Does Bernie carry the mantle for Paul Wellstone? Discuss

[grasswire]

It seems to me (without researching comparative policies) that Bernie Sanders is the true "descendant" of Paul Wellstone.

Honest, authentic, fearless, populist.......

What think ye?

[Chitown Kev]

1. In some ways, yes...

Wellstone was more in the tradition of Minnesota liberalism, though, which historically has been MUCH more outspoken about racial injustice at the electoral level (i.e. Hubert Humphrey, Allan Spear, Walter Mondale and all the way through to Keith Ellison).

You can go to C-Span and look at the 97/98 House and Senate debates regarding the Sierra Blanca nuclear waste dump. There was one progressive champion that stood against environment racism in that case at it was not Bernie Sanders. It was one of Paul Wellstone's best speeches on the Senate floor.

[Chitown Kev]

2. This from Wellstone's Wikipedia

In August 1969, Wellstone accepted a tenure-track position at Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota, where he taught political science until his election to the Senate in 1990.[3] During the 1970s and 1980s, he also began community organizing, working with the working poor and other politically disenfranchised communities. He founded the Organization for a Better Rice County, a group consisting mainly of single parents on welfare. The organization advocated for public housing, affordable health care, improved public education, free school lunches, and a publicly funded day care center. In 1978, he published his first book, How the Rural Poor Got Power: Narrative of a Grassroots Organizer, chronicling his work with the organization.[3]

Wellstone was twice arrested during this period for civil disobedience.[6] The Federal Bureau of Investigation began a case file on him after his arrest in May 1970 for protesting against the Vietnam War at the Federal Office Building in Minneapolis. In 1984 Wellstone was arrested again, for trespassing during a foreclosure protest at a bank.[6]

Wellstone extended his activism to the Minnesota labor movement. In the summer of 1985, he walked the picket line with striking P-9ers during a labor dispute at the Hormel Meat Packing plant in Austin, Minnesota. The Minnesota National Guard was called in during the strike to ensure that Hormel could hire permanent replacement workers.[3]

The trustees of Carleton College briefly fired Wellstone in the late 1970s for his activism and lack of academic publications. After his students held a sit-in, the trustees agreed to rehire him and provide him with tenure. Wellstone remains the youngest tenured faculty member in Carleton's history.[7]

IMO, Wellstone was a bit more of an "activist" than Sanders was; no one would ever claim that Sanders was a "community organizer" in the sense that Wellstone and Barack Obama was.

I'm going to K & R this thread for discussion; I think this is a worthy topic.

[grasswire]

8. thank you for the thoughtful post

Today, of course, marks 13 years since Wellstone's death. It is true that no one equals him. But it would seem that Bernie espouses Wellstone's slogan:

STAND UP. KEEP FIGHTING.

[Snotcicles]

3. Paul Wellstone was a great watchdog and was Bill Clintons biggest pain in the ass. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

4. They differed on two very important (at least to me) votes. Wellstone was yes on DOMA and USA

Patriot Act. Bernie Sanders was a very correct no on both DOMA and the Patriot Act. Makes Wellstone more of a Biden than a Sanders.

[Chitown Kev]

6. True...Wellstone also voted for the '94 crime bill

But Wellstone did have a reputation for actually working with minority communities in his state; Minnesota has a little bit more diversity than Vermont (esp. now) but it's not that much more diverse.

[Bluenorthwest]

7. The reputation he had with the LGBT community was that he took their support and screwed them

over in thanks. The DOMA voters will never, ever have my respect. Elected officials are supposed to represent their constituents, not vote their rights away. I don't get what Vermont has to do with this Kev, but I do notice that in place of examples of Wellstone's righteousness to counter DOMA you just say he had a reputation for 'actual work'. Representing one's constituents in the US Congress is in fact actual work. Very important trust they are given. Voting against my rights is actual bad work.

What other work is it that you speak of?

[grasswire]

9. could you provide some background for your claim...

.....that LGBT community felt scorned by Wellstone? I've never heard this.

[Chitown Kev]

11. I, for one, was shocked when I learned of his DOMA vote

Wellstone apologized for it and said that he didn't understand what he was voting for...myself, I think Wellstone voted yes on DOMA because he wanted to run for President. So there's the whole political expedience thing these which one might be a little more willing to accept from a moderate Democrat like Obama but not a liberal "champion" like Wellstone.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Not true, he only said he worried that maybe he'd not done the right thing. He probably would have

apologized but we will never know. He wrote about it in his book. And he understood exactly what he was voting for and did not claim he was confused about it, he said he might have been wrong.

Wellstone 2001: “What troubles me is that I may not have cast the right vote on DOMA. When Sheila and I attended a Minnesota memorial service for Matthew Shepard, I thought to myself, 'Have I taken a position that contributed to a climate of hatred?'"
http://www.wellstone.org/blog/2013/06/doma-and-our-dad

He was asking the right question but still did not see that the obvious answer is yes, you did contribute to a climate of hatred. He was maybe getting there very slowly.

[Chitown Kev]

18. Apologize was the wrong word maybe

I am pretty convinced of the reason that he did it though.

After all, Bill Bradley was a yes vote on DOMA as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. I have memory and logic, we all felt screwed by all of them, my Senators voted No thankfully.

But of course most people were just stuck with the Party and the DOMA voters because what else could we do and there were so many other very important things going on and the alternative was Republicans. DOMA Democrats sucked the energy out of the LGBT community politically. That cost Al Gore, John Kerry, and it's about money and volunteerism and many things that you just don't do for the people you vote for out of a lack of choice knowing you are their bargaining chip to be lost in the first rough hand.
https://books.google.com/books?id=KGQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT36&lpg=PT36&dq=advocate+wellstone+doma&source=bl&ots=MVx8NaNAxI&sig=f-NRocB6c5ocyhdJvJIsN1F7LuE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDgQ6AEwA2oVChMI55mzlffgyAIViyuICh0nyQ76#v=onepage&q=advocate%20wellstone%20doma&f=false

Wellstone voted for DOMA, Sanders did not. Same for Patriot Act. Those are really major votes.

[Chitown Kev]

14. Can I ask you what state you live in?

Both of my Senators (Braun and Simon) were no votes on DOMA as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. At that time I was in my native California, Los Angeles. Diane and Barbara both big No votes.

Braun and Simon also did well. So many disappointed me with all of that back then Kev, but 1996 was also the first year AIDS deaths stared to decrease instead of increase and much of that was because of the same Democrats who botched up DOMA and DADT.
We aren't where we will be but thank God we aren't where we were. It was bad and it is better, and not just LGBT wise. This is still the time we have been waiting for, we are still the change we have been waiting for, great things are in reach and this primary is part of that process, we have three really useful candidates and I like them all.

[Chitown Kev]

19. I've said this...If ONLY LGBT issue were being considered by myself

Martin O'Malley gets my vote and it's not even much of a contest in that respect.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. O'Malley I like as well.

I think all three have excellent attributes and skills actually. All the cavorting about as if they were distant extremes one from the other I do not ascribe to personally. Three fine candidates, a primary to be proud of.
The same long term view that makes me like Bernie causes me to understand Hillary better than most and I certainly respect her more than some on DU do. O'Malley I'd like to have 20 minutes with to share a few notes on verbiage and framing but he's got a lot going on and has a big future.

[Chitown Kev]

10. Because Sanders actually DOES make it a point

of continually saying and emphasizing that he's from a nearly all-white state.

Paul Wellstone was from a very white state as well, but he never used that as an excuse not to champion racial equality or as an excuse not to work with the minority communities within that state.

At the present time, Vermont is actually having some difficulty working with the influx of African immigrants in Vermont (I noticed the influx of African immigrants in Maine when I worked for No On One in 2009). To my knowledge, Sanders really hasn't worked all that much with the racial minority communities within his own state...I'm too lazy to get links at the moment but if you want to see them...I can link to this DK diary that I did on the establishment of a NAACP branch in Vermont

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/02/1408169/-Vermont-gets-its-first-NAACP-chapter

I didn't think the point of this thread was to hash out "right and wrong" but to hash out "similarities and differences" between Sanders an Wellstone. Of the two, Wellstone was much more of an activist, IMO...Wellstone had no reason to care about the Sierra Blanca nuclear facility but he did...but that's how many Minnesota liberals roll...and always have...

[Bluenorthwest]

13. So still nothing on what Wellstone's 'actual work' was? Other than voting for DOMA?

How can I compare and contrast when I'm the only one citing any actual actions by either man? I think all constituencies deserve representation, including the people of Vermont. Bernie represented his constituents while Paul told his 'I oppose your right to marry'. But you claim he did other things which balance that, which you can not name. The demongraphics of his State do not prove a thing about him, many of the countries most virulent Republicans come from very diverse and Non Vermont like States and districts, somehow that diversity does not rub off on the Republicans they elect.

If you can't cite anything Wellstone did that impresses you then balancing fact is absent from this discussion. We have DOMA. That's the only fact on hand.

[Chitown Kev]

16. Uh, I mentioned Sierra Blanca twice

That is "a fact on hand" that you purposefully choose to ignore.

I've looked at those debates (the Sierra Blanca debates are still on C-Span).

For example:

I was stunned watching that Sierra Blanca debate when Sanders looked around and said something to the effect that all of the Maine and all of the Vermont and most (or 2/3) of the Texas delegation was for the Sierra Blanca facility and that, therefore, it was a good thing. Sanders NEVER noted the racial component in that debate; he never noted that even a Republican like Henry Bonilla was against...he never noted that the entire Hispanic delegation (and Lloyd Doggett) was against that facility.

On THAT occasion and on that issue, he was not a champion of the little man and Paul Wellstone was...and Wellstone didn't have to be.

I've noted some of Wellstone's weaknesses here...you can't seem to do the same for Sanders...but I have said that Sanders and Wellstone are cut from similar cloths but there are some differences...I have outlined one issue and background info and you brought up DOMA (which I never defended Wellstone's vote on DOMA).

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Sanders also voted for the crime bill, he's not perfect either.

But he sure never voted against anyone's equal rights, which to me is huge. A deal breaker. Patriot Act also, not to my liking at all.
I thought I was going to hear about actual community work. I would love to know if Wellstone actually did good things, I don't like thinking so poorly of a man DU likes so much.

[Chitown Kev]

24. I posted some of his Wikipedia

which details some of his community.

Here's an In These Times post:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/14009/paul_wellstones_legacy

Remember, I'm from the Midwest, so Wellstone was a bit of a liberal icon especially in these parts.

Also remember: Sanders was arrested for civil disobedience as a student. Wellstone, OTOH, was arrested for CD as a professor and almost lost his job because of it.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Wellstone voted for DOMA. He can be an icon and get arrested I'm talking about legislative

choices. He voted for bad law, law that was aimed directly at the LGBT community still reeling from the AIDS crisis.
I only object to the whole Wellstone routine when he gets held up as some definition of a good progressive. That's a bit too much. With an asterisk, he's fine. As the standard he falls short.

[Chitown Kev]

32. Both have good and bad in their legislative records

and even in elections..Sanders and Wellstone do have one thing in common, though...from the ITT piece

Wellstone went on to co-chair Jesse Jackson’s 1988 presidential campaign in Minnesota, and then worked for the Michael Dukakis campaign after Dukakis won the Democratic nomination.

[Agschmid]

5. No not really.

[fadedrose]

20. Maybe his safety is something we have to worry about

Better check the planes, trains and cars he rides in...
He is irreplaceable - even in the Senate if he lost the nomination...

[MohRokTah]

21. No.

Wellstone was a Democratic.

Sanders is not.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Wellstone was a DOMA Yes voter. Bernie was not.

nt

[Chitown Kev]

25. Sanders didn't do THIS

In May of 1997, Wellstone began laying the groundwork for a 2000 presidential campaign, embarking on a cross-country “children’s tour” to Mississippi, Appalachia and poor neighborhoods in Chicago, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and Baltimore, retracing the route taken by Senator Robert Kennedy in a similar tour in 1966.

Even in beginning his presidential campaign, Sanders went where the white progressives were (Madison, Seattle, etc.), for the most part.

[Kalidurga]

26. He is much more liberal than Wellstone was

Wellstone was evolving though. Bernie hasn't had to fortunately. But, I am okay with people evolving not everyone is blessed with the innate ability to see past their environment, upbringing, culture to see what is fair and not fair. So, if people don't get that all forms of discrimination is wrong right away, but they do later in life, I won't knock that.

[Chitown Kev]

30. On economics, I would agree that Sanders was more liberal

Not on racial justice, though.

[Kalidurga]

31. Bernie has always been for full lgbt rights Wellstone not so much.

I am not knocking Wellstone for that. But, when I was going to vote for him, I was still well aware of his stand on gay rights.

[Chitown Kev]

33. Yeah...I was aware of Bradley's vote, too.

I would have preferred Wellstone to Bradley (and either one to Gore).

[Kalidurga]

34. See it's okay if a candidate is not perfect...

Because no one is. That is why I was okay with Wellstone, I do believe if he hadn't died he would have become an LGBT champion at some point. I remember the times and it wasn't long ago that it still wasn't cool to support the LGBT community. Joe Biden made it suddenly cool and Obama had his back.

[valerief]

29. They both voted against the Iraq War. That makes them both smart and brave.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalleadership/a/IraqNayVote.htm

RIP Wellstone.