From 2 rabid republicans in my office

[democrat_patriot]

Both VP's in their 60's.

"We're in a quandry - vote for Romney and cut Social Security and Medicare that we have paid for all our lives; or vote for Obama and keep them. Even though I can't stand him."

These guys could barely mention the Presidents name a few months ago, he was "that guy in the White House".

[JoePhilly]

1. If they can't figure out the right answer, they need to check to see if their health care plan has

mental health coverage.

[Panasonic]

2. Ask these two morons what exactly is wrong with Obama

besides presidentin' while black?

If they're nothing but overt racists, then they're hopeless.

[democrat_patriot]

9. They were in an office, talking loudly.

So I wasn't really 'in' the conversation...

I'll drop some graphs in their mail regarding Medicare and SS.

[Cosmocat]

13. Eh - it isn't likely that

It is almost totally partisan.

I just laugh today when I talk to an older republican who says, "I actually liked Bill Clinton, I wouldn't mind him today ..."

BULLSHIT, just bullshit.

There might be 1 out of 10 Rs I talk to today who will say they hate Clinton.

In the 90s, these people hated him every bit as they hate BO.

It is simple partisanship.

If BO were an R, they would ADORE him.

Like Alan West, like Colin Powell before he had the audacity to dabble in reason, like Hermain Cain.

20 years from now, the same people who have deranged BO hate will have a surreal and irrational pure hatred for the D president and will rationalize that hatred by saying they actually liked Barrack Obama.

[magical thyme]

3. hard to believe that VPs are worried about SS and Medicare. nt

[sammytko]

14. I know, even some of my family members won't sign up for Medicare

And they aren't exactly rolling in the dough. They are just happy with their very very affordable healthcare and are afraid of what changes they will have to make.

[LiberalFighter]

34. So how much more are they paying compared to not having Medicare?

My dad was frugal and paid attention to the pennies and EOB's. If he thought his insurance was better than Medicare he would had dropped Medicare. So I don't understand it.

At the least their premiums have to be higher because it is their primary and not secondary insurance. In our group and my dad with his insurance the Medicare paid essentially 80% of the costs and the secondary insurance paid 20%.

[sammytko]

37. 11 dollars a month

[Scuba]

35. Wanna bet? I know a whole bunch of people who are/were VP's (myself included) ....

... who absolutely rely on Medicare being there for them.

You've confused a fancy title with a big paycheck.

[sammytko]

38. My sister pays 11 dollars a month for her health insurance

Even I was shocked. I pay 22 a month for Tricare. Phone company retirement plan.

I think she is going to get it anyway, but is doing as much medical stuff as possible now, just in case.

She is voting D, just afraid she won't be able to use the doctors she wants.

[Scuba]

39. I pay just over $800 per month for me and my wife.

Fourteen more months 'til Medicare for me, then it'll drop to about $500 for two more years until the wife's 65.

[sammytko]

40. well, I can see why it would be a great deal for you - big savings

Another person I know who is over 65 hasn't signed up either. He has Federal employees BCBS plus 100% VA medical and dental. Also afraid of having to give up the doctor he sees now using BCBS. Premiums are less than 200 a month.

These people are voting D. They know medicare and medicaid are important, just not for them.

[Freddie]

4. Actually a good sign

They are having this conversation at all

[democrat_patriot]

8. That's what I thought

They are always talking about "we need to win" etc....

[grantcart]

5. Tell them to vote against Romney, problem solved, and their Medicare and SS will not be cut.

[dkf]

6. It's sad that people don't realize changes need to be made to keep those promises.

Cuts are what happens if we don't make changes. If we do want to keep benefits as is we need a discussion on who will pay what to fund them.

[Angry Dragon]

7. Raise the cap first

[dkf]

16. That is one option and we need to discuss raising taxes if we want to keep benefits as is.

[Angry Dragon]

17. Why??

How much money would raising the cap increase the monies??

[dkf]

21. My point is we do not raise enough revenue to pay promised benefits if left as is.

I guess you don't see raising the cap as raising taxes but it does. And then it increases benefits later.

The VPs are under the mistaken impression that they won't get reduced SS if only we don't touch things.

[Angry Dragon]

26. I see it has having no cap on the higher income people

When you talk of raising taxes you then make it sound as if that applies to everyone, that is what the republicans do

who are the VPs??

[dkf]

30. Obama himself defined the middle class at $250,000.

Raising the cap would be a significant amount...

6.2% for employees and 6.2 for employers for the gap from $110,000.

For the self employed middle income $250k earner that is 12.4% from $110,000 to $250,000. I can see that $20,000 or so being one employees salary.

[Angry Dragon]

31. It is $106,800 right now

you could have the employer half drop off after a certain amount

that would be a salary of $9.62/hour with no benefits


add: again what are the VPs??

[dkf]

41. VPs from the original OP.

[Angry Dragon]

42. thank you

[gordianot]

10. Reminds me of my sister in law who spouts hatred of Obama and then says it is not racial.

In her case it is the persistence of generations of conditioning to react to skin color. My experience when people react this way and then say it is not racial it is racist. As someone who has the same conditioning I recognize it in myself and managed to overcome it knowing some kernel is still there lurking. So now I am a damn white liberal Democrat who likes Obama even though I did not approve of some of his Republican compromises in the past. When dealing with my sister in law who cannot stand Obama her justification is that Obama wants to take "guns".

Just ask the simple question "Why do you not like (can't stand) Obama?". Wait for denial they are racist followed by Republican talking point wedge issues guns, abortion, sexual preference, taxes, deficit reduction, and the newly minted birth control. It is encouraging that a degree of pragmatism can make even a small dent in the facade.

[Grammy23]

18. Same situation with me---

Only it's my son and daughter-in-law who claim that they don't like his policies. They deny they are racists and in my son's case, I think that is partially true. We did not raise him with racist views but he did grow up in the south where he was surrounded by that kind of view from when he was in school to his workplace.

There is no reasoning with them. I tried and sadly, feel like I failed to make the slightest headway in getting them to rethink their position. Just rethink it.....not jump willy nilly from the Republican train. They won't do it. I had hoped that the threat to their OWN best interests by voting for Romney/Ryan would begin to sink in but they have given NO clue that they are even considering that. They have three school aged children, with the oldest one in the 9th grade so college is only a few years away. My daughter-in-law is a stay at home mom, who home schools the kids. My son has a decent working class job & benefits with a major corporation but they ignore the facts that if his job goes away or is eliminated (and it could be), they will be up a creek without a paddle. Like many Americans, they literally live pay check to pay check. The Romney/Ryan tag team is not their friend and so far, they don't see that.

All my daughter-in-law really cares about are abortion and "gay rights". Those things trump all.....even their own best interests. I grieve nearly every single day for them since I know in my heart that the Republican ticket spells big trouble for them.

[Cosmocat]

11. How do you counter this thinking?

"We're in a quandry - vote for Romney and cut Social Security and Medicare that we have paid for all our lives; or vote for Obama and keep them. Even though I can't stand him."

[2pooped2pop]

12. ask why they can't stand him

then debunk it one at a time. Most can't tell you why they can't stand him and will come back with something like "he raised taxes" which is the opposite of the truth.or "he's gonna take my guns away" which you inform him that no laws restricting guns has been passed in 20 years and Obama has been more lenient.

They finally get down to blackness if they are honest at all. Most will deny that this is the reason they hate him, but once all their other talking points have been debunked, it's all they have left. I guess we should remind them that he is half white. I don't think it matters though since he has dark skin and hair.

Now if you can do this, you are better than me. I tend to see red and find hate in my heart when even talking to one of the idiots. I feel that every single person or corporation who votes for, or gives money to the republicans, is either a traitor to this country, or a total fucking used fool of a tool.

[democrat_patriot]

27. Rather not have a political discussion with superiors...

Maybe, I'll have to play it by ear.

[2pooped2pop]

29. can't blame you there.lol n/t

[Yavin4]

15. Well, That Is The Essence of Their Choice

Their racism or their health and well-being in their golden years. Choose wisely.

[gkhouston]

19. The destruction of SS and Medicare will affect them a lot longer than four more years. n/t

[Dustlawyer]

20. Obama will cut them too, ask Bill Clinton!

[Avalux]

22. Oh really? Are you referring to the YT video?

If so, you'll have to come up with something better than that.

[Sheepshank]

23. And the RW talking point that this iwll only affect those under 55 doesn't really matter.

Men and women in their 60s and 70s, have kids that will be affected by some voucher program.

If the Baggers can constantly be talking about debts we leave our kids, we can also talk about benefits the RW wants to take away from our kids.

[progressivebydesign]

25. they didn't care when we told them that their kids/grandkids would be paying for Bush's stuff.

I remember being shouted down when Bush was borrowing trillions for tax cuts, and the wars, when we tried to say that our kids and grandkids would be paying that money back with interest. I think many of them just don't understand economics.

[progressivebydesign]

24. If you are on friendly terms with them.. here's a thought to share with them.

A vote for RYAN/*romney means that you are signing off on any cuts to medicare and social security that they deem politically advantageous, and necessary to provide tax cuts for the billionaires, who already control 35% of America's wealth, and it's not about balancing the budget. A vote for them, is basically saying "yes, I'm okay with my children, who are already paying into it, not getting it either.

Truly, a vote for RYAN/*romney is a blank check. You're indicating that your'e fine with the destruction of Medicare and Social Security, with the details to be worked out later. If you vote for someone that has said that they plan to make the cuts, you have no idea what you'll end up with. It's like letting a bear come into your house to have a snack. Once you open that door, do you think it will stop at the dog food bowl?

[Ganja Ninja]

28. Did you remind them that Social Security & Medicare are a Socialist plot?

And how could any independent self reliant freedom loving American allow themselves to live under such soul crushing tyranny.

Did you plead with them about the plight of the rich? Did you explain about the travesty of them living in a country where the elderly can afford to eat the same food they feed their cat?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. Medicare and SS is a sore point with seniors

[flamingdem]

33. Hit those pukes in the pocketbook!

That'll learn 'em

[CabCurious]

36. Review with them the facts in my sig. Economic facts!!

There are MANY people like this who dislike the president and are emotionally committed to that, but may still vote for him.