Why are Sanders supporters so upset (if Sanders crushed it)?

[hill2016]

If the pundits are wrong and that the majority of voters think Sanders crushed Clinton in the debate, eventually this will translate into support and (well) votes in the primaries and the general election.

So just chill, ignore the noise and play for the long game.

Sprouting conspiracy theories about the media really doesn't help your cause.

[stone space]

1. I find the Privitization of our Democracy disturbing.

Since when are the Democratic Debates not owned by The People?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251685174

This strikes me as a Theft of Democracy, and should be a Felony.

[hill2016]

9. first,

read through the Constitution and let me know what it says about Democratic Debates.

[stone space]

16. What part of "should" do you not understand?

read through the Constitution and let me know what it says about Democratic Debates.

This is a Theft of Democracy, and should be a felony.

[sufrommich]

50. The whole debate can be watched on YouTube.Who is being denied that right?

[demwing]

2. You tell us to chill

and then call us conspiracy theorists!

And you pretend you don't understand why we get upset...

[hill2016]

11. do you have evidence

of a big media conspiracy?

If not, isn't that the definition of a conspiracy theorist?

[demwing]

21. Yes we do, and it been presented here several times - but you miss the point

you ask us to chill, insult us, then pretend you don't understand why we're fried.

It's because on the one hand, we see our democracy is at risk of being auctioned off to the oligarchs, while on the other hand, there's the pretense and the insults from the bullshit posts like yours!

Under the fucking circumstances, we're being damned civil.

Am I being clear enough now?

[hill2016]

22. sure let's discuss the evidence?

care to offer proof of this grand media conspiracy against Sanders?

[demwing]

26. Nope, I don't particularly like you

so we'll have no more "conversations"...but if you want evidence of the media conglomerates conspiring together to create a false reality, start with these threads:

Whoop... There It Is... Gawd I Love The InterWebs !!!
6 Reasons Sanders Actually Won the Debate Despite What Pundits Claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=682652

Chris Matthews used these images to show why Bernie won the debate & how the media is biased
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=684048

Voters Overwhelmingly Say: 'Bernie Winner of Debate!' Corporate Controlled Editors Ignore Them!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=681748

[artislife]

33. Ditto!

This thread and poster both are trashed!

[Generic Other]

44. As I recall even HC once spoke out against the great rightwing conspiracy

back before she changed her mind about whether it could help or hurt her chances to win election.

[pennylane100]

20. I think we safely ignore this OP advice.

It is a panic reaction to stunning performance by Bernie.

I believe that I think we are big enough to admit that Hillary also did a pretty good job. I hate this type of us against them attitude. While I am a very strong Bernie supporter, it will not be the end of the world if Hillary becomes the first woman president. The only reason to panic is when President Trump is inaugurated.

[That Guy 888]

3. Why are all Democratic voters upset about the Benghazi hearings? n/t

[99th_Monkey]

4. Ahhh. maybe because well-paid M$M shills are liars, saying "Hillary Won!".

just maybe.

[hill2016]

5. like I said

it doesn't matter. If voters think Sanders won, he'll get more support and eventually voters.

So why worry about what these M$M shills think?

Questions: are M$M shills only those who think Hillary won or do they include those who think Sanders won?

[99th_Monkey]

8. You are right

that it doesn't matter. I'll give you that. Bernie wins anyway.

But lies, that go completely unanswered, become "conventional wisdom".

Fuck that shit.

[hill2016]

15. ok

so like I said, if Sanders is going to win, just chill out. You'll get there eventually.

How can an opinion (about who won) be a lie?

[Egnever]

27. It does matter

If all the major news organizations are pushing false narratives. This seems to be a glaring example of a forgone conclusion being presented based on absolutely nothing.

When the only thing you can point to is the TV talking heads saying something as evidence of something being true and can point to many other things that seem to contradict that conclusion there is every reason for flags to go up.

It would be very easy to come to the conclusion that the media is trying to manipulate people in such a scenario. Maybe not, but knowing how the media works to manipulate the public on a daily basis if find the idea they are playing this one straight a bit difficult to swallow.

If you think manipulating elections doesn't matter because they are working for your candidate that is a problem as well.

Personally I couldn't care less who won the debate I will take pretty much anyone that was on that stage over the clowns running for the republicans. I do have a big problem with "news" organizations pushing an agenda. It is one of the reasons I got rid of the TV years ago.

[99th_Monkey]

34. I think you may have missed my reason why, "it doesn't matter"

because "Bernie wins anyway". <-- THIS is why.

I also called M$M out for lying about it.

So why are you seeming to try to pick a fight on this, when we totally agree?

[Egnever]

35. I didn't reply to you

Back at ya

[peacebird]

6. Why are the Hiilarious ones so desperate? "She won, she won!!!" Memories of 2007 perhaps?

[hill2016]

7. we're not desperate.

we're smug and over-confident.

opposite of desperate.

[peacebird]

12. Again, just like Miss Inevitable supporters in 2007. And we all KNOW how that turned out.

By the way, her polling trends are going exactly the same this time out.
Just FYI.

[99th_Monkey]

13. "smug and over-confident" ...

You couldn't describe Team Hillary more accurately to date if you tried.

[hill2016]

18. but then

I think we have good reason to be after a great debate night. She blocked Biden and got all the great publicity (which is priceless).

[99th_Monkey]

37. "all the great publicity" mmm .. ok

She was "polished, poised & looked so presidential" ..

so we're not supposed to notice who her super-PACs represent.

[sufrommich]

51. Or maybe months of DU's Sanders supporters crowing that

the debate would be the end of Hillary? You've all been claiming this would end her candidacy,it didn't,and now you expect complete silence from the DUers you all have been taunting for months,that's what makes you all so angry.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Probably the same reason that Hillary supporters who are supposedly convinced she's inevitable

Still feel the need to argue with folks on DU who support other primary candidates.

[peacebird]

14. Yes. The memories of 2007 are painful for them, & this appears to be Part Deux.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Ive sort of assumed from the beginning that she was likely to be the nominee, so

If that is how it turns out, fine, she isnt my first choice right now but I will move on and enthusiastically support her in the general.

There seems to be a subset of her "fans" who seem to be massively emotionally over-identified with her, though, so on the off chance she doesnt get it this time, (again!!!) the shit losing will be astounding to watch.

[Dem2]

36. Seems both side could fit that description

no?

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Maybe. I only know what i see.

And i see a group of people who have some sort of personal attachment to the idea of Hillary™, and now she "deserves" this, etc... Or it's "her turn"--- that doesn't have a whole lot to do with any concrete political issue positions she is advancing.

And no, that doesnt apply to "both sides".

[Dem2]

48. I was told in another post that if I didn't vote for Bernie, a doomsday scenario of sorts

would occur. This sort of rhetoric is extremely distasteful and it surely occurs on both sides.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. I was told by a random guy on the street with a big sign that if I didn't accept Jesus

I would spend eternity in some cartoonish sort of lake of fire situation.



People say all kinds of silly shit.

[Dem2]

54. As I said, both sides are equally capable of "losing their shit"

...if/when their candidate doesn't win.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Thats not the same thing.

Im sure there are some bernie people who will complain or otherwise even go so far as to enter ralph nader territory if sanders doesnt get it- and at that point, screw em, i have no patience for that mentality any more so than i did in 2000 (or for the PUMAs in 2008, for that matter)

But you are missing -or ignoring- the central point im observing, here- namely, the personal, emotional over-identification some Hillary supporters have with her- not her positions, not what she stands for- she represents something, i think, in their own lives, payback or vindication or something, and its a valence that would not be filled by any other candidate-- and they have been operating from the get go on the assumption that she is "entitled" to this, it is hers because of.... Whatever. And they will positively, absolutely, come completely fucking unglued if she doesnt get it.

Thats a different situation than the ideological issues-driven reasons why some sanders supporters- wrongly, to my mind- might not support the nominee if it's not him. It's not about "Bernie Sanders" the dude, it's about what he stands for.

With a certain subset of Team Hillary, it most definitely is about HER and GOD DAMMIT ITS HER TURN SHE IS ENTITLED TO IT.

[Dem2]

58. I am not missing it I don't think

I've see that same behavior on Bernie's side.

[senz]

17. "Conspiracy theory" is an easy gaslighting term.

So we shall continue to call 'em as we see 'em.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Because Bernie supporters know full well the power of propaganda, history is

chock full of hundreds of millions of people (including Americans) being deceived by their news sources in regards to reality.

Approximately 15 million people saw the debate, all the focus groups and Internet polls stated that Bernie was the hands down, winner but the corporate media pundits; who still wield considerable propaganda power while having major conflicts of interest rejected the will of the people and are now trying to create a different version of reality.

For all the millions of Americans; which never saw the debate, they're more vulnerable to being brainwashed by the self serving corporate media pundits.

Thanks for the thread, hill.

[hill2016]

23. you have so little faith

in your fellow voters to decide for themselves how and when they want to engage with the political process.

[Uncle Joe]

25. Perhaps you're too young but I well remember the runup to the war with Iraq when the

corporate media taking dictation from Bush et al brainwashed over 70% of the American People into believing that Saddam Hussein (against all the evidence to the contrary, logic and just plain common sense) was behind 9/11.

That's only one example of having witnessed the corporate media's brainwashing power over the American People

We're not isolated in this, other nations throughout history had their peoples' views of reality warped by their media sources.

[Egnever]

28. Well said

While i don't have a horse in the bernie hillary race. I do find the reaction of the pundits troubling.

Of course I have found them troubling for some time now so I don't know why this instance should be the least bit surprising.

[Uncle Joe]

29. It's not surprising to me, they do have an inherent conflict of interest but I still find it highly

disappointing.

Peace to you, Egnever.

[Egnever]

30. Nope not surprising at all really

[Generic Other]

45. Even HC once found them troubling

She was the one who identified the great rightwing conspiracy after which they hounded her. Her followers have short memories.

[AgingAmerican]

31. It will not be swept under the rug

nt

[TexasTowelie]

32. The next debates in this order: CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS and Univision

or as an acronym: CAN PU

[ibegurpard]

38. He didn't crush it

And neither did she. The media accolades are completely over the top and unwarranted. And the snark dismissals of the Internet polls and focus groups are also out of line. No they absolutely DO NOT measure general public opinion but what they DO measure is enthusiasm and that's why I suspect the results of them are making the supporters if a certain candidate so angry.

[CajunBlazer]

39. All this proves is that Bernie supporters loved their guy's performance....

(that’s a natural reaction) and took their enthusiasm to the web. There is absolutely no doubt that Sander's supporters are the most animated and the most active.

However, as former debater I tried to view the debate objectively and, while I really admired Bernie's enthusiasm and convictions, I came to the conclusion that Clinton won the debate hands down. There are only so many times you can say that the one percenters are riding the country into hell in different words without sounding repetitive. If you think that I came to that conclusion only because I support Hillary, I guess we are even on that score.

You heard what you wanted to hear, and that's okay, but that doesn't translate into debate points. If you don't like what you hear on the post debate coverage, by all means turn the TV off, but don't pretend that because others don't see the world as you do that some kind of conspiracy is afoot. Even if you do, it would probably be best to keep your conspiracy theories to your yourself; it makes your side sound like the Clintons. 

[frylock]

40. Why are Clinton supporters so upset about the email issue (if she did nothing wrong)?

[Buzz cook]

43. Why aren't more Sanders supporters upset about the email and Benghazi witch hunts

And while we're at it why do some Sanders supporters pile on with the MSM and conservatives over the email non-scandal?

It's as if they don't know that a false attack by the MSM on one democrat is an attack on all of them. I'd find it hard to believe if I didn't know history.

[pinstikfartherin]

42. Honestly, I don't care who "won" the debates...

...and I don't care who pundits say won or what the internet polls that night said. The upcoming polls in the next week or two will show us who gets a bump. Ultimately, who cares what those of us who are already biased think? What really matters is those who aren't political junkies and might vote.

This whole stink from my fellow Sanders supporters just doesn't matter to me. IMO, it's more important to focus on winning people over with the issues, not whining.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

46. "Sprouting"?

Geez, in a another finger-wagging thread I learned all about Mr. "I have a Conscious." Seriously, if you all are going to taunt, at least make an effort to get it right...

[mhatrw]

47. Yes, in fact, it does. Anybody who thinks the corporate media

has not conspired to control and limit the boundaries of "legitimate political debate" in this country needs to get educated about reality.

Just a few years ago, corporate media would have pulled the plug on any talking head for so much as questioning whether the rich were getting too rich. That was shouted down as "class warfare."

[brooklynite]

49. ...because they think voters are dumber than they are...

THEY could all figure out who won, but the average voter isn't capable of the same thought process.

[Scootaloo]

52. I'm not upset

I just think that declaration of who "won" ought to be decided by more than style.

I know, it's cray-cray

[Fawke Em]

56. Because we know the media influences people.

That all indicators (online polls aside) showed Bernie "crushing it" only to have the media erode that belief with their Hillary cheerleading is annoying, but we I guess we should expect it. Hell, they ignored him for months.

[LWolf]

57. I'm not.

And I'm not sure why you'd suggest that I am.

Upset.