Did you ever notice that some people never want to talk about issues?

[mhatrw]

I would love to read more discussions on so many critical issues about who favors the stances of which candidate and why.

Whose stances on the issues so you feel are closer to your own and why? What would your personal platform be? Which candidate's current platform is closest to your own personal platform, in your opinion?

I feel that this kind of dialog between thoughtful Democrats would be incredibly constructive and instructive.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I completely agree, and I don't know why we aren't doing more of that.

It's frustrating.

[99th_Monkey]

10. I know, but I don't want a hide, so I'll pass. -nt-

[yardwork]

15. I'm surprised to hear you say that.

You recced a decidedly non-issues based thread right here in this forum. The purpose of that thread was to mock and demean others while running around in circles high fiving and giggling like a bunch of five year olds.

So which is it?

[MineralMan]

18. People recommend threads for many reasons, really.

Looking at lists of who recommended a thread seems like a waste of time to me. Pointing out recommendations to make some sort of point seems a petty sort of thing to do, somehow. Lots of people recommend threads so they can find them quickly later.

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. Control freak much?

Do you think your special nastygram is going to control how she recs in the future, so it's more to your liking? I'd doubt it, and I'd hope not.

That post is just the kind of thing that disgusts me the most. Very popular in certain circles.

[NCTraveler]

33. I don't think I have ever looked at who revved a thread.

Might have but I don't remember it. That thought process is right in line with the op. Deeply about personalities and not issues. The ops concern is addressing just what you did here, all while you try to make it look like its on her. The op is talking to you. Talking to me for that matter as well.

[yardwork]

34. I rarely look at who recs threads but I did for one.

You're right - I should stay out of this site. Nobody I know in real life acts this way.

[NCTraveler]

36. Last sentence is spot on.

Looking at rec to determine opposition. No one in real life would make an assumption based on so little. I have done similar.

[liberal_at_heart]

2. I absolutely love Bernie's platform on a $15/hr minimum wage, Medicare for All,

tuition free college, and the fact that he does not have a super PAC.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

3. I'm against war in the vast majority of cases.

That propels a lot of my political ideology. More broadly, I always, but always take the side of the underdog against the powerful. Everything else flows from that. That leaves only one candidate for me to support and vote for.

[Fumesucker]

4. We probably ultimately agree too much for "issues" to take up a lot of time

The real friction spots on DU seem to almost always boil down to tactics and personalities.

[jfern]

5. There's some pretty major differences between Hillary and Sanders

Iraq war, TPP, single payer healthcare, Glass Steagall, just to name a few.

[Fumesucker]

6. OK.. Anti, anti, pro, pro

And I suspect you probably agree with me on at least three of the four.



Now, back to tactics and personalities.

[mhatrw]

7. How about a tax on Wall Street speculation? How about NSA spying?

How about ending our for profit "justice system"?

These are all important issues to me as well.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. It's always, "Who do you like?" instead of "What do you want?".

[Hortensis]

35. For zealots that seems defining, with its concomitant "who do you hate," not everyone else.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. Seeking purity within the ranks is always fun to watch....

Instead of welcoming everyone they first talk of infiltrators and after their ranks have thinned they turn upon each other until they're down to suspecting each other's motives and loyalty.

[Hortensis]

40. You have been watching obviously. Anyone who disagrees with the group

in some way being an enemy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. It's a pattern in every group of zealots....

In Algeria the military sent infiltrators into the ranks of the Islamic extremists to push the ideology to where they started to kill each other.

[Juicy_Bellows]

9. I try and on occasion I succeed.

It's a damn rare thing though.

[Major Hogwash]

11. For me, it's very easy to choose who I want to be the next candidate for the Democrats.

If the discussions are based on issues, I simply plug in my ACME vote-a-matic, set the main switch to "ISSUES", and then turn the dial until it points to the name of the person I want to represent me.

When I turn the dial a little bit to the right, the pointer is just below Hillary Clinton's name.
So then, when I turn the dial a little bit to the left, the pointer is just below O'Malley's name.
And then if I really want to get all cray cray and shit, I turn it farther to the left until it hits 11, and then the pointer is just below Sanders' name.

Easy peasy.

[Armstead]

21. Social Security, Medicare, the Interstate Hwy System, Civil Rights, etc would all be way on the left

I can just imagine if there were no Social Security program, and some pimary candidate proposed it in their platform.


Whooooooo weeeeeee, you metr would break itself trying to move that far to the left.

Likewise with so many other programs we take for granted today.

[Scuba]

12. You're obviously filled with hate!

sarcasm thingy here for those without the gene

[Motown_Johnny]

13. That is completely rational and I support it whole heartedly .

Unfortunately, some people's support is visceral. They "feel" things, they "believe" things and have no real rational basis for those feelings or beliefs.

You can't have a rational discussion about issues when the people with whom you are attempting to have that discussion do not have rational points of view to present.

[wyldwolf]

14. Politics is much more than discussing and agreeing on issues

It's the difference between pragmatists and idealists. It's the art of compromise. It's the art of getting 50% of what you want instead of 100% of nothing.

One could also easily ask 'did you ever notice that some people avoid discussing how an ideologue can win an election and then govern effectively with a divided electorate.'

But some will no doubt disagree.

As for your actual question, I've spent hours... days... discussing issues.

[mhatrw]

19. So anyone who believes what all of us believe is an ideologue?

Anyone who believes that the primary function of government should be to help out the average citizens of that government is an ideologue?

Could it be that Sanders can only be considered an ideologue by those who refuse to consider and discuss his ideas?

[DanTex]

25. All the Dem candidates believe the primary function of government should be to help out

average citizens.

[mhatrw]

29. So why is the NSA spying on us all then?

Why is student loan debt so high?

Why are public colleges so expensive?

Why does 50% of our income and more than 50% of our wealth go the top 1%?

Why don't we have a universal, single payer health system?

Why do we pay 50 to 150% more for our prescription drugs than all other countries do?

Why do we have the highest incarceration by far among all first and second world countries?

Why is the minimum wage so low?

[DanTex]

31. The answer to most of that is, Republicans.

The other answer is that most issues are not black and white. For example, universal health care and single payer are not the same thing. We'd be a lot closer to universal health care if not for Republican opposition and obstruction. It wouldn't be single payer, it would be a system more like the Swiss or the Dutch have, which is fine with me.

[mhatrw]

32. I happen to like single payer better. Why the hell should insurance companies profit

when it is cheaper to cut them out?

[Recursion]

41. Because it's not always cheaper

Medicare and Medicaid both contract out extensively to for-profit insurers because even with the profit taken into account they can do it cheaper.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. pragmatists have been in control for over 30 years now. The middle class is disappearing.

You have had your chance, and it has failed. It is time for something different.

[artislife]

26. I think you are saying "reality based"

and I don't know where you think the Right will love doing business with H any better than Bernie.



Have you seen the froth around their mouths? Or is that too reality based?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. You can't "compromise" with the current Republican Party. That leads to being half crazy....

Haven't you noticed the way the Beltway acts?

When a Republican wins all of the talk is about the American People gave them a mandate to carry out their agenda and the Dems need to admit defeat and get out of the way.

When a Democrat wins all of the talk is about how they have to reach out to heal the division and if the Republicans refuse to go along than the Democrat has been deemed a failure.

It's a game to them. You don't HAVE to play it.

[sabrina 1]

16. Yes, for some people the discussion of issues is what they want to prevent, calling any critique of

a candidate's stand on issues, 'bashing'. This is what Corporate Money is used for, to hire smear mongers like David Brock to create negative garbage to distract from the issues.

[oberliner]

17. What are the issues where the Democratic candidates most disagree?

Can you identify some of the ones that you think there are major differences of opinion are?

If so, maybe we can present a fair representation of each candidate's position and look at the pros and cons of each.

I think that's a great idea and what DU should be all about.

[mhatrw]

20. NSA spying, global trade agreements, breaking up too big to fail banks,

raising taxes on the top 0.1%, reinstituting the inheritance tax, reforming our broken "justice system" ,,,

These are the ones that spring to my mind.

[Recursion]

24. So far the difference is mostly tribalism

I don't think anybody could say with any kind of realistic confidence what specifically a Sanders administration would accomplish that a Clinton administration would not, or vice versa (and, yes, that's true for O'Malley too; I just happen to find his ideas very substantive and largely in agreement with what I think).

The fight right now is about whether one of "us" or one of "them", for some value of "us" and "them", should be the candidate.

[mhatrw]

30. Really?

https://www.isidewith.com/

I filled in everything, expanded everything out, and included how strongly I feel about each topic.

I got a 97% match with Sanders, a 79% match with O'Malley, and a 68% match with Clinton.

[Recursion]

22. Check out the Martin O'Malley group if you like issues!

We eat, drink, and breathe them there.

[Hortensis]

27. Money OUT of politics. Election reform. Battle global warming. Fresh water

depletion battle. Wall Street reform. A living wage for full-time work. Lessening income inequality, to include destruction of our megamillion/billionaire class. Religion out of government. Tax dollars out of religion. Religion out of public schools. Education finance reform; first two years college 100% subsidized. Continued healthcare reform. Medication availability reform. And more.

Although I want powerful, not minor changes, in all, the only candidate whose stances matter is the Democratic candidate with the best chance of being elected.

All conservative candidates oppose my issues, and many are completely inimical.

[99Forever]

37. Hard to discuss issues...

... when your candidate "evolves" constantly as to where they stand on the important ones or refuses to take a stand at all.

My candidate is now and always has been quite clear about his positions and has worked HARD to try and do what he promises.

Theirs?

Not so much. Ever.

[frylock]

39. The issue to a lot of folks is how much money their candidate can amass..

the true one-issue voters.

[treestar]

43. Those require some thought

And people who are mere balls of rage only want to cut things down and exclude other people.

Note who goes on about the third way etc. not even willing to work with fellow Democrats. Trying to pretend they don't belong.

Digging up ancient posts to pretend to be better than others by misrepresenting them. These are children. Issues mean nothing.