Voters Raise Concerns About Bernie Sanders’ Record On Guns

[big_dog]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) — who is currently ahead of all other Democrats in the state — has the best platform for “marginalized people,” but the worst record on gun control. “I believe in everything he says and a lot of things he’s done in Washington, but I can’t vote for him,” Clai Lasher-Sommers told ThinkProgress. “I will vote for whoever has enough clout to make the change, and I don’t believe [Sanders] will take this on. I can only look at a candidate who speaks loudly about it, because I can’t watch more people be shot.”
Other New Hampshire voters shared similar concerns, citing guns as the only red flag in Sanders’ otherwise progressive record.
At a campaign stop in Portsmouth over the weekend, Sanders pushed back against this sentiment, telling ThinkProgress: “You’re looking at a senator who voted to ban certain types of assault weapons. You’re looking at a senator who voted for instant background checks and wants to strengthen that, and who voted to do away with the so-called gun show loophole.”
Yet Sanders also cast a vote against the Brady Bill, legislation that instituted federal background checks and a five-day waiting period for gun purchases. He said at the time that states should be able to set their own waiting periods. Then, in 2007, he voted for a bill to prohibit foreign or United Nations aid to be used for gun control. In 2009, he voted to allow firearms on checked bags on Amtrak. His most controversial vote was cast in 2005, in favor of an NRA-backed bill to prevent victims of gun violence from being able to sue gun manufacturers for negligence.
Sanders told ThinkProgress that his background representing a gun-loving, rural state would help him reach across the political divide and break the current gridlock on the issue. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/09/21/3703618/voters-conflicted-about-bernie-sanders-on-guns/

[AgingAmerican]

1. Snore

nt

[Koinos]

2. K & R

[Brock Kentman]

3. What is it, the third time around?

Yes, snore....

[Duckhunter935]

6. 4 or 5

must be getting desperate again

[jeff47]

19. Recycling: It's not just for trash!! (nt)

[restorefreedom]

25. l.o.l. nt

[brooklynite]

41. That would be the same type of recycling as the "Hillary gets all her money from Wall St" chart?

[jeff47]

42. No, the difference is this keeps being brought back up after it fails to persuade anyone. (nt)

[brooklynite]

80. ...just like the "Hillary gets all her money from Wall Street" chart

[beam me up scottie]

71. Yup. This week's featured meme is "Gun Nut".

Still a loser but new memes are expensive to manufacture.

I guess all that opposition research isn't paying off.

[senz]

73. Almost like it came down from HQ.

Funny how that works.

[beam me up scottie]

75. The original "Bernie Sanders, Gun Nut" hit piece was posted as an OP on DU 5 times.

It still didn't stick but you gotta give them an A for effort.

[senz]

76. Love the smell of desperation in the morning...

[Fawke Em]

87. Thom Hartmann talked about this today and reminded his listeners

that "Think Progress" is the media outlet for John Podesta's Center for American Progress and pointed out that Podesta is, of course, in Hillary's hip pocket. He also chided Talking Points Memo's Josh Marshall and, naturally, David Brock, for their treatment of Bernie, as well.

I wish I could find the clip. Maybe it's not out yet.

[beam me up scottie]

88. The people who need to listen won't.

Many of her supporters here applauded Castro for lying about Bernie not visiting Texas.

They don't care who does the deed as long as it gets done.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. voters?

[beam me up scottie]

5. According to the article only one said she won't vote for him.

He's pro-gun control and has a D rating from the NRA.

And I still don't understand what's wrong with having guns on checked baggage on trains.

How is that any different than transporting them on planes?

[hedda_foil]

7. All this nonsense means is they don't have a lot to throw against Bernie.

Hillary's team would like him gone before the first debate, so it's unlikely they have been holding back in the past couple of weeks. It's much more likely that they're using the juiciest oppo research they've got .... and it's pretty damn lame.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. What is this?

Like the 12th time this has been recycled. It didn't work the first 11 times but you think it will work on the 12th?

[Skwmom]

9. For "marganlized people" He also has the best platform for the middle class. Oh, I forgot,

it's part of the let's redefine Bernie so I can package myself as a defender of the working class.

[slipslidingaway]

10. I raise concerns about a candidate that voted for a war of agression and all the people ...

dead, injured or have fed and are still fleeing from the destabilization of that invasion.

[bluestateguy]

11. Sanders is right on the money on guns

Puzzling how the gun controllers (I could say they are "gun grabbers", but I won't say that) want more laws, but they tend to be the same people who express alarm at police brutality.

Well, who you think would do the enforcement of the new gun laws you propose?

[pablo_marmol]

17. ^^This.

Bernie is exciting Indies and some Republicans because he hasn't ruined his cred.

Edited to add: Maybe it's time I sent Bernie another $500 to thank him for his integrity on the gun violence issue.

[John Poet]

24. Maybe we need more guns

to protect ourselves from the police...

[bvf]

12. Found that old chew toy of yours, eh?

[Fuddnik]

13. Keep trying

[cali]

14. think progress is part of the Hillary machine

[C Moon]

15. :D

[eridani]

18. So does the NRA, which grades him D minus n/t

[bigwillq]

20. I think his record on that issue is fine (nt)

[99Forever]

21. This dog shit didn't stick the first dozen times Camp Weathervane flung it.

But the Smear Brigade is persistent, aren't they?

[hack89]

22. His views on guns are mainstream. nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. Fair Enough - He's less than ideal on this IMO. BUT...

President Bernie Sanders will not be the one impeding any progress on this front. He will sign into law any gun safety measure that gets through Congress And as he said, his experience representing a rural state with high levels of gun ownership may actually help him push for the best legislation that is politically viable.

[Dems to Win]

83. +1

I wish Bernie was stronger on gun control, especially in recognizing that we all live under the most lax state's gun laws, since trunkfuls of guns cross state lines with ease. We have to have consistent national laws if we ever hope to make progress.

I also wish that Bernie had voted against the Afghanistan/drone wars, the Authorization for the Use of Military Force passed in the days after 9/11 and still in effect.

No candidate perfectly reflects my views, but my list of disagreements with Bernie is far shorter than with anyone else.

[DanTex]

26. Can't help but notice the dismissive responses here from people who pretend to care about policy.

[restorefreedom]

29. d minus nra rating

this is a non issue

[DanTex]

30. Policy: Brady Bill, and gun industry immunity. But I get it, you don't care about policy.

The NRA gives anyone a D who doesn't support giving Uzis to 12 year olds. Their rating is meaningless.

[restorefreedom]

32. can we try and be grown ups about this?

my posts are about policy. i know you know this, since we have "talked policy" before.

i am not happy about brady bill, but he is not best buds with the gun industry. here are some of his more recent votes

2013 voted against
Prevents the U.S. from entering the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty, as an amendment to the congressional budget

2013 voted against
Allows concealed and carry across state lines in states where the practice is not prohibited

2013 voted for
Lists all people prohibited buying a firearm in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

2013 voted for
Bans high-capacity ammunition magazines carrying more than 10 rounds

2013 voted for
Bans assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines

[DanTex]

34. Your last post was about the meaningless NRA rating.

Bernie voted against the Brady Bill, and he voted for gun industry immunity. And he hasn't, to my knowledge acknowledge that those were mistakes. In fact, he has recently defended his vote on the immunity bill.

No, he's not Ted Cruz on guns, and he has made some good votes, but he also has some bad ones.

One thing Bernie likes to talk about is how Scandinavia and Western Europe have some things much better than us: better safety net, universal healthcare, etc. Well, another thing they have is much tighter gun laws, and far fewer gun deaths. Not sure why he doesn't realize that.

[restorefreedom]

36. also keep in mind

that the state he represents, Vermont, while having a rate high rate of gun ownership has a low rate of homicide. He is there to represent their interests, which involve them keeping their guns. It's the same problem Howard Dean ran into when he was running and he tried to distinguish rural gun owners from the city gun violence. This is probably the one aspect of his candidacy I am not as comfortable with as the others, but when you look at a state like Vermont, I certainly understand why he has tried to represent his constituents, even if I don't agree with it.

and yes, some of Western Europe has much tighter gun controls, and a lot less gun violence. I don't think will ever reach that level of control in this country. It won't be because of Bernie, it will be because of the stranglehold of the NRA. I also think he realizes that as President, he would have to have everyone in mind, and not just his constituents in a rural state where people tend to have a lot of guns.

[DanTex]

38. I get that he's from Vermont, but those were still bad votes.

When Hillary voted for the bankruptcy bill, she was representing NY, a state where many of the largest employers are financial institutions. Somehow the people who want to excuse Bernie's gun votes don't seem to accept the same argument when it comes to Hillary.

You're right, we're not going to get to Western Europe levels of gun violence. At least not for a long time. But here's the thing. We're also not going to get Single Payer, or free college financed by a massive financial transaction tax, or most of what Bernie is promising. And the reason is the same in all cases: the GOP.

[restorefreedom]

46. then its time to remake the gop

you can say i am pie in the sky (and sometimes i am), but we have to try and get the gop back to a sane conservative party.

several people here have mentioned the importance of all the races not just the presidency. I think we have to remember that. I also wonder about the strategy in states where it is possible, to do a crossover vote in the Republican primaries statewide and vote for someone who might be reasonable over someone who is a lunatic. I think this has to be done very carefully and probably only in states where the Democratic candidate has a very high probability of winning the general race. I don't know, I'd have to think more about that. But we have to do something about the GOP.

as for the Bernie and Hillary votes, I totally disagree with the bad votes that Bernie and hillary have done. I understand why, but I still don't like it.

[Armstead]

37. Hillary Clinton supported taking Welfare benefits from women and children

Not relevant you say?

Well if you don't agree with that, then why can't you accept that Sanders may have done some things not all of his supporters agree with?

Your pattern of relentlessly beating dead horses gets old sometimes.

[DanTex]

39. Why are Bernie's bad votes "dead horses"

but Hillary's bad votes are eternal reminders that she is evil?

[Armstead]

40. Because I support Bernie

and its a dead horse to me.

That's my honest answer.

[senz]

64. The Brady Bill was FEDERAL. Bernie is for STATE control.

Is that so hard to understand? Or do you think you can cling to an empty meme in your failed attempts to defeat Bernie? It won't work.

[DanTex]

65. The Brady Bill didn't stop states from imposing stricter laws. What it did is establish a uniform

federal minimum standard. And Bernie voted against that.

Similarly, Carly Fiorina wants to abolish the federal minimum wage and lets states decide. Are you going to defend that also?

[senz]

66. He was referring specifically to waiting periods.

You cannot compare minimum wages with gun policies. Minimum wages are necessary for a basic standard of living throughout the country, which affects the well-being of the people, dependence on federal assistance, and the overall economy. If minimum wages aren't imposed federally, states will screw their citizens in order to attract corporations. Wages are basic.

Gun problems vary state by state.

[DanTex]

68. The Brady Bill was more than just waiting periods, and bernie voted against the whole thing

because he wanted some states to be able to have weaker gun laws.

Neither gun violence nor minimum wage are either purely state or purely federal issues. Costs of living vary widely from state to state, just as do levels of gun violence and the conditions that give rise to them.

[senz]

69. Good representatives consider entire bills & their effect on consituents.

"Weaker" in this context only makes sense if one favors total, absolute controls.

If cost of living can be accurately assessed, minimum wage could be calculated based on a formula that includes regional costs of living. But minimum wages would have to automatically rise to keep up with increased costs of living.

[DanTex]

70. Sure, if you're an anti-gun-control right-winger, then Bernie's vote was "good."

And if so you probably also like Carly Fiorina's no-minimum-wage proposal. But from Democratic perspective, voting against the most significant gun control bill in decades is a bad thing.

[senz]

72. Vermonters are not right-wingers. Don't even try to put Bernie

-- or me, dammit -- into that category. It's cheap and low, and you should know better.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Don't you get it, senz? Anyone who disagrees with Dan is a right wing gun nut.

Pay attention!

[senz]

82. lol - and here I was expecting logic.

Funny how quickly they go from argument to ad hominem.

[artislife]

84. Gun CONTROL nt

[restorefreedom]

27. you know there is no tootsie roll inside, right?

but you can keep working that lollipop if you want.......

[treestar]

28. It is funny how this has turned many people pro-gun

Bernie will have to deal with it as it comes up, like any other politician does the things that people point out about their records. The more debates, the more he'll get asked about it. He won't be able to "snore" or he'll really turn people off.

[DanTex]

31. That's the funniest thing. People claiming to be progressives suddenly bending over backwards

to defend giving immunity to the gun industry.

[treestar]

47. and complaining it is brought up over and over again

which any and every politician must deal with.

Hillary or Joe could not snore about emails or Benghazi or plagiarism etc.

[Armstead]

35. Sanders is PRO GUN CONTROL

Your reponse is Bullshit.

He supports the vast majority of gun control measures espoused by Hillary and others.

He is not a rigid ideologue on the issue and looks at it pragmatically, as how to best find common ground o actually get it done. According to "centrists" that's what Democrats are supposed to do, right?...I guess not when it's someone besides a Clinton.

[treestar]

48. and he'll have to deal with this question over and over

like Hillary with the emails. And defend himself for it over and over.

And whatever else arises.

[Armstead]

49. True. But I'm referring to your mischaracterization of him and those who support him

"It is funny how this has turned many people pro-gun"

[treestar]

54. My mischaracterization?

And you think the media won't do it? And others? Why do people think BS needs a special environment for running for President? It's not going to happen. He will get heat like others. Hillary has taken so much of it in the past and continues to, and yet the same people who will heap it on her expect BS to have a walk in the park. Running for POTUS and getting any traction at all means you will get hit with every past action you ever did. And its worst interpretation.

[TM99]

62. Talk about taking the ball and running.

Yes, the media will. You are NOT the media.

Yes Sanders will answer questions about this and other policies issues, and in fact he already has. You are NOT the one asking him the question.

You are making assertions about his supporters on a forum online. So all of your bloviating about running for POTUS is hard is just that, hot air. It is solely aimed at supporters and it is disingenuous.

You think you can hide behind a wall of text about 'out there' while you act like this in here. You have and will continue to be called out on that behavior.

Get used to it.

[Armstead]

67. If I said Hillary was Anti Choice because of some things she might have said or done....

...That'd be a flat out lie.

And of someone defended her action, it would also be a mischaracterization to say that supporter is Anti-Choice.

That's the point I was making.

Discussing or arguing about something specific is one thing. But that's something different.

Anyway, of the concern is "electability," the GOP is not likely to go after Sanders claiming he is pro gun. More likely they'll tag him as anti gun rights.

The media? Well they're lying jackoffs anyway.

[senz]

74. Huh? Who needs "special environments" for running? Not Bernie...

but Hillary needs DWS to protect her from open debates among Democrats. She's the one who can't take the heat --- the heat of democracy. Think about it.

[cali]

45. funny how you continue to just make things up.

[treestar]

51. I'm making up that running for President means

being called to answer for all one's past actions, repeatedly, sometimes with exaggerated claims, or actions taken interpreted with the most malevolent possible intent?

Who knew? I mean I'm amazed. You expect BS never to be questioned or criticized, especially by the very person running against him for the same thing?

[Armstead]

33. The concern of John Podesta's organization is noted

[cali]

43. Shocking that what is functionally an arm of Hillary's campaign would attack Bernie.

Not.

[treestar]

50. Do you expect Bernie not to be attacked by Hillary and her minions?

This is par for the course. It's running for President. It's what running for President involves. Of course Hillary is going to attack. She's trying to win.

How many attacks have you made on Hillary? Thousands! And yet someone from the other side, it is wrong.

[Armstead]

52. And how many times have criicisms on Hillary been attacjed as wrong

Like you said...It's politics.

[treestar]

56. exactly, I was getting at the replies that were

all about ZZZZZZ and complaining it is being brought up again.

[cali]

59. I gather you have a problem distinguishing the difference between a poster on DU

and an influential organization or high profile individual.

And no, I thoroughly expect loads of scummy attacks from Hillary's surrogates with her cloaking herself in not very plausible deniability- just as she did in 2008.

One of the reasons I oppose her is ethical deficit.

On that score, Hillary never disappoints.

[treestar]

61. No I do not, and Hillary's surrogates may be

influential and high profile and they will question and criticize BS with a great deal of zeal in the coming months.

Hillary has dealt with every manner of scummy attack herself.

BS is not going to be considered special and have the influential, media, professionals treat him with kid gloves because he is so "right" and ethical. He is going to have to face it all if he wants to keep running.

[moobu2]

44. Maybe he can introduce some phony legislation

that has no chance of passing or something.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

53. The concerns of your oligarchic website source

are duly noted.

[Autumn]

55. Maybe to a few voters. Those of us in the reality based world think Bernie's

record on guns is good.

[fredamae]

57. He Represented the Good Folks in VT

IE: He did His job in listening to and voting For his constituents in VT-unlike the people we've sent to DC from our respective states, imo!

[catnhatnh]

58. Another "gun" rerun???

Fuck these people! Would someone please run out front and yell "Bosnian Sniper" ? That'll shut them up...

[senz]

60. It's not "voters" who raise these "concerns," it's Bernie's opposition.

Bernie is fine on guns. He got a D minus from the NRA. He believes in state control over guns because each state is different. The problem with the Brady bill was that it put control at the federal level. His is a hunting, target-shooting state and he respects the rights of citizens, so it would be authoritarian and undemocratic of him to support laws that disrupt the lives of law-abiding Vermont citizens. States with dense urban populations and gun violence problems can pass stricter laws to meet their needs.

Bernie is on record as supporting sensible gun control: elimination of assault rifles and strict background checks on every gun purchase.

Apparently the astroturf BLM attack on Bernie fizzled out (because his record is stellar on poc issues) so now his failing opposition is trying the gun angle.

This too will fizzle out. Then they'll try something else.

[tularetom]

63. Don't you ever get tired of bringing this up and watching it get shot down?

Gun control is a no win issue for Democrats.

[still_one]

78. Objectively speaking, Bernie is against assault rifles for private use, voted to ban high capacity

magazines, voted no in DECREASING the waiting period from 3 to 1 day, and is rated F by the NRA

As to the statement that he "has the worst record on gun control", that simply is not accurate. Bernie has pragmatic approach to the problem

The bill to sue gun manufacturers by victims of gun violence due to manufacturers negligence, represents some very real Constitutional issues. It is not a slam dunk. Was it the intent of the gun manufacturer or the person who pulled the trigger to do injury to the victim?

[zappaman]

79. Stop it!!!!

[big_dog]

81. well played zappie

Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:37 PM - Edit history (1)

i felt the bern there

[artislife]

85. Because H stance of violence is better

Hillary's meme on
OOPS, I did it. Iraq Jam

http://antiwar.com/casualties/


OOPS, I did it again. Freestyling Libya mix

http://world.time.com/2012/05/16/how-many-innocent-civilians-did-nato-kill-in-libya/




edited to add source for photo
http://www.chowrangi.pk/crying-over-one-malala-yousufzai.html

[beam me up scottie]

86. She's also pro-death penalty. nt