All Democrats. I beg you. Please stop saying "as we know it"

[BlueStreak]

Ryan's plan doesn't end Social Security and medicare "as we know it". It ends those programs, period, and replaces them with a half-assed temporary measure that itself would go away in a few more years.

We need to stop saying they "End medicare as we know it". That sounds like they are just modernizing the old program.

They aren't modernizing it.

They aren't sprucing it up.

They aren't making it "more sustainable".

They aren't giving it a spring cleaning.

They aren't adjusting it to meet the needs of the 21st Century.

THEY ARE KILLING IT, plain and simple.

Words are important. Don't let them soft peddle it.

[TheMastersNemesis]

1. They Are Killing Everything - Not Just Medicare.

[BlueStreak]

2. We wouldn't say "Destroying the human race 'as we know it'"

We would simply say "destroying the human race" if that were the case. Adding the words 'as we know it" is a pussy-footed way of softening the statement. We don't need to be softening any of our statements when it comes to something as crucial as Social Security or Medicare.

And we should be equally clear:

a) Both programs are solvent for decades right now.

b) Both programs can be made solvent for the next 75 years by making small, sensible adjustments.

There is no reason to ever think about killing these programs. If you want to talk about the minor tweaks that would make them solvent for 75 years, that's fine. For example, it does make sense to gradually increase the enrollment age to match the gradual increases in life expectancy. That is a reasonable discussion to have.

[pipoman]

3. And I would add..

"American workers can compete with workers anywhere in the world"..please..

Oh, and none of that "Joe Six-Pack" shit either..

[BlueStreak]

4. Can you please give your reasoning?

I don't disagree with you, but I have used those expressions and want to understand why you think that is something to avoid.

[HubertHeaver]

5. They are cliche

and are to be avoided like the plague.

[BlueStreak]

6. Can you suggest another way to say those things?

[pipoman]

11. The "American workers..." nonsense

is always used to justify trade agreements with nations with no worker protections in place and no requirement for worker protections for participation in the agreements..IOW, US workers will compete even if they have to live in dirt floor shanties..

As for "Joe Six-Pack", it is a reference as a normal US male..a beer drinking dumbass..it is classism and bigoted..

[BlueStreak]

18. That makes sense. Help me out there.

"Joe sixpack" and easily be replaced by "Good Americans who go to work every day trying to support their families and have a decent standard of living."

But I am not clear of a better way to talk about the American worker. Can you please suggest something? Do you mean to imply that the American worker can't really compete? I don't think that is the point. I think the point has more to do with rigged systems and built-in inequalities in these trade arrangements. And another part of it is that America shouldn't be seen as a sewer that the low wage, low quality-of-life countries can dump their products into. We are an economy that is 70% driven by consumer spending. If we consume only products made in the sweatshop countries,soon we will not have any wealth left to buy ANYTHING. But how do we get that into a short, crisp phrase?

[pipoman]

20. How about simply 'working Americans' or

'voters', or any number of other accurate descriptor. Why is it OK and appropriate to refer to "Good Americans who go to work every day trying to support their families and have a decent standard of living." as a beer drinking slobs? "But I am not clear of a better way to talk about the American worker.", Then you obviously have a very low opinion of American workers.

I don't know how to be more clear. US workers can't keep their standard of living and compete with workers in countries with no minimum wages, or minimums so low that they can't afford electricity in their homes. They can't compete with workers who don't get vacations (let alone paid vacations), retirement programs, take company transportation to work because they can't afford cars, eat low quality food, never go out to eat, and live in dirt floor shacks. How about quit trying to justify unfair trade agreements with tyrannical, oppressive, and elitist governments with no intention of improving worker's conditions?. How about leveling the playing field, and quit pretending this is about fair competition? How about forgetting about getting that "into a short, crisp phrase" and calling it what it is?

[RedStateLiberal]

7. I think the only reason some try to qualify it like that is

because the so-called fact-checkers came down hard on anyone who said the plan would end Medicare. Of course, the reasoning was ridiculous (it's still called Medicare?).

You're right. Dems should plainly say the plan ends Medicare - because eventually it will and we all know that is their ultimate goal. Roll back any and all progressive change.

Hell, if they can keep saying "we DID build that" and Obama is anti-business, we should be able to say they want to KILL MEDICARE.

I hate it when they get away with messaging based on lies and Dems are held to a much higher standard by the media even when our messaging is based on the truth.

[BlueStreak]

19. I take your point about the fact-checkers

I would argue that this is a case where it would very much serve our purposes to have some friction with the fact-checkers.

I would love to see Ryan out there trying to defend his position based on whether his plan merely destroys Medicare and Social Security "as we know them" or whether it destroys them altogether. Our position should be that it destroys them altogether. Let the other guys try to make their case that it only partially destroys the programs.

And again, every Democrat should begin any discussion about these programs with "Both programs are solvent for decades, and some minor, common sense adjustments will make both programs solvent for 75 years."

[susanna]

8. Thank you. n/t

[More questions]

9. Baining of Medicare

The Bain way of management?--Take it over, clean out the assets, then dump it.

[dsteve01]

10. I've been calling ryan's plan

a bunch of (hoppycock) since day one.

Made a blog about it a day ago if you wanna support a fellow dem.
Criticism required.

http://derekstevens01.blogspot.com/2012/08/paul-ryan-is-selfish-shortsighted.html

[Skittles]

12. PREACH IT, BLUESTREAK

yes INDEED

[BrooklynBoy]

13. Agreed

Where is the Democrat party's Frank Luntz?

("Democrat" used intentionally, drives me up the wall.)

[amb123]

14. GOP Dictionary

"Reform" = Destroy
"Restructure" = Destroy
"Modernize" = Destroy
"Gives Consumers a Choice" = Destroy
"Privatize" = Destroy

[SmittynMo]

16. Bingo

[AlinPA]

17. Good post.

[Grammy23]

21. It's No Secret

Why the Republicans use the language that they do. It's designed to soothe and confuse the voters. They use terms that sound good, but mean something else. I say it is written in a code that is understood by a few insiders but is misunderstood by the masses. And that is exactly what they intend for it to do. Their words are meant to keep us from thinking too much and instead be mollified into thinking they have OUR best interest at heart. Imagine that? A Republican who just wants what is best for US.

We have a lot of smart folks on our side of this who are educated and who have long memories. We need the counter punch to the slick tongued arguments that Romney/Ryan will be promoting (as well as their shills who will be making the rounds with their message.) It needs to be quick, concise and accurate. Look back over the years at what Republicans have been attempting to do....basically dismantle and destroy everything that was good for WE THE PEOPLE since the New Deal. History can back us up. We need a message sent out across the land that gets to the heart of the matter and one that voters can understand without someone telling them what it means. The Republicans have a boat load of money to use to push their message and we need a counter message that resonates with the voter and is not easily squashed by a relentless drum beat from the other side.

[HopeHoops]

22. Exactly. The entire goal is to kill Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Welfare, Student loans, etc

It's NOT an "as we know it" situation - it's murder.

[BlueStreak]

23. Oh, and one more thing -- about Romney's taxes

Can we PUH-LEESE stop saying he is only released two years.

No. He has only released one year. He is dragging his feet on the second year. It is already four months overdue, and he probably doesn't intend to actually release it until after the election, if then. And we also know from his history, they he has no problem with putting out a false return before the election and then go back and amend it after the election to keep himself out of jail.

[Chiyo-chichi]

24. As long as Obama is saying it, others will.

I agree with you.

Ideally, the president's Director of Speechwriting, Jon Favreau, should read this thread.