The Answer to 'Should We Raise Retirement Age' for any Democrat is simple: NO! NO! and NO Again!

[sabrina 1]

Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

But that is NOT what Hillary Clinton said is it?

Editing to add Hillary's direct quote:

Say It Ain't So Hillary Clinton You're Open to the Idea of Raising the Retirement Age

Thirdly, we do have to consider ways to make sure that the funding of Social Security does maintain the system. I think we have a number of options; this would be something that I would look at, I would not favor raising the retirement age. And I don’t favor it because it might be fine for somebody like me, but the vast majority of working people who have worked hard and have had a difficult, maybe last couple of decades trying to continue to work, it would be very challenging for them. If there were a way to do it that would not penalize or punish laborers and factory workers and long-distance truck drivers and people who really are ready for retirement at a much earlier age, I would consider it. But I have yet to find any recommendation that I would think would be suitable.

No Democrat should ever make a statement like that regarding raising the Retirement Age. There is only one answer to that question for any Democrat.

[Xipe Totec]

1. I'm in favor of raising retirement age for any Republican. nt

[sabrina 1]

2. I'm not. Workers are workers regardless of their politics. The retirement age should not be

raised for anyone.

[Flying Phoenix]

27. Agreed.

125 years old sounds about right for Republican retirement age?

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. NO! NO! NO! it's not what she said.

Here's the pertinent quote:

If there were a way to do it that would not penalize or punish laborers and factory workers and long-distance truck drivers and people who really are ready for retirement at a much earlier age, I would consider it.

[sabrina 1]

5. Why is she using words like 'penalize' and 'punish' in a discussion about something that has zero

to do with law enforcement? Authoritarian language bothers me, maybe it's just me!

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Well,

she is an Authoritarian and approves Authoritarianism.

IWR
PRISONS FOR PROFITS
WAR, WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR!
She supports Corporations owning the MSM to control the message.
She supports Corporations own Congress to control our laws.
She supports Wall St. Controls our financial system
She voted for the bankruptcy bill
She voted for the Patriot Act - which has turned this country into a police state.

It is a bizarre way to approach the subject of Social Security. Like the government is doing them a favor by giving them THEIR own money back -

[sabrina 1]

7. All I know is it turned my stomach a little to see those words applied to a discussion about

an issue that should have zero to do with 'punishment' or 'penalizing' workers. Though maybe it was a Freudian slip. In her own mind she knows that to take something away from workers that they have EARNED WOULD BE 'penalizing and punishing them'.

She's certainly right if that is what she meant. What does that say about her, that she KNOWS it is wrong, but will consider it anyhow, because workers are really not her concern.

It sure contradicts the pretense we hear from the Third Way that it's about 'fixing' something, that btw, needs very little fixing.

Sickening is all I can say and if the people do not stand up in this election and start fighting for themselves, then all I can say is they deserve whatever happens.

Bernie is giving them a chance, they can take it or leave it.

[FlatBaroque]

4. We should be expanding Social Security at every opportunity

instead of cutting it. Raise the contribution cap. That's the equitable and progressive way to solve even the fictional problems that politicians create, with which they bludgeon us.

[Sheepshank]

8. false OP....shamefully false

why not post a link?

wel, of course we know why...it's a blatant falsehood

[sabrina 1]

9. No, it is not false. But just for you I will post her entire statement. Leaving doors open to

raising the retirement age for ANY WORKER should not even be a consideration for a Democrat, especially one asking us for our votes.

[KittyWampus]

15. No you didn't. You left out the third paragraph where she wants to raise THE CAP.

sickening the lies some DU'ers will resort to.

[Armstead]

30. What's the Cap got to do with the retirenent age?

Two different aspects of the same issue.

So she might raise the Cap and the retirement age? Or will she leave the cap alone and keep retirement age as is? or something different.

She is leaving all possibilities open --therefore taking no stand, and not being honest with voters.

[sabrina 1]

10. Link posted in the OP! n/t

[Sheepshank]

12. You also touted the same meme about Obama too...and yet it never happened

the whole quote is not what you are implying here, and it's blatantly twisted and false. But you have an agenda, so everyone understands why you are doing this.

[sabrina 1]

13. Let me repeat for you what she said and it was not what any Democrat should have said:

Thirdly, we do have to consider ways to make sure that the funding of Social Security does maintain the system. I think we have a number of options; this would be something that I would look at, I would not favor raising the retirement age. And I don’t favor it because it might be fine for somebody like me, but the vast majority of working people who have worked hard and have had a difficult, maybe last couple of decades trying to continue to work, it would be very challenging for them. If there were a way to do it that would not penalize or punish laborers and factory workers and long-distance truck drivers and people who really are ready for retirement at a much earlier age, I would consider it. But I have yet to find any recommendation that I would think would be suitable.

She opened the door, she WOULD CONSIDER IT! Do you agree with that? I am a Democrat and I am appalled that any Democrat would open that door that for decades Democrats have fought to keep from opening even a crack for the Right Wing and Third Way anti-Social Programs that are among the very best the our party has ever put in place, AND among the most popular across the political spectrum for DECADES.

[sabrina 1]

16. Obama did not put SS on the 'deficit table'?? AFTER slamming the very idea that SS EVER HAD

ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFICIT in the campaign?

What exactly are you objecting to?? People telling the TRUTH here?

I will continue to tell the truth no matter how much you are anyone else doesn't want to hear it.

Obama betrayed those who supported him when he said that SS was a factor in the Deficit. No, it was NOT!

Sick to death of seeing this kind of thing. THE TRUTH IS TRUTH and denying it and then attacking those who tell it ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE IT.

You are continuing to tout the meme/falsehood that Obama did NOT do what he said he would not do, cave to the Republican lie that SS was responsible for the DEFICIT.

Thanks for reminding me. I will be informing those I am hoping to sign up for Bernie this weekend of THAT particular betrayal and of how BErnie Sanders was outspoken about that lie re SS and the Deficit.

[Sheepshank]

21. I don't think even Joan of Arc

claimed so much persecution....and touted so much martyrdome.

[sabrina 1]

22. You're right, you are constantly claiming to have been wronged and persecuted by people telling the

truth. The truth harms no one other than those for whom it is inconvenient. So claiming to be 'martyred' (a Third Way Think Tank Word for Progressives btw) by the truth makes no sense at all.

[Sheepshank]

25. show me where.....I've done any such thing? n/t

[Armstead]

31. You are responding to facts with cheap jabs

If you disagree with Sabrina, why not state WHY you disagree with her on some basis other than empty bon mots?

[sabrina 1]

34. Thank you. I was asked for a link and provided it, and the response was the old Third Way word for

Progressives, 'you're a martyr' or some such nonsense. Frankly I take very little here seriously anymore, trollish behavior is the norm so I don't see much point in contributing anything of value, as we once used to do. I am here now solely to defend Sanders from the Clinton Campaign smears and attacks.

I go elsewhere for substantive discussions on issues.

[Fumesucker]

23. Sabrina1 isn't on another website pointing fingers at and insulting other DUers

Unlike some other posters around here.

[Sheepshank]

24. what do you care how many sites DU'ers visit

that argument is inane...why not follow up with members of the Bernie group and their need for a private Fb site?

double standards do not become you.

[sabrina 1]

35. The poster didnt say they CAREd, they stated a fact. I say what I have to say to DUers right here on

DU. I do not go to other sites to slam this site and its members. Facts are facts, period. Doesn't mean people CARE it means they have OBSERVED.

[Sheepshank]

41. Not only are there plenty of other sites DUers go to to point fingers

...but also to be able to offer support for their canidadte without the inevitable swarming, pouting, name calling, alerting and diversionary tactics. It's a well know FACT here on DU, the Bernie Supporters have swarmed, driven off and put many Clinton supporters on time out and then by default load up the alerts and the Jury, just so that can talk smack with impunity. So I won't be apologizing for finding a spot where I can speak my mind withut fear of being put on time out, while so much here gets not only a pass but recommended and supported.

[sabrina 1]

42. Really? Can you link me to some sites where I don't have to watch he lies about MY candidate

on a daily basis? I post HERE period and what I see here re a good man, even if I didn't support him for president, is simply disgusting.

So where are these sites where I can promote my candidate with seeing all the lies and deceptions without being SWARMED by Hillary supporters?

[Sheepshank]

44. Did you get excluded from the secret Bernie FB group

...oh dear, sorry I brought it up. I hope you don't feel badly about that.

[ieoeja]

11. It would help if they would start talking about the 800 lbs gorilla in the room.

While Republicans have a point about people living longer, everybody on both sides is ignoring the fact that we need less work.

A Caterpillar plant in Indiana used to employ over 2 thousand people. Now it has a little over 2 dozen people. But it manufactures more product than it did when it employed those thousands.

It took several people working daylight to sundown for 3 to 4 weeks planting then harvesting crops on our family farm when I was a kid. One guy does it in a single day now.

Everybody keeps saying, "we need jobs". That is actually the exact opposite of reality. We do not need jobs. Okay, we're ignoring infrastructure at our peril. But other than that, the work is getting done.

The only reason we "need" jobs is because we have decided that people must work at least X hours to get the money they need to buy what they need, and want. Everything they need, and want, is ready for them. We just need to find a fair way in which everyone can meet their needs and some of their wants.

THAT is the real issue. And nobody even talks about it.

[reformist2]

47. BINGO! The real issue of our time is how to share the wealth when we don't need everyone to work.

Instead of talking about raising the retirement age, we should be encouraging older workers to retire EARLIER. The way to do that is to provide them with a decent standard of living outside of the working paradigm. To do that will require money. Money from rich people. Yes, this means wealth redistribution. Because it's the only fair thing to do, short of revamping the capitalist system.

[Agony]

52. That would be so… civilized.

this is fundamental change that we need

"We just need to find a fair way in which everyone can meet their needs and some of their wants. "

Neo-Liberals/Conservatives will never go here because someone _might_ get something they did not "earn"

[ms liberty]

54. This. n/t

[KittyWampus]

14. That is what she said. She does "NOT". And she also said she favors raising the CAP.

When you have to invent crap against a candidate it doesn't say much for whomever it is you are supporting.

I can't stand Hillary but it's ridiculous the contortions Sanders supporters go to.

[sabrina 1]

19. Stop! A Democrat, Hillary Clinton just said that if she could be presented with a way to

raise the Retirement Age without including certain kinds of workers, she WILL CONSIDER IT. THat is NOT something ANY Democrat should ever say, is it?

Wait, unless YOU agree with it?

[pa28]

17. "No" should be an easy answer for any Democrat on the question of cutting Social Security.

However it was very difficult for Hillary Clinton.

She flip flopped on one of the most important issues a Democrat can address in a single response! First she was against raising the retirement age . . . then she said she'd consider it.

[sabrina 1]

20. Yes, too many Thinks Tanks pulling her this way and that way, should she swing to the left, or the

right during the campaign, Third Way says 'swing to the RIGHT' someone else, Bernie, causes her and her advisers to recognize, she better swing to where the country is, the Left.

Your head spins trying to keep up with where she stands on anything.

We know one thing for sure. IF elected, she will be where she always was, as her history on policies shows. And that is why I cannot support her.

[GoneFishin]

32. "No" does not work for her because no one in her circle needs their piddly SS income. And some

of them stand to make filthy stinkingly huge piles of money in management fees if they can get their hands on workers' social security withholdings. But to get to that point they first need to contrive of some bullshit excuse to begin tinkering with and manipulating the way in which social security is handled.

[CharlotteVale]

18. "I have yet to find any recommendation" - operative word being YET.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. BINGO! Where there's a will, there's a way and tbe will is certainly there with the THIRD WAY.

The Clinton administration found a way to "Reform" welfare, knowing full well millions of women and children would end up living in poverty. That didn't seem to bother them at all.

When the time comes, she'll have her "recommendations" on her desk. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her to not raise retirement age.

Bernie just has to win this election. It's imperative. They have bad things planned.

[sabrina 1]

36. Not to worry, the Corporate Third Way Think Tank is working on it right now.

[GoneFishin]

28. Can't she just answer a G.D. question without weasel words? I don't see why any working stiff

would vote for her.

[Hoyt]

29. Sounds like a NO, after actually thinking about it. Even better than an automatic no, without

a bit of thought. We want a leader who thinks about things - like should we cut military spending - without automatically saying no.

[Armstead]

33. If she is as smart and prepared as is claimed, she should know where she stands

This is not some crisis that suddenly arose.

If she ready to take over from Day One, as is so often cllaimned as her greatest strength, why the hell hasn't she formed an opinion on a core Democratic issue? How much more "study" and "consideration of options" blah,blah, blah does she need?

How about a simple statement like "No this is a sacred trust, and I will not raise it. " or "Yes I believe we may have to raise it to keep SS solvent."

SOMETHING so people will know where the helll she is coming from.

[Hoyt]

38. No, she should appear reflective. They can cut my Social Security $1200 a year, IF

they pick up my Medicare Part B premiums. I want someone who thinks about better ways.

Besides, she made it pretty clear she wasn't for cutting Social Security.

[TheKentuckian]

45. Negative...Our talk should be focused on expanding piddly ass benefits not shifting from Peter

to Paul as a "clever" way to feign "getting stuff done" and setting up a backdoor for actual cuts when some future fuckwit decides we need to again raise premiums.

The answer is FUCK NO!!!!

[Hoyt]

46. Wave your arms and yell about increasing benefits, it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[TheKentuckian]

48. A lot sooner than winking and nodding cuts and by doing the right thing along the way too.

[sabrina 1]

37. We want DEMOCRATS who support Democratic platforms, who do not leave open doors to the

'take as much as possible from the little people' Right Winger/Corporate entities to drive their trucks through, which they have already.

There is no other word when asked that question a Democrat should use other than, 'NO'!

[Hoyt]

39. She pretty much closed the door if you ask me.

[sabrina 1]

40. No, she did NOT no matter how many times you say it. She stated clearly that if someone can give

her a way to raise the Retirement Age except for some workers, she will consider it.

THIS is going to haunt her for the rest of the campaign.

If there is one thing that unites Americans it is SS.

She said what she said, period.

When you open a door, you simply can't claim to have 'shut it'. Can you?

[Hoyt]

43. The vast majority of Democrats can read and know what she said. Probably approve of it too.

I think some true Independents will appreciate what she said.

[Armstead]

50. She said "Probably not, maybe,maybe not, perhaps but perhaps not"

Whatever the merits or not, people deserve more than disingenuous deflection


It is possible to be reflective and still give a straight, honest answer. She doe not do that. She's a habitual deflector

[postatomic]

49. It's already been raised

Since I'm a card carrying member of the Silver Sneakers club. I talk to others that are my contemporaries. Most have made the decision to retire much later than they originally had planned. They can't afford to retire.

[Armstead]

51. Getting close, and its pretty damn confusing

[riversedge]

53. And Hillary agrees

[Divernan]

55. How about pharmacists, Hill? Do you consider them "laborers"?

Last edited Sat Oct 31, 2015, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Hillary could not be MORE clueless about what holding down a full-time job without a chauffeur, bodyguard, maid, cook/dietician, personal assistant, personal shopper, on-call physician, private jet, elite hair salons which close down to other customers to give her total privacy for her $600 cut & dye jobs, etc. is like for someone at age 62 through 70, let alone older. Can you say pampered, boys and girls?

She had a nanny, chauffeur, chef, bodyguard, etc., when she was a governor's wife, and ever since then has had go-fers galore. How many decades has it been since she's driven herself anywhere?

Just one example. Yesterday, I went to my local Rite-Aid (drugstore chain) for a flu shot. The place was a madhouse. People were milling around, having waited an hour or more to get their walk-in prescriptions filled. Having just come from their doctors' offices, many of them were sick. The 6 seats in the "waiting area" were filled so all the rest had to stand for the entire time. Then there were the 4 of us who signed up for flu shots. "No appointments necessary!" (or available). One of my co-waiters was an elderly woman who could barely navigate with her walker, her hands twisted with arthritis.

There were one pharmacist and 2 pharmacist techs working their butts off. The pharmacist
techs were so rushed and stressed out, they were calling out people's names & medications - that violates HIPPA confidentiality rules, of course. But who gave a shit, as long as they could get their meds and get the hell out of there. We flu shot waitees, after an hour were called up (by name) and lined up for our shots. I empathized with the pharmacist for her work load and asked her if other employees had called in sick. She said, no, that she was the only one scheduled for a FOURTEEN HOUR SHIFT! On her feet, dashing back and forth, the whole time.

Gee, I wonder if that pharmacist (appeared to be in her 40's) is "ready for Hillary" to tell her she should be able to work at that pace until she's 70 years old. Well, she MUST be, because, I mean, this pharmacist is a WOMAN(!) and it's just absolutely critical to the continuation of civilization that we elect a woman president. (And I'm a woman too - a retired govt. lawyer/professor who taught women's studies - so don't anyone throw any sexist charges at me!)

And what about all those people working as checkout clerks/stock people at places like Wal-Mart? The woman checkout clerk at my neighborhood grocery store is 60+ and has back problems. She has to stand for 8 hours a day at her job. She has to commute to and from work on a public transit system requiring 2 transfers. In all kinds of weather. Just what the doctor ordered for people age 65-70? Let's see Hill put in a week at Walmart - not on the Board of Directors, but at the checkout line, or retrieving shopping carts from the parking lot. When's Hill ever had to deal with a strictly timed bathroom break or punch a timeclock?
Bathroom breaks? You got prostate problems, buddy? That's what Depends are for!

Even employees/workers who sit in front of a computer in a cubicle have to commute to and from work, which can add hours to their 8 hour day. They have problems with failing eyesight and hearing (glasses & hearing aids not covered by Medicare). And many a job requires mandatory overtime. Non-partner lawyers are expected to put in 6 day weeks, 10 hours a day (plus the aforementioned commuting).

And of course the biggest, fattest elephant in the room, is that employers will always go for the younger, physically healthier and more energetic, lower paid employees, and NOT older employees likely to take family leave to care for elderly parents or spouses. Age discrimination is not a figment of the imagination.

Right now we have government programs which are supposed to provide support for disability
(Social Security Disability), workmen's compensation, VA medical care, etc. It takes 6 months to years to get approval/admitted to those programs. Hey, Hill, you can propose a government screening program for people applying to collect on their Social Security - and then, a few years in, the corporate controlled Congress could vote to privatize it! It's a 2-fer. Hopefully, a lot of people in their late 60's will die before ever collecting one cent from social security - I think it's called working themselves to death! PLUS, by privatizing, yet more money to flow upward. Talk about dystopia!