. She fights them on the Culture Wars, not so much on the Ruling Class.

And TV loves covering the Culture Wars.

Not so much the Ruling Class.

[DanTex]

12. That's simply not true. She wants to raise the minimum wage, they want to get rid of it.

She wants to expand union rights and employee free choice, the GOP wants to kill unions. She wants to raise taxes on the rich, the GOP wants to cut them. They want to kill Obamacare and Social Security, she wants to protect and expand them. And so on.

On economic issues as well as social issues, across the board, there is a massive difference between Hillary and the GOP.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Clinton has refused to support the $15 min.

[DanTex]

18. She's for $12, which would be the highest inflation-adjusted ever.

This is GOP-lite?

[Warren Stupidity]

21. It is you being dishonest about her support for the campaign to raise the min.

She is doing her triangulation thing, undermining the growing support for 15 by using her bully pulpit to advocate for less than that, and signalling that a Clinton presidency will be to the right of the democratic base.

[DanTex]

25. Huh? She wants to raise the minimum wage, period.

The only thing different is the target. Like I said, $12 is a historical high, inflation-adjusted.

How this is "GOP lite" when the GOP either wants to keep it low or else get rid of it entirely is beyond me. I think you are letting your animosity for Hillary get in the way of your judgement.

[Hortensis]

27. No, he's really not. Interesting how willing some here are to keep the minimum

wage at poverty level rather than compromise on an achievable level. I'm guessing those people don't live on minimum wage themselves.

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

37. And she lied to Ready for $15

people that she would support that.

That's one of many reasons I am not selecting her for my nominee for President.

[artislife]

22. YES!!!

We should be talking $22 but $15 is the compromise.

[DanTex]

26. So does that make Bernie GOP lite also for only advocating $15?

[artislife]

30. Not in comparison to Hillary

You see, we are debating between 3 candidates for the Democratic Nominee. O'Malley, short of a miracle is out and Biden isn't in it, so really we are comparing Hillary and Bernie. Guess what? She is the Democratic Lite version and the Republican Lite version. Bernie is Democratic and the Republicans are Republican.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

As far as advocating for $15 it is the furthest towards equitity that anyone is suggesting...so he is ahead of the pack. Hardly the definition of lite anything. He is full bodied!

[DanTex]

33. It's got nothing to do with comparing him to Hillary. If you conclude that Hillary is GOP lite

for not raising the minimum wage far enough, then you must conclude that Bernie is also GOP lite, because he doesn't raise it far enough for you either. Which also means Bernie is the "lesser evil" and all that other nonsense.

[artislife]

40. Bull, but I would rather not build your count numbers any higher. nt

[Gloria]

67. The magic $15 doesn't work across the board

It would put our local NM business out of business...

There are wide differences in cost of living, types of jobs in areas, etc...

really need to get more info

[Warren Stupidity]

16. She was happy to not fight them on lgbt equality until it became politically

expedient to stop doing that.

[Hortensis]

32. She started ACTIVELY supporting equality when a majority of Americans did,

although still well before it was possible to get equality passed in most states.

This is how representative democracy, of government by the people, for the people, and by the people, usually works. Change occurs when enough people want it.

[Persondem]

14. Exactly!! K&R. nt

[Walk away]

28. She's not going to magically make every branch of the government...

into Socialists so that must mean she is the secret Evil Queen of the GOP!

There was a time on DU where this remark wouldn't need a smilie. Now....who knows?

[Gothmog]

29. Hillary Clinton is no republican lite and is a Democrat

[RBInMaine]

31. The mega-left is about as off the rails as the TeaCrazy RePukes.

Progressive is one thing. Then there is the mega-left. Paranoid. Very extreme. Willing to say crazy shit like "Hillary is right wing and a Republican." and other crazy crap. They're the fringe. No point trying to argue with them. They are the TeaLEFT.

[Ron Green]

34. I think your post indicates how far the "center" has been moved

over the past 35 years.

[Roy Ellefson]

39. yep

now us FDR Democrats are paranoid, fringe...very left wing.

[Recursion]

61. No, the paranoid fringe called FDR a JP Morgan loving fascist

FDR was the corporatist lesser of two evils to hear the fringe from the 1930s. Just like actual liberals like Obama and Clinton are excoriated as crypto-conservatives by the equally unhinged fringe today.

Here's Pete Seeger accusing FDR of felating J P Morgan:

(Note he still played bluegrass-style at this point rather than clawhammer; this is just about the earliest recording of Seeger there is.)

[Roy Ellefson]

63. actually that supports my point

it supports my point in how far to the right the Democratic Party has moved on economic issues. The left back in FDR's day really were socialists. To pretend that Obama and HRC are economic liberals (no I'm not referring to classical liberalism) is silly...they are as centrists as they come with a few bones thrown to the working class. Still waiting for Obama to put on some comfortable shoes and walk a picket line.

[Recursion]

66. OK, but Pete was explicitly toeing the Stalinist line here

If that's something that's gone from the Left I'm rather glad about that.

[Roy Ellefson]

69. true

they were naive and stupid about the Soviet Union..chalk that up to idealism...that being said they remained lefts and socialists

[DisgustipatedinCA]

57. I'm surprised to see this and your other posts today.

I had always thought more highly of you.

[leftofcool]

58. +1 and then some

If the mega-left aren't whining about more debates, they are whining about something Hillary "didn't" say. Makes me wonder why they care about her so much. If you aren't going to vote for her anyway, why do you give a shit what she does or says?

[treestar]

65. +1

Completely unhinged.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Kinda like comparing being run over by a logging truck or a VW.

One will probably kill you outright. The VW may have back up and repeat to do the job.

I'm sticking with the bicycle...aka Bernie....or some other candidate rather than either the truck or (not as bad) VW.

[rhett o rick]

42. Good analogy. nm

[cheapdate]

36. Word.

[Broward]

38. The only way to reverse course is to attack from the left not compare to the right.

We can't give her cover because she's to the left of today's Republicans. Otherwise, we only enable the ongoing rightward drift of both parties.

[rhett o rick]

41. Not saying that H. Clinton is GOP but will say that the Third Way, while yielding some

for social issues, do agree with the GOP on lots of issues like:

Fracking

The TPP

Wars in the Middle East

The XL Pipeline

Arctic Drilling

NSA/CIA domestic spying

Drone killing

[stupidicus]

51. but that's the point ain't it?

selective misuae of the issues?

Of course those that level the charge against her do so with specific issues of that kind in mind...

[rhett o rick]

53. Of course. I think she sympathizes with the 99% but not to the point of harming the 1%.

The key is wealth inequality. If that's allowed to continue at the current rate, the 99% will soon all be paupers and have zero political power. I do not believe that she will hold the wealthy 1% accountable. Her comments so far about the wealth inequality have been aimed at "growing the economy", which won't help and having the middle class pay for programs for the poor.

[stupidicus]

54. good assessment

that she's better than any repub isn't and never has been up for debate, and is the foundation for the good cop role she plays in the good/bad characterization of DC politics.

Will Bernie play that game as she has?

To his supporters he represents at least a small break from that game and hope for a burying of it.

Hillary represents the use and perpetuation of it...

[MannyGoldstein]

43. Well, she's to the right of this guy:

So we can frame it many different ways, but one of them ain't that she stands for traditional Democratic values.

[stupidicus]

52. lol

too funny

[jfern]

44. Hillary is at least as conservative as GOP from 1940 to 1980

[redstateblues]

46. What about from 1900 to 1940?

[colsohlibgal]

45. The Middle Now

Is not where the middle is now. The whole political baseline has moved hard right.

We need to move it back hard left and that sure is not Hillary. It is Bernie, and that is why he is surging.

[jkbRN]

47. There is no doubt in my mind

that she is a centrist, which is why I will not be voting for her in the democratic primary.

[iandhr]

48. How dare you.

You are speaking facts. DU is a fact free zone when it comes to Clinton and the President.

[stupidicus]

49. so what you struggle with the "lite" concept, eh?

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/02/10/is-hillary-clinton-a-neocon-lite/


the rest of us will try to overlook it.

I suppose that's supposed to be what, a good substitute for a detailed comparison against her promary opponent/s?

[highprincipleswork]

50. What's Up With 6 Debates????

6 debates makes no sense, especially considering the horrible times that the DNC has scheduled them.

The more Debbie Wasserman Schultz tries to explain the rationale, the more it sounds like the fix is in.

Less debates, less exposure for lesser known candidates, less opportunity for the best candidate to emerge.

I am Democratic and have voted that way for over 40 years.

The best way to get me to not vote for the Democratic nominee is to have a rigged system. If this 6 debate system and othe shenanigans do not stop, it's going to be hard for me to support the Democratic nominee.

I doubt that I am alone.

[RichVRichV]

55. The power structure of the Democratic party is where the Republican party was 30 years ago,

at least economically. Just because the Republicans of today are so much more right does nor change that fact.

Everything is relative.

[SusanCalvin]

56. Oh absolutely, but

Just because she's not insane doesn't mean she's not corporate.

[HooptieWagon]

59. Hillary WAS a Republican...

...when she was a Goldwater Girl.

[TheKentuckian]

60. Not being a neoBircher does not exclude one from being conservative and even reactionary in areas.

I can think of this guy that pushed through the largest expansion of Medicare in a generation, favored comprehensive immigration reform, pushed two stimulus programs through, and more than one major unemployment extension.

That fella was arguably the worst President in US history and clearly a far right wing ideolog, the fella is George W. Bush.

All kinds of fucked up people are to the left, even well to the left of the current radical regressive delusional nutjobs. It is hardly a useful standard candle.

What the hell are Reagan, Nixon, and Goldwater sensible centrists?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

62. Centrists can be Democrats

[treestar]

64. I agree; that meme is just insane

Completely unhinged.

[NCTraveler]

68. Spot on.

One of the exciting things about Sanders is the new people he is bringing in. One thing that comes along with that are less than well thought out political comments. Gently nudge them in the right direction. Some we can keep around in the party after the primaries. The isolationists and libertarians will remove themselves from our side after the primary.

[Jamaal510]

70. She's so GOP-lite/3rd way/etc. that the GOP & ordinary RWers hate her. eom