Bernie Sanders is in big trouble

[Cali_Democrat]

Bernie Sanders is in big trouble: You don’t have to be a neoliberal shill to see the cold, hard facts
GARY LEGUM

<...>

But if you want to know any of the reasons why Sanders is in trouble, you can start with the news yesterday that Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown has endorsed Clinton. As Matt Yglesias points out, Brown would be perhaps the most natural endorsement for Sanders in the entire Senate. He is an old-school liberal, pro-union and anti-free trade. Ideologically and personally, he and the senator from Vermont are very close. They have worked together on writing and introducing legislation as recently as earlier this month.

Yet Brown joined 33 of his Senate colleagues who have already endorsed Clinton. From a pragmatic political viewpoint, the move makes sense. Brown has been mentioned as a possible vice presidential candidate for Clinton. He represents that most swinging swing state of Ohio, which makes his being on the ticket very attractive for her and the party. If he stays in the Senate, he’s up for re-election in the 2018. Since getting Democratic voters out to the polls in the midterms is always tough, an endorsement from President Hillary Clinton could be very helpful. Not to mention the money that the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee will be more likely to contribute to his campaign.

In terms of the Bernie Sanders campaign for president though, Brown’s endorsement is another sign that Sanders is being beaten in the invisible primary for the Democratic nomination. And winning the invisible primary is still a hugely important step for a Democrat, one that the Vermont senator has either neglected or just flat-out lost.

For anyone unfamiliar with the term “invisible primary,” here is a pretty good explainer. In brief, the invisible primary is the conversation that takes place between different factions and leaders of a party in the year leading up to the start of voting in Iowa. This conversation results in the party starting to coalesce behind a front-runner. If there is more than one strong candidate, this can go all the way up to the convention. If there is only one clear front-runner, the party will start lining up early behind him or her.

Read more:

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/28/bernie_sanders_is_in_big_trouble_you_dont_have_to_be_a_neoliberal_shill_to_see_the_cold_hard_facts/

[JRLeft]

1. This thing was over after the first debate.

[workinclasszero]

83. True

The Bernie fans are still grieving and pretending there's life left in his dead campaign though.

[erlewyne]

94. Insanity

Next March when Hillary backers watch and record the same polls
expecting different results.

GO BERNIE!!!

[George II]

169. Now they're probably thinking..."too many debates!"

[restorefreedom]

2. the fact that weenie brown could be bought or intimidated

just further entrenches the reality of the Clinton machines long reach and obscene amounts of power. Just another piece of evidence that establishment politics and politicians have to go.

[Agschmid]

10. We are calling people "Weenie's" now?

[restorefreedom]

11. well, you don't have to, but it was the word that fit for me at that moment.

if you're offended I'm sorry about that, but based on all of his previous positions, his sudden endorsement of Hilary has a lot more to do with strategy, positioning, money, and job security than it does have to do with any policy affinity between the two of them. And in my mind that makes him a weenie.

dammit there i go again!

[Agschmid]

12. Keep on keeping on...

Elevate that discussion.

[restorefreedom]

13. i shall make my best efforts, cheers. nt

[sabrina 1]

34. I hope you will admonish some of your co-Hillary supporters on considering raising the level of

discussion here. I haven't noticed you doing that.

Not to worry, I do my best in that regard when I come across the daily personal attacks, the smears and mockery, a horrible tactic btw, I remember when I was a lot more naive, I thought that was the kind of low, gutter level tactic used only by far Right Wing Bush bots.

[Agschmid]

51. Like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=737816

[Agschmid]

54. Or this one where I supported self deleting a divisive post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=737893

And those are just from today.

Shall I go on?

[Agschmid]

57. Or this one where I stood up for O'Malley and his supporters...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=732715

[sabrina 1]

62. My apologies. I appreciate your efforts and don't mind admitting when I am wrong about someone.

The first two, I did not see the OP but apparently it is today's talking point, when will Bernie drop out? I could be wrong but from the comments, that appears to be what it was about.

Seems to be going the rounds, telling us it is a talking point.

Thank you for your fairness and again, my apologies.

[Agschmid]

69. No problem.

[MineralMan]

63. Who has called any of Sanders' Senate endorsers a "weenie?"

I'll wait here for your answer. Oh...wait...never mind.

[sabrina 1]

75. Thanks for the example of what I meant about some of Hillary supporters.

The situation has been resolved, in a mature, adult fashion.

Probably would have been better if you had waited a little longer before jumping in with a feeble attempt at 'snide'.

That tends to lower the level of discussion.

Thankfully we were able to discuss the issue and resolve it without any of that.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

81. The sheer irony of this coming from you is why DU is so amusing

In a sad sort of way.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[JDPriestly]

119. It's really a dispute between teh CorruptDemocrats and the Bernie Democrats.

The reality of the "SUPER-DELEGATES" and the corruption they represent within the Democratic Party is a problem.

We who support Bernie want a reality and a community in which there is less corruption than there is now.

I think we can get it. But it may mean, at least for me, sitting out the 2016 election.

In my view, Hillary represents the corruption that was personified in the Citizens United decision.

It is destroying our country, and we need to defeat it.

It's just a matter of time.

A populist movement is rising.

As the economy changes, and our economy has changed and will change more, the economic systems do not work. They don't function well.

Our country is not functioning well for most of us. We will get change.

Obama recognized the Zeitgeist of change but was not strong enough to achieve it. He was too tied to the Hillary, then Third Way crowd.

We will get our democratic revolution. It will happen.

I'm betting on Bernie.

Hillary has a history of getting up to bat and then striking out. She's done it in the past. She will do it again. Her "I'm the victim" stance will eventually end her campaign.

All Bernie hast to do is hang in there.

There will be good days and bad days. But Bernie is speaking for the people and has the best ideas on policy. He will win. He is already winning as Hillary has to speak to Bernie's issues, not the other way around.

[Locrian]

122. well said - thanks - nt

[azmom]

141. The fact she sounds a lot like Bernie

now, is proof positive that the pogressive movement is winning.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

190. The fact that you actually believe this is even more sad

Setting aside the bogus statements you made in your apocalyptic screed writing, how do you imagine your "victory" is going to come about?

Who exactly is going to vote for Sanders now that isn't supporting him at the moment?

All those "corrupt" Hillary voters that you hate? Why should they join a movement that so obviously has such pure unreasoning hatred for them?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Cha]

168. "weenie brown".. they have to resort to that.. what are they calling John Lewis?

[sheshe2]

176. Holy~

This ship is sinking....

[George II]

174. "Sudden"?

[oasis]

140. No bus for Sherrod, he goes under the Oscar Mayer "Weenie" Wagon.

so sad.

[NCTraveler]

14. Weenie Brown? The mask is fully off. nt.

[restorefreedom]

18. no mask was ever on. i call out cowards as i see 'em. nt

[MineralMan]

66. And now he's a "coward," too?

Doubling down on insulting a progressive Senator? How nice.

[restorefreedom]

70. ok, how about "opportunist"?

that is as generous as i can be given his blatant pandering against his own positions, sorry.

[sheshe2]

178. Coward. Weenie. Opportunist.

Want to add a few more insults to a Respected Democrat here?

[restorefreedom]

182. no, i think i have pretty much covered it. nt

[MoonRiver]

31. Yes

[NCTraveler]

40. I find their honesty to be refreshing.

They say the mask hasn't come off. It is how they have always thought.

[MoonRiver]

133. Except they are totally transparent.

[sabrina 1]

41. I never noticed a mask to begin with. Brown has done stuff like this before. I remember well

when he was up for reelection several years ago, what he and his campaign together with Chuck Schumer did to his opponent.

My surprise regarding Brown was his more recent attacks on the TPP eg, from what I remembered of him, I expected him to take the party line. It was a pleasant surprise.

This step is not a surprise, and I guess I was overly optimistic about him. I wonder what he'll do now regarding his former, newly found courage re taking on the status quo.

[NCTraveler]

48. " Brown has done stuff like this before"

Correct. He has a track record of supporting good progressives. You are all rapidly locking yourselves in a room with one and other. I'm not impressed by your spin.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. And Under the Bus Brown goes ...! n/t

[restorefreedom]

21. i didn't put him there.. he went himself

by selling out his progressive ideals and his close ally to try and suck up to the rich and powerful.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. Perhaps ...

by selling out his progressive ideals and his close ally to try and suck up to the rich and powerful.

In his estimation, it's better to sit at the table with your progressive ideals; than, sit outside with your close ally.

[restorefreedom]

35. and that, what you just said

about sitting inside versus sitting outside describes perfectly the crux of this entire election cycle. The insiders want to continue to rule, but the outsiders are storming the gates.

[yeoman6987]

78. He endorsed the democratic candidate

That's what they are supposed to do. O'Malley is to low in the polls so he didn't get the endorsement.

[restorefreedom]

80. "the democratic candidate"

bernie is more of a true dem than most. that is pretty clear.

[brooklynite]

96. Except that the nomination doesn't go to the "true" Democrat...

...it goes to the candidate the Democrats choose (and note - I acknowledge that voting hasn't started, but available data points to the likely choice). Now feel free to opine that the voters aren't "real" Democrats either.

[restorefreedom]

103. the voters should decide the nominee

I never said otherwise. I was objecting to the suggestion that Sherrod Brown endorsed Hillary because Bernie isn't a real democrat, when he has been more democratic in his voting than many who have the D after their name.

[sheshe2]

179. Ok...

Yet he is not and sure had no use for Dems before he wanted to run on our ticket. He may vote with them when it suits them, yet he sure doesn't like them.

Introducing Bernie Sanders the Hypocrite

Just 9 years ago Bernie won the Vermont Democratic primary for the 2006 Senate race as a write-in candidate — there was no serious opposition — but he declined to accept the nomination. Why? Because he's always insisted he is NOT a Democrat. In fact, he has said that it would be hypocritical of him to run as a Democrat:

snip

Well, we're all free to change our minds, maybe Bernie doesn't think being a hypocrite isn't so bad any more. Or maybe he's just decided the Democratic Party isn't quite as disgusting as he used to think it was. But what exactly has Bernie said about the Democratic Party? Let Bernie tell you in his own words:

snip

What did his Democratic colleagues think of him?

“He screams and hollers, but he is all alone.”

- Rep. Joe Moakley (D-Mass.)

“Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”

Oh Please Keep Readinghttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/15/1409803/-Introducing-Bernie-Sanders-the-Hypocrite#

Ha!

[restorefreedom]

183. the party system has become corrupt

and no other voices are allowed. even voices WITHIN the party have not been allowed unless they conflrm to dws's specifications. donors call the shots and big-money rules everything, and no one even has a chance of getting into politics without either a lot of grassroots support like Bernie or some really big money donors.

bernie running against the system is exactly the point. the establishment political system has been corrupt for a long time and we need a complete redo. At least he's trying. Not like some others who scoop up campaign donations like a hoover from corporate tax cheats and institutions who are supposedly the "enemy"

i'm glad Bernie's not part of the party establishment. That's exactly why I like him and why so many other people do too.

[sabrina 1]

47. People here don't seem to remember much about Brown's hstory when it came to his own

best interests. It might be a good time to take a look back at his actions against an opponent who many of us were supporting. And how the party machine came in and destroyed that candidate's chances of winnng.

Those of us who don't develop anmesia when it is convenient have always had reservations about him since then. Along with his buddy Schumer.

Caused a huge split among Democrats at the time

I took him briefly out from under the bus where I tend to keep people who earned their there, when he began to show some courage re the TPP.

But this is no surprise at all. He is a party man and always was and when it comes to his own interests, he is doing exactly what he has done in the past.

[whathehell]

67. You've referenced it twice now, so tell us..

What did Brown do to his opponent in that race?

FWIW, I've always liked Brown and am also disappointed in his endorsement of Hillary.

[restorefreedom]

76. thanks, sabrina

the background on him has been forgotten

and he seems to be an establishment guy after all, although like you i had higher hopes for him.

that must be some good position he will be getting...

[cascadiance]

125. As an unemployed techie now, calling "Mr. H-1B supporter" Schumer a "progressive" insults me...

He's the one that always has worked with Republicans to push in H-1B program quota expansion riders in to bills like the Immigration bill, which should have been clean and not added NON-IMMIGRATION chunks like that to corrupt it. And I say that H-1B is NOT an immigration program because it ISN'T! It basically looks to have TEMPORARY foreign workers come here as indentured servants and not to have real immigrants move to our country to become a part of our system rather than sending earnings and savings to families overseas and returning there later to build overseas economies and not ours (only rewarding the profits of the 1% owners that pay less in salaries and have less organized labor working for them).

It's too bad that Brown has to support American worker exploiting H-1B pols like Hillary and Schumer now instead of building on to his stances against the American worker exploiting TPP.

[TheKentuckian]

167. Progressive as defined by not being a proud bigot and not being a delusional anti government loon.

This applies even if one mostly thinks of government as an important facilitator of capital and the essential defender of wealth.

This is done mostly to allow right wing nuttery to occupy center right and for extreme radical regressive craziness to drift ever more into the acceptable mainstream right while banishing what used to be center to center left and driving it to the wild haired fringe and anything left of it off the map.

The more regressive the sick fiends they seek "compromise" reflexively with the more corporate owned and right wing this country can be.

Yes, I believe the fight is with the Turd Way because until they are removed from control it is impossible to actually fight right wing policy. Instead we are left with resisting cartoonish bigotry and implementing airbrushed versions of their toxic schemes and fighting tooth and nail for it while they fire up the V12 on the motorized goalposts and run to new levels of batshit and we chase them.

ENOUGH!

I've got no more tolerance and no more ground to give.

[workinclasszero]

87. Damn its crowded under the Bernie bus

and all the cool people are there too!

[phleshdef]

17. As a Bernie supporter and an Ohioian I find your characterization of one our best Senators...

...very offensive.

[restorefreedom]

20. i am sorry esp to ohioans if you find the term upsetting

i will be happy to substitute "opportunistic" if that is less offensive. i just don't see how any progressive can see this as anything other than abject pandering to the one seen as the likely nominee..

[phleshdef]

25. I'm disappointed that Brown isn't endorsing Bernie.

But its his right to endorse who he wants to and he doesn't deserve childish name calling over it, especially considering his spectacular record.

[restorefreedom]

29. i understand. but my assessment of his motives stands

however, out of respect for ohioans and others who like him, i will stop calling him a weenie. but i do think there is a very self serving and opportunistic reason behind this, and i am not going to give him a pass on that.

acceptable compromise?

[Cha]

170. Thank you phleshdef.. I agree. But, I think Sen Brown should wear it as a badge of honor. It's

says nothing about him.

[phleshdef]

180. Its his prerogative. His voting record speaks for itself and its a very good one.

[MohRokTah]

32. Didn't take long to throw one of the most liberal Senators under the Sanders bus. eom

[restorefreedom]

37. no throwing, he walked there. please see #21 for more nt

[MohRokTah]

42. No, you threw him under the bus.

You.

In your post.

You are the one who THREW Sherrod Brown under the bus.

You personally. Denying it now doesn't alter the fact. You threw Sherrod Brown under the because because you didn't like the fact that he endorsed somebody other than your candidate.

That is the very definition of throwing somebody under the bus.

[restorefreedom]

50. he abandonded progressives with his opportunistic endorsement and his desire

to hang with the rich and famous. as i see it, he sprinted towards that bus.

but we can disagree on that point, fine with me

[MohRokTah]

53. And you just backed up the bus to throw him under again.

Yes, you have thrown Sherrod Brown under the bus because you disagree with his endorsement choice.

HE didn't abandon anybody. You abandoned him.

[restorefreedom]

59. his endorsement is his right.

as is mine to state my opinion that he sold progressives up the river. besides i don't even have a bus driving license

[MohRokTah]

71. And that statement is throwing him under the bus.

[restorefreedom]

73. my arms aren't that strong, trust me. nt

[MohRokTah]

74. Yetl, you threw Brown under the bus twice in this subthread. eom

[restorefreedom]

77. if it makes you happy to think that,

then have at it. but however it's described, he seems to be supporting a candidate that is not in line with his previously stated progressive views .to me that makes him opportunistic, cowardly, and a panderer.

shall we count this as number three?

[MohRokTah]

82. You can believe that if it makes you happy...

but he endorsed the candidate he felt best capable of promoting his progressive principles.

And what you did, twice, is precisely the definition of "throwing under the bus".

[restorefreedom]

85. then i guess he is not as progressive as i always thought.

good to know.

[MohRokTah]

86. Either that, or you may want to reassess your own positions.

You may find you have become a radical leftist extremist.

[restorefreedom]

90. that would be a good thread

you might be a radical leftist extremist if........



actually, i am considerably left of traditional center, but probably where a lot of the country is now.

right smack in bernieland.

[MohRokTah]

93. Sanders doesn't enjoy anywhere near that level of support.

For every Democratic supporter of Sander, two support Hillary right now.

So your claims ring hollow.

[restorefreedom]

100. there will only be one way we will know

when people vote

[MohRokTah]

101. It's all over already.

Everything from now until New Hampshire is just a side show.

Sanders won't even make it to Super Tuesday. He may be lucky to make it to Iowa.

[restorefreedom]

106. real believer in the power of the vote, i see. nt

[MohRokTah]

111. Yes, I am.

When you enjoy twice the support of your nearest opponent in the polls, you've won before the votes are cast.

IF you want to know how these things play out, look at Obama v. Keyes for Illinois Senate, 2004.

[restorefreedom]

114. how about we look at obama v clinton 2008?

oh, never mind. that didn't turn out as "it was supposed to."

if you want to party hearty over the fact that you think Hillary has already won the nomination, go right ahead. But the people are going to get a chance to speak. And many of those people are not showing up in traditional polls. And I do believe many will be stunned.but enjoy the party while it lasts......

[MohRokTah]

132. Look, I've met Obama

Sanders is no Obama.

Nowhere close to Obama.

[BootinUp]

134. .

[restorefreedom]

144. they are very different.

Obama presented as a "change candidate" and then sold us down the river with hawkish policy and crappy trade. Bernie is the real deal.

so you are correct. they are very different.

[MohRokTah]

148. Sanders is just another crappy politician.

You're being conned if you think he could do anything differently from Obama.

In fact, he'll do even worse bceause he is alienating both sides of the aisle.

[restorefreedom]

149. it depends on who else his supporters vote for

if the millennial's and all the others that are supporting Bernie also vote in a wave of progressives then he will have people to work with. And the only reason he's "alienating" both sides of the aisle is because there are corporate owned third wayers on both sides of the aisle. That's the whole point of this election to clean out the establishment, democracy blocking corruption and start fresh.

[MohRokTah]

150. No, really, it doesn't.

The GOP will control the House until at least January 3, 2023 due to the way the districts are drawn. There is no way to take back the House until then and only then if we are smart and take back state legislatures and governorships in the 2020 election.

So, there's no way for Sanders to make good on a single promise he is making.

Hillary, on the other hand, knows how to deal with the opposition and will make at least some accomplishments until the House is taken back.

So it's your choice, go for the rhetorical purity of Sanders and get nothing, or go for the reality of Hillary and get some of your agenda advanced.

[Gore1FL]

121. Ifit is already over, we should just abandon democracy and declare Hillary Queen. n/t

[MohRokTah]

130. Well, Sanders should see the writing on the wall and just drop out...

but you know typical politicians and their egos.

[Gore1FL]

142. Yeah! Hillary was in the race forever in 2008

It's amazing how shitty she was about that.

[MohRokTah]

147. She still could have pulled it out all the way into May.

Obama didn't clinch the nomination until June 3.

[Gore1FL]

165. When did Hillary clinch?

Why didn't she concede in 2007 like you want her opponents to do now?

If you'd like to continue your attempts to take untenable positions, please proceed.

[MohRokTah]

166. She actually had a damned good chance of winning...

Unlike Sanders in this election.

[Gore1FL]

186. How do you know Sanders doesn't have a chance?

Crystal ball? Crystal meth?

Mostly, I see you playing playing the role of soothsayer and spamming smilies when someone points out that you are doing nothign but playing wishful thinking.

I am glad you didn't advise Obama.

Truth is, the election is a long way off. Even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he'll drag Clinton to the left. Bottom line is, neither you nor I know what the outcome of election 2016 is anymore than we know the outcome of the 2015 Wold Series after 2 games. (KC is ahead by 2, but despite the odds the Met's aren't out of it.)

If you would like to continue this discussion, please proceed.

[MohRokTah]

187. You're kidding, right?

Seriously, you MUST be kidding, right?

[Gore1FL]

191. No I am not kidding. I cannot foretell the future.

I don't have those mad soothsayer skills that you claim to have.

Do you really want to continue your attempts to defend an untenable position? If so, please proceed.

Edited to ask: If Hillary is such a shoe-in, why does having competition for the nomination scare you so much?

[bkkyosemite]

137. I am getting pretty upset at supporters of Bernie throwing

in the towel saying she will win. BS............

[Gore1FL]

188. I haven't seen Sanders supporters doing that.

I see a lot of Hillary supporters who fear a Sanders campaign doing it, though.

[MineralMan]

60. Weak. Now you resort to calling a progressive legislator a "weenie"

I'm sorry, but that's just lame. Sherrod Brown is a good guy. He's been on the progressive side of every piece of legislation I've seen. But, since he endorsed Hillary Clinton, he's suddenly a "weenie." Forgive me if I simply ignore whatever you say from now on.

[restorefreedom]

110. your prerogative

but for the record, i have changed it to "opportunist."

[SleeplessinSoCal]

129. or you could say he's a pragmatist interested in party unity.

[restorefreedom]

143. i think he is a pragmatist

interested in his own future. sorry, he may be for party unity, too, but i see it as largely self serving.

[MineralMan]

158. Too late really.

Some things stick. You didn't change any of your post, anyway. They're still there with the same, ugly name calling. Ugh!

[restorefreedom]

159. i am not the one who has a problem with it

and terminology aside, i will not apologize for saying he is acting like a typical self serving establishment pol., cuz that is exactly what i see.

edit..most of us don't get to actually meet these politicians and don't get to know them as people. We have to go by the record and by how they behave. This endorsement tells me that he's not interested in following his previously stated progressive views. Actions speak louder as they say.

[restorefreedom]

161. i respect your ever present civility, and i have one more thing to say

if you read through my posts hopefully you will see that I try and stay on issues and try to deal in facts. I'm not gonna say that I am free of Snark, but I avoid name-calling or smear tactics against a candidate or their supporters. I try and connect on the issues no matter who the person supports.brown's endorsement of Hillary was a blow to me., And although I believe he is acting as a political opportunist, I was willing to change my terminology out of respect for those whose feelings were hurt. you are free to converse with and ignore anyone you like, I'm just suggesting that if you hold to a standard that no one can have a emotional moment that doesn't always express itself perfectly, you might have a short list of people with whom to converse. And that's fine as long as that's what you want. this is an election that has a lot of meaning to the future of this country. People are gonna be emotional. And for what its worth it doesn't even compare to some of what has been said about bernie, not that i want to get into any of that.

[Dems to Win]

68. As a Bernie supporter, I object to Sherrod Brown being called a weenie

One of a handful of truly progressive Senators. I'm not going to call him names because I disagree with his endorsement.

[restorefreedom]

79. i agreed upthread to change it to "opportunist."

thats as far as i can go.

[840high]

104. That's the truth. Amen.

[restorefreedom]

108. wow, someone not here to tell me i just threw brown under the bus

welcome to the kitchen. its pretty hot in here!

[George II]

171. Who is "weenie brown"?

[sheshe2]

175. You insult Senator Sherrod Brown?

Pretty damn low. Guess he has no brain and is on the take

just further entrenches the reality of the Clinton machines long reach and obscene amounts of power. Just another piece of evidence that establishment politics and politicians have to go.

Which Dem will you insult next?

[restorefreedom]

184. by supporting a corporate owned right of center hawk,

he has just been betrayed all of the progressive principles he claims to have stood for all these years. He's an opportunist and clearly in this for what it's going to get for him, probably a VP slot or job within the fantasy clinton which is not going to exist. And yes, it's pretty damn cowardly to jump on the train that you think might win because you're afraid to speak your true feelings against the establishment machine. I don't know what could be more cowardly than that. Sorry if you don't like it but that's how I see it.

[HassleCat]

3. He knew going in

Sanders knew he was bucking the system, relying on waking up the electorate and offering them an alternative. It probably will not work, but it could. He has to test the possibility that Americans are ready for a progressive revival. Such an opportunity arises very rarely, so he had to seize the moment.

[Shadowflash]

89. This is EXACTLY why his fellow politicians won't endorse him.

They're fat and happy with things the way they are and Sanders would make some waves and possibly slow down that gravy train.

[HassleCat]

92. Very true

The progressive movement of the 1890s and early 1900s did exactly that, disrupting some of the cozy connections between the railroads, the banks, and politicians. A Sanders presidency would be pretty rough going, but it might cut into the quid pro quo system that drives politics right now.

[George II]

172. He was in it for fame and fortune.

[Indepatriot]

4. It's the Democratic Party, and the Middle Class,

that's in real trouble...

[Scootaloo]

5. If he were in big trouble, you would be ignoring him like Chafee and Webb and O'Malley

By the way, congratulations on wising up and ditching the "dirt off your shoulder" gif. Did you finally figure out that it's Obama responding to a completely baseless attack by Clinton?

[arcane1]

7. For a guy who "can't win", there is a whole lot of effort devoted to him :)

[frylock]

128. Now they're using Hillary copying Obama brushing dirt..

someone has the gif in their sig. It's so obviously contrived you have to wonder how many hours Hillary spent rehearsing it.

[GusBob]

6. "Feel free to use the comments section to call me a corporatist, warmongering neoliberal shill"

I feel ya' man

[OilemFirchen]

26. We're all corporatist, warmongering neoliberal shills under this bus.

Go ahead. Squeeze my nose.

[mmonk]

8. Not really. The Arc of the Moral Universe Is Long But It Bends Toward Justice

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. But I doubt it will bend that far in the next 12 months. n.t

[mmonk]

24. 12 months is a short time. True, enough to allow more people possibly suffer,

but that is the limits of the curve. There is nothing we can do about it short of power ourselves.

[upaloopa]

23. Here is the problem with that

Dr. King was speaking about justice becoming a reality over time.
Bernie's campaign isn't a moral movement for justice or anything like what Dr King represented.

[mmonk]

27. How so. Are you familiar with Dr. King's Poor Peoples march or his opposition to war?

[upaloopa]

58. I think the Civil Rights movement is a much

bigger thing than Bernie's campaign and should not be co-opted like you are doing.

[mmonk]

112. I think coopting Republican economics at the top, running a nation through corporations

and the subjugating of wages for financialization of the economy is a direct threat to civil rights. The separation of the two is a big ruse, no, really a gd lie. Have a nice one.

[kelliekat44]

9. I don't think he is in big trouble. The Dems may be in big trouble if he continues for long.

While Bernie is right on most of the issues, I get a sinking feeling when I consider that he is not a true Dem. It's like having an outsider take over your neighborhood watch board.

[randome]

33. I'm not convinced he wants to win, despite saying he was "in it to win it".

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[frylock]

131. gooble-gobble

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I liked the part where the writer said ...

"Feel free to call me ..."

Seems like he is familiar with his anti-audience.

[TheProgressive]

22. Let's see what the voters do....

[Cal33]

43. Why not? She has already lost once as the wife of a former president.

[Fred Sanders]

36. Being not ever a member of the Democratic Party you want to lead is a tough handicap.

I am as convinced as ever the real goal of a Sanders candidacy was not to win the nomination, it was to pull Clinton to the Left.....and mission nearly accomplished...which I appreciate immensely.

[restorefreedom]

39. he is more dem than most dems

and without naming names, I'll just leave it at that.

[Cali_Democrat]

45. I'm more of a Dem than you guys will ever be!

Now please endorse me.

That'll go over well.

[restorefreedom]

55. he hasn't asked for any endorsements

unlike someone who likes to brag about all the superdelegates that are supposedly in the bag.

THAT is the differnce in this election.

[Cal33]

152. It's easy to find out about the things Bernie Sanders has said, the bills he has put forward, how

Last edited Wed Oct 28, 2015, 08:40 PM - Edit history (1)

he has voted and what he has stood for over the past 30 years. It will be more difficult to do so
with you.

[Cal33]

46. Exactly! You're on the nose.

[randome]

49. Despite his saying the opposite at the start, I think you're right.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[bkkyosemite]

102. Yes he is sacrificing himself to make Hillary

a better left leaning democrat.

[frylock]

135. Counter trey..

Fake left, run right.

[Capt. Obvious]

38. The final paragraph

This is not to say that Sanders’s campaign is a waste of energy for liberals. Already we have seen it push Clinton to embrace more leftist positions, such as opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the Keystone pipeline. Voters and activists will need to find ways to hold her and her party accountable on those positions if she wins the election. Doing so is the most difficult and frustrating work of politics after an election is over. But the Democratic Party is what it is, and that will not change by next November, no matter how many debates Sanders wins or how much his supporters can get #FeelTheBern trending on Twitter.

[McKim]

120. She's Just Talking, Just Words

Yes, she is talking more left, but it will all be forgotten after the election. I do not trust her.

[tularetom]

52. He isn't in trouble but the US is in trouble if he isn't successful in gaining the nomination

Hillary Clinton is a fake democrat and a corporate shill. She will never win a general election against an actual republican.

And it will result in the election of Trump or some other nutcase.

[shenmue]

91. Bzzzt

Let's show you what lovely parting gifts you've won.

[cascadiance]

123. 20% of the voter base hated NAFTA when Perot got that running against two parties supporting it...

If we have Hillary instead of Bernie as the nominee, COUNT on Trump running an anti-TPP and anti-H-1B campaign and getting a lot of voters that would have gone to the Democrats were the nominee. Even though he's part of the 1%, he'll campaign that he's the only candidate that is not bought by other people's money if Hillary is the nominee. Laugh all you want now, but none of us will be laughing if Trump wins the election that he wouldn't win if Bernie is the nominee.

[stevenleser]

154. Think about what you just wrote. Hillary has come out against the TPP. Why would anyone vote Trump

on that issue if he is anti-TPP? He won't get any of those votes.

[cascadiance]

160. If she were really against the TPP, then why didn't she speak out against TPA...

... when it would have been timely for a potential future president to speak out against it and possibly get some democrats to sustain a filibuster against it? I guess polls didn't tell her then to speak against it when she could have made a difference, after she worked with the Obama administration as SOS to sell it to the other partners in the mix. Kinda like she was for Keystone before she was against it that fits the pattern on so many issues. Interesting timing that she finally said she was "against" TPP right before the debates.

Still waiting for her to clarify her strong statements for H-1B back in 2007 and how she feels about that now. I guess her pollsters are telling her taking a position on that isn't as important now. Bernie isn't afraid to take positions on that as well as other things like H-2B and these free trade bills that steal jobs from Americans and has been pretty consistent and trying to speak up and work against them when it was a timely thing to do.

The problem is that people will BELIEVE Bernie who has ALWAYS and not just recently against TPP when he's matched up against someone like Trump. And Trump has also spoken out against H-1B too, which Hillary is noticeably ABSENT on recently, and in my book is still making her FOR that program working against American workers now since she hasn't yet shown that she's "evolved" on that!

[riversedge]

97. ha ha.

[workinclasszero]

105. Well I'm sure that dangerous fanatic Carson appreciates all the help coming from Bernie's camp

But Hillary will beat his ass like a drum in the GE.

[Politicalboi]

56. LOL!

Wishful thinking.

The supporters of the anointed one are getting worried. They were told yesterday that Hillary's high poll numbers are just gas.

[fredamae]

61. Because Salon Says So? Hahahahahahaha

Because "gerrymandered Polling" say so? lololololololololol
Crap, we haven't even Had a second Debate and Damned if I can find the results from a Single Solitary Primary Election for POTUS 2016!

I smell desperation and Fear.

[Comrade Grumpy]

64. This is most likely accurate. I can't wait for the thrill of Bush v. Clinton redux.

Wake me when it's over.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

84. Trump vs Clinton. Bush is toast.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Do you base your vote on polls and endorsements?

I don't.

[MineralMan]

72. In primary races, yes, I often do.

I make a judgment about who is most likely to win, both in the primaries and in the general election, and support the person I believe has the best chance.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

127. Conduct your own unscientific pole, here's how.

On a large 2 foot by 3 foot foam board write

HONK
FOR
BERNIE

Go to a busy intersection and hold the sign up high so the drivers can read it.

A couple of things will happen, it might get loud with horns honking and others will realize how many supporters he has.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

[workinclasszero]

146. Is that what the Bernie Brain-Trust running his campaign are depending on

come election day?

Facebook polls and HONK FOR BERNIE drive by's???

ROTFLMAO Hillary is lucky to have a fantasy based opponent in this race I tell ya!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

153. When the people hear all those horns blowing

it might wake them up.
Hell, try it for Hillary, after all the real enemy is the Repubs.

[William769]

88. Kick & recommended.

[ornotna]

95. Well there you go

Time to pack it all in and quit then I guess.

[Enthusiast]

98. Completely and enthusiastically unrecommended.

[Bubzer]

99. Salon.com is a tabloid. Hillary/Bernie articles from there are all click-bait... and nothing more.

[bkkyosemite]

107. Sometimes I wake up early in the morning half asleep

and turn on the tv and there is Joe and the Gang.......many times Sherrod has been on there around the table with repubs and agreeing with them saying things that make me take a second look. He is too friendly to that morning show. Has anyone seen what I am talking about. It made me feel a little strange to watch him in his conversations.

[Indepatriot]

109. If it's Trump vs Clinton Trump wins in a walk

[Hiraeth]

136. scary thought, that.

[stevenleser]

157. If its Trump vs Clinton, it's competitive. If it's Trump vs Sanders, Trump gets 40+ states. nt

[cascadiance]

185. Trump vs. Clinton, those against TPP are more apt to vote for Trump...

... since he's taken a stronger stance against both TPP and H-1B guest worker programs that work against Americans who lose their jobs from both of these programs that Trump has spoken out against, and Hillary tepidly recently came out "against" TPP when she's been more solidly working for it's passage earlier and being silent when she might have been able to help stop TPA from being passed by speaking out against it THEN if she really were against it and might have tangibly been able to stop it then. She's not even commented on H-1B since 2007 when she STRONGLY supported that program which screws American workers.

Bernie running would have a stronger position on these issues than Trump, and would WIN those likely 20% voters (the amount that went for Perot on the NAFTA issue that had Clinton win by only a plurality in that election rather than a majority). That is why, along with both of these candidates also not taking PAC money from outside sources that arguably has them doing what they want, people will be more apt to support Bernie in a general election against Trump than Hillary against Trump. And recent polling shows this to be the case too.

[stevenleser]

192. Wrong on all counts and here is why.

#1 - No one will believe that oligarch Trump will be more interested in workers than Hillary. He has never shown an interest in workers before and has been very anti-union and despite his current crusade has hired undocumented workers in his buildings in order to save money.

#2 - Bernie hasn't been targeted by Republicans yet at all. If it comes to where they need to deal with him, they have plenty of material to use to drive down his numbers. They have already used everything they can use against HIllary and she is still polling about even with them. She is a much better debater than any of them. Any one on one contest between her and any of the Repubs running will look very bad for them.

All the rest of the stuff you wrote is from your own perspective. You havent tried to account for how other people will see things. They will not see things the way you predict they will. If they did, 100% of the country would vote for Sanders.

[cascadiance]

193. Sorry but what about her SUPPORT for H-1B quota EXPANSION is support for American Workers?

She's strongly supported that in the past and has NOT changed her view on that or even spoken publicly on that recently!!!

In my book as someone who's been SCREWED by that program over the years, I call foul and strike out!!!

I'm not saying that Trump works for workers! I'd never vote for him. But he HAS recently spoken out against H-1B visa program expansion, which Hillary has not. He WINS that issue. Explains how he doesn't. If people don't believe either of them (if Hillary were at any point to speak out to "evolve" her stance in to something that can be said to support American workers), it will be those xenophobic righties that will more energetically vote for him than any Democrat will on this topic. Bernie's consistent working against such guest worker INDENTURED SERVANT labor programs is something that his supporters and Democrats will believe worth working for to elect a candidate protecting American workers.

Hillary at this point was still way ahead of Obama too then based on name recognition and pre-debate by her big money cronies then too. I know there are many efforts from people like you and others trying to push that same message that FAILED last time, but keep trying. In the end, people will wake up and vote for someone that works for THEM and not for the oligarchs!

Bernie has been targeted by the corporate media, etc. as a candidate to AVOID talking about and letting any kind of messages get out on (like when they shut down all of those online polls right after the debate that didn't work in Hillary's favor). Attacking him would be them admitting that he's got the power without money to take them on, so the effort now up until primary time is to try and minimize exposure to him as much as they are able, but with social media, etc. that really isn't working, just like government efforts in the middle east couldn't shut down the Arab Spring then that rose up with social media, etc. too.

If she is so much a better debater than Bernie Sanders, and can field unscripted questions randomly from an undefined audience like Bernie has weekly for almost the last decade on Thom Hartmann's show's national audience, then why doesn't he take up Hartmann's invitation and do the same sort of townhall Q/A that Bernie does and show that she can speak from her heart and doesn't need to hind behind others to shield random questions being directed towards her.

[stevenleser]

194. And you care about that but most voters don't. You just proved my point.

99.99% of voters will go the polls not knowing anything about what H-1B is or who said what about it.

Again, you are projecting your views on voters.

H-1B. That is hilarious that you think it will have any impact on this election.

[cascadiance]

195. What is your point. That voters will believe BULLSHIT, because they aren't informed about things...

... like H-1B?

You may have a point there, and that reinforces many of our points as Bernie supporters that the media is bought and paid for by those that don't want us to know about how jobs are stolen from us by programs like H-1B (and TPP), but as people do discover it, and even candidates like Trump bring it up, then people will learn about it, and realize that there's one more reason to support more populist candidates.

And...

Are you trying to somehow defend that H-1B really helps American workers? That is an f'ing joke. Try to defend that notion please. If you don't disagree, then how am I then wrong that Hillary isn't defending American workers, not only with her stances supporting this program, but also her nebulous support or later non-support of TPP, when it started to become more likely to be a debate topic, which is like so many other "free trade" bills that has cost us tons of jobs here!

[SoapBox]

113. Oh...the Brown thing...

Uh huh...he has now proven himself as Entrenched Establishment.

Not really such a surprise since his wife is a big Hill drum beater.

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched...ya'all are going to be in for one big fat surprise.

[McKim]

115. HAVE THE VOTES BEEN COUNTED?

Gee, I thought we were having a primary election. Has the vote taken place? I guess Brown needs DNC money next time he runs.
But this will not change my vote. I don't vote for people who vote for the Iraq War.

[turbinetree]

116. As I was reading the threads to this post I was struck by ...............................

one simple fact, Sanders doesn't have a PAC, all of the individuals supporting Clinton have or has a PAC do they or do they not?

So the question that needs to be asked again, who owns who, it's a real simple question with a real simple answer!

I know what my candidate has for that answer.

"And winning the invisible primary is still a hugely important step for a Democrat, one that the Vermont senator has either neglected or just flat-out lost."


Honk----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[bkkyosemite]

138. Thank you for your comment some are jumping ship here on DU

[turbinetree]

189. Thank you ..............I will not jump ship from my Principles.....................................

and this election is about Principles it always has been, and whoever the nominee is they will need in my opinion the 34% of the voters in the Sanders camp who are not some PAC, that is 34 voters out of 100.

MY core convictions support Sanders and what he has "done" in the way of standing from the roof top on what PAC's and the corporate PAC's (the corrupt U.S. Supreme Court) have been doing to this country before and ever since Watergate and there relentless desire to corrupt the vote process to exchange it with corporate money-----------------in my opinion--------------- bribery.

This country began, is going through, a two plus year election cycle again, Canada had 78 days that's how much the taxpayers paid for the election (increased from 60 days I think, if I am wrong, someone from Canada please let me know, but I think there elections are publicly financed), that tells me the corporate PAC's in this country and around the world have corrupted the issues for greed for two plus years with commercials and misinformation.

Its almost like walking in the woods, and you see the trees but you don't see the forest.

And for next 12 months the public is going to get what, the trees or the forest mentality from the PAC's------------no issues, just sound bites and lobbyists with more sound bites.

There are no debates in this country.
When I was in debate class it was our team against the other team and it was on the issue, that is a debate.
It didn't take two years with commercials and side remarks, you either knew the subject matter or you didn't, and the folks in the audience where told what the issue was and the information on the subject, by a paper ballot determined who won, that's a democracy.


I apologize for my rant





Honk-----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[captainarizona]

117. I like bernie and will vote for him ;but!

Bernie will get my primary vote even though he will not get the nomination. In the unlikely event she is indicted biden or kerry will step in. In the general election I will hold my nose and vote for clinton as a republican must never be elected president.

[cascadiance]

118. These endorsements are more of a sign that we are ALL losing because of Citizen's United BULLSHIT...

... that puts pressure on all of our elected officials to do the way that big money wants you to do or be pushed out. Do what we say and get rewarded, and NOT what the people want when it conflicts with our (the fraction of 1%'s) interests!

They are a reminder of the large amount of work we ALL have at the grass roots level to fix this problem, that if we don't, and wait too long, something like a disastrous French Revolution outcome awaits us, whether we want that happening or not. Push on folks, as even if the media wants to try and "say its over", nothing's over until it's over!

[Doctor_J]

124. actually it's America and Americans that are in trouble

There is a candidate for president who has a fighting chance to wrestle the country away from the banksters and insurance executives and Pentagon. Unfortunately too many would prefer a conservative female with no principles whatsoever, and with a long history of support for criminals, wall street, bad trade deals, and insurance and drug companies. How such an obviously wrongheaded decision can be made is a mystery to me.

[blackspade]

126. More opinion masscaradeing as fact

Last edited Wed Oct 28, 2015, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders is in big trouble: That's like your opinion, man...

And this 'invisible primary' crap underscores how broken the primary and general election truly is.
If Brown is endorsing Clinton in exchange for her endorsment in 2018, it speaks to the corrupt reality of our party machinery.

[stevenleser]

156. It's either an opinion, or its part of the broken primary and election. Not both. nt

[blackspade]

164. Two different things I was commenting on.

I clarified what I was saying, thanks for calling the confusion to my attention.

[angrychair]

145. No whining

We get the country we vote for. If our progressive moderate-centerist brothers and sisters here on DU feel that HRC is the best choice and she is elected, so be it.

I mean Hillary said that DOMA and DADT were to help the LGBT community from something worse so it most be true because Hillary is an honorable women.

Even though Hillary has 12 SuperPACs she said she is against Citizens United so she must be against it because Hillary is an honorable women.

Though she calls herself a progressive at one event and a moderate centerist at another event in a different state, she said in the debate she is a progressive so it must be true because Hillary is an honorable women.

Though she voted for the war in Iraq and never met a defense bill increase she didn't like she said she isn't a hawk so it must be true because Hillary is an honorable women.

(feel free to add here)so it must be true because Hillary is an honorable women.

[peacebird]

151. If anyone dares use the tem "shill" in a post about Hillary they are alerted on. But you know that.

[stevenleser]

155. It's the actual title of the article and part of the URL for the article. nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

162. Excellent article. It bothers me to see Brown declared a traitor

And tossed under the bus. The man is a reliable liberal voice and vote.

[Vattel]

163. I think Brown's endorsement may reflect a desire to be VP.

Given how progressive Brown is, I wouldn't mind seeing him as VP.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

173. He's actually not in trouble at all

[Cha]

177. Thank you for this, Cali.

[jfern]

181. 34 is also the percent Bernie has in the latest Reuter tracking poll, a record high