Seriously, Secretary Clinton?

[sabrina 1]

You believe you are a victim of men 'shouting you down'? Seriously? Is that why you voted for the Iraq War, supported the awful Welfare Reform Act, Doma, the TPP among other awful policies that so adversely affected the lives of millions of people? Men shouted you down?

This is the image you want to portray, not just of yourself, but women in general?

I strenuously object to that portrayal of women. It sets women back several generations to the point where that WAS the way women were portrayed.

It kept them from occupying positions of power, from being taken seriously on issues that 'only men were capable of dealing with'.

Women were viewed as weak,they needed protection, belonged in their homes, too emotional to be trusted with jobs that required strength and leadership abilities.

Since then women have fought hard to erase those images and to some extent, though there is more work to be done, have succeeded. They still have not achieved equality in the workplace, there are not enough women in our government, but we are, or thought we were, making progress.

I hope your portrayal of yourself is not taken as a portrayal of women in general. Women have fought too hard for too long AGAINST the stereotype!

It was, to say the least, a very unfortunate remark.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But I want to talk about a woman who absolutely rejects the notion that she might view herself as a victim.

She is also running for the office of President of her country, an election the world is currently watching.



Her name is Aung San Suu Kyi!

You can read her amazing biography HERE

Last night I watched an interview with her and was struck by the contrast between her and our female candidate for President.

Knowing her life story, she certainly could legitimately claim to have been a victim.

However, when she was asked how she felt about being so victimized, she adamantly refused to accept that characterization:

'But, I was NOT a victim' - she stated.

The interviewer seemed surprised and pressed her on the question, again, asking her WHY she does not consider herself a victim!

'How can I be a victim when everything was MY CHOICE?' She insisted.

How refreshing. A woman who REFUSES to be characterized as a victim DESPITE, or maybe BECAUSE of the incredible tragedy her life has been.

No complaining about victimhood from her!

She is strong, despite or again, maybe because of all the adversities she has faced.

Separated from her two sons, unable to watch them grow up.

Unable to visit her husband in England as he lay dying.

Her decades-long loss of freedom, a conniving, brutal Military Junta really, seriously out to 'get her' and they did.

Yet she insists pretty strongly that she is not a victim, she refuses to consider that at all.

I know she and Hillary have met. I wonder what she thinks of a woman like Hillary claiming to be victim?

Their policies on War eg could not be further apart.

She is for peaceful resolution of conflicts despite, or maybe BECAUSE of all the brutality she witnessed in her own country.

After watching this beautiful, strong woman last night, I felt a little sad for this country where powerful women who have been so privileged all their lives, rather than appreciate how fortunate they are, or show the strength women possess, choose instead to claim victimhood.

Bernie V Burma/Myanmar's Military Junta?

How embarrassing for us as a nation and especially for women!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. K&R. n/t

[kelliekat44]

120. When did she say she was a victim of shouting? nt

[JonLeibowitz]

127. Here you go

Enjoy!

[artislife]

2. There is a belief that

everything we experience we are responsible for.

It is actually quite liberating and empowering.

[sabrina 1]

4. It's interesting that you say that. It reminded me of Hillary's statements on legislation she

supported, such as the Welfare Reform Bill, legislation that removed the Social Safety Net from mostly poor and minority single mothers and children. She talking about people being 'responsible' and about 'encouraging people to NOT be dependent'. Comments I found to be extremely condescending towards people who were not as privileged as she was.

Which is why I watch what they DO, not what they SAY.

Btw, I agree with that statement. Hillary eg, doesn't have to be a politician. But since that was her choice, she needs to accept everything that goes with that choice, which includes being constantly challenged. She is lucky with her Primary Opponents who are not hiring smear mongers to go after her as her campaign is doing.

So really, all she has to do is to discuss ISSUES and simply explain her positions on them, as Bernie does.

[artislife]

7. Furthermore

It is how she handles things that causes most of her problems. There is something that strikes many people as sneaky. They feel it and then the blood hounds are let loose.

It may be she has nothing to hide, but she reacts and preemptively acts like she does.

She is responsible for a lot of what befalls her.

My gut does not trust her. I think if she had run instead of Gore and would have won that election, I am not sure her reaction to 9/11 would have differed too much from Bush.

That is to say, strike out and create a war, to appear tough. For her advisers to think of something like the Patriot Act to help her gather intel inside this country and her pushing it to the congress to help her keep this country "safe" is not too farfetched for me to believe.

I cannot see that marriage equality would have come any sooner or that climate change would have been addressed in a meaningful manner.

Rarely do I use the word minions and really mean "minions" but I do use it that way for her. And that is what a lot of people who feel uneasy about her probably feel as well.

No, she has invited her reality.

[sabrina 1]

20. Yes, to everything you said. She seems forced when she talks. Maybe it's just a mannerism, but

feel that she is either bored that she has to do this, talk to people who are asking questions, when really, she has a sense of entitlement about being president Someone has to have made her feel that way. And it's a shock to her that anyone is actually mounting a real challenge to her.

Trust is problem for her according to the polls and favorability.

I don't question anymore what would have happened has she been elected after 9/11. She supported every Bush/Cheney policy so why would we think she would have done anything differently?

In many ways I WISH that had happened, we wouldn't have wasted eight years thinking that all we had to do was get rid of Bush. People would have been awake much sooner.

[redruddyred]

29. this is not a good belief

for victims of child abuse. to give an example.

I don't like the narrative that feminists who complain about the patriarchy are claiming victim status. to be a 2nd class citizen is to be victimized. I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out these problems. in fact I think it's a sign of maturity: we have to analyze our mistakes and figure out what went wrong. and sometimes we're legitimately not at fault. but it also doesn't mean that you dwell on them and never take action or move forward in any way because cannot overcome obstacle x.

ironically, the people in my life who spend the most time berating me for "being such a victim" and "not taking responsibility for myself" are my parents, the child abusers. that should tell you a lot.


It kept them from occupying positions of power, from being taken seriously on issues that 'only men were capable of dealing with'.
Women were viewed as weak,they needed protection, belonged in their homes, too emotional to be trusted with jobs that required strength and leadership abilities.
actually I have had people explictly question my judgment on the basis of my sex and nothing else many times over the past few years. attitudes haven't really changed, men have just gotten better at hiding them. but then again, they don't really hide them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

37. I think it's a viewpoint meant to be used to teach people to take control of their lives

and not simply 'accept' that life happens, and they're not merely meant to be passive observers.

But yes, much of what we encounter is beyond our control, no matter how hard we fight to take that control. As you note, that doesn't mean to stop fighting for that control or that power. The fight might not be won in our lifetimes, but without that fight, it never will be won.

[sabrina 1]

70. That hasn't been my experience, being a woman has never stopped me from doing anything I

put my mind to. I've never thought of myself as a victim, nor has any woman I know. That's not to say there aren't a few people who believe that women are not as competent as men, but there are people who harbor similar opinions about all kinds of people, 'too young' 'too old' etc.

Strong people, and if you are asking to lead this country that puts you in a whole different category to most women, you better be able to handle these obstacles.

Men, eg, like Bernie, is being falsely attacked here. I doubt he will claim to be a victim, he knows well how ruthless the political world is and is capable of handling it withoug characterizing his opponents personally, but simply by telling the truth.

The world is full of obstacles for all kinds of people. Some can surmount them, but we are all different.

But if you want to be the President of this Country you don't need to be going around using your gender, FALSELY in this case, to try to score political points. It makes you look weak, makes it seem you cannot handle discussing the issues.

[bvar22]

80. Everything you claim about yourself (not being a victim, etc.)

had been evidenced on the pages of DU for many years.
Thank You for your leadership.

[rhett o rick]

105. Yeah, yeah but she is always shouting.

Bravo to sabrina and I wish I could shout so well.

[sabrina 1]

130. Thank you bvar22, coming from you, I really appreciate that.

[redruddyred]

170. "victimhood" as a concept is only as useful as how well it provides answers

being a woman has def closed a lot of doors for me, but I try not to dwell on it unduly.

I'll agree that hillary relies too heavily on the "first female president" theme.

[dsc]

39. tell that to Matthew Sheppard

no wait you can't. Guess that is his fault.

[betsuni]

49. Exactly. Like the "everything happens for a reason" nonsense.

[polly7]

3. Amazing woman. Great thread, Sabrina. nt.

[sabrina 1]

74. Thanks Polly, good to 'see' you!

[NBachers]

5. *

[sabrina 1]

8. Did you read the OP? I did state that they had met. Every Western Leader has met with Aung

San Suu Kyi. So what is your point again? I also asked what this amazing woman would think of a woman like Hillary claiming to be a victim.

Exxon is in that country, boycotted globally after the last murderous attack by the Junta on the protesting monks.

Appeals were made to this government to stop Exxon's financial support of that brutal regime. The US ignored them.

She will need a whole lot of support from Western nations.

Her opponent makes Republicans look like Liberals.

So of course, she is a very smart woman, she will take every opportunity and has, to meet with every Western leader she can.

Been following this story for years.

Which is why I knew she had Hillary.

[NBachers]

12. The warm, close, and generous honesty between these two women is genuine.

But, continue on your tear. You've got good head of steam built up.

[druidity33]

35. Really? I saw fake smiles in those pics. nt.

[Agschmid]

53. Oh my...

This is the new DU?

Good lord.

[Sheepshank]

62. Ridiculous assertion in this fake post. n/t

[senz]

96. So did I. They're political photos.

[Dawgs]

51. What? n/t

[azurnoir]

25. no one will ever blame Hillary for missing a photo op

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. Gotta tack onto that resume and 'list of achievements' at every opportunity. nt

[azurnoir]

40. Lol yep

[Le Taz Hot]

58. I'm particularly fond of the one with Kissinger.

[sabrina 1]

79. In the inner circles of DC war criminals like Kissenger and Rove and Cheney are sought after

for 'advice' among other things. It shows how far we have sunk when there is not a single word from anyone on any side about the criminal actions of these people.

We the people may still have principles, which they mock btw, but where it counts, War Criminals and Wall St Fraudsters are in demand at cocktail parties.

She doesn't appear to know or care why anyone might find her association with Kissinger to be extremely problematic which demonstrates how unconcerned they are that the people have any power left.

What gives them that assurance is a mystery, other than historically it isn't uncommon when those in power achieve so much of it, they feel no need to explain ANYTHING they do.

Since we still have the trappings of a democracy the only time they need to adjust their positions, is during the campaign process. Once elected as we have seen, they can get back business. Theirs, not ours.

[senz]

95. True! And she looked a lot more enthusiastic with Kissinger, too.

[NanceGreggs]

6. Oh, yeah, I hear ya!

Watching Hillary at the Benghazi hearing, all I could see was a weak woman, wishing that Bernie was there to "save her".

How dare she speak up when she feels she has been shouted down, as so many women have been? Doesn't she know her place?

Sorry, sabrina - posting this nonsense would have been ridiculous at any time. But after HRC's performance last Thursday, trying to say that she is attempting to portray herself as a petrified victim is beyond laughable.

Way beyond.

[sabrina 1]

9. It doesnt take much strength to deal with those nitwits. I know teenagers who could wipe the floor

with them. Getting INTO the situation was the problem many people noted. What were we doing in Libya?

I would like to hear from the cheerleaders of that invasion, but they all seem to have gone remarkably silent.

Sorry, I'n not impressed. Nor is anyone I know, in fact most people didn't even bother to watch it.

The American people are sick to death of these neocon invasions.

I'm sorry to burst the bubble and had decided not to. But that is the truth.

Wrong questions, a great show, on all sides, but of little significance regarding the real isssue. Which neither the Repubs nor Hillary will ever address since they are all on board for these horrible invasions.

And yes, I do wish Bernie was there, or someone who would have raised questions about the real issue. But that will never happen until we remove all the warmongers from all sides from our government.

[NanceGreggs]

11. "The American people are sick to death of these neocon invasions."

Really? Name them.

You don't speak for "the American people". You also don't speak for women.

You speak for yourself alone - and saying that Hillary is trying "to portray herself as a victim" after her performance at the Benghazi hearing is - as I said - beyond laughable.

Whether you think it was a "great show". or whether the "issues" were addressed to your satisfaction is of no consequence whatsoever.

People KNOW how she stood up under eleven hours of mindless questioning - and they KNOW they weren't looking at a woman who was playing "the victim".

But you keep peddlin' that bullshit all you want - makes no difference to anyone.

[sabrina 1]

14. Since when do YOU speak for the American people? Lol, you seem a bit upset. I know it's

hard to learn that a complete unknown Senator has captured so much support that was assumed to go to the presumed nominee. But that's how democracy works. I kind of like it. I thought for a while there when Hillary's poll numbers were being posted every day showing her at over 80%, that we would be denied that process.

I have to say even I am surprised at how successful Benrie has been.

Reminds me of 2008. Same smear tactics as were used by the Clinton campaign, then against Obama, but in the end, to no avail. That's another thing the American say they are sick to death of, negative campaigns as we want to hear about ISSUES.

[NanceGreggs]

19. I'm not the one ...

... who is constantly talking about what "the American people" think, like, are sick of, etc.

You do so all the time. Read your own posts.

And changing the subject doesn't help you. You honestly want people to believe - after HRC's steel-spined testimony last week for eleven hours - that she is trying to portray herself as a hapless victim?

It's your own OP - so why don't you stick to the topic that you yourself opined on, instead of going off on a tangent about "a completely unknown senator" (which he wasn't), smear tactics, and your reminiscences of 2008?

You said HRC is attempting to portray herself as a victim - a statement which flies in the face of events as recent as last Thursday. And it is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read here - and that's saying something.

Being as you deign to speak on behalf of "the American people", can you give us a list of all the American people who think Hillary is portraying herself as a victim?

[Scuba]

43. No, you're the one who goes to another site and calls DU members "dense as a brick ...

... and twice as thick" so the idea of you accusing others of "smear tactics" is laughable.

[sabrina 1]

73. Ugh, I got one look at that awful site and had to wonder why anyone would

spend their time on a site like that slamming people they don't know on the internet. First and last visit. I've tried to engage Hillary's supporters in discussions about actual ISSUES.

But as you can here, all you get in return are personal attacks.

[NanceGreggs]

82. Try actually reading ...

... what I said.

I didn't accuse the poster of using smear tactics. I pointed out that she invariably speaks about what "the American people" want, need, are sick of, etc. - as though she knows what everyone thinks, and is speaking on behalf of the entire populace.

[Scuba]

84. I have great respect for sabrina, both her character and her wordsmithing. You're also good ...

... at wordsmithing.

[NanceGreggs]

87. I don't consider citing facts ...

... as "wordsmithing" - and the fact remains that sabrina constantly posts about what "the American people" want, need, think, feel - as though she knows, and can speak on their behalf.

[senz]

97. Maybe she saw the photos of packed stadiums cheering Bernie

and just assumed they were Americans. Ya think?

Hillary might have the money, the oligarchy, and the media (that's a lot, I'll grant you that) but Bernie has many, many Americans -- despite his lack of advantage.

That's because he cares about the American people.

I don't think Hillary does. At all.

[NanceGreggs]

102. Sabrina constantly talks about ...

... "the American people" as though she (a) knows what every American thinks, and (b) has been designated the official spokesperson for the citizenry.

Bernie has attracted a lot of people to his rallies. But if you add them all up, the number still doesn't come close to representing all of the "American people" who sabrina deigns to speak on behalf of. They are a small fraction of the voting populace.

HRC has the majority of Dems supporting her - a number that Bernie supporters refuse to acknowledge as being representative of the Party's voters. I guess according to sabrina, those people are not part of "the American people" simply because they support someone other than BS.

[senz]

103. Bernie actually cares about the American people.

That might have something to do with it.

Hillary has numerous political connections, name recognition, familiarity and media support. That can translate to voters, but it's not deeply felt, doesn't come from the heart (I know you don't like that word.) Votes for her are not necessarily informed votes. Votes for Bernie are informed because he makes sure his audiences are informed.

I admire sabrina; she's one of my favorite DUers. She's intelligent, does her homework, has a wonderful spirit, and she's nice.

[sabrina 1]

146. That's exactly the point. Caring about the American people. I can't believe the objections here to

me actually caring about people who over and over again have expressed their concerns in polls, but those concerns fall on deaf ears.

It's simply stunning to see the reaction to anyone actually caring about them here on DU. Bernie of course truly does care about them, all of them.

That's because he never lost touch with them and really is, like most of us, one of them himself.

Hillary is from a different, very elite, very privileged class.

[sabrina 1]

131. I also saw polls senz. On the issues of the most importance to the American people. I am certain

a majority of DUers know me, and they know I speak for no one but myself, but if I say 'the American people want this or that, it is because they have been ASKED and have responded in many polls.

Thank you for being such a great person. To respond to a question you asked in a comment below, personal attacks don't bother me. They do not ever reflect on the target, I learned this over a long time posting on Internet forums. They reflect very badly on those who engage in them

I stay focused on what is important and no amount of personal attacks has ever deterred me from doing that. In the end, I have found, people respect that and many have told me even though we may not agree, that they abhor the behavior of some of their allies.

Love your posts, all of them!

[sabrina 1]

99. Surely you have heard of POLLS??? The Amercan people speak for themselves in POLLS

Lol, I laugh when I read your accusations frankly. Most everyone knows where the American people stand on the ISSUES, the Money in Politics, the negative campaigning etc because of the POLLS.

I'm shocked to learn that suddenly the POLLS don't matter, because all we hear about here is much they DO matter.

No one has to speak for the American people when they can and have done so themselves.

Maybe it would be a good idea to take your own advice and read what people are saying, seriously.

[NanceGreggs]

107. Again, you do not speak on behalf of "the American people".

Your own words are always about what "the American people" are sick of, what "the American people" want, what "the American people" don't want.

You DO understand that "the American people" consists of Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Greens, Independents, rich, poor, blue-collar, professionals, liberals, conservatives, centrists, union and non-union workers, HS drop-outs and Ph.Ds, etc? They are also from varying ethnic groups, backgrounds, religious beliefs; some live in urban centers, some in small towns, some in farming communities and some in inner-cities.

And yet you think that "the American people" are all of the same mind, have the same goals, the same ambitions, the same perspective, the same opinions on all issues?

I should read what people are saying? Well, some of them are saying they are doing well, while some are saying they are hurting. Some are saying they want more gov't regulations, while some are saying they want less. Some are happy with the current education system; others are infuriated by it. Some want less immigrants settling here, others want more.

The "American people" covers a lot of territory - and not all of them are saying the same thing.

That's why, when you lecture everyone about what "the American people" like, don't like, are sick of, want to see changed - I can't take you seriously. You are deigning to speak on behalf of 300 million people, as though you have some kind of insight into what each and every one of them thinks - all under the delusion that they ALL think the same thing, and therefore someone on a political message board is in a position to speak for ALL of them.

[rhett o rick]

109. She speaks with the 99%, who do you speak with? HRC clearly speaks for Goldman-Sachs and

the Wall Street gangsters.

[NanceGreggs]

114. So sabrina speaks ...

... for the 99%?

That's a LOT of people, and I am one of them. And yet, she doesn't speak for me - at all.

I guess you also don't understand that the 99% are not a monolithic group who all think alike, have the same political leanings, want the same things, need the same things, are opposed to the same things, et cetera.

Somehow, I am not surprised that you don't understand that at all.

[rhett o rick]

116. You may be a part of the 99% but apparently you favor the 1%. I understand, they are tough and

wealthy and maybe you think they should rule us in the 99%. I don't agree. It's time to kick the corrupt billionaire run puppets out of the government. You see I do understand quite well. It's authoritarianism, the worship of tough authoritarian leadership.

You know that Goldman-Sachs isn't going to help the poor, the 50 million Americans living in poverty, but you support them anywayz.

16 million American children live in poverty and Goldman-Sachs doesn't give a crap. You are on the wrong side of this class war.

[NanceGreggs]

121. You know what?

I honestly feel sorry for you. I really do.

You think you "know" things about the world, about other people - but you're really just parroting the buzz-words you've heard other people use.

It's incredibly sad.

[rhett o rick]

122. You choose which side of this class war to be on and it's not the side of the 99%.

Do the wealthy make you feel more secure? Do you hope to someday be one? I see hardship every day and it's been getting worse. But Goldman-Sachs cares only about their profits and not about the 16 million children living in poverty. 8 more years of this status quo that you so love, will bring higher numbers in poverty. It's immoral.

[zappaman]

115. I'm with the 99% and she doesn't speak for me.

Try again, Rick.

[rhett o rick]

117. How sad that you are of the 99% and yet you choose to support the 1% instead of the 50 million

Americans living in poverty. Goldman-Sachs doesn't give a crap about them but I would hope you do.

[zappaman]

119. I'm sad for you too, Rick.

You seem to always assume things.
Can you give me examples of how I support the 1%?

Take your time, Rick.

[rhett o rick]

123. I notice that you always ask questions but never tell us what your stand is. Are you afraid to

tell us that you support HRC because you think the billionaires will take good care of us?

The 1% support fracking, which side are you on? How about the TPP? Which issues do you differ from the 1%?

[zappaman]

128. Still waiting. n/t

[rhett o rick]

134. I am still waiting for you to actually address issues like fracking. You know where the peoples of

the world are protesting in the streets and HRC supports Chevron. There are two sides in this class war and HRC/Chevron are not on our side (assuming you are on "our" side).

Frack for profits and to hell with drinking water for the masses. Nestles will sell us water.

[zappaman]

136. Still waiting for you to show me why I'm "with the one percent".

I know you try and hijack EVERY thread you post in to be about fracking, but I'm not playing your authoritarian game.
So again, show me by any of my posts, how I "support the one percent."
If you prefer, you can just apologize...or likely not.

Any day now, right Rick?

[kenfrequed]

140. Who doesn't speak for you?

You seem to have jumped into this thread somewhere in the middle and made demands that the rest of us aren't privy to. Is this a discussion that the two of you (Rick and Zappa) should be having over email or something?

[zappaman]

142. Sorry boss.

Yessir, I will get right on that.

[kenfrequed]

147. Well don't let it happen again.

Insert random Mallory Archer quote.

[sabrina 1]

143. You object to people caring about the American People? That IS what politics is supposed to be all

about no?

[NanceGreggs]

144. Sabrina ...

... with all due respect, your posts make less and less sense.

How you got "objecting to people caring about the American People" out of anything I have ever said here on DU is beyond me.

I'm sure that somewhere inside your own head, that makes sense. But in the world of reality, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[sabrina 1]

145. You've been objecting throughout this thread to me referencing the concerns of the American people

so I have to assume this isn't something that is important to you.

[NanceGreggs]

148. What I have been objecting to ...

... is your pattern of speaking on behalf of "the American People", as though you represent the thoughts and opinions of the entire populace.

You don't.

Is that clear enough for you?

[treestar]

164. The same world where the polls deny us Democracy

because they show that voters are supporting Hillary in greater numbers than Bernie.

[truedelphi]

129. When President Obama begged and pleaded with the American people to take on

The issue of getting involved in a war against Libya and Syria several summers back, all of 17 to 18% of Americans supported him in the polls.

Seventeen to eighteen percent.

Americans are sick and tired of these dirty stinking wars. Wars that we never win and that don't seem to help the people on whose account we supposedly entered the war. The wars do help the military industrial complex, and they do help with making this nation into a surveillance state.

And people like Bill Clinton and Obama end up getting $ 400,000 per speech in front of corporate podium once they leave office. As their quid pro quo for promoting the Big Financial people and the military while leaving the middle class in the dust.

[sabrina 1]

72. I dont need help, haven't you noticed, I'm not the kind of woman who cries 'poor me, I'm a woman'

using it as an excuse if I can't defend my opinions. So thanks for YOUR 'opinion'.

And aren't you one of those who just loves the traditional scientific polls? Which is where I get the information on what the American people are thinking about any particular issue???

Now you DON'T like them?

Btw, have you ever addressed a DUer here who has a different opinion than yours, without personally attacking them?

You should count the number of pronouns in your comments, that often helps to see how personal someone gets rather than addressing the issues.

I've never seen you talk about issues since this campaign began.

Let's try again. Women's issues, poverty, eg, is one of the main issues for many women, single mothers with children, minorities especially.

Hillary pushed to get passed one of the most damaging pieces of legislation wrt to poor, single mothers and their children. She expressed her opinion that 'people need to be responsible' and should not be 'encouraged to be dependent'.

All the predictions by Progressives, a few who resigned from the Clinton Admin because of this Republican legislation, about the harm this would do to women and children, have come true.

Has she admitted how wrong she was in HER predictions as to what this bill would do yet?

Last I heard she was still 'very proud of' that awful legislation.

If she or her supporters care as they claim, about women, then why do I never this harmful legislation addressed by them?

[Armstead]

100. Got kinda quiet here

[NanceGreggs]

139. We've all seen ...

... the "polls" you rely on for your information.

[sabrina 1]

150. I'm sorry, but for me, politics IS about the American People. It isn't about politicians we 'love'

Being one of the American people who isn't part of the elite class Hillary is a part of, Bernie speaks for me.

Polls on what issues are the most important to the American People are easily available.

You are free to care about politicians, it's a free country after all.

But I CARE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and frankly your objections to that isn't going to change a thing.

[NanceGreggs]

152. Okay, you're on!

Post a link(s) to anything I have ever said on DU that constitutes "not caring about the American people, or what they think".

Post a link(s) to any evidence that the only people who are supporting HRC's candidacy are "of the elite class".

Post a link(s) to my "objections to caring about the AMERICAN PEOPLE".

Post a link(s) to where I have advocated the idea that "it's about politicians we 'love'".

"Polls on what issues are the most important to the American People are easily available."

Yes, sabrina, polls are easily available - and you just keep ignoring the polls that show that an overwhelming majority of Democrats support Hillary over Bernie. Are you really going to keep promoting the idea that the vast majority of HRC supporters are part of the "elite class", are water-carriers for the 1%, are not interested in the welfare of the country and their fellow citizens, are only interested in "politicians they love", and/or are too god-damned stupid to know what's in "their best interest"?

I find it incredibly amusing that you are citing polls at all - given your faith in a poll that declared that BS is poised to "win all 50 states" at a time when it is doubtful that he will even win one.

Don't worry, though - I am not holding my breath waiting for you to come up with the links I've requested - because we both know they don't exist.

"But I CARE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and frankly your objections to that isn't going to change a thing."

Again, post a link(s) to where I "objected to" you, or anyone else, "caring about the American people". Put up or shut up. Link or slink.

[sabrina 1]

155. She can't win wth just democrats. Dems are now only 32% of the electorate. Bernie already has over

25% of that vote. Voters have fled both parties over the past number of years. Repubs only 29% now.

The Independent vote is the largest it's been in living memory, showing how disillusioned voters are with the current system.

Hillary won't get the Indy vote.

Bernie's main support is coming from Independents and the even larger demographic, non-voters, who are now returning to the system to vote for him.

Polls only polling Dem votes at this point, do not show people who will not change their registration until they have to. Bernie is attracting voters from across the political spectrum.

I eg, helped sign up previously non-voters in NY which had an early registration date.

Hillary has practically zero crossover appeal. She represents the Status Quo and that is what voters are sick to death of and why both parties are losing voters.

Bernie will bring voters back into the party to vote for him

As for the rest of your questions, your obections to my caring about the American people are right here in this thread.

[NanceGreggs]

157. As expected ...

... when challenged on anything, you simply change the subject.

I asked for links supporting your assertions about my "objections to you caring about the American people", and everything else you have claimed.

You know and I know that no such links exist.

And you know and I know - and so does everyone else here - that you can't back-up a single claim you've made.

Link or slink. And spare us all your inevitable reply attempting to change the subject yet again. It's getting really old.

You've made very specific claims. Back 'em up.

[sabrina 1]

158. I answered your questions. Your posts in THIS thread objected to my caring about the American

People's opinions on what issues are of concern to them.

Hint, they don't care about Benghazi, or Hillary claiming to be a victim, and they are sick to death of smear campaigns and they agree with Sanders on almost every issue.

I agree with THEM. Top issue for the American People is Getting the Corporate Money out of politics.

[NanceGreggs]

159. Where did I say ...

... that I "objected to you caring about the American people's opinions"? And I note the original claim was that I "objected to you caring about the American people" - funny how that got changed.

I objected to you pretending that you speak for "the American people". I never said a thing about objecting to you, or anyone else, "caring" about Americans.

I gave you a list of things you have claimed, and asked you to provide links to back-up those claims.

Either you can back them up or you can't - so let's see how you fare.

[rhett o rick]

135. Funny how some Democrats have turned around on corp-media now that they

support HRC the corp-candidate. But then conservatives always believe the corporations will take care of us.

[treestar]

56. If Hillary's poll numbers go up, we are being denied Democracy?

The poll numbers go up because people are supporting her. That's Democracy. What an utterly silly sentence.

[senz]

98. Her poll numbers go up when the corporate media gushes over her.

Money talks. And that is not democracy.

[sabrina 1]

160. Just found out, lobbyists for the Corporate Media are working for Hillary.

[treestar]

162. her poll numbers go up because people answering the poll

say they want to vote for her!

Other people don't know their own minds? You're giving the media so much power. And insulting the people who say they support her, like they are only doing so sheep-like since the media "gushed" over her.

[sabrina 1]

151. We're being denied democracy when the Corp Media deletes its OWN POLLS showing Bernie not just

beating Hillary, but by a landslide. Why did they do that? Why would they want to hide the people's opinions AFTER they asked for them?

Shameful censorship, but then we ARE talking about the dying Corporate Propaganda Machine. Thankfully we have moved on to the future when it comes to media. No wonder their ratings are so low.

[treestar]

163. So it's all a big conspiracy?

Bernie is really winning in all 50 states?

Doubtful. Most of the time the election turns out as the polls expect it to be. I suspect the pollsters really are trying to gauge the voters' likely votes. There are many polling organizations. They are not all in on a conspiracy. That's tinfoil hat territory.

Deal with the reality that BS is way behind.

[sabrina 1]

156. What crossover votes is she going to get? Repubs? Bernie is. Independents who have fled both

parties over the past number of years? Bernie is. Non-voters, a huge demographic, disgusted with the Status Quo? Bernie is.

She can't win with just part of he Dem base even most of it.

Bernie's support is across the political spectrum. How is Hillary going to votes from people who are not Dems or Repubs due to the kind of policies she has always supported??

[antigop]

168. does she even live in the US? nt

[kenfrequed]

65. She speaks for me

I am a veteran and I am tired of Neonon invasions. I protested the Iraq War because I knew we were being sold a lie. I wasn't a Senator, but I could read and I could dissect information. The Iraq War was rooted in a lie.

But Americans ARE tired of these indefinite, unending military actions. Trying to say otherwise is absurd.

[Bread and Circus]

85. I don't know about "The" American People but "many" American People are sick of all these wars and i

And if you can't recognize that and be honest about that then you are being willfully blind and probably in the wrong party.

[Bread and Circus]

88. P.S. Hillary plays the victim card all the time. And you can't admit that then

it is as if you can't recognize reality. Or you have an alternative form of reality that is unrecognizable to many of us.

[azurnoir]

30. cause gee it's not like the Benghazi "issue" hasn't been on going since 2012 or anything

it wasn't like Hillary knew what would said , I mean she was ambushed and everything

[NanceGreggs]

112. Yeah, okay, so ...

... it was an absolute cakewalk, and just about anyone would have handled themselves in the same way HRC did?

Have you spread THAT bit of news among your fellow Bernie-supporters who, despite not supporting her candidacy, praised her incredible performance during the hearing?

Maybe you should PM them all, and explain to them that it was "no big whup" - or, as has been said in this thread, "a bunch of teenagers could have wiped the floor with them."

[TheKentuckian]

124. I've got enough faith in my fellow citizens and enough understanding to know they had NOTHING

that I'm confident with proper support staff and a couple of weeks of honest preparation that you could have acquitted yourself well.

In what areas do you think Clinton had to be brilliant to avoid weak areas to be exploited?

What parts of the Republican case do you feel were particularly strong?

Yeah, if we know they had jack apple shit for four years, that they are a bunch of fuckwits, and before they could even get to the questioning they were falling apart at the seams on the whole thing then it becomes somewhat difficult to also be in awe of making them look like fools since they did an excellent job of doing that themselves before the jump.

Was there some other reasonably plausible outcome?

[NanceGreggs]

125. Look ...

It's apparent that the new talking point among a certain contingent here is that acquitting herself as Hillary did was no big deal, anybody could have done as well, yadda yadda.

Fine. Believe what you want. And post about it often.

In the end, it still comes down to HRC winning the nomination and, in all likelihood, the presidency.

And you can huff and you can puff all you want. It won't change a thing.

[TheKentuckian]

126. Look you've got nothing so fall back on the weak condescension and faith in "winning"

Our lives and futures are of much more gravity and importance than a politicians ambition or their fan's fawning and back slapping.

Winning? I don't care about your "highbrow" football game but how that power is used for our interests.

[Logical]

153. Nance, you don't get it....

I praised hillary handling the idiots questioning her. I still think she is a terrible candidate and would be a terrible president.

I will vote for her if she is the nominee. But she has many issues.

[NanceGreggs]

154. Many people ...

... BS supporters, as well as HRC's worst enemies in the MSM and among the "punditry", had no problem acknowledging that her performance in the Benghazi hearing was downright awe-inspiring - yourself apparently among them.

I understand completely that it has not changed your mind about supporting her candidacy - and that's as it should be. You are focused on other aspects of her campaign, her record, her actions and her statements in assessing her bid for the nomination - and again, your criteria for who gets your support is based on valid questions as to her positions on important issues.

What I don't "get" is people who have found it necessary to diminish her performance before the hearing as "oh, well, anyone would have performed equally as well", when we all know that isn't the case.

I believe in giving credit where it's due, and NOT diminishing someone's ability to stand up to hours of grilling by the GOP, fraught with potential "gotcha!" questions as though - as one DUer put it - "a bunch of teenagers I know could have done the same".

Were BS hauled before such a hearing and was able to come off as cool, calm, collected, able to retrieve information, facts, and dates without hesitation and without ever losing his temper or his concentration, I would laud him from the rooftops for his ability to do so. It would not change my support for HRC - but I would never attempt to diminish Bernie's accomplishment in having performed above-and-beyond what was required under the circumstances.

It is unfortunate that some BS supporters (you apparently not being among them) would rather twist themselves into pretzels rather than admit that Hillary performed admirably.

[rhett o rick]

108. I see integrity as being much more important than being tough. I know that authoritarians will

disagree and see toughness as being more important than traits of integrity. She lost her integrity when she sold-out her party and joined the Republicons to sell the Iraq War.

[zappaman]

10. Do you have a link where Hillary portrays herself as a victim?

I know it's been a rough 10 days for Sanders supporters.
But, this is ridiculous.
Especially after she kicked ass on the hill.

But if this kind of fiction provides you comfort, knock yourself out.
It's amusing and sad...like good fiction is.

[NanceGreggs]

13. Well, are you going to believe your own eyes ...

... when sabrina can tell you for a fact that Hillary is portraying herself as a victim?

Just so's ya know, sabrina "knows" what "the American people" think - all of them - and she has their permission to speak for them here on DU.

[sabrina 1]

16. Any ISSUES you would like to discuss? Like War, Torture, Private Prisons, Welfare Reform? The TPP,

the Keystone Pipeline, the Money in Politics, a top issue btw, for the American people with over 80% saying that is one of their most important issues.

How about Social Security? Anything at all that is of interest to ordinary people?

[NanceGreggs]

21. How about discussing ...

... what you said in your own OP?

[sabrina 1]

22. Women's issues, absolutely. What would you like to discuss re women? I certainly don't appreciate

women going backwards.

[NanceGreggs]

24. Your OP states that ...

... Hillary is playing the victim. That IS what your own OP is about.

Now go back and read your responses to me - where you have attempted to change the subject every time with, "What about this, what about that, what about the other thing?"

If you really think anyone with a modicum of intelligence is buying the "Hillary is portraying herself as a victim" bullshit, you wouldn't be so anxious to talk about everything else but the topic you yourself raised.

I'd say that "women going backwards" would be exemplified by someone trying to convince anyone that HRC is portraying herself as a victim after last Thursday's events.

But good luck to ya - I'm sure there will be people here who buy into such nonsense - just like people here bought into the "Hillary was a Monsanto employee" post last night - despite the fact that it has been debunked for years.

There's a sucker born every minute - and I guess that's what you're relying on.

[sabrina 1]

32. Let me see if I can disect your comment and explain to you what you don't seem to understand.

My number one rule is to never take seriously, or even try to respond seriously, to people who launch personal attacks as soon as they jump into a thread.

Hurling insults and turning the topic around to be about the PERSON rather than the ISSUE, tells me not to even bother engaging, just throw out whatever comes to mind. That's all those who engage in personal attacks deserve.

I treat people the way they treat me. I'm not bothered by people who spend their time attacking people, got used to that a long, long time ago. But I don't engage in serious discussions with them.

Now on to your claim that Hillary never played the victim.

There are two choices here. Either she really FEELS like a victim or she was doing something worse, USING the fact that she is a woman to try to falsely claim that Bernie was shouting at her.

I am not a mind reader, I can only go by what she said.

Seems I'm not alone in my opinion of her playing the victim.

Apparently, what I feared most, she has provided perfect fodder to the right wing to go after Liberal Women, and that is exactly what they are doing using what she said.

I would like to distance MYSELF as a woman from what she said. I totally disagree with her that men shoutiing is because she is a woman. That is playing the victim.

She owns her words, I am not obligated to try to interpret them .When someone does something that damages me or my women friends and family I will respond to that.

IF it was a game, that is probably even worse. Either way it shows a woman who is weak, who either does feel like a victim, or who cannot face an opponent honestly and resorts to deceptive and false claims, which is also the sign of person who is weak and petty.

Take your pick. It is your candidate you should be angry with, she is making the job of defending here very difficult for you.

[boston bean]

41. Do you take yourself seriously? nt

[sabrina 1]

81. I see you do!

[treestar]

57. Women talking about women's rights

and the way women are treated are playing the victim?

[Fawke Em]

59. No - using something that wasn't sexism

to talk about women's rights is playing the victim.

What Sanders said was not sexist. By claiming it was, Hillary has downplayed real sexism.

[sabrina 1]

68. Exactly! It was llmost Rovian. Bernie is so strong on issues such as Women's Rights, it's hard to

honestly attack him. But if you go the Rovan way, that is what you do.

And either she was serious about being shouted down or she was being Rovian.. Either way it doesn't make her or women in general, look very good.

[sabrina 1]

161. Powerful, wealthy women playing the victim, pretending something happened that didn't is a total

turnoff to women. Most women do NOT behave like that and it is incredibly offensive for someone in Hillary's position to behave like that. She sounded like a weak, 'poor me' stereotype of women.

Even some of her own supporters cringed when they heard it. I have friends who support her, and they acknowledged this doesn't look good for women.

There really ARE women who are being victimized, whose voices are not heard, but she is not and never was one of them. Very offensive. It boosted Sanders in the eyes of many people.

I don't know who is advising her but it sounded like one of those Rovian 'let's turn a strength into a weakness'. We are all way too familiar with these tactics now to be fooled by them.

Bernie came out looking great as a result. People don't like that kind of phoniness.

[zappaman]

86. +1000!

[azurnoir]

31. ........

she portrays Bernie as being sexist with her as the victim

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1241655

[ismnotwasm]

46. Hillary kicks ass all over the place

I actually don't know what this "victim" crap is supposed to be about. The OP makes zero sense to me, but it's not the only one that makes no sense.

It's like the stuff about "the gender card" I want Hillary to talk about gender, I want gender and other social justice issues to be front and center. My friends who support Hillary and I, are proud of her battling for women and women's rights around the world --many women who are victims, victims of henious acts. I'm not about to tell those women they aren't victims, to learn from the experience of oh, say rape. That's fucked up.

[NBachers]

23. It was a big bilious issue on Morning Joe on Tuesday, October 27th

Morning Joe Hosts: Hillary Clinton Is Acting "Like A Little, Sad Victim," It's "Absolutely Pathetic"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/10/27/morning-joe-hosts-hillary-clinton-is-acting-lik/206441

Watch as much as you can handle.

[sabrina 1]

27. And that's why it was such a ridiculous thing to do. She provided FODDER for the

far right regarding 'Liberal Women' who they have consistently mocked as 'weak victims'. That's all they needed and it is something most of us would never give them.

I knew that would happen the minute I heard what she said.

Most women I know would NEVER have provided those morons with that kind of material. What WAS she thinking?

[azurnoir]

33. do we really have to ask that? really?

[Sheepshank]

63. so now Morning Joe speaks for you?

and says what you would loved to have said out loud on the airwaves? pathetic fawning of someone that has been denigrated on this site for a very long time. imho.

Most women I know would NEVER have provided those morons with that kind of material. What WAS she thinking?

Morons are provided with material and they are running with it? Well alrighty then.

[rhett o rick]

106. No one is arguing that she isn't tough. The problem is that tough isn't enough. I am sure she will

fight hard but for Goldman-Sachs first. I look for integrity and after she betrayed her Party and helped Bush/Cheney sell their war, I don't see her with integrity.

[zappaman]

110. No link.

Got it.

[MattSh]

15. Hillary is all about Hillary...

and if she has to throw half the population under the bus for her to achieve her goals, she'll do it. Just collateral damage, as they say in DC speak.

[sabrina 1]

17. True, we saw that in the last campaign in 2008. Same old negative campaigning, same old

personal attacks instead of any discussion of issues from her supporters. I remember it well. It didn't work for her last time, so why they are doing it again, is beyond me.

[MattSh]

18. Can't help herself?

That's who she is?

It shouldn't take an Einstein to understand that...

[Helen Borg]

26. She is powerful but...

There is still sexism with her peers, I bet...

[sabrina 1]

28. Who cares? There are all kinds of obstacles that powerful people have to be able to handle.

How about death threats, imprisonment? That a bit more serious than some ignorant idiot with no power to harm you.

And she was trying to paint Sanders as a sexist even MORE ridiculous and it has fallen like a burst balloon even among people who support her.

Now either she is too sensitive to be president, too fearful of men who might shout a bit too loudly, or she was playing games.

I take her at her word, that she is a victim, rather than a strong leader. But she needs to do women a favor and make it clear she is speaking only for herself.

[BainsBane]

34. Hillary Clinton is one of the strongest women on the planet

And YOU are in no position to question her strength.

Whether or not you agree with Clinton's take on the shouting business, her raising it does not make her a victim and it DOES NOT set women back. You are speaking about a woman who has done more in her life than most of us do in ten lifetimes, a woman who will quite likely be President of the United States. She is remarkably strong, much stronger than I am and certainly much stronger than you are. She does NOT play the victim. She has been Senator, Secretary of State. She stood up to 11 hours of interrogation by the GOP house, chewed them up and spit them out. Bernie Sanders balked with interrupted on stage by two women, and his supporters rushed to his defense. That you would pretend there is anything weak about Clinton is ludicrous.

You do not speak for all women or even most women, the majority of whom will be voting for Hillary Clinton and do not share your view that women are expected to remain silent when they feel they have been disrespected or their rights violated. You belong to another era, an ethos that thinks its acceptable to invoke right-wing tropes of gender card and race card. Such tropes are part of the apparatus of white patriarchal power, a kind of power far more enduring and intractable than any temporal political power.

The people most focused on Clinton's gender are those who despise her, and there is a very good reason for that. While I rarely discuss it, I have not failed to observe the fact that gender underlies the extraordinary animosity toward Clinton, disproportionate to anything in her record. I observe it but I rarely discuss it because I know there is no point; those who do it simply do not care. Feminist academics and writers can take on that analysis, and this election has already given them plenty to work with.

Your post shows desperation. You have no policy or issue to discuss because you have point blank refused to read Clinton's policy positions. That level of contempt toward Clinton depends on disinformation, and her actual policies and voting record get in the way of the contrived narrative. Your post shows the desperation of someone searching for whatever they can to try to take down a very strong woman who is on the rise. Go right ahead. Preach away to your echo chamber. Your protestations amount to nothing. Hillary Clinton will carry on being successful and strong, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I am so looking forward to election day 2016.

[boston bean]

42. Good post! Thanks for typing it out! + a million!!!!!!

[ismnotwasm]

47. Thank you!

I have to go, I don't have time for this type of --whatever it is-- but thank you for taking the time for a excellent and intelligent thought out response!

I too am looking forward to Election Day.

[pinebox]

52. Actually we all ARE in position to question her strength

This bothers me greatly.

Hillary Clinton is one of the strongest women on the planet. And YOU are in no position to question her strength.

No, we ARE in position to question her strengths. ALL of us. Each and every single one of us. Just as you are to question Bernie. She's a politician running for the highest office in the land and serves who again? The people of the United States. Each and every politician SHOULD be questioned by the people of this country, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, no matter who it is that you're questioning.

I take great issue with your assertion above. Teddy said it best;

[treestar]

166. OK so questioning Bernie's is fine too.

It's not ageism or anything.

[pinebox]

169. You should be

All of our politicians should be questioned and held accountable. Every. Single. One.
Agism? I would call into question "why" considering Hillary is just a few years younger. If your entire argument is about someone's age, well, personally I think your argument would be pretty weak but that's just me.

[Dawgs]

54. "And YOU are in no position to question her strength"

Are you fucking kidding? She's running for President.

[sabrina 1]

69. Amazing, isn't it? We have no rights at all it seems.

Women unless they subscribe to being TOLD who and what they are supposed to think, agree with, should remain silent. They 'are not in a position'?? It's simply stunning the level of authoritarianism towards any woman who is an independent thinker.

[sufrommich]

55. I love you so much,Bain.

You always get to the crux of the matter.

[sabrina 1]

60. Is there a law that says people are not allowed to speak the truth

Strong people do not play political games, they don't have to.

Bernie is strong. Hillary not so much.

[Bobbie Jo]

61. Excellent post!

Damn, you nailed it.

[R B Garr]

94. Excellent again, Bains, all of it.

The constant false analogies and false equivalencies need to be called out.

[Number23]

101. DAYYYUUUUUMMMM!!!!!

Bernie Sanders balked with interrupted on stage by two women, and his supporters rushed to his defense.

Oh my God!!! You went there!! You TOOK IT THERE!! Oh my goodness!!

Oh Lordy. This post made the typical head scratching nonsensicalness of this OP all worthwhile. Just yesterday the OP was telling bravenak what it meant to be black in America (and does this kind of jaw dropping crap ALL OF THE TIME) so surely you're not any more surprised by this OP than anyone else of intelligence here.

Oh Lordy... That was good, Bain. That was VERY good.

[Dem2]

111. Thanks for putting things back into perspective.

I'm so tired of supporters of one candidate not having anything better to do than attack a person that Bernie himself has shown significantly more respect for than many of those who seem obsessed with tearing her down.

[betsuni]

113. [phone]etc.

[stevil]

118. Holy Crap

Perfect!

[seaglass]

133. Bains, congrats on a most excellent post. Amazing how women who stand up for themselves are

characterized as playing the victim. How does anything change if one remains silent?

[Avalux]

149. Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Sure Hillary has had to work hard to be where she is, but hell - I'm a stronger woman than Hillary Clinton.

She has no idea what it's like to be a single mother. She didn't have the guts to cut ties with Bill and strike out on her own.

[treestar]

165. Awesome post

I agree, like most women who succeed, it takes Hillary ten times the effort to get there than it does for a man.

[NCTraveler]

36. Hillary isn't up 41 in Iowa. She is up, but not by 41.

It's not time to go Gowdy yet. Truly offensive op.

[George II]

44. How many OPs are you going to post on this subject?

[JoePhilly]

45. This nonsense again?

Hillary just crushed 7 GOP members over 11 hours ... sure didn't seem like she was a victim then.

I do have a feeling that after she wins the primary there will be lots of disgruntled DU folks claiming to be victims for sure.

[NanceGreggs]

89. Well, according to sabrina ...

... "it doesnt take much strength to deal with those nitwits. I know teenagers who could wipe the floor with them."

[zappaman]

90. Of course...

of course.

[JoePhilly]

92. She should get them to run for office.

[AzDar]

48. K & R

[AzDar]

50. Seems many Hillary supporters are mistaking ambition for strength.

[Sheepshank]

64. Weak and feckless does not equate to ambition in my book.

Ambitious people tend to have their strengths and they use that to acheive a goal. Bernie employs his own strengths to acheive his ambitions.

Your post is amazingly off kilter.

[AzDar]

66. Truly strong women do not level a charge of 'sexism' as a political maneuver. Period.

As for your kilter... you might want to look into recalibration.

[Sheepshank]

71. A strong woman would not keep quiet about such things and let it fester.

Shining a light on it is the best and strongest way to deal with it.

A weaker person would be afraid of the confrontation.

You clearly don't have a clue what it takes to be strong.

[AzDar]

75. Good lord, you aren't seriously contending that Bernie's remark was sexist, are you?

[Sheepshank]

91. spin spin spin...I was describing a strong woman. Good day.

fucking waste of time dealing with people who twist words.

[AzDar]

93. Okaaay, then. Bye, Felicia.

[KoKo]

83. ...! Good Point....

I see little of her that she didn't gain by privilege and access that realized her ambitions. The Clintons are a Team. She benefits from him as he has benefited from her by her standing by him after the scandals of his Presidency.

The "Blue Dress" was Real, his lie about his Relationship with Monica Lewinsky was Real. Much as we want to push that all out of the way, and I surely did at the time...blaming everything on the Repubs until Bill lied. While those scandals were going on in his Presidency he was busy deregulating like a Republican and it wasn't until after his Presidency (with the Dot Com Crash and what followed with BushII) that we found out how his NeoLib policies helped to undermine the Middle Class as NAFTA, Wall Street Regulations put in place by FDR, the FCC Guidelines for our Airwaves and other Agencies Policies were "Reformed." And here we are today.

Her life is filled with access and privilege.

[Skidmore]

141. Funny how for men both of these are seen as

good or desirable qualities and present in tandem. Isn't it shocking that a woman dares step forward to try to claim the office? Not a single ego seeking office is devoid of ambition, even Sanders. Anyone who believes otherwise is naive.

[treestar]

167. Is there something wrong with ambition?

The two go hand in hand, I would think.

And this would not be directed at a male candidate.

[MattSh]

67. Sadly it seems Aung San Suu Kyi may not be all that heroic either...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027295020

[randys1]

76. Nothing is off limits if you want to attack Hillary, evidently

[sabrina 1]

78. Didn't you get that backwards? The despicable attack was launched by Hillary

against Sanders. We are not supposed to respond to these disgusting negative campaign tactics? You can forget that idea. If her campaign and supporters don't want to see her challenged on her smear campaigns, then she can always follow Bernie's example and run a clean campaign absent the same old dirty tricks and smears, turn down all that Corporate money that pays for this revolting part of our political system, she won't need it.

And as Bernie says, do something Radical, talk about the ISSUES.

[DonCoquixote]

77. if Hill wins the primary, I will vote against the GOP, but

that is voting for her is the only way to keep the GOP out of power, and nothing else.

The idea that Hill is a step up is ludicrous, she like Obama sadly, turned out to be a shield that many wall street sleazes used to hide behind, hiding the fact that the only thing that separates them from the GOP is that they want wealthier people to enjoy using their money to afford to exercise their civil rights, as for the poor LGBT couples, they really do not care, not because they are LGBT, but because they are poor.

Add to this the knowledge that Bill will be in the back, smiling that "I regret nothing" smiles, knowing that whenever Hillary hits a patch, out will roll mr. "minister of splainign stuff."

[EndElectoral]

137. Great post. One thing about Mrs. Clinton. She is certainly divisive.

[prayin4rain]

138. Yes. Poor, weak, victim is EXACTLY the image put forth by Hillary Clinton

over the last 35 years. Congratulations on making the most utterly absurd attack on Hillary so far. Really, kudos. That was a stretching of reality rarely undertaken in public discourse.

Hillary Clinton is setting women back! I've officially heard it all now.