(The Hill) DNC's new meme is Bernie is "unelectable"...really? Never would have guessed.

[RiverLover]

Democrats: Sanders unelectable
9/19/15

The surging popularity of Sen. Bernie Sanders has done little to alleviate the chief concern that Democrats have about his presidential bid: Namely, that he's simply unelectable on a national stage.

The Vermont Independent has quickly closed the gap on frontrunner Hillary Clinton in national polls, while overtaking the former State secretary in the early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire. Supporters say his rising momentum and populist message will carry him to the White House.

....snip...

Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas), who has not endorsed a primary candidate, said Sanders is doing "a great job" bringing the Democrats' policy agenda into the public eye. But he's concerned how the "socialist" label attached to the senator will play in a national election.

"The fact that he's been on that ticket raises some questions in other parts of the country: 'Can anyone who has ever had that label as an official candidate, as distinguished from an Independent, [win]?'" Doggett asked. "That's a question that many of us have had."

The doubts surrounding Sanders' electability are hardly universal. A growing number of lawmakers are pushing back as Sanders gains prominence in the race.

Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), a 2016 Senate candidate who has not endorsed a primary contender, characterized Sanders as one of Congress's most effective legislators, saying all claims that he's unelectable are "politically motivated attacks" designed to undermine his bid.

"Bernie has the appeal of being able to demonstrate to people that he can get good things done. He is not some kind of liberal stick figure; he's someone who has a record of actual accomplishment," Grayson said. "If Bernie's the nominee, then Bernie very likely will be the next president of the United States."

Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.) echoed that message, warning that Democrats, by doubting Sanders' viability as a candidate, risk undermining the party's agenda.....

Full story here (or just read the posts here at GD: P)~
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/254280-democrats-sanders-is-unelectable

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. So was Truman in '48.

[RiverLover]

6. Thank you.

Excellent reminder.

[movonne]

30. the fix is in.....

[HereSince1628]

39. Fixisin? No, it's political toxin; typical campaign spread alleleopathic toxin

It's all part of situation normal as the party poobahs try to keep the party headed in a poobah serving direction.

The party is set-up to contain insurrections against the will of the grand poobahship.

[PosterChild]

36. So was Truman a...

... a socialist ? Was he even an anti-establishment candidate ? I don't think there is a useful analogy here .

[JDPriestly]

49. Hillary and all of the Republican candidates are corporatists.

So we have a choice been corporatists (many in denial about it because it sounds really bad) or a democratic socialist.

I would wager that Americans will prefer the democratic socialist to a corporatist any day.

I am not a socialist, but Bernie's proposals don't sound very much like the socialism I learned about in school.

What is more, I lived in several European countries for a number of years (my husband was teaching over there in their schools and doing other jobs) and I liked it.

There is a huge difference between Communism and socialism.

In Communism, companies are owned by the government, the news is censored or controlled by the powerful, reporters who don't follow the party line get cold-shouldered by official sources, and the government marks as top secret facts it doesn't want you to know, the surveillance state watches your movements when it wishes, listens in on your phone calls, reads your mail, manipulates the money supply, there is a lot of police brutality, the police are militarized, demonstrations are ignored or squelched by the obedient press, there are illegal wars that make the "leaders" feel strong and important . . . .

Of course, we don't have any of that here. No. We are a capitalist country, and capitalism is good, and we are free.

We are a free country. So of course Americans won't vote for a socialist.



The very wealthy are free. The rest of us??????

I ask anyone who thinks we are free to explain to me why so many refugees are escaping from Syria. Because I do not believe a word of the official story. They have lied so much to us. How did ISIS get its weapons? Explain that to me, please.

[PosterChild]

66. And I'll wager .,..

... you lose that wager.

[Demeter]

73. Truman was a Democrat! The GOP had endured 16 consecutive years of Democrats in WH

They wanted to win so badly, they were willing to stage a coup!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

The plot to overthrow FDR: How the New Deal sent conservatives into a rage
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/18/the_plot_to_overthrow_fdr_how_the_new_deal_sent_conservatives_into_a_rage_partner/


The GOP thought, with "that man", as they called FDR, finally dead, they could take over, easily.

Imagine the rage they felt when Truman won at the grassroots level....

[840high]

82. Yep - I'm old enough to remember.

[djean111]

2. Nice how quick people are picking up on this utter bullshit that Bernie is "unelectable".

I would have to say that, seeing as how she lost LAST time she ran, it is Hillary who is unelectable.

[RiverLover]

4. Boom!

mic drop

[peacebird]

10. Desperation play by the DNClinton and Team Hillary - the ultimate "political outsider"

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

17. Exactly. The GOP are praying Hillary get's the nomination...

...because it's their only chance. Fair or unfair, HRC has a lot of baggage. Name another figure that the Right loves to hate more than Hillary? And very often a lot of voters are more motivated in who they are voting against, than for.

Bernie on the other hand has broad appeal. He's not polarizing. He's respectful (even of those who don't deserve it). People across the political spectrum are willing to listen to Bernie because he addresses the big issues that matter. Furthermore he's not afraid to say where he stands, and his record is consistent for decades.

Bernie has outperformed the crowds and grassroots support that BO had achieved at this point in the cycle. He's the real deal, and his momentum will only continue as more and more of the public get to know him.

[jeff47]

25. Minor tweak

And very often a lot of voters are more motivated in who they are voting against, than for.

A lot of Republican voters are more motivated in who they are voting against.

Reactionary people are inherently against something. You can harness that to get them to vote against people.

It doesn't work as well on the Democratic side. The centrists are fired up to vote against someone, but everyone to the left of them is looking for some change. They aren't just trying to stop something, they are trying to move things forward.

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

27. Completely unelectable from my family

who are all for Bernie, including my sisters, my mom and their family (about a total of 15 voters, including twin nieces of mine who just became eligible to vote this year)

[still_one]

3. Here's Why The South Poses A Huge Problem For Bernie Sanders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-nonwhite-voters_55fae616e4b0fde8b0cd427f

[Fawke Em]

8. Meh. This Southerner is voting for him.

[peacebird]

11. So is this one

[still_one]

12. Great. Is that the Southern consensus?

[tosh]

21. This one too AND...

quite a few others who I've talked to.

[Fawke Em]

62. If you look at my FB timeline, Bernie is the only candidate running.

Granted, I mostly hang with Democrats, but even in the comments section of our newspaper, Bernie fans seem to be on par with Trump fans and the only time Hillary is mentioned is in derision or with some meme.

[treestar]

51. but the election is decided by all the voters, or a majority of them

very basic reality.

[cui bono]

15. I've gone into only about four threads just now and this was in two of them.

You are a busy bee!

He's winning Iowa now. Remember when he wasn't? Yeah, so do I. Wasn't that long ago. He's on a meteoric rise, to quote Colbert.

FEEL THE BERN!!!

[still_one]

43. So? I only posted it in two threads. One thread indicated Bernie would win by a landslide, so I

posted the link in that thread because I wanted to hear the strategy of how he will win the red states. I got no responses from that thread.

I posted it in this thread because they voiced the opposite opinion that Bernie "can't win", and wanted to hear any valid case, pro or con why or why not he could win in the red states.

This thread I got responses from folks who live in red states, which had positions on both views.

I am not spamming, just trying to understand the strategy.

Getting the nomination is not even half the battle for any Democratic candidate. How the Democrats, no matter who wins the nomination is able to get at least three strategic red states is vital to victory. It is even more concerning that traditionally blue states such as Iowa and Wisconsin, have shifted to the right with Ernst, Walker and Johnson in the midterms, so it will be difficult regardless who is the nominee.

We were told by the Kerry campaign there would be boots on the ground during his run for President, to avoid what happened in 2000. It sure wasn't effective, and we had better be more prepared this time.

[cui bono]

57. Well look at his rising popularity. The more he gets out there, the more people support him.

Most people don't have a clue who he is, never heard of him before. So the more people that get to know about him, the more they like him and the more supporters he gets.

Same thing is going to happen - or is already happening - in the south. Hillary had a stronghold on Iowa once upon a time, but as people got to know Bernie he overtook her. As the southern Dems - and Republicans and indies - get to know Bernie, he will overtake her in many southern states as well.

All you have to do is look at the current trends.

The Dems blew it. The election was stolen again in 2004 and they just stood by. We can't let that happen ever again.

One thing Bernie does have is boots on the ground. I'm pretty sure that when he's the nominee, there will be plenty of organizations who will be concerned about election fraud and will be out there protecting the integrity of our ballot boxes. I would love it if Amnesty International comes to monitor our elections.

[still_one]

65. No doubt that his popularity is rising, at least within progressive circles, just as Hillary

is not as popular in those same circles. The popularity you are discussing is mostly in regard to the primaries, and in this case the Democratic primaries, so it is a filtered group. We will see how things develop

[cui bono]

67. His popularity is rising among conservatives as well!

It's rising in all groups as they get to know him.

Yes, I think I made reference to a general election, but I think indies will be inspired to register as Dem where necessary to vote for him in the primary. I worked with someone a few months ago who only votes in presidential elections, has always voted for Republicans and he's going to vote for Bernie. I barely had to say anything to him, he watched a few videos and came in my room and said, "I like this guy. I really like him." It was his authenticity and his policies.

[still_one]

68. I do not believe there is evidence to suggest that his popularity is increasing among conservatives

[cui bono]

69. I do believe. There's a group "Republicans for Bernie" or something like that.

And look at the response from his Liberty U appearance.

It's happening and it's very exciting!

[still_one]

70. Those students at Liberty are not going to vote for any Democrat including Bernie. The conservative

you talk about that are excited about Bernie is because it is their belief he has less of a chance than Hillary to win. Just as Democrats are excited about Trump because it is their belief that Trump has less of a chance to win than another republican candidate

[cui bono]

79. No, there are moderate Republicans who respond to Bernie's message.

Hillary is much easier for them to beat. That's why they're on the rampage against Bernie now, they are afraid of him. Did you see the thread about Michael Savage going after him on rw radio? They wouldn't do that at this time if they wanted to run against him.

[still_one]

81. No, and I certainly give very little credence in savage and his ilk. His

audience that is very limited in listeners, who are enthralled with his Obama is a radical gay socialist Kenyan Muslim communist who hates America. Or the Girl Scouts are part of an evil leftist agenda to make America accept transgendered people, or a myriad of other sinister plots

The freaks of the airwaves like savage do not represent most republicans, even the conservative ones.

Savage donated to Jerry Brown, was friends with Alan Ginsberg, he wrote herbal and health books under the name Weiner, he wrote a book against the bush presidency. He is all over the board. All he cares about is making a buck by saying outrageous things, and is a con man to his limited listeners

Savage saying something outrageous about anyone means nothing except to get himself attention. He is a con man, pure and simple. He could care less about who he slams as long as it gets him listeners

His competitors like Mark Levin, Limbaugh etc. dispise him

[Vincardog]

94. Ernst won IA because the Democratic candidate followed the failed DNC strategy of running as a GOP

Lite proposition. Bernie is 180 degrees out of that failed plan.
He will IA for the same reason he will win the general: he has the answers for what is wrong with America.
After that it is going to be up to US to make the Congress send him the legislation we need.

[still_one]

95. we will see. I am not convienced that the country has suddenly turned more progressive, and most of

the polls indicate that is doable, but not easy for the Democrats to regain control of the Senate. The House will be a lost cause until redistricting can occur

[Vincardog]

97. "The Country" has always been progressive on the issues. Money and cheating have given us the

Rightward leaning representation we have. Blame the corrupting influence of $$$$$ not the country.

[still_one]

98. I agree with your assessment of the corrupting influence of money, which also influences the MSM

since they strive for ratings, and spew out misinformation from sources without questioning those sources.

[Vincardog]

99. Too often the "Sources" are the OWNERS of the RWM.

[thesquanderer]

20. That problem is potentially solvable

From that article that talks about how far he's behind HRC in the south:

Ninety-two percent of black voters were familiar with her; in contrast, just one-third of black voters were familiar with Sanders.

(as of a poll over the summer)

Of course HRC has much higher name recognition. But Sanders still has another five months to make people in these states familiar with him. The gap will narrow. And then, who knows...

[still_one]

55. That is a good point

[Gothmog]

34. In Texas, Sanders has to break the 15% barrier to get any delegates

[JDPriestly]

53. Obama one three Southern states in 2008:

Virginia, North Carolina and Florida.

Bernie can do that.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html

Bernie will attract both Black and white votes in those states once they get to know him.

The more people get to hear and know Bernie, the more they switch to preferring him. It's just a matter of time.

Bernie's views on prison and justice reform, on drug laws, on healthcare, on Social Security, all will draw a lot more Black voters than Hillary's hemming and hawing on these issues.

[eridani]

85. So? No Democrat will win any southern state in the general n/t

[cali]

5. the party bigwigs and dear Hillary will stop at nothing.

Disgusting.

[RiverLover]

7. It is disgusting.

Its like we're watching a long slow train wreck, caused by our own people. Maddening. Such an opportunity for our country. We need to put that train on a new track, stop the wreck from happening.

(West might even call the train for Bernie a "love train" )

[CentralMass]

9. Its clear the Party has it collective heads tucked somewhere dark. I hope Bernie can pull

off winning the nomination despite the parties best efforts.

[LWolf]

13. Wow. We've never heard that thrown at a candidate before.

It seems more than a bit desperate, considering his continued momentum.

[PosterChild]

33. Not against a.....

.... self proclamed socialist . A self proclaimed socialist isn't going to be the nominee or the president .

[LWolf]

47. They've been calling Obama a socialist since '08.

Somehow, that hasn't stopped him from winning presidential elections.

[brooklynite]

58. Perhaps because he didn't call himself one?

[LWolf]

61. I don't think it's going to matter much

for those who are rabid socialist haters. They'll oppose him one way or the other.

For the rest? I think Bernie will be fine.

https://www.facebook.com/republicansforbernie

[PosterChild]

64. Obana doesn't call HIMSELF a socialist ....

...Bernie does. People know the different between a factual description and a smear .

[LWolf]

89. His name is Obama,

and the only people who are going to let "socialism" scare them away are those who are doing the smearing.

[cui bono]

14. Are they already recycling memes? Can't come up with anything new?

[AtomicKitten]

16. She also insisted Obama couldn't win. How'd that work out again?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. Dunno. But Hillary clearly learned the lessons of her last campaign

And she is intent on repeating them this time, only better

[AtomicKitten]

41. It is breathtaking.

A carwreck in slow motion.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

72. Does she have a blind spot, or is it bad advice from someone, somewhere?

I wonder if Bill gives her npbad info just so she doesn't compete with his legacy? Someone surely has a plan, and she has signed on. And will not change her ways. Just like last time.

[left-of-center2012]

18. The DNC is backing Hillary

DWS will say and do anything to harm Bernie.
The Democratic leadership is no longer democratic.

[RiverLover]

22. They don't seem to be.

If they were, this "primary election" wouldn't be so blatantly rigged.

[Cal33]

48. Rigging reminds me of Republican behavior. Well they do behave more than half-way

like Republicans.

[99th_Monkey]

24. And neither is it "leadership" anymore, not really. DNC is neither. -nt-

[Capn Sunshine]

38. Is this a fact or did you just pull it out of the air?

My last communication with the DNC, which was Friday night, no one mentioned about Hillary getting any backing. Sure there are Hillary Backers, there are also O'Malley Backers, Biden guys(they are seriously on a hope train) and of course Sanders guys.

What we're concerned with at the moment is downticket races. It's pretty apparent to everyone at this point the Democratic nominee will win, barring some huge outlier even no one ever saw coming.

So, those of us that want a progressive voice articulated in this campaign, have the Bernie Sanders campaign. Left of Centrists, Hillary and O'Malley.

But backing Hillary? It doesn't roll like that in the primaries.

[Android3.14]

45. "My last communication with the DNC"

Well aren't we special.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see the DNC is manipulating money, polls and debate schedules to put Hillary in charge so they can have fucking business as usual.

Fuck that stupid shit.

If you are part of the DNC, or have some inroad with that crew, then shame on you for spreading that little denial.

I am fucking tired of faux players and the real DNC treating me and other voters as if we were their personal mule team.

[left-of-center2012]

56. I guess

We are either to hop on the HC bandwagon
or march quietly behind it
IMHO

[SheilaT]

19. Remind me again how Hillary was The Inevitable One

back in 2008, and why is she not finishing out her second term as we speak?

Or that there was no way on God's green earth that an African American could possibly be elected President that year? Who exactly is in the White House right now?

[RiverLover]

23. Yep I was told that as well. By a wealthy NYer...

I was told it was because people wanted Bill back in the WH (!?!) and no, we would never elect a man with the names Hussein & Obama...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Laugh!

Sanders is doing "a great job" bringing the Democrats' policy agenda into the public eye.

If what Sanders was bringing already WAS the Democrats' policy agenda, there wouldn't be nearly so many people clamouring for Sanders. They want him because they want his policies. Because they're NOT getting them from the Democrats already in office.

[PosterChild]

35. Ummm, there AREN'T ...

..... so many eople clamouring for Sanders.

[hughee99]

28. This isn't really new. People have been saying it

Since Bernie got in.

[RufusTFirefly]

31. As I mentioned in another thread, "unelectable" is an appalling tautology

People won't vote for him because they say he's unelectable.
Why do people say he's unelectable?
Because people won't vote for him.
Why won't people vote for him?

[Gothmog]

32. I keep asking the same question and I keep getting unsatisifactory answers

The Sanders campaign will do better with several groups if the Sanders campaign can show how it will be able to compete in a general election contest where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will be spending another billion dollars. The failure to answer this question is hurting the Sanders campaign

[antigop]

37. add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt

[Fawke Em]

63. Actually, people have answered you a thousand times, but you don't like the answers. eom

[Gothmog]

77. The answers so far rely on magic twitter and youtube accounts

What is your explanation. I would love to read it

[Maedhros]

74. Well, you convinced me.

Money in politics is the right way to go! That whole "vote for the person with the best ideas" thing is just stupid.

Man, those jokers who opposed Citizen United - what rubes! Amiright?

[Gothmog]

90. Clinton does not support Citizens United either

No democrat likes the current system but if we want to win, we have to live in the real world. President Obama was forced to use a super pac in 2012 to keep the spending close but was out spent. Hillary Clinton is going to appoint SCOTUS justices who will vote against Citizens United but to do this, she has to win.

[Maedhros]

93. I don't believe her, though.

She has proven untrustworthy.

[Android3.14]

40. The sockpuppets have been scurrying around here of late, as well

Mechanically touting the same message.

[RiverLover]

52. Yep.

Funny that.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. That meme might be out there, but it's not a DNC meme

You guys love to create conspiracies and put words in our mouths by editing a few articles into a fine bogieman, but the DNC is NOT "meme"ing anyone, pro or con.

However, SOME Democrats , on their own , might be repeating this. It's certainly been a concern of theirs since Bernie first announced.

As an experienced member of the Obama campaign, I remember well the calls from concerned Democrats saying "Obama can't win; no black man can"

So I'm witholding any judgement on conventional wisdom until the string plays out.
The DNC's primary uppermost concern is getting the candidates elected once they are nominated. WE don't take stands in the primaries.

Despite your huge lack of comprehension about the actual mechanics of the process.
If there's a meme out there from ME, it's that Sanders partisans are frequently dreamy firstimers who lack an understanding of on ground campaigning. Fer chissakes, the PDA is STILL doing organization at street level, because local Sanders campaigns can't /don't understand.
Spend less time telling me online how Sanders is going to win, and more time at the malls and events signing people up, getting their contact info, making sure they are register to vote, and developing the street by street game plan necessary to get your voters to the polls.

[RiverLover]

54. As I read your post, I heard you say the words as if you were Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men

"You can't handle the truth!"



But seriously, despite you assuming my "huge lack of comprehension", what the DNC is obviously pushing, as was reported in The Hill & as we've seen that particular meme punched up the last 2 days....knowing that & knowing how campaigns are run are not mutually exclusive. Code Red isn't linked to knowing how to be an honest marine, if you will.

But thanks for the dressing down. You did make (some) good points, but they don't change what the party leadership is clearly trying to do. But hey, you sure told me!

[Capn Sunshine]

84. If you'll notice, the DNC wasn't really mentioned inthat article

That was the OP's leap of logic . Some Democrats= DNC. Not really accurate, unless you want a bogeyman?

[PosterChild]

75. PDA? Is that . ..

.... progressive Democrats of America ?

[Capn Sunshine]

83. Yes

Without them, the Sanders Campaign would really be in the weeds.

[Autumn]

44. So was a little known black Senator from Illinois. He was unelectable too.

Just ask Hillary.

[Vinca]

46. As Bernie has recently shown in Vermont polls, he appeals to some GOP voters.

Maybe, like Reagan Democrats, they'll put him over the top in the general.

[brooklynite]

59. Show me some Republican support in the South or in the Midwest tossup States?

Actually, show me any significant strength in those areas.

[Vinca]

86. If he had more exposure - like more debates with Hillary - he would have it.

The game is being rigged by those who want to crown a candidate. By the way, I doubt she has much GOP support anywhere.

[brooklynite]

87. So he was able to get enough exposure in IA and NH to lead, but he can't get noticed elsewhere?

And I assume you disagree with the people telling me that Sanders is getting known through social media so tradition outlets don't matter?

[Vinca]

88. I fold - can't argue with a Hillary supporter.

This will make you have a happy day: "Bernie is a bad man. Bernie is a bad man. Bernie is a bad man." Repeat it as a mantra as often as necessary.

[treestar]

50. He is.

There's a stubborn insistence here not to face the reality that not just DU will vote. The masses of voters out there are not as far to the left as we are. They barely tolerated the ACA, let alone think it's not enough. 25% of them will even support someone like Trump. If Obama could not turn them into liberals with his charismatic personality, BS sure can't.

[RBInMaine]

60. The DNC isn't saying this. Enough of the bullshit lies and propaganda.

[RiverLover]

71. Oh that's rich.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. That talking point had it's tires tested here

Did not work well either

[RiverLover]

78. Like this morning...

If someone in the Bernie camp can honestly and objectively explain just how a self declared "socialist" can win the American general election, I am all ears.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=607500

[KelleyKramer]

80. Ha ha! We have had a socialist in the White House for over 6 years!

That talking point is so full of shit it's laughable

What they really mean is the DNC doesn't like him because he is a progressive liberal. The DNC only wants someone who has sold their soul to Wall Street and the corporations

I think what really scares them is that he actually can win the general election

[Babel_17]

91. Why they should quickly drop that argument

It's going to make Secretary Clinton look weak if the argument regarding her opponent who is rising in the polls is that he's not a serious candidate. It raises so many very obvious questions, and they can be boiled down to "Wow, why aren't you even close to being as popular as Sanders with so many Democrats?".

Those making this argument would be better served by saying "Secretary Clinton is a better fit for the electorate". But then they'd have to offer at least a token explanation, and the HRC campaign has been coming up short on showing the desire to expound on the issues. So instead they go negative. EasyPeasy, but sad.

The Clinton campaign is showing itself ill equipped to battle it out for the progressive vote in the primaries. Instead they have people like David Brock do their negative campaigning for them. The tactics that the Republicans will use against Sanders in the GE are going to backfire for the Clinton campaign in the primaries. They're running against a clean candidate who isn't going negative against them, and their tactics are being seen as repulsive by many. And they boomerang, they just remind people of the ethical considerations that should be applied to candidates, and in that comparison, Democratic primary voters are often going to be much more comfortable with Senator Sanders.

Flinging mud invites mud in return. That it won't be coming from the Sanders campaign is going to be noticed.

[Bobbie Jo]

92. Nothing "new" about that.

[Uncle Joe]

96. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, RiverLover.