It is true that any front runner would want less debates.

[Bonobo]

It is ALSO true that Hillary appears to lose more and more support when she opens her mouth and makes appearances.

She does not speak particularly well and she leaves a negative impression more often than she leaves a positive one.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

Personally, I think even 2 or 3 debates is enough to sink her. She will be careful, of course. She will most likely not deviate from a very carefully planned set of memorized passages.

But THAT is precisely what gives the accurate impression of her as a scripted, insincere politician.

That is precisely what people are increasingly sick of.

That is the danger she faces. Exposure time is not a good thing for such a calculating figure. The seams begin to show.

[TDale313]

1. Agree on both points.

[bvf]

2. Her handlers are working on it.

To wit:

http://www.theonion.com/article/campaign-staffers-making-progress-conditioning-hil-51320

[Bonobo]

3. Absolutely hilarious! nt

[Ed Suspicious]

4. She's no Bill Clinton.

[appalachiablue]

5. and also there's ?!

[zentrum]

6. You said it.

On some level she knows this about herself and doesn't want to risk the exposure.

It's really bad for the Democrats, and for the country that she's chosen to run again and yet——to not submit to a real Democratic primary process. Machine politics at its most blatant.

[SoapBox]

7. At some point in the debates, she will get

that "look" on her face...and man, will that turn people off.

[Betty Karlson]

8. 2 or 3 is enough to sink her? Maybe

But is 2 or 3 enough to heal the rift that comes with the sudden demise of the long-time frontrunner? If Mr. Sanders is to achieve his ambition, he needs all the party behind him.

I've long said that if Mrs. Clinton manages to win the nomination, her FIRST priority for a long time is to asure the left wing of the Democratic Party (or the Elizabeth Warren wing if you will) that she is their candidate and representative in the General Election.

If Mr. Sanders wins the nomination, the onus of that obligation falls on him.

[TM99]

36. No Sanders really won't have the obligation.

Why? Because he has a consistent message that cuts across gender, race, economic worth, AND even politics.

Clinton, on the other hand, has an inconsistent message and history. She basically double messages that if you got the money to pay, then you can play with her. She will have a very difficult time convincing progressives if she somehow gets the nod that she supports anyone other than the elite with money and her neo-liberal sycophants. Most of us will never be convinced, ever.

[Betty Karlson]

38. I see that I misspoke by being too concise.

I meant that the onus of obligation fell on Sanders to convince the other Democratic side he is their candidate too. For Instance: If for whatever reason a PoC in South-Carolina is still worried about Sanders' commitment to racial justice, the senator's consistent message needs to be re-introduced over and over until all reasonable people have been reassured.

[eridani]

9. Debates contrast the D brand and the R brand

They are essential for ANY Dem nominee IMO.

[mhatrw]

10. That's why all the debates are scheduled for the worst times.

Low and medium information voters will have only the corporate media's skewed debate evaluations to go on, if that.

That is the only way Hillary "wins" any debate against Sanders or O'Malley.

[dsc]

11. then why didn't the dozens of debates in 2008

cause her to lose support. She started in the high 40's and ended in the high 40's nationally. Yes she lost the race but by the first debate she was in those high 40's and after the last vote was cast she was right in the same place.

[Bonobo]

12. She DID lose support. Look.

Look at the results after the April 26 debate for starters.

5.1 April 26, 2007 – Orangeburg, South Carolina, South Carolina State University
5.2 June 3, 2007 - CNN 7:00pm EDT - Goffstown, New Hampshire, Saint Anselm College
5.3 June 28, 2007 - PBS - Washington, D.C., Howard University
5.4 July 12, 2007–Detroit, Michigan
5.5 July 23, 2007 - CNN - Charleston, South Carolina, The Citadel military college
5.6 August 4, 2007 – Chicago, Illinois
5.7 August 7, 2007 – Chicago, Illinois
5.8 August 9, 2007 – Los Angeles, California
5.9 August 19, 2007 – Des Moines, Iowa
5.10 September 9, 2007 – Coral Gables, Florida, University of Miami
5.11 September 12, 2007
5.12 September 20, 2007 – Davenport, Iowa
5.13 September 26, 2007 – Hanover, New Hampshire, Dartmouth College
5.14 October 30, 2007 - NBC 9:00pm EDT - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Drexel University
5.15 November 15, 2007 - CNN - Las Vegas, Nevada
5.16 December 4, 2007 - NPR (radio only) - Des Moines, Iowa
5.17 December 13, 2007 – Johnston, Iowa
5.18 January 5, 2008 - ABC 8:45pm EST - Goffstown, New Hampshire, Saint Anselm College
5.19 January 15, 2008 - MSNBC 6:00pm PST - Las Vegas, Nevada, College of Southern Nevada
5.20 January 21, 2008 - CNN 8:00pm EST - Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
5.21 January 31, 2008 - CNN 5:00pm PDT - Hollywood, California
5.22 February 2, 2008 - MTV 6:00pm EST - MTV Myspace Debate
5.23 February 21, 2008 - CNN 7:00pm CST - Austin, Texas, University of Texas at Austin
5.24 February 26, 2008 - MSNBC 9:00pm EST - Cleveland, Ohio, Cleveland State University
5.25 April 13, 2008 - CNN 8:00pm EDT - Grantham, Pennsylvania, Messiah College
5.26 April 16, 2008 - ABC 8:00pm EDT - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

[dsc]

13. that is favorability

not support. Those are vastly different things. To take one extreme example the Republican House has favoribles in the low teens but will surely win at least 48 percent of the vote.

[Bonobo]

15. LOL, if you say so.

Favorability has NOTHING To do with coming off poorly in a debate.

Gotcha.

My OP has been demonstrated with numbers. Thanks for making me get off my lazy ass and find the evidence!

[NCTraveler]

14. Seem to be a lot of people here who have determined how the debate is going to go.

I would argue differently and have done so. Sanders short run will end when he has to stand on stage with O'Malley and Clinton. O'Malley will be the biggest benefactor. Sanders is good at repeating the same thing over and over again while pounding on a podium. He is an activist. He will look and sound anything but Presidential, specially when juxtaposed to O'Malley and Clinton. Michelle Bachmann handed Bernie his ass, yet he is going to look Presidential next to O'Malley. Forget Clinton, O'Malley alone is going to create a visual that will put Sanders on even more outside footing.

There you go. We can all have opinions. I think mine is based on watching politics for a long time and actually watching Sanders debate. Pounding on the podium and lecturing isn't going to have the appearance some think it will. Sanders is an amazing activist. He is also out of his league here. It goes beyond activism.

[Bonobo]

16. Including you, in technicolor detail! nt

[cali]

17. why hello you! what debate did you watch Bernie in? I'm sure, as it was so memorable as

to convince you that he's so terrible that his campaign will come to a screeching halt after the first debate, you'll have no problem pointing out exactly which debate left such a strong impression on you. Please link.

And have a motherfucking fabulous day!

[NCTraveler]

18. Hi cali. Have an amazing day yourself.

Starting to have a little cooler mornings here in Florida and it is beautiful out. Hope it is the same in your neck of the woods. Thanks.

[cali]

23. what? no link? having memory problems? I'm shocked, but then your posts

illustrate your wild imagination. You are quite the storyteller!

[NCTraveler]

25. Hi cali.

Thank you for your kind words. I have so much respect for your passion.

[Sivart]

19. bachman versus sanders...

I just watched that "debate" if that is what we are calling it. It was actually just a segment on Wolf Blitzer's CNN show.

I saw no podium pounding (there was no podium . And Bachman was more repetitive than Sanders.

The only way you could think she handed him his ass is if you agree with her right wing talking points/non answers.

She interrupted both Sanders and Blitzer the whole time, which may confuse some people into think that she "won" the exchange......but the stuff she was saying matters to the rest of us.

[NCTraveler]

20. "The only way you could think she handed him his ass is if you agree with her right wing talking poi

Ever notice when people make absolute statements they are almost always wrong. lol.

Only
Always
Never

The only way you can make such an absolute comment is if you aren't willing to think of other options. lol.

[Sivart]

21. Ok...

So what did she say that leads you to believe she handed him his ass?

[NCTraveler]

22. It was the lack of what he said.

It was his complete loss of control. It was his demeanor and lack of discussion skills. Even you admit he was simply shouted over. Hmmmm. Have I heard that about him before somewhere?

Sanders is a great guy. Admitting this isn't his thing isn't some great shot across his bow. Hillary isn't the best at it either. I don't take offense at that thought. I do think she is worlds better than Sanders, but as I have made clear, I don't think that is saying much. Sanders is a great activist.

[cali]

26. how sad that you think that's a debate, or remotely like a formal political debate.

I've seen Bernie debate many times. Yes, he's better than dodgy hilly.

[NCTraveler]

29. Hi cali,

You are correct it isn't in the presidential debate platform where certain protections are afforded to those who can't command the floor. Protections will be afforded at our debates as should be the case so each person can get their views out without concern of being run over by someone more aggressive. You are incorrect that it isn't a debate by every definition of the word. Thank you and big smiles.

[Sivart]

27. Ha....Complete loss of control?!?!?!?!

That was in no way a complete loss of control......not even close.

Who gives a shit if he got a little frustrated with the stupidity of Michelle freakin Bachman.....?!?!?!?!?!

Its a freakin TV show.

Blows my mind that people on this board put stupid crap like this in front of the actual issues.

Notice to all voters : Bernie is not young and sexy and made for TV. The Kardasian crowd may want to look elsewhere.

However, on the issues, he hands michelle bachman her ass every single fucking time.

[NCTraveler]

30. "Blows my mind that people on this board put stupid crap like this in front of the actual issues. "

"She does not speak particularly well and she leaves a negative impression more often than she leaves a positive one. "

Why haven't you expressed your concern in this area with the op? That line is directly from the op which I am guessing you read before reading my reply. They brought up this discussion in the same manner I am addressing it. Why completely gloss over the comment I have highlighted from the op? Will you respond to them with this line: "Blows my mind that people on this board put stupid crap like this in front of the actual issues."

Didn't think so.

"However, on the issues, he hands michelle bachman her ass every single fucking time. "

Not when he actually has to sit next to her. You even come clean on that with your not made for tv comment. There you go. You do fully understand the point I was making, so much so that you backed it up, that he needs to be standing behind a podium with rules that stop other from talking. I don't get where the problem is. With the line I highlighted from your previous post it seems you should be calling out the op for not discussing serious issues. Then again, I think the op is fair discussion.

[Sivart]

33. I dont agree with you at all....

And you saying I do does not make a difference to any of us

No one accuses Bernie of being dishonest. Yes, he has an accent, yes he is grey haired, yes he is a little rough around the edges for TV....but no one ever accuses him of being dishonest.

Can you say the same for Clinton?

Some times Bernie seems angry........some times Clinton seems dishonest........can you understand the difference?



You can feel free to vote for whomever you want, and for whatever reasons you want. Too bad for you Bachman isn't running again

[NCTraveler]

34. Yes, huge Bachmann supporter here. lol.

That must be the heightened level of political discourse you were mentioning above. Love it.

[cali]

24. that isn't, by any stretch of even the wildest imagination, a debate.

Certainly it's unrelated to a presidential debate.

[kenfrequed]

32. Ridiculous assertion

You are comparing a moderated debate with time limits and absolute rules against talking over the other person with a Wolf Blitzer shit-show?

That is the height of absurdity and only a republican would assert that Bachmann somehow "won" that by talking over the other guest on that show.

When are we going to be finished with that corporate stooge Wolf Blitzer?

[NCTraveler]

35. "When are we going to be finished with that corporate stooge Wolf Blitzer?"

Should have happened a long time ago.

[bigwillq]

28. Six debates is more than enough

For folks to realize that Hillary is not what this country needs.

I don't want Clinton or Biden.

[randys1]

31. President Rick Santorum wants you to know that he loves you if you are Gay

He also wants to imprison you for being Gay, but he loves you.

[Bonobo]

37. You okay, randys1? nt