Hillary's impassioned rant against Snowden base on delusion

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

FIRST, whistleblower laws that would have protected Snowden didn't exist at that time. Second, there are no laws in place today that protect contractors, which is a BFD since the vast majority of intelligence workers are contractors ( you know, because the private sector does everything better; that, and they aren't going to be protected by whistleblower laws). Third, whistleblower laws that protect government employees were enacted post-Snowden.

With the others' unwillingness to challenge Hillary here, on her Iraq vote, and other issues, gives her carte blanche to revise history.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/14/hillary-clinton/clinton-says-nsa-leaker-snowden-failed-use-whistle/

[rjsquirrel]

1. As she spit out her stupid answer to the Snowden question

I looked at my wife and said "this is why I just can't vote for that phony and warmonger."

Nope. Wrote a check to Bernie as my next move. I'll be voting Bernie in the NYS dem primary, and I don't care who she's running against, but I will not pull a lever for Ms. Clinton even in the general.

Pardon Snowden. He's a hero.

The queen of email security calling Snowden a traitor to win right wing praise in swing states. Laughable.

[COLGATE4]

2. Are you sure you're posting on the right board?

Sounds like FR might be more to your taste.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

3. You approve of RW tactics, i.e. revisionist lies...

You might be a Republican

[BainsBane]

5. like voting for immunity for gun corporations

and then claiming you didn't in front of millions of people?

Like blaming the mentally ill for gun violence?

[hootinholler]

7. Now who is making shit up?

I must have missed that part, but I'm sure you can provide the transcript, right?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

8. As much as I don't like Bernie's position on guns...

with everything that's wrong in this country today! guns hardly rate with me! I can't imagine guns are at the top of but a handful of people's list in the US today.

You'll be hard pressed to find a single anyone who doesn't want mental illness to be a screening mechanism when purchasing a gun.

Wow, what a jumbled post!

[BainsBane]

9. Well, must be nice to live in a place

where you don't have to worry about gun violence, where women don't get shot taking their babies to the park or waiting at the bus stop, or where you don't get your car and apartment windows shot out in a drive by. But how could the lives of me and those in my community rate compared to a great man like Snowden. Clearly my priorities are totally messed up. I really need to learn how inconsequential the lives of people in urban America are compared to great men.

My post is hardly jumbled. You clearly don't know much about the issue. The mentally ill are less likely to commit violence than the general population but are more likely to be victims of violence. If you want to codify second class citizenship and discourage people from seeking treatment for mental illness, Bernie's plan is the way to go. Oh, BTW, it just so happens that the NRA faults the mentally ill for gun violence as well. I'm sure that's like a total coincidence.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

13. If you want to make it personal, it's awesome to...

Live in Chicago (no gun violence here! Lol) driving around the city all day and carrying cash but no weapon, as do WOMEN in my field.

Again, you flopped on the MI point. There isn't support for your position. People don't want guns in the the hands of the mentally ill. Pay more attention.

[BainsBane]

14. Let me understand this

You would judge the 25 percent of Americans who suffer from mental illness a lesser category of citizen, who should not have the same rights as use for the crime of seeking treatment for mental illness? Is that what you are saying? Propensity toward violence is irrelevant. The fact they are labeled "mentally ill" is what matters?

What you say "people want" is irrelevant. People didn't want blacks to vote; they didn't want equal rights for LGBT. It is hardly a surprise that they want the mentally ill denied the same rights as others enjoy. I don't know polling data on that particular subject but I'll take you for your word on it. Rights, however, are not granted or denied based on popular opinion. You want to ensure a population CDC data shows are less likely to commit violence denied guns, while ensuring those who are more likely to commit violence has access to them. How do you suppose that addresses the problem of gun violence?

It certainly is personal. You are going on about how Snowden is a hero and gun violence is less important, which is to say the lives of the 32,000 Americans killed every year matter less than the horror of a presidential candidate not recognizing that Snowden is more important than other human beings and should be treated as a hero. I most certainly do take that personally. I take it personally when people treat me as less because they value a select few over the many, and that they relegate a huge portion of this nation's citizens to second-class status because they can't bother to inform themselves even marginally on the relationship between mental illness and violent crime--which is in fact inverse.

I am fully within my rights to vote based on personal concerns--meaning the deluded notion that my life matters compared to the great men you would elevate above me. I understand some have no problem declaring many Americans as less worthy, as the enemy because we fail to vote as we are told. I however do not share such a hierarchical, anti-egalitarian nature of society. In violates my core values of human equality and social justice.

For the record, I oppose the NSA surveillance that Snowden uncovered. I am glad that information is now publicly known. I care about reigning in the surveillance state, but Snowden as an individual doesn't rank anywhere on my list of priorities since I do not and will not exalt a few great men above everyone else. I understand that notion is completely at odds with the popular great man view of politics, but as I noted, that entire value system is completely at odds with my own. And I do get to vote in my own interests rather than in Snowden's as unacceptable as you may find that.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

17. You wrote too much...

Let's take it from the top. Where did I say that?

I did say there's little support for your ideas now. People don't want guns in the hands of the mentally ill. Yada yada. Pay attention (to the news) not your movement. It's going to be a long road and heavy lift for people to support your (guns for MI too) movement. Boy, and if you're trying to advance the rights of the MI you are FOOLISHLY barking up the wrong tree. The MI have bigger battles to fight, now. Don't selfishly push your egregiously MISGUIDED agenda now or you'll set the movement back years.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

18. Point taken...

I've said this or that is "nuts" or "crazy" or "insane" all my life and "the mentally ill" for half of my life.

You're right. Guilty as charged. It's a tough habit for me to break for sure, and I know better!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

19. Do you know what H says about "THE mentally ill"? No

Hillary's comprehensive background check:

Keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, other violent criminals, and the severely mentally ill.
It makes no sense that in America dangerous and unstable (OMG unstable is ugly language) individuals can obtain deadly weapons. As president, Clinton will:

Improve existing law prohibiting persons suffering from severe mental illness (well, that's better) from purchasing or possessing a gun. The ATF should finalize its rulemaking to close loopholes in our laws and clarify that people involuntarily committed to outpatient treatment, such as the Virginia Tech shooter, are prohibited from buying guns.


Darn! Hillary is systematically creating second class citizenship for people who've been involuntarily committed to OUTPATIENT treatment, no less!!!



I know people who should be able to get a gun but couldn't under Hillary's law.

You failed this big time.

For you, this has to be Hillary's "Uhhh...oooops!" Moment

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/p/briefing/factsheets/2015/10/04/clinton-believes-its-time-to-tackle-gun-violence/

[BainsBane]

4. Bernie didn't say Snowdon was a hero

He said he should be prosecuted, but you evidently paid no attention to that.

Snowdon is hardly an issue in swing states. Most voters care about jobs, how they are going to survive, not the few great men the keyboard intelligentsia decides are more important than the rest of us.

There is one candidate openly courting GOP votes, and it isn't Clinton.

I'd also think more carefully about who you call a phony. One candidate got at least two false ratings for completely misstating his record and facts, and it wasn't Clinton.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

6. To the point of the OP, did Bernie make shit up about whistleblower laws?

I'll tell you what is going to play everywhere. Hillary making shit up. People don't trust her now. She needs to stop making shit up.

[BainsBane]

10. He "made up shit"

On two different subjects: his vote on immunity for gun CORPORATIONS; and the unemployment rate of African Americans and Hispanic youth. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/politics/democratic-debate-fact-check/

Reality check: Did Bernie Sanders protect gun manufacturers from lawsuits?

CNN's Anderson Cooper grilled Sanders repeatedly on whether he was protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits. After some explaining, Sanders landed on a simple answer: "Of course not."

Sanders has been nailed by liberals and his Democratic opponents for his positions on gun control, including his decision to vote against the Brady bill and for allowing Amtrak riders to bring guns in checked bags. And his comment during the debate sounded like a sharp stance in favor of clamping down on gun manufacturers, defending his vote to shield them from litigation as part of a "large and complicated bill."

"Where you have manufacturers and where you have gun shops knowingly giving guns to criminals or aiding and abetting that, of course we should take action," he said Tuesday night.

But in a July interview with CNN, Sanders sounded starkly different, saying that gun manufacturers could not be held responsible. The sole difference was that in that interview Sanders did not say the manufacturer was aware of the crime that would later be committed.

"If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murderer and that murderer kills somebody with the gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible?" he asked. "Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer. That is not what a lawsuit should be about."

VERDICT: False

Then he showed himself entirely out of his depth on foreign policy, not that foreign policy actually relates to the presidency compared to an encyclopedic knowledge of whistleblower laws and the clear determination to hold a handful of great men above the rest of humanity.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

12. Doesn't "I trusted BushCo" fall under Foreign Policy?

Bernie is wrong on guns, but if I made a list of 20 issues, guns would rank 20 and breaking the glass ceiling for HILLARY 19. Elizabeth Warren breaking the glass ceiling, top o' the table.

[BainsBane]

15. Yes, and Sanders was right on that

He voted right. Clinton did not. However this is not 2002. In the debate, Sanders showed himself unequipped to deal with the foreign policy issues of the present. I like his vote on the IWR, I like it so much I think he should stay in the Senate and make similar votes in the future.

Your admiration for Reagan supporters aside, notions of glass ceilings and equal rights for women mean nothing if they don't apply to all of us. You are fully within your rights to vote for whomever you damn well please for any reason you please, but the articulation of the idea of a glass ceiling for some and not others is something I find troubling. We weren't even discussing gender, yet you decided to make a list of priorities in which gender equality matters for one woman but not another.

You expressed anger that Clinton "made shit up" about whistleblower laws, yet completely ignored the evidence regarding Sanders own departure from the truth in regard to his voting record on guns. So let's not pretend "making shit up" matters. What matters is that Clinton failed to pay homage to the greatness that is Edward Snowden. Which, BTW, Bernie likewise failed to do and argued that he should pay legal consequences for his actions.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. Which thread is this? Hillary FOS or Hillary's IW vote?

Bad gun policy < The U.S. led invasion of Iraq was “the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of the country.” - Bernie

This diqualified Hillary the office in 2007 despite it taking place in 2002! What happened since? The shit show is worse today than...ever(?) but it's 8 years since 2007, so time to wipe the slate clean! Madame Etch-a-Sketch?

What other nonsense am I to address here...?

Help me with the Reagan thing. That's the most fascinating thing you've ever posted at DU. I want to know more about that.

Yeah, for many here and across the nation, this is a gender thang. You go girl!

I was talking to my mom last night about the meme "if women ran the world" something something things would be better. But Hillary's a hawk (so the phrase doesn't imply there will be more peace if women ran the world) and Hillary has too many crooks on Wall Street in her coffers (so the phrase doesn't imply it's time to clean up WS). Across the isle is a very vile human being in Fiorina. You might have said at one point in your life "if women ran the world" things would be better. How so? I see war and corruption in Hillary. I see status quo. I think "people" are blinded by their desire to get a woman into office that they are willing to sell out. Or, I guess "people" are resigned to more war and corruption regardless of gender. You know, if we had to choose between Hillary and a male version of Hillary, I'd vote for the woman, because it is time. But that's not our choice today. Only people who are protecting Hillary say there's not much to chose from between she and Bernie. Those people are afraid of Bernie, because they as far apart in many respects (it's shrinking one by one as Hillary is positioning herself closer to Bernie) as Bernie is from the Rs.

Word

[pinebox]

11. 100% AGREED!

She is untrustworthy piece of work to say the least