Bernie Will Give a Speech about Democratic Socialism.

[MineralMan]

That's a good idea, but I wonder who will be listening. I will, and I'm sure Sanders supporters will, but who else? Not many, I predict. We, as Americans, generally don't like speeches about things like that. They remind us of our high school social study classes, where most people learned how to sleep with their eyes open.

Democratic Socialism is terrific, and this country would benefit if it were more aligned with that political philosophy. No question about it. But we elect our Presidents and leaders, more or less by majority vote, despite the electoral college and it's vagaries.

Most people who hear Sanders' speech already know what Democratic Socialism is. The rest don't even know that the USA is a democratic republic nor do they understand what that means, either. We'll understand Sanders, but those who don't won't hear his explanation and the media outlets won't explain it, either. What will most people hear?

They'll hear an endless stream of ads from Republican PACs that feature Sanders saying, in answer to the question about whether he is a capitalist, "No. I am a Democratic Socialist." That's what they'll hear, over and over again, if he is the Democratic nominee. What they'll remember is one word: "Socialist."

That word has been demonized over the years, and very thoroughly. It's not considered quite as bad as "Communist" by most people, but is closely related in their minds. The result? Some people who might have voted for the Democrat for President will not do so. Instead, they'll vote for the Republican.

People who would do that are not progressives. They're not liberals. They're people who normally vote for Democrats, though. Normally they do, anyhow. Will they vote for a self-avowed Socialist? That's what they'll remember from those endless ads. Most of them won't. They don't want a "damned Socialist" as President. They don't know what it means, but they don't like it.

Personally, I'd vote for a Democratic Socialist in a flash, but an awful lot of people won't vote for one at all. It's unfortunate that Sanders said that on camera. It can, and will be used against him if he is the nominee. That strategy will work, too, sadly.

That's one of the reasons why I'm supporting Hillary Clinton in the primaries. That video clip will undo Bernie Sanders' chance to become President. It shouldn't, but it will.

[JackInGreen]

1. The point of this post was?

Blowing your own horn?

[MineralMan]

2. The point was explained clearly in the content of the post.

I won't repeat it. Sorry.

[JackInGreen]

5. An impressive solo

But you'd get blammed for a performance like that on the gong show, just sayin.

[MineralMan]

10. Yeah, OK, then.

[stevenleser]

9. I love that you are being castigated for expressing your opinion on a discussion website.

Your post was within the TOS, on topic for the forum, and timely considering it was regarding a speech one of the candidates just made.

I wonder what that other poster expected you to opine about? Professional bowling scores?

Some of these Sanders supporters really need to get a grip.

[MineralMan]

13. I don't care. I made the post to

discuss the Primaries and the situation. What some other DUer thinks of me, personally, is irrelevant, really.

[DCBob]

33. This is a discussion forum.

Good grief.

[BootinUp]

3. I think you are right, this is an attention span issue. Think if it this way

in 2015 if we are having to explain it that means people aren't interested enough to learn it.

[MineralMan]

6. Most people don't want to learn about political theory.

They just don't. Most people just use labels without understanding them. That's a fact of political life in the United States. It shouldn't be, but it is. That reality is always a factor in elections, particularly presidential elections. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Even on DU, there are many people who would be stumped if asked to explain what Democratic Socialism is. They won't be listening to Sanders' speech either. Sad.

[bigtree]

4. It'll probably alert more voters to his Dem Socialist moniker

...than were even aware of it. His explanation will likely be lost in the spin.

Best of luck with all of that, though. I'm a lifelong Democrat. I cried in nursery school when the radio said Johnson wasn't running and Nixon would probably win. My dad bought me a huge Humphrey button as consolation. I'll never identify as a 'Democratic Socialist' and will never promote politics or policy under the banner of Democratic Socialism. To me, the label is made-up nonsense, hokum.

[MineralMan]

7. Even if it doesn't alert voters,

the Republicans will make sure they are "alerted" if he's the nominee. It's wasn't a good thing to give them that tool to use. The speech won't help, either.

[restorefreedom]

12. anyone who snarfs up this bait treat by the gop

is someone who is so far gone they would never vote for the Democratic nominee in 1 million years. A lot of the young people get it, and a lot of the people they are talking to are starting to get it. This is not to be the big ogre that everyone fears it is.

[MineralMan]

14. I wish that were true.

I'm afraid I've been involved in politics and elections long enough to have a pretty good idea of how it all works on a national scale.

[restorefreedom]

16. i guess i am more hopeful

that the bulk of the population realizes that rampant predatory capitalism only works for the 1% and that they are ready to turn the corner and try some modifications.

this is certainly the election we are going to find that out.

[MineralMan]

18. The bulk of the population depends on corporations

for their income. While they may not like the companies they work for, they are always worried that their source of income might go away. That's a powerful influence. Even if they don't work directly for some giant corporation, they still rely on the corporate economy for their livelihood. For example, the guy two door down from me works for a roofing company. It's a small corporation, but the company that manufactures the roofing materials they use is far from small. That roofing company can't make its own roofing materials, so that guy's job is still dependent on a major corporation, as are the jobs of the people who hire his employer to install an new roof.

Most people would find it very difficult to even define what capitalism is, much less rebel against the system it produces. That's the sad truth about our population, in general. Yes, there is a growing awareness of corporate and capitalistic issues, but that awareness is not as widespread as we might think. As long as incomes depend on corporations, there will be general resistance to changing the system.

That's what I expect this election to demonstrate once again.

[restorefreedom]

20. i see what you are saying

and i agree that it would require a pretty major and difficult transformation of ideas and putting those ideas into reality.

it just seems that the balance of the greed of the 1% vs the needs of the 99% has reached a tipping point, enough i hope to elect someone who is willing to shake the tree

as pie in the sky as it may sound, i have to keep hope that that is where we are going. because if I lose that hope, quite frankly, I'd be inclined to start looking at property in Canada. And I really don't want to do that.

[MineralMan]

21. I'm afraid the tipping point has not been reached, yet.

That's just my assessment of it, but it's based on what I'm seeing. On DU, it has been reached, but DU is not representative of the political realities in the US. We still have almost half the country identifying as Republican. On the Democratic side, the majority of the party is more centrist than left. Current polling reflects that pretty clearly.

That we need change is clear, but how we get to that change is far from clear. American voters are slow to adopt anything very new to them. At least the majority of them are that way.

[restorefreedom]

22. people tend not to change rapidly,

for sure. i hope your read of the general pop turns out to be incorrect, but it won't shock me if people are not quite there yet.

but i remain ever hopeful!

[Skidmore]

30. This. And even the smallest business

is registered as a corporation for tax purpose. Otherwise you are working under the table. There are levels of nuance unrecognized.

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. Except, a strong plurality (near majority) of DEMOCRATS ...

already have "snarfed it up."

[restorefreedom]

32. not the ones i have been talking to

and there's still plenty of time for people to learn the facts about progressivism and democratic socialism.

many of us know conservatives who are interested in Bernie's message. he has tremendous crossover appeal. But the establishment GOP wants to paint this is a big Dragon in the corner of the room. But the Dragon has largely been slain.

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. There are months until the primaries and 12 until the general election ...

that is NOT a lot of time to change about a century of negative thought.

[restorefreedom]

37. i guess i am pathologically optimistic

when i see 12 months, i think wow,thats a good long time

always hopeful

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. I probably shouldn't say this; but, the media WILL put it out there, far and wide ...

in the same superficial way it covers everything else. And, when they do ... we will be treated to thread after thread that the media displayed it incorrectly.

[MineralMan]

29. Yes, the media will do that, and they'll avoid any real exposition

about it. Sad. They know that people won't listen to real information, but prefer opinion, instead.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. What's worse ...

They know that people won't listen to real information, but prefer opinion, instead.

We are approaching (have reached) the point where people are only listening to the opinion that supports what they already believe.

I suspect this speech will not have the desired effect.

[bigtree]

39. the next chapter in the Bernie Scorned narrative offered by supporters here

...antagonist politics. It's as boring as it's inane. So glad that the actual Sanders campaign is decidedly less defensive.

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. I've posted this before, and will again ...

At some point ... the campaign HAS TO recognize/accept that it has a measure of responsibility for his supporters ... if for no other reason, for damage control.

The campaign, clearly, monitors this site ... if the campaign has half the integrity that I give Sanders credit for having ... here is my recommendation:

1) Establish a DU account for the purpose of PM'ing the more "enthusiastic" of DU:Bernie, identifying themselves as being a part of the Bernie campaign and asking them to tone it down, as it is hurting the campaign; and,

2) WHEN that fails to have any effect ... Post a message to the AA Group and DU:GD-P, identifying themselves as being a part of the Bernie campaign, and stating specifically that they do not support what they are seeing of some of its more "enthusiastic" supporters ... and for good measure, link to the threads to make the point clear.

Okay ...

I posted that just to see DU:Bernie's response to it, if the campaign did it ... If DU:Bernie would tell Skinner to fuck off, and they KNOW him and KNOW that it is HIS site ... the responses would be highly entertaining!

[whatchamacallit]

24. So... you'd eschew policies that you may agree with

because you don't like the label? ...???

[bigtree]

38. no, I just think O'Malley is a better choice

...for ALL of the reasons in the hundreds of posts I've offered since he announced.

My issue with Sanders' socialist label is that I'm not willing to morph my own political id into his invented political tag.

[whatchamacallit]

40. Well, ok

I'm about supporting candidates who do what's right. I don't really care what others call them, or what they call themselves.

[restorefreedom]

8. one good result

is that hopefully it will be available on YouTube. So when Bernie supporters talk to their friends or neighbors and those people have questions, they can refer them to the YouTube video. As far is it working against him as the nominee, only if it is cut and spliced because The reality won't work against him at all. But for that matter, they can cut and splice his many many speeches in Congress over the years and use that to paint a picture of him. I think he knows what he's doing here. I think it will have positive results.

[Aerows]

11. I'm voting for Bernie in the primary

and I'll be voting for him in the GE because he will be our nominee. All this FUD that he can't win is just that - FUD.

[MineralMan]

15. OK. I wasn't talking about you in this OP, anyhow.

You should vote however you think best. Everyone should. The operant word is "think." Most people don't do that so much.

[Aerows]

17. Every single day

you post some variation of how Hillary is the only person that could possibly win, either with the "Aren't you going to vote for the nominee, since it will be Hillary!" or some similar commentary like today about how there are so many obstacles to Bernie winning.

I reject that notion. Hillary was going to win in 2008, she was the only person that could win, etc., and she didn't.

The fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) ploys are actually getting kind of funny at this point.

[MineralMan]

19. And every single day, others post other things about this primary

race. You needn't click on my posts at all. There are plenty of others to read. If you think I post the same thing again and again, just don't click on my posts.

One thing's certain: I will continue to post on DU when I am moved to do so, and I will post about things I think are important. Why should I not do that?

In 2008, I was an Obama supporter. I believed he had the best chance to win the election and liked his positions well enough to support him. In 2015, I believe that Hillary Clinton has the best chance to win the election, and she's a Democrat who supports many of the positions I think are important.

You should make up your own mind about whom to support, but I will continue to post on DU as I choose to post, just like all other DUers do. I can't see any reason not to, frankly.

[stevenleser]

23. And another post directed at you by a Bernie supporter saying how dare you post your opinion

when the opinion is within the TOS, appropriate for this forum and all of that.

[MineralMan]

25. It's funny, really.

I'm supposed to shut up, I guess. I think I won't, though. I post an average of one OP a day. I don't tell other DUers to stop posting, ever. Still, I get told to shut up almost every time I post.

The irony is palpable.

[stevenleser]

26. There was an OP posted here regarding an article in the Atlantic that made fun of Bernie supporters

DU Bernie fans were all miffed about the article, calling it juvenile and poor writing and all of those things.

There are reasons why articles like that are being written. And you are encountering some of those reasons.

[Uncle Joe]

31. If you support Bernie and have moderate, conservative and/or Independent friends post it on Facebook

to increase the audience.


Thanks for the thread, MineralMan.

[DCBob]

35. Yeah, I suspect you re right.. the people he is trying to reach are not going to be listening in.

Sounds too boring.