Roll Call Time: how many "Non-Bernie as first choice" posters still participate in GDP

[Godhumor]

Just curious how big the number currently is.

I'm still quite active and have never hidden the fact that I support Clinton.

[randys1]

1. Doesnt matter where you post on DU, hell, if you call out racism in the AfAm

group you will get silenced.

happens everyday

[cheapdate]

28. Word.

[FSogol]

2. O'Malley supporter here. n/t

[Andy823]

44. Here also

However my time spent here on the DU Primaries Forum is a lot less as the days go by. There are some posters here who just aren't really supporting anyone, from what I see, but only come here to cause problems. Sadly many of them claim to be Bernie supporters. I don't need that kind of BS.

[DavidDvorkin]

89. And another.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. Nor should you

I supported her here last time around and it wasn't easy at times. I'll certainly support her if she wins the nomination.

[FSogol]

6. Same here. And I agree. n/t

[leftofcool]

4. Once in a while there are a few of us who still post that support Clinton.

[taught_me_patience]

5. Clinton supporter checking in

But my activity level is dwindling fast. I'm getting sick of the name calling and pure hate I see against Clinton and her supporters. The Bernie echo chamber is growing louder by the day.

[Hortensis]

16. Isn't that the best reason to drop by now and again?

I guess I just have a thick skin. Attacks bounce off, and I frequently find what happens here fascinating in an appalling way. People reveal themselves here in a way they keep hidden from "outsiders" when they are not anonymous.

It's also extremely helpful to be reminded both how very dissimilar we are capable of being and also how those who seem most different politically may actually be incredibly like each other. Not many are constant political observers. If large numbers of people ever started to coalesce behind a bad leader, the more who are early observers where political people gather the more likely we would be able to stop them.

[taught_me_patience]

35. I love checking in

but actually posting is like posting to air. We've now entered the realm of the "Bernie Sanders supporter persecution syndrome" posts. Attempting to dissuade that is akin to trying to convince Christians that they aren't the ones being persecuted since they are 80% of the population.

After super Tuesday, they'll come around.

[Chitown Kev]

37. Much of the posting on the Sierra Blanca issue taught me that

Bernie Sanders had a legitimate position.

Paul Wellstone had a similarily legitimate position.

But...all that a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters could (and can say) is that "Bernie is right"...Bernie is ALWAYS right, to them.

True enough, there were a few Bernie Sanders supporters that saw and understood and appreciated the difficulties posed by that piece of legislation.

But the self-righteousness of many Sanders supporters does mirror self-righteousness of the candidate himself and it is NOT a good look.

[Hortensis]

42. Look forward to after SuperTus then. I've looked at Sanders'

positions, but not so much at him personally, so that's interesting. I should learn a bit more about him. I have heard he finished third running for high school student body president and doubt he lacked commitment to the race, so I'm probably not missing some elusive charm on TV.

I notice you guys have been around a while. It would be interesting to hear more over time about what went on here, factions formed, etc., during other elections. 2008 seems to have been the beginning of what's happening now.

[Godhumor]

45. To be very simple. It is cyclical

Every primary season gets crazy here then it calms down again. The difference this cycle of that the support for one candidate in particular is extremely passionate and shared by a majority of the posters.

[Hortensis]

52. But do you think this majority of today's posters are

mostly a majority of those who've been here before? Is this a "sea change" in alignment, or is it accounted for by an influx of new enthusiasts who came here to support their candidate? I really lack a big picture.

[seaglass]

67. Yes most of the posters who have been outspoken in support of their candidate are long time

DUers.

There are some new posters but they are the minority. There seemed to be a lot more new posters in past Pres elections than there are this time around but maybe more will be joining after the debates.

[Number23]

93. It doesn't calm down. In 2008, DU was all Kucinich all of the time and spent so much time

trashing Obama.

And this same crowd has trashed Obama practically every single day of his time in office.

So I don't know why people keep saying "it will calm down." It hasn't once in the seven years that Obama has been in office and it won't for the next person unless the winner is Bernie Sanders.

[Godhumor]

22. Yeah, other voices are dwindling fast and a fair number of Clinton advocates are on dubious timeouts

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

But everytime I start getting frustrated with this place an absolutely hilarious thread pops up, receives hundreds of recs and amuses me more than anything else. I am still awed by the thread insisting CNN polled no one under 50 in a deliberate attempt to prop up Clinton. A while before there was a great one where multiple posters insisted that Hispanics were breaking for Bernie based off a state poll that had 3 Hispanic participants (Also led to one poster insisting repeatedly that a sample of one is big enough if picked right).

I think it is because I work in statical analysis, but I am endlessly amused by how easy it is to abuse and misinterpret polls.

[Number23]

94. I co-sign this post. The child like cluelessness of so many here is pretty precious.

I am still awed by the thread insisting CNN polled no one under 50 in a deliberate attempt to prop up Clinton. A while before there was a great one where multiple posters insisted that Hispanics were breaking for Bernie based off a state poll that had 3 Hispanic participants (Also led to one poster insisting repeatedly that a sample of one is big enough if picked right).

I remember that Hispanic thread because a Hispanic member posted a link to a Univision (I think) poll that had Hillary winning the Hispanic vote by like 40% and someone said that didn't mean anything because at a La Raza conference a few days before, the 100 people in a room to hear Bernie clapped louder than the 400 people in the room did for Hillary.

[Recursion]

7. I think all five of us O'Malley supporters can be found here sometimes (nt)

[Godhumor]

19. Up to 5 now!

Always great to have your voice.

[Andy823]

49. Sometimes

I have tried to keep kicking posts about O'Malley, but they drop like a rock, and I get tired of the same old fighting going on day after day here on this forum. As I stated before there seem to be a lot of trouble makers posting who only want to divide the board, and that's not what I come here for.

[NCTraveler]

8. O'Malley first, Clinton second. Still here.

I have a thick skin but it is becoming too much of an echo chamber for even me. When Ron Fournier is posted here to cheers, the echo chamber experiment can be considered complete.

[Eatacig]

9. Clinton supporter

Love Bernie but Clinton will be able to accomplish more. It will just
be a constant battle with Bernie Sanders.

[The Polack MSgt]

10. Can I still be undecided?

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Cripes people, the election is in 57 weeks. There have been no head to head debates. Take a damn deep breath.

I respect Bernie, mainly for his steadfast support of veterans issues. But he has no mountain of accomplishments in his 25 years in DC to point at to impress me. Being consistent and "genuine" is great and all, but what have you GOT DONE?

I respect Clinton for her accomplishments in government service and for surviving decades of a concerted campaign of lies distortions and made up scandals. That woman is tough and I respect her. But having a record means having a record to defend. So I just need to watch listen and learn.

I will say that the die hard partisans on DU don't do their candidates any favors

[Hortensis]

11. Oh, I'm still adding a voice here, but I'm giving up pretending

I think Bernie could somehow win the primary, or that it would be anything but a disaster in 2016. Building even brief consensuses on a forum where indulging hostility is the chief pleasure and genuine irrationality the norm would be a task for Pope Francis (accompanied by full security detail of course).

I still very much hope Bernie's candidacy will ultimately help our nation once again begin a new era of progressive achievement and advancement for all.

[workinclasszero]

12. Me

Hillary is my choice. Can you tell? LOL

Been banned once and got two hides against me right now.

This is a Bernie board now, no doubt. We still can state our opinion till we are driven off for good, I guess.

[elleng]

13. O'Malley supporter here,

I participate and post to inform.

[Aerows]

76. And you are invaluable at doing so elleng

You and bigtree have been tireless at getting the word out for O'Malley. I truly hope we see a surge in support after the first debate.

Honestly, I think he's going to smack it out of the park!

[elleng]

84. Thanks, Aerows,

and I am cautiously optimistic. He'll surely do well, but the results of that?

[Aerows]

85. O'Malley has a LOT of substance

He's not an also-ran like Webb and Chafee.

[elleng]

86. Yes he has,

but given the interests of so many in OTHER things than substance, I hesitate to anticipate the effect.

[Aerows]

87. Campaigning is what it is

Ride it out through the bad times, cheer the good times.

I won't lie - I'll be overjoyed when the primaries are over because they suck.

[kenn3d]

14. Numerous GD-P Poll posts have been conducted...

...since I joined DU (quite recently). They have all ended with roughly 80-90% voting Sanders, 8-10% Clinton, and the remainder scattered or undecided.
Here's the most recent one (with fewer respondents overall than I recall having voted in earlier polls) :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251611042

I find this intriguing, and wonder if other political or specifically Democratic forums show this same trend? The national polls we all love to argue about here definitely do not reflect such an overwhelming landslide for Sanders. In fact quite the opposite, although some of us might argue that the balance is definitely shifting from Hillary towards Bernie.

Anyway, I don't think you'll get an accurate count from this thread really. Maybe you could fashion a proper poll and we could all really GOTV here on DU.

I respect your knowledge of statistics and would be very interested to see if a more rational result could be produced here.

[taught_me_patience]

15. We know man - Bernie is at 90% here at DU

This thread is for supporters of other candidates to check in and give an assessment of how they are feeling, not about statistics. Read through the responses... you could learn something. Non-Bernie supporters are feeling left out, unwanted, and degraded for the most part.

[Godhumor]

18. No question DU is in the Bernie Camp

But I wasn't interested in a poll to reaffirm that fact. Really, I just wanted a place where anyone from the minority can chime in that a) they're still actively participating in GDP and b) how they feel about doing so.

As for your first question, DU is a self selected microcosm that doesn't reflect broader population norms. All non-troll members are here because we identified this as a place that meets our needs and interests. It shouldn't be surprising that members of such an enclave gravitate towards idealistic candidates.

Edit: Didn't realize TMP had replied before I posted.

Also on edit, DU is interesting in that its membership is overwhelmingly for Bernie, but the site founder, Skinner, is for Clinton.

[Bobbie Jo]

29. Well

Also on edit, DU is interesting in that its membership is overwhelmingly for Bernie, but the site founder, Skinner, is for Clinton.

Hell, Skinner doesn't even post here anymore.

[Godhumor]

34. I imagine the founder getting entangled in GDP drama would send the wrong message

Just him announcing he supported Clinton was met with a lot of "DU is in the bag for Clinton!" proclamations.

[Bobbie Jo]

47. Ugh

I never was one to care much for walking on eggshells.

Next month I will have been here for 10 years. I've never seen it like this.

The threats, stalking, swarming, bullying, my time here is kept to a minimum these days.

Maybe after the primaries...

[Andy823]

51. I agree

I came here back in 2007. Went away for awhile, came back and posted some noticing there seemed to be a group of posters who always seemed to be posting negative things about Obama. Left, came back a few years back to post again, and notice that crowd had gotten much bigger. Now it seems the same crowd not only goes after Obama, but Hillary, and just about anyone else who they disagree with. Sadly they call themselves supporters of Bernie, even though they don't act like it. Constant bashing day in and day out is not the way to unite the board, but it sure as hell is a good way to divide it!

[Bobbie Jo]

55. I guess the thing that sealed it

for me was watching the vile BLM reaction. I saw some of the ugliest comments (from so-called progressives) that I've seen posted anywhere. Anywhere.

Some things you just can't un-see.

Agree with your thoughts as well...

[FSogol]

59. +1. Agreed. n/t

[Andy823]

63. Their reaction on BLM

Was way over board. It pretty much confirmed my view that a lot of so called "Bernie supporters" are not really what they claim to be. That was used to cause a lot of problems here.

[workinclasszero]

48. He probably doesn't trust the jury system now

either.

[Chitown Kev]

21. I'm a DK regular

DK is pretty bad (about 65-35 Sanders) and there are quite a few Hillary supporters that have left Kos or who rarely post....same general pattern as here, not quite as bad.

I'm an undecided voter who has been critical of all parties...

[Jesus Malverde]

61. I don't send any time at Dk

Interesting to see the rise of Bernie is not exclusive to DU. I think it's a real grass roots movement.

It's on fire.

Living in the Bay Area I've only seen one Hillary sticker and I see Bernie signs or shirts daily.

AstroTurf looks like a pale plastic fake when put next to real grass roots.

[Chitown Kev]

64. But far too many of Bernie's supporters are self-righteous assholes (especially online)

and it turns this particular uncommitted black voter off.

And many (uncommitted) black voters have been saying this.

[Jesus Malverde]

65. It's a myth there is a Bernie problem with the black community

It's a myth.

[Chitown Kev]

66. Define "a Bernie problem" for me, please.

[Armstead]

92. What's the difference between a self righteous asshole and....

someone who is very enthusiastic and has strong beliefs and advocates for them?

Sure there is a lot of self-righteous assholery among Sanders suppoters. (I've probably committed my share of that.) But how is that different than the assholery to be found among enthusiastic supporters of any candidate or cause?

[upaloopa]

30. What good is a poll that shows most people

posting here support Sanders? DU is a bubble. It in no way represents the real world. And I also don't see Bernie getting better than + or - 25% over the last couple of months. Hillary has lead in every poll but NH and I think that is because they include Biden who isn't running.
I have been knocked off this board twice with bogus hides and so have others but it didn't help Bernie's campaign. So go ahead and run us off, it still won't change the inevitable outcome.

[RichVRichV]

82. It's same all over social media.

It's pretty simple. Younger people are dominately going for Bernie. Older people are dominately going for Hillary. Younger people prefer to get thier info online, older people prefer television. It's largely a battle of the ages and a battle of mediums.


I'm not in any way implying there aren't younger people going for Hillary or older people going for Bernie. I'm strictly talking averages.


One mistake I think the major polling is making is under counting young voters and over counting older voters. In normal elections that is valid since older people are more reliable voters. However, I don't think this is going to be a normal election based on young involvement to this point.

[PragmaticLiberal]

17. O'Malley supporter here.

[brooklynite]

20. I wasn't aware that this was an issue...

[Godhumor]

23. Call it a thread to find out if it is an issue, then

Like I said, I posted in curiosity, as I am in here everyday and pretty active doing so.

[bunnies]

24. Most of them are busy bashing DU and DUers on another site.

They're far too brilliant and advanced to stoop to DU levels.

[upaloopa]

32. Do you ever ask yourself why that is?

Just about everyone there has been stalked and run off this board. Pot calling the kettle black is what your post is.

[bunnies]

33. Ive not done a damn thing.

Sure as hell not run off to another site and start bashing other Democrats. You?

[upaloopa]

36. That site was started because we were alert

stalked by Bernie supporters until we had enough hides to get run off DU for a period of time, me twice. So we gathered somewhere else where Bernie supporters can't get to us.
I am proud of my fellow Hillary supporters and proud to have a place where we can gather without being attacked. You ?

[bunnies]

38. Im glad you have a place where you can gather without being attacked.

But Im disgusted that the main purpose seems to be to insult Sanders supporters. Yeah. There are assholes on *both* sides of this primary battle. But the vitriol and hatred and insults are just not necessary. The problem with using broad brushes is that everyone gets covered in paint.

But what do I know... Im just a stupid cult member. Right?

[upaloopa]

43. Well your side has earned a reputation

in social media and it isn't a nice one. We don't have that.
On edit:
I don't like many of the Bernie supporters on DU. That started a few months ago. I know that many of them do not like us either. I never thought that DU would come to this. Under a different name I was one of the first people to join DU. I came here with a few others from a different Dem board that allowed freepers to post there. It was always them against us. So when DU was started we came here.
Today DU is just like that other Dem board the way we fight each other here.

[bunnies]

60. Im not on social media so I'll just have to take your word on that.

I just think that what this has quickly devolved into is really, really sad. Now Im reading, on that other site, a new OP about tossing Sanders supporters out of the party. Fuck em. We dont need em. And all that. *sigh* It just sucks.

[upaloopa]

68. I read that and replied that we need to forgive each other

[Jackilope]

80. just my opinion, but ....

.... a majority of the alternative site posting is mean spirited and accuses any that support Sanders as not being Democrats. It is a hate fest. How is that elevated discussion? "F the bern"? Really?

I am fairly new to posting on DU, but lurked for years. Catty new sites bashing members isn't helping any cause. We are all past junior high. My opinion,

[Electric Monk]

79. For some of them, the answer is simply 5 or more hides here in 90 days or less. nt

[seaglass]

69. Kind of like Discussionist - a site created by the Admins that allows exactly what you describe? n/t

[MineralMan]

25. I still participate, but not as much as I'd like.

Even if I post something that mentions no candidates at all, but is just about the primaries in general, I get jumped on. People know that I support Clinton, so anything I say is obviously pro-Clinton in people's minds. Even if all I'm saying is that we should try to be civil. I'll be sticking around, though. Insults roll off my back like water on a duck.

People who support Clinton should not be afraid to post in GD (GD-P). Truly they should not.

[upaloopa]

26. I post here and support Hillary.

I find some of the other side's posts very amusing especially the latest ones about our secret Hillary site.
I had most Berie supporters on ignore but yesterday took a bunch off to get a better understanding of the situation here. It sucks.
What I don't get is how bashing Hillary helps Bernie. Or how knocking Hillary supporters off DU helps Bernie.
Reality is that there is no Bernie vs Hillary race. The race is and always has been between Hillary and the repubs. Bernie is trying to break into that contest but he can't get enough support to join it.
Now back to our secret hiding place.

[restorefreedom]

41. criticizing policy is not bashing

many of us want to debate policy positions, but if we say anything negative about her positions or voting history we are labled haters or bashers.

how does that help the conversation?

[Snap the Turtle]

81. That part I don't really get

is that a Bernie supporter wants to discuss issues, and they're already attacked. What effort has any Hillary Clinton supporters here to discuss issues? I see two pieces over the weekend: the drug price cap, and the college plan. Both indirectly enriches the 1% while continuing to screw the poor/middle class.

Bernie's plans benefits everyone, not just the 1%. The free college plan is paid for, and Bernie's health care plan saves trillions and everyone is covered like it should be.

Clinton recently copied Bernie's ideas of reimporting drugs from Canada.

So far, Clinton's ideas has been a carbon-copy of "me too!" ideas that are praised as innovative until it's revealed it's a copy of a Bernie plan.

Therefore, Clinton has really nothing new to offer to the American people, except for the 1%.

[gwheezie]

78. That secret Hillary site thread is a hoot

"I swear HRC is coming to lock this thread" cracked me up.

[Gothmog]

27. I am still participating

[Raine1967]

31. O'Malley supporter here.

[BooScout]

39. I'll come in and say this....

I am pretty much staying out of GDP.

There is no point to try and engage or have a conversation here any more. The personal insults and attacks are rampant. There is constant stalking of posters. Someone posted my real name here a couple of weeks ago. Thankfully they took it down, but the damage was done.

People have stalked Hillary supporters to another site, taken posts from there out of context, done screen captures, twisted and distorted everything they can to try foment disruptions and divide and conquer.

I for one am sick of it. I love a good debate but this sort of atmosphere is not healthy, physically, mentally or for the Democrats in general.

I will also say this....I post at several places on the web, some are Hillary friendly sites, some are Democrats only sites and some are sites that allow conservative, moderate and liberal viewpoints from their members. I have never seen the level of vitriol I have seen here lately and it seems as if has reached a boiling point.

So in answer to your question, no... I am normally not posting much in GDP any more. I no longer feel welcome or safe here.

[Godhumor]

40. It is a shame. Loved having you on the same threads as I

Take care.

[Skidmore]

46. Undecided and unimpressed.

And noone has moved me from that spot yet.

[bigwillq]

50. Who would you like to see run?

or who were you hoping would run?

I'm a bit disappointed that DEMS don't have more options this cycle.

[Skidmore]

53. I just don't know.

I am deeply uneasy about this election. Frankly I am more concerned about the lack of attention to the congressional and state races.

[bigwillq]

54. Good point.

Thanks for getting back.

[seaglass]

70. Hey I'm with you Skidmore. I'll end up voting for one of them but I don't feel passion or trust for

any of them.

[Thinkingabout]

56. I am a Hillary supporter and there are too many trashers who repeat the same talking points debunked

Many times. What is the result, I dont believe the stories. Yes I post on the other site and read lots of posts, we are not having the interruptions, makes discussions very nice. Accusing our members of falsehoods can just remain, I dont read the crap.

[artislife]

74. Thank you for being honest about h's supporters. nt

[Gloria]

57. Rarely, esp. when a fact check is needed

These posts are generally ignored or mocked indicating that no one is really thinking at all, so I'm not doing that even very much anymore...

I've mostly gone elsewhere...

[liberal N proud]

58. This circus is just too much fun

Reading all the attacks and denials and justifications when the facts don't support the followers desires.

[oasis]

62. It's not that hard to come to an understanding if we respect

each other enough to take the time to re-discover how closely allied we really are at DU.

[mythology]

71. I don't have a preference

I will gladly vote for any of the candidates other than Webb, and in the end I would vote for him given the phalanx of idiots on the Republican side.

Based on their common Senate votes, there was a 7 percent difference between Sanders and Clinton. Not a huge difference to me.

[ismnotwasm]

72. I no longer really particlpate

I never really did much. I'm really bad at snark, and silly back and forth "debates" I lose patience and move on to different activities--anything else really--In 2004 and 2008 I didn't care, I just wanted Democrat to win the primary. So at DU, this is my first experience supporting a primary candidate here.

You know, it's not surprising DU went for Sanders. It's the constant Clinton trashing that first shocked me, then annoyed me. I don't have time for it on a Democratic board.

Ultimately I will vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever that is. O'Malley is my second choice.

[Walk away]

73. I just stopped by today because I heard about this post....

DU is becoming a real cesspool. There are so many more fun and interesting places to spend time. It you support a Democrat like Hillary, Martin O'Malley or even if you hope Joe will run, you should seek them out. The Bernie supporters troll around on our sites but it doesn't matter. Little by little they will grow and get better and when Bernie goes back to the Senate we can forget about him. It won't be pleasant around here when that happens.

It seems that eventually, anyone not supporting Bernie will be pushed out of here anyway. It's a good idea to expand ones horizons and have several places to spend time. Then you can decide where you fit best.

[artislife]

88. Expand away

So meta. This like marking a territory and then trotting off.

[Walk away]

90. I have been here several years and (until the anti Obama/pro Bernie crowd took over)....

I supported DU financially as well. I don't need to stake my territory here. This place is free for any Democrat to come and go from.

As I said, I only come here to support my friends who are all working hard to get a Democrat elected as the POTUS and help build a great group of Democrats who can post on a site that supports actual Democrats.

I have just as much right as any BS supporter to post here but if you feel that anyone that doesn't support your candidate, doesn't belong here, let me know.

[Aerows]

75. I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter

but I also *REALLY* like O'Malley and hope he knocks it out of the park during the first debate.

That said, everybody should feel free to share their opinion on GDP. Everyone has the right to disagree with everyone else's opinions, but no one has the right to silence those who disagree with them.

That's not what a discussion board is all about. A discussion board is about ... discussing!

Peace - I think no matter how ardent we become, it is important to remember that we have a common goal - getting Democrats elected. Local, State as well as national. Don't forget the Democrats that are running in your neck of the woods and the people that are running in your state. They are EXTREMELY important too.



'Climbs down off of soapbox'



Okay, done preaching about the importance of voting for local and state Dems. I didn't mean to bore you or sound like I was lecturing (okay, I guess I did) but PLEASE keep it in mind. We can't take the country back from Republicans unless we do it one district at a time, one state at a time, and one voter at a time.

[Android3.14]

83. I agree

O'Malley is a good second choice.

I totally understand why the HRC supporters are scurrying off. It has to be disheartening to realize your candidate has lead herself into an epic train wreck. If Mr. Sanders were/is unable to keep his momentum (knock on wood), I'd probably go silent as well, at least until after the primaries.

That being said, the persons who are heading off to another site to badmouth DU members are a different class of person entirely. Such behavior shows a pathetic cowardice and petty shallowness that should make other HRC supporters pause to ask whether they want others to consider them a part of that group.

It's unfortunate.

[FarPoint]

77. I post as I please.

Debate and discuss as I please...

[hack89]

91. It's like a car wreck - I can't look away no matter how hard I try. nt