Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:33 PM Sep 2015

BREAKING: Hillary Clinton says she opposes construction of Keystone XL oil pipeline


https://twitter.com/AP/status/646420477137784832

So principled, it only took her 2 years to form this position...


https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/646422073645092864

"Finally"... "Opposition"... Well said Bernie!


https://twitter.com/danmericaCNN/status/646422292524855299

I like a man who doesn't mince his words! Well said Martin!
149 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
BREAKING: Hillary Clinton says she opposes construction of Keystone XL oil pipeline (Original Post) Catherina Sep 2015 OP
Sounds principled to me. According to many here, she is taking oil company "bribes" and Hoyt Sep 2015 #1
She's a day late and a dollar short -- as usual. n/t nichomachus Sep 2015 #3
How is she "a day late and a dollar short"? Have they started building the pipeline yet??? George II Sep 2015 #77
With all due respect, floriduck Sep 2015 #92
I don't have that answer - why not share that with us? George II Sep 2015 #125
Sometime prior to today but later than her 2010 statement supporting it. floriduck Sep 2015 #131
As usual, great observation from a friend japple Sep 2015 #88
It won't be the first time a politician said one thing when running and another when Skwmom Sep 2015 #5
The party is now united on this vital issue a year before the election. Credit where credit is due. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #28
Kind of like Sanders when he said he was in favor of gun control yet voted.... George II Sep 2015 #79
He voted on a sound principle not to "protect" gun manufactures. raindaddy Sep 2015 #100
He voted for gun control and he voted against the Iraq war, so no, not like that. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #101
So if she does the right thing, some here will still ONLY bash her. randys1 Sep 2015 #7
Do the wrong thing...BASH....the right thing....BASH...thereby losing all credibility on everything. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #24
Putting aside the BASHERS, I do fear the reason she is saying this now is she knows randys1 Sep 2015 #30
Since Obama vetoed the Congressional bill, I doubt you will have any reason to. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #35
That bill was to force the approval. THere is still a chance approval will happen, as far as I know randys1 Sep 2015 #40
Overlooked at DU frequently-no, always Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #66
BINGO! George II Sep 2015 #95
Who knows. Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #107
This was a remarkable a change since just the end of this past July. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #136
I posted this in June 2013: Keystone and the Clintons. AtomicKitten Sep 2015 #141
To answer my previous question two things we know for certain that have changed since late July Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #145
Some will. That's life. Most will not. Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #84
"Most will not." That certainly isn't the case in this thread. George II Sep 2015 #126
Notice how when these folks are WRONG ... they take credit for stopping ... JoePhilly Sep 2015 #12
Keeps me laughing. Hoyt Sep 2015 #14
If I had a dollar for every time this happened at DU Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #67
Is Obama the guy who just ok'd drilling in the arctic and then made a speech about the environment? ish of the hammer Sep 2015 #102
Good for her ram2008 Sep 2015 #2
Yep. Maybe she'll catch up by election day. n/t nichomachus Sep 2015 #4
Politicans say a lot of things. Sometimes 2 opposites at once. Catherina Sep 2015 #11
Bernie Sanders is a politician....one who couldn't even decide upon a party until he needed it! George II Sep 2015 #81
Except his message has been consistent while Hillary has been "evolving" her whole career. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #85
The subject is the Keystone XL Pipeline. When was she in favor of it? George II Sep 2015 #94
When you need to evolve on civil rights you can't claim the high ground, Bernie got it right. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #97
Reminder (again) - the subject is the Keystone XL Pipeline, not civil rights. George II Sep 2015 #124
Straw man. Did I say she was in favour of the pipeline? She did say she was inclined to support it. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #127
Catherina made the snide comment about politicians in general, I pointed out that.... George II Sep 2015 #128
Stop telling me what I'm saying, George and stick to what you do know. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #130
She never said she would support it. Period. She also said that she would wait to see what... George II Sep 2015 #133
She said she was inclined to support it. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #135
He voted with the Democrats almost 100% of the time. eom Duval Sep 2015 #116
LOL pinebox Sep 2015 #120
How about that; faking a north wind (from Canada) while helping to privatize the Mexican DhhD Sep 2015 #122
WOW! marym625 Sep 2015 #6
I'm not either. I don't trust her. 840high Sep 2015 #112
Not one iota marym625 Sep 2015 #146
BREAKING: DU finds a way to criticize Clinton for saying the right thing. zappaman Sep 2015 #8
+1. Hoyt Sep 2015 #10
Half of DU will be taking credit for stopping her from doing this evil thing JoePhilly Sep 2015 #15
Easily predicted, you have to admit. If Clinton found the cure for cancer...same treatment as Obama. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #20
Yep! Each one trying to outdo the next one. leftofcool Sep 2015 #58
So predictable lunamagica Sep 2015 #90
Good! nt MannyGoldstein Sep 2015 #9
Thank you, Manny. The adult response on a vital issue the entire Party is united on. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #25
Focus groups must have finally come back with her deeply held beliefs. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #13
I personally think that neither she nor Obama want to be left holding the bag. DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2015 #144
We're already beyond that point. jeff47 Sep 2015 #147
Yay! She evolved again!! Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #16
It's like watching a snake change it's skin Catherina Sep 2015 #17
Really, did she used to be for it? DanTex Sep 2015 #23
As Secretary of State, she said she was inclined to support it. Luminous Animal Sep 2015 #42
Are you quoting her? Nt Bounzer Sep 2015 #76
...... Luminous Animal Sep 2015 #121
"But we are inclined to do so" beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #123
Glad to finally have an opinion. bunnies Sep 2015 #18
Predicted DU responses: Too little too late. Hope she keeps the promise. She is a weather vane. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #19
It's much easier to predict posts after they've been posted. Back to the Future! merrily Sep 2015 #51
"We forced her to change positions" JoePhilly Sep 2015 #103
woah dang! frylock Sep 2015 #21
And another Hillary-bashing talking point bites the dust. DanTex Sep 2015 #22
And several more motes rise from that dust, as you can read on the thread. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #27
virtually every clinton supporter on DU has told me that she couldn't possibly cali Sep 2015 #26
She needed the poll results from the states in play. n/t Skwmom Sep 2015 #29
UNREC'd...I did Rec........until the edits bashing the decision. Give credit where credit is due is Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #31
now was that so fucking hard? ibegurpard Sep 2015 #32
Good deal. TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #33
Good for her. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #34
No shit ibegurpard Sep 2015 #48
Better late than never n/t arcane1 Sep 2015 #36
TPP is gonna allow it anyway. HooptieWagon Sep 2015 #37
that is going to be a biggie restorefreedom Sep 2015 #50
The Great Evolver! bigwillq Sep 2015 #38
Man… MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #39
lol! nt restorefreedom Sep 2015 #46
Kudos. I compliment her concrete and unwavering opposition. Way to go Hillary Clinton! cherokeeprogressive Sep 2015 #41
I guess she got "tired of waiting" for the white house to act. She sure showed them! magical thyme Sep 2015 #43
Predictable response leftofcool Sep 2015 #59
given her announcement that she was tired of waiting on the white house to take action, etc. yes, magical thyme Sep 2015 #111
This message was self-deleted by its author Proud Public Servant Sep 2015 #44
Good !!! (BTW - This Thread Is Hilarious.) WillyT Sep 2015 #45
Good news. MerryBlooms Sep 2015 #47
this cant be making restorefreedom Sep 2015 #49
O'Malley goes after Hillary for following, not leading: beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #52
He nailed it n/t Catherina Sep 2015 #53
Yes he did. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #55
The same thought crossed my mind n/t Catherina Sep 2015 #62
Great response by O'M bigwillq Sep 2015 #80
He was right on it too, didn't skip a beat. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #83
I like him. bigwillq Sep 2015 #87
Me too, he's my second choice. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #99
Oh, c'mon. We know where she stands. progressoid Sep 2015 #148
LOL! I never get tired of seeing that here. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #149
The third comment is sexist. Renew Deal Sep 2015 #54
You're joking, right? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Sep 2015 #61
What happened to the dancing girl in your sig line? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Sep 2015 #70
Okay, I take it back. She's not awesome. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #72
This thread.... quickesst Sep 2015 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Sep 2015 #60
Oh, but they don't hate her! They just prefer another candidate! lunamagica Sep 2015 #98
That's my take... quickesst Sep 2015 #105
I find HRC's coming out one way or the other on underthematrix Sep 2015 #63
Ruh roh! You know what this means, don't you? tularetom Sep 2015 #64
Exactly. She doesn't oppose it because it's the right thing to do, in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #74
u got it right 840high Sep 2015 #119
Ahhhh Hillary!!! wendylaroux Sep 2015 #65
Ah, yes. She must have gotten word it's not going to be built. in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #69
So glad she's going to be the next President! ismnotwasm Sep 2015 #71
Good news from Hillary if true. NCTraveler Sep 2015 #73
Hillary is basically the Democratic Mitt Romney. askew Sep 2015 #75
I guess her focus groups told her she better oppose it davidn3600 Sep 2015 #78
Public pressure finally got to her campaign. HerbChestnut Sep 2015 #82
Doesn't mean much when she helped spread cracking all over the world jkbRN Sep 2015 #86
credit is due DonCoquixote Sep 2015 #89
Good. yardwork Sep 2015 #91
She had to get past her ham-fisted 'I'll tell you if you elect me' statement CanadaexPat Sep 2015 #93
She stepped all over a major policy announcement CanadaexPat Sep 2015 #137
O'Malley 's remarks are right on point. sadoldgirl Sep 2015 #96
Alternative route Geronimoe Sep 2015 #104
Good. This is the right position, too. nt cyberswede Sep 2015 #106
Because it's no longer economically feasible Fearless Sep 2015 #108
I guess this is a major shift from the, I'll let you know when I'm president campaign strategy to... raindaddy Sep 2015 #109
Bingo. CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #138
She didn't decide until she started dropping in the polls? Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Sep 2015 #113
Copy Cat Fawke Em Sep 2015 #114
Great toon. bigwillq Sep 2015 #118
I am so stealing that! n/t Catherina Sep 2015 #139
Well done Hillary. Now let's rethink that TPP.... n/t ion_theory Sep 2015 #115
Round and round it goes... SoapBox Sep 2015 #117
How about that Clinton foundation cash? pinebox Sep 2015 #129
and the anti - Hillary crowd will still find something wrong with that. Lil Missy Sep 2015 #132
Good for her. MineralMan Sep 2015 #134
Keystone was dead as fossil fuel prices plummeted. malokvale77 Sep 2015 #140
It's on hold anyway because the cost of oil is down Lorien Sep 2015 #142
Darn there goes some more ammo against Hillary workinclasszero Sep 2015 #143
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
1. Sounds principled to me. According to many here, she is taking oil company "bribes" and
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:35 PM
Sep 2015

would side with them. In fact, they said the same about Obama.

George II

(67,782 posts)
77. How is she "a day late and a dollar short"? Have they started building the pipeline yet???
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:06 PM
Sep 2015
 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
92. With all due respect,
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:28 PM
Sep 2015

If you were against the pipeline, like most liberals, prior to today then you already have an answer why she's late.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
5. It won't be the first time a politician said one thing when running and another when
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:37 PM
Sep 2015

elected.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
28. The party is now united on this vital issue a year before the election. Credit where credit is due.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:01 PM
Sep 2015

George II

(67,782 posts)
79. Kind of like Sanders when he said he was in favor of gun control yet voted....
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:08 PM
Sep 2015

....to protect gun manufacturers.

Or when he said he was against the war yet voted to fund it a number of times.

Or when he said he was against mass incarceration but voted in favor of increased penalties and private prisons.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
100. He voted on a sound principle not to "protect" gun manufactures.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:43 PM
Sep 2015

It's been explained ad ad nauseam.. Are we going to sue hammer manufactures if someone hits somebody over the head and kills them?

Sanders announced a plan to end private prisons what was the bill that increased private prisons. Didn't happen unless some republican added a rider to a bill he voted for.

He might've voted for a budget that included war spending..

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
101. He voted for gun control and he voted against the Iraq war, so no, not like that.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:45 PM
Sep 2015

Nice try though, but it's your candidate who's being called out for being inconsistent today.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
7. So if she does the right thing, some here will still ONLY bash her.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:38 PM
Sep 2015

You see that is why I dont believe for a SECOND they are who they say they are.

Now for the bad news, that she is coming out against it now probably means Obama's team is gonna OK it and this way she can go on record against it with no risk.

EVEN With that I am still WAY happier Obama is president than any righty and the same goes for Hillary if Bernie cant win

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
24. Do the wrong thing...BASH....the right thing....BASH...thereby losing all credibility on everything.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:55 PM
Sep 2015

Or, one could acknowledge the right thing was done by Clinton and retain some credibility.

Decisions, decisions...

randys1

(16,286 posts)
30. Putting aside the BASHERS, I do fear the reason she is saying this now is she knows
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:01 PM
Sep 2015

something we dont.

If Obama's administration approves Keystone, I am gonna REALLY be pissed.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
40. That bill was to force the approval. THere is still a chance approval will happen, as far as I know
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:07 PM
Sep 2015

HE vetoed forcing it

Capn Sunshine

(14,378 posts)
66. Overlooked at DU frequently-no, always
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:44 PM
Sep 2015

Is the reason Hillary could not comment until now was that she was a former member of the cabinet and was embargoed from comment on an ongoing negotiation of the executive. That she did means she got clearance from the Obama Administration to make a public comment on her long-held belief.

Capn Sunshine

(14,378 posts)
107. Who knows.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:56 PM
Sep 2015

DUers are a resilient and varied breed of online lunatics, combined with some RW trolls in sock puppet form, and of course a core of thoughtful and decent progressive voices.

So I'll just leave this info here.

Uncle Joe

(64,297 posts)
136. This was a remarkable a change since just the end of this past July.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:48 PM
Sep 2015


Profiles in Courage this ain’t. As Hillary Clinton points out when asked directly whether she would approve the Keystone Pipeline, the proposal for this project came to State in 2009, which meant that Hillary had almost four years to deal with the issues. Under her tenure as Secretary, the State Department concluded that there would only be a limited environmental impact from Keystone, later demanding (and getting) a route change to lessen even that risk.

So where does Hillary stand on this? After six years, she won’t tell you … unless you make her President:

Q: As President, would you sign a bill — yes or no, please — in favor of allowing the Keystone XL Pipeline?

HC: Well, as you know, I was the Secretary of State who started that process. I was the one who put into place the investigation. I have now passed it off, as obvious because I’m no longer there, to Secretary Kerry. This is President Obama’s decision, and I am not going second-guess him, because I was in a position to set this in motion, and I do not think that would be the right thing to do. So I want to wait to see what he and Secretary Kerry decide. If it’s undecided when I become President, I will answer your question!

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/28/hillary-on-keystone-youll-have-to-wait-for-my-election-to-get-my-position/



So that begs the question, what happened since the end of July to prompt Hillary to make her decision now instead of waiting to be elected President first?

Uncle Joe

(64,297 posts)
145. To answer my previous question two things we know for certain that have changed since late July
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:29 PM
Sep 2015

1. Bernie pulled ahead in the New Hampshire Presidential Primary polls beginning about August the 10th.

2. Bernie pulled ahead or at the very least became competitive in the Iowa caucuses about Sept. 10th.


http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-new-hampshire-presidential-democratic-caucus

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/qpoll-iowa-213462

As for President Obama's potential support, I would feel the same way as you but he's not running for reelection and has less to lose by supporting it today.

If he wanted to politically aid Hillary by "giving her a reason for opposing it now" when she had stated that she wouldn't disclose until after being elected that would be one way to do it, no matter the sincerity of Obama's beliefs regarding the Keystone Pipeline.

If Hillary truly opposed the Keystone Pipeline, nothing prevented her from stating so when the young lady asked the question on July 30th. The Republicans control the Congress and with Obama's support the Keystone pipeline would have no problem becoming approved.

So at this point there is no logical way to determine a potential Obama position as to whether it truly affected Hillary's position on this issue or whether it's just political calculation.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
12. Notice how when these folks are WRONG ... they take credit for stopping ...
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:40 PM
Sep 2015

... Obama (now Hillary) from doing the evil thing they were absolutely positively going to do.

Rather funny stuff.

Capn Sunshine

(14,378 posts)
67. If I had a dollar for every time this happened at DU
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:45 PM
Sep 2015

I'd have a lot better position on right now in the DOW futures and VIX.

ish of the hammer

(444 posts)
102. Is Obama the guy who just ok'd drilling in the arctic and then made a speech about the environment?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:47 PM
Sep 2015

fake left, run right

ram2008

(1,238 posts)
2. Good for her
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:35 PM
Sep 2015

I'm a Bernie supporter, but glad she's starting to start staking out some positions and is starting to get out there in the field. Credit where its due.

George II

(67,782 posts)
81. Bernie Sanders is a politician....one who couldn't even decide upon a party until he needed it!
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:10 PM
Sep 2015

George II

(67,782 posts)
94. The subject is the Keystone XL Pipeline. When was she in favor of it?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:33 PM
Sep 2015

Aside from that, I much prefer a leader who is able to adapt to today and "evolve" (your word, not mine!) than someone stuck in the '60s.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
97. When you need to evolve on civil rights you can't claim the high ground, Bernie got it right.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:37 PM
Sep 2015

If you consider that being "stuck in the '60's" that explains why you support the moderate candidate.

And you're right - this is about Keystone, so why did she suddenly change her mind?

"This is President Obama's decision, and I am not going to second-guess him," she said, adding: "If it's undecided when I become president, I will answer your question."

The Clinton camp doubled down soon after, with a spokeswoman saying: "...Given her former role as Sec state and having been part of the Keystone process, she believes that weighing in now could be disruptive to the process and not responsible to do. She is just in a different situation than other candidates."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/29/the-6-big-issues-where-we-still-dont-know-where-hillary-clinton-stands/

George II

(67,782 posts)
124. Reminder (again) - the subject is the Keystone XL Pipeline, not civil rights.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:48 PM
Sep 2015

When was she in favor of the pipeline?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
127. Straw man. Did I say she was in favour of the pipeline? She did say she was inclined to support it.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:53 PM
Sep 2015

And you're the one who made a snide comment about Bernie being a politician:

Bernie Sanders is a politician....one who couldn't even decide upon a party until he needed it!


To which I replied "Except his message has been consistent while Hillary has been "evolving" her whole career."


So, again, I simply reminded you that Bernie is consistent in his message.



Clear?


George II

(67,782 posts)
128. Catherina made the snide comment about politicians in general, I pointed out that....
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:13 PM
Sep 2015

...Sanders is a politician.

You said that Hillary Clinton has been "evolving" her whole career. She came out against the pipeline today. If that is an "evolution" then you're saying that she was in favor of it.

Now you're playing word games to cover your tracks. It didn't work.

'bye....

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
130. Stop telling me what I'm saying, George and stick to what you do know.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:17 PM
Sep 2015

She said she was inclined to support it, claimed she wouldn't tell us how she felt until she was elected and then evolved to her present position.

You're the one trying to cover your tracks by lying about what I posted.

George II

(67,782 posts)
133. She never said she would support it. Period. She also said that she would wait to see what...
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:29 PM
Sep 2015

..Obama's decision was before announcing her opinion (showing loyalty to the person she worked for for four years). But she also said that she wouldn't wait forever, which she didn't.

Now go find contradictory anecdotal quotes to "prove" me and Clinton wrong.

PS - I never "lied" about what you posted, but now you're just "evolving" on what you said.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
135. She said she was inclined to support it.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:31 PM
Sep 2015

I'm not taking your bait, I never claimed she supported it, that was your straw man, now you enjoy him.


DhhD

(4,695 posts)
122. How about that; faking a north wind (from Canada) while helping to privatize the Mexican
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:41 PM
Sep 2015

National Petroleum Industry while blowing south.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
15. Half of DU will be taking credit for stopping her from doing this evil thing
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:42 PM
Sep 2015

... that they were sure she was going to do.

She was hell bent on making XL happen .... but they stopped her!!!!!!

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
20. Easily predicted, you have to admit. If Clinton found the cure for cancer...same treatment as Obama.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:51 PM
Sep 2015

I had little doubt Clinton would go exactly as Obama has gone, and the criticism Clinton has and is and will be getting is EXACTLY the same as Obama on Keystone.

Look up the history.

Exactly the same.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
144. I personally think that neither she nor Obama want to be left holding the bag.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:26 PM
Sep 2015

Saudi Arabia is flooding the world with oil, and they don't mean to stop until tar sands and fracking are not economically viable activities. My understanding is that we are very close to this point now. So I don't believe either of them want their names attached to this giant waste of money. And if so, good for them, no matter their reasons.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
147. We're already beyond that point.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:23 AM
Sep 2015

It costs more to extract and refine tar sands oil than the current price of oil. That has been the case for around a year now.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
17. It's like watching a snake change it's skin
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:45 PM
Sep 2015

Glowing new skin but in the end, nothing's changed underneath.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
121. ......
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:39 PM
Sep 2015

"So as I say, we've not yet signed off on it. But we are inclined to do so and we are for several reasons — going back to one of your original questions — we're either going to be dependent on dirty oil from the Gulf or dirty oil from Canada. And until we can get our act together as a country and figure out that clean, renewable energy is in both our economic interests and the interests of our planet, I mean, I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone how deeply disappointed the President and I are about our inability to get the kind of legislation through the Senate that the United States was seeking."

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/CampaignsElections/a/Hillary-Clinton-On-The-Keystone-Xl-Pipeline.htm

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
19. Predicted DU responses: Too little too late. Hope she keeps the promise. She is a weather vane.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:50 PM
Sep 2015

Did I miss any?

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
27. And several more motes rise from that dust, as you can read on the thread.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:57 PM
Sep 2015

As a general aside: The O/M clipped quote re-tweet is.......a clipped quote and not worthy of response.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. virtually every clinton supporter on DU has told me that she couldn't possibly
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 03:57 PM
Sep 2015

oppose it until the president announced his decision. I was told that I just didn't understand loyalty to one's boss or former boss, when I pointed out he was no longer her boss.

More special hilly political calculation/expediency.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
31. UNREC'd...I did Rec........until the edits bashing the decision. Give credit where credit is due is
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:02 PM
Sep 2015

the adult response.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. Good for her.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:04 PM
Sep 2015

This is what Secretary Clinton needs to do, take actual stands and give real answers. Bravo.

More of this, less "market-focused rebranding opportunities", please.

ibegurpard

(17,077 posts)
48. No shit
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:15 PM
Sep 2015

And maybe people will start to trust her if she takes those positions and defends them!

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
50. that is going to be a biggie
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:22 PM
Sep 2015

her husbands support of nafta and her corporate ties....i will be stunned if she comes out against tpp

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
43. I guess she got "tired of waiting" for the white house to act. She sure showed them!
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:09 PM
Sep 2015

Now they have no choice but to follow her "lead."

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
111. given her announcement that she was tired of waiting on the white house to take action, etc. yes,
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:19 PM
Sep 2015

it is predictable...

Response to Catherina (Original post)

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
49. this cant be making
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:20 PM
Sep 2015

her big oil donors happy. this has gotta mean ? that she has spoken with the president.

still should have had the guts to put it out there before knowing what everyone would think.

go ahead, call me a basher. but i am with martin, she is a follower not a leader.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
52. O'Malley goes after Hillary for following, not leading:
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:25 PM
Sep 2015

“On issue after issue—marriage equality, drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants, children fleeing violence in Central America, the Syrian refugee crisis, and now the Keystone Pipeline, Secretary Clinton has followed–not forged–public opinion,” he said in a statement. “Leadership is about stating where you stand on critical issues, regardless of how they poll or focus group.”

http://time.com/4045344/hillary-clinton-keystone-pipeline-decision/

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
55. Yes he did.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:31 PM
Sep 2015

I wonder if the pope coming to town has anything to do with her sudden decision to become so concerned about this she had to speak up.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
87. I like him.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:13 PM
Sep 2015

I am supporting Bernie, for now, but could see myself supporting Martin.

I just don't want Clinton or Biden.

Renew Deal

(84,709 posts)
54. The third comment is sexist.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:30 PM
Sep 2015

"I like a man who doesn't mince his words! Well said Martin!"

Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #57)

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
68. What happened to the dancing girl in your sig line?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:47 PM
Sep 2015

I love your pictures but the girl was awesome.


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #68)

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
72. Okay, I take it back. She's not awesome.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:49 PM
Sep 2015

I try not to hate bigots but people like that make it difficult.


quickesst

(6,309 posts)
56. This thread....
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:31 PM
Sep 2015

...like every thread that has the name Hillary Clinton in it is like Groundhog Day. Full of the same petty, and juvenile attacks on her, with one trying to outdo the other in what they somehow perceive as being clever. Admittedly, I might have found some of them so when I was in junior high........and if I found it amusing to smear and belittle another human being who was the recipient of such nonsense.

Response to quickesst (Reply #56)

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
98. Oh, but they don't hate her! They just prefer another candidate!
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:39 PM
Sep 2015

What would make you think there's hatred directed towards her?

Is it comments like "It's like watching a snake change it's skin. Glowing new skin but in the end, nothing's changed underneath. ".

Some people are too sensitive!



quickesst

(6,309 posts)
105. That's my take...
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:51 PM
Sep 2015

...and no matter how many claims some folks make, there is nothing said about Bernie that reaches this level and repetition. I have my moments, but they are all in defense of Hillary who does not deserve the nasty rhetoric aimed at her. I want her to be the next president of the United States, but if Bernie gets the nod, I want no part in hurting his chances in the general. Personally, I would be ashamed if my words helped to dissuade anyone from voting for the democratic nominee whoever it may be. And thank you for your reply.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
63. I find HRC's coming out one way or the other on
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:40 PM
Sep 2015

Keystone because I heard her say she sould not interject herself into a process that was up to the President and current Sec of State. It is not a criticism. I'm just surprised that's all.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
64. Ruh roh! You know what this means, don't you?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:42 PM
Sep 2015

It's a wink wink nudge nudge opposition.

She's gotten some indication that Obama is going to approve the f@#%ing thing. Now the heats off her and she can come out against it without pissing off her oily buddies. Or else she has heard that because of the depressed price of oil, a decision has been made not to build the pipeline anyway.

She isn't doing this because she has suddenly grown a spine. She knows something we don't.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
74. Exactly. She doesn't oppose it because it's the right thing to do,
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:52 PM
Sep 2015

Or she would have come out against it a long time ago. She received some information we peons aren't allowed to know about yet.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
69. Ah, yes. She must have gotten word it's not going to be built.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:48 PM
Sep 2015

Love O'Malley 's comment on it. He has her pegged and Bernie is just kind, gentlemanly Bernie.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
73. Good news from Hillary if true.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 04:51 PM
Sep 2015

Interesting that Clinton talks and the other candidates have to respond. Doesn't work the other way around.

While I don't completely agree with O'Malleys comment completely, that is how it's done. Really happy to see some actuall aggressive campaigning and differentiation directly from a candidate on our side.

askew

(1,464 posts)
75. Hillary is basically the Democratic Mitt Romney.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:02 PM
Sep 2015

She has flip-flopped on so many issues so often that the media can't even track it any longer.

This is what tripped Obama up in the first debate with Romney. He basically lied his way through the entire debate and Obama wasn't prepared for that. I hope Bernie and Martin are prepared for Hillary to lie about every position she's ever held in her career.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
78. I guess her focus groups told her she better oppose it
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:08 PM
Sep 2015

She's flip-flopped or "evolved" on so many issues I don't know what she truly believes anymore. She just comes off to me as someone who is willing to spout any position she needs to in order to win.

Who knows what her position will be once elected.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
82. Public pressure finally got to her campaign.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:10 PM
Sep 2015

Can't let those numbers drop! Seriously, she won't take a stand on any issue unless it's pre-approved and politically convenient. Typical politician.

jkbRN

(850 posts)
86. Doesn't mean much when she helped spread cracking all over the world
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:13 PM
Sep 2015
Clinton urged Bulgarian officials to give fracking another chance. According to Borissov, she agreed to help fly in the "best specialists on these new technologies to present the benefits to the Bulgarian people." But resistance only grew. The following month in neighboring Romania, thousands of people gathered to protest another Chevron fracking project, and Romania's parliament began weighing its own shale gas moratorium. Again Clinton intervened, dispatching her special envoy for energy in Eurasia, Richard Morningstar, to push back against the fracking bans. The State Depart­ment's lobbying effort culminated in late May 2012, when Morningstar held a series of meetings on fracking with top Bulgarian and Romanian officials. He also touted the technology in an interview on Bulgarian national radio, saying it could lead to a fivefold drop in the price of natural gas. A few weeks later, Romania's parliament voted down its proposed fracking ban and Bulgaria's eased its moratorium.


She has already done too much damage throughout the world for me to vote for her in the primaries.

I am so tired of her flip-flopping on things when she has played a huge part in shutting down marriage equality, voting for the war in Iraq, and helping to speed up climate change.

Source: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

DonCoquixote

(13,944 posts)
89. credit is due
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:15 PM
Sep 2015

I was afraid the oil companies were just waiting till Obama was out, but frankly, I do not care why she did this, she did it, and credit and salutes are due.

CanadaexPat

(496 posts)
93. She had to get past her ham-fisted 'I'll tell you if you elect me' statement
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:31 PM
Sep 2015

And then just days ago she out the WH on notice that they didn't have long to decide before she would make her position known. This was a very jerky-jerky, off-the-cuff development, driven by her poor campaigning skills. Definitely not a big-league campaign organization or candidate.

CanadaexPat

(496 posts)
137. She stepped all over a major policy announcement
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:55 PM
Sep 2015

On drugs today also, that was relaxation to current headlines.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
96. O'Malley 's remarks are right on point.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:37 PM
Sep 2015

What beats me is how people put a lot of weight
on something a candidate says, when his/her
campaign is getting serious competition. She
watches. If her opponents' stand shows success,
she will join and declare it her own hard considered
position, because she knows that the MSM will
put it out all over.

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
104. Alternative route
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 05:49 PM
Sep 2015

XL Keystone has been replaced by Enbridge main line and Alberta Clipper.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
109. I guess this is a major shift from the, I'll let you know when I'm president campaign strategy to...
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:15 PM
Sep 2015

The you'll find out if I'm telling the truth policy when I'm President..

Response to Omaha Steve (Reply #110)

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
117. Round and round it goes...
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 06:27 PM
Sep 2015

And where and when Camp Weathervane stops, no one really knows!

Oh! Look!

She's "evolved"!

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
129. How about that Clinton foundation cash?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:16 PM
Sep 2015

Remember this?

Progressive Group Wants Hillary Clinton To Give Back Foundation Funding Over Keystone
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/06/hillary-clinton-keystone-xl_n_6817756.html

A progressive group is targeting Hillary Clinton over what it calls a "conflict of interest" when it comes to the Keystone XL pipeline.

Clinton, a likely 2016 Democratic presidential contender, is the subject of a new petition from CREDO Action, a liberal group that organizes online campaigns. CREDO is pressuring Clinton to give back money that the Clinton Foundation has accepted from foreign governments for its philanthropic work.

Both the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post have recently reported on the foundation's acceptance of millions of dollars from seven different foreign countries, including nations like the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Oman.

Credo is most upset about a donation from Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, a government office that has been promoting the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline. The Canadian company TransCanada is seeking to build the pipeline from Alberta's oil sands to carry oil to refineries in Texas. The office gave between between $250,000 and $500,000 to the foundation, according to the Wall Street Journal's review of the foundation's disclosures.

"Taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Canadian agency responsible for promoting Keystone XL is a stunning conflict of interest," Elijah Zarlin, senior campaign manager at CREDO, said in a statement. "If Secretary Clinton wants the trust of the American people she needs to immediately return all contributions the Clinton Foundation has received from Canada and other foreign governments."

A spokesman for the Clinton Foundation told the Wall Street Journal that the donation originated from a different office within the agency -- not the one tasked with promoting the pipeline.

The consideration of whether to grant the pipeline a permit began during Clinton's time as secretary of state. Because it crosses an international border, the Department of State has been the lead agency in the permit process. In 2010, Clinton remarked that the department was "inclined to" sign off on the pipeline, which prompted outrage from environmental groups that accused her of being biased in favor of the project. But the agency's approval process has continued well beyond Clinton's time in office, to the great annoyance of the pipeline's congressional supporters.

Hillary Clinton has generally declined to comment on whether the Keystone XL pipeline should be constructed, avoiding the topic whenever possible.

A Clinton Foundation spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


Good times!

MineralMan

(150,685 posts)
134. Good for her.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 07:30 PM
Sep 2015

It's an issue with evidence on both sides. Now, she's made a decision. Not everything is cut and dried, and this pipeline is one example. I've been on both sides of the issue, myself, and still am in some ways. Not an easy choice at all.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
140. Keystone was dead as fossil fuel prices plummeted.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 09:17 PM
Sep 2015

I'm more interested in her take on the TPP.

Hillary lately has an opinion on things that have been already decided.

I guess that bad Iraq War vote has made her a little hesitant to voice an opinion on things that still matter.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
142. It's on hold anyway because the cost of oil is down
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:16 PM
Sep 2015

so there's no political skin off her teeth in opposing it.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»BREAKING: Hillary Clinton...