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pinebox

(5,761 posts)
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:17 PM Nov 2015

Bernie Sanders Starts to Name Names to Set Himself Apart From Hillary Clinton

Well here we go! I think many of us saw this coming. Go get her Bernie!

Bernie Sanders Starts to Name Names to Set Himself Apart From Hillary Clinton
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-starts-names-set-hillary-clinton/story?id=34911867

“Let me tell you a word about Social Security. I understand Secretary Clinton was here the other day. I think she and I have a strong disagreement on this,” he began, going on to talk about his proposal for maintaining and expanding Social Security by “scrapping the cap” on taxable income. By comparison, Clinton has only said she would consider such an idea.

For months, unless specifically asked about his primary opponent, Sanders did not mention Clinton while campaigning. Her name only came up in passing during Sanders’ stump speech. “This campaign is not about Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton. ... This campaign is about you,” he often said.

That all changed with a pivotal night for Sanders at Iowa Democratic Party’s famed Jefferson Jackson Dinner last week. At the event, Sanders delivered his most cutting critique of Clinton to date, albeit without naming her name. Rather, he ticked through a series of past, key political moments when the two of them differed -- from the Iraq War to the signing of the Defense of Marriage Act -- in order to argue that he was the true progressive. In the days immediately following the dinner, he told reporters it was important to show voters the differences between himself and Clinton.

According to Sanders’s senior staff, they had begun a second phase of their campaign: the “persuasion” phase. Instead of simply rallying his core supporters and boosting his name recognition, Sanders would actively seek to win over undecided Democratic and independent voters, by precisely articulating a contrast with Hillary Clinton.

More at http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-starts-names-set-hillary-clinton/story?id=34911867
136 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders Starts to Name Names to Set Himself Apart From Hillary Clinton (Original Post) pinebox Nov 2015 OP
Did the second phase begin with determining she would be a good VP? Renew Deal Nov 2015 #1
VP? Poeradley Nov 2015 #12
She belongs wherever she damn well pleases. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #19
Nope, she belongs where the voters put her. Jester Messiah Nov 2015 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog Nov 2015 #33
Amen Brother! Phlem Nov 2015 #67
You're going with that? bvf Nov 2015 #38
When politics becomes American Idol. L0oniX Nov 2015 #45
Unbelievable, isn't it? bvf Nov 2015 #54
I always thought it was more like a A Simple Game Nov 2015 #58
Yeah. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #103
There is an appropriate accessory for them Beast Boy Nov 2015 #60
Bernie???? sheshe2 Nov 2015 #80
Sounded more to me like entitlement/arrogance, but pihtayto, pihtahto. merrily Nov 2015 #112
There's no shortage of terms to describe bvf Nov 2015 #128
"damn" is not too far way. I guess to some people she is a g0d. L0oniX Nov 2015 #44
I can't take your Hillary 840high Nov 2015 #47
Hopefully she damn well pleases to take her humanitarian work to Libya or Iraq Scootaloo Nov 2015 #55
After she helped destroy them. n/t ozone_man Nov 2015 #65
She belongs wherever powerful people damn well please. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #102
Where ever the oligarcy wants her. L0oniX Nov 2015 #107
Actually, she doesn't. Neither do you. Neither do I. No one belongs where they are not welcome. merrily Nov 2015 #111
LOL-their products are the closet she comes to poor people. jalan48 Nov 2015 #20
Well, done sir or madam! Well done! GoneOffShore Nov 2015 #24
Here ya go... robbob Nov 2015 #86
^^^ L0oniX Nov 2015 #108
Actually, Bernie said that the campaign staffer who said that spoke "inappropriately." 1monster Nov 2015 #25
The staffer was joking, but I can see why Bernie said that. merrily Nov 2015 #113
Some Suspect That Was Charitable Comment - Need To Let HRC Down Easy cantbeserious Nov 2015 #34
You know that was joking, right? merrily Nov 2015 #110
Good. 99Forever Nov 2015 #2
Surely you mean "herstory." Jester Messiah Nov 2015 #27
I said precisely what I meant. 99Forever Nov 2015 #64
Kick! Phlem Nov 2015 #69
Funny that some people are mentioning records and differences in approaches marym625 Nov 2015 #3
Right? Presumably if you support Clinton for the nomination femmedem Nov 2015 #5
Exactly! marym625 Nov 2015 #7
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #13
What policies? hifiguy Nov 2015 #22
Right? That was my take as well. raouldukelives Nov 2015 #88
Exactly! marym625 Nov 2015 #89
What a crappy hide for hifiguy. (Sorry raouldukelives, can't reply to a hidden post.) merrily Nov 2015 #116
I think that HRC's problem come from where she gets her focus groups. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #90
Yeah, I'm sure that is part of her problem. marym625 Nov 2015 #94
Remember that pic of her "listening" to ordinary people in a diner? Turned out to be her staffers. merrily Nov 2015 #127
really? marym625 Nov 2015 #132
Yes. I think Old Crow sussed that out. merrily Nov 2015 #133
Unfuckingbelievable marym625 Nov 2015 #135
He should mention every position she's changed lately and say he's glad that merrily Nov 2015 #114
I have before marym625 Nov 2015 #129
ok. n/t zappaman Nov 2015 #4
alright. n/t retrowire Nov 2015 #9
( ._.) Marty McGraw Nov 2015 #17
Make it last all night? concreteblue Nov 2015 #46
She wuz ♫ Marty McGraw Nov 2015 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Beast Boy Nov 2015 #62
lol. nt merrily Nov 2015 #115
It's not about Hillary. It's about policy. Which policy is better? Making the wealthiest pay into SS grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #6
Hey, Grannie has already had too much to eat over the years! kristopher Nov 2015 #11
well if you add up Poeradley Nov 2015 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author Snotcicles Nov 2015 #43
I believe the order that bernie has gone with is... retrowire Nov 2015 #8
But social security is hopefully going to be included in that jwirr Nov 2015 #28
Is "she and I have a strong disagreement on this,” a sexst attack? Armstead Nov 2015 #10
The correct terms Poeradley Nov 2015 #15
Even the most minimal disagreement with HRH hifiguy Nov 2015 #23
I agree the cap should be scrapped WI_DEM Nov 2015 #16
Scrap The Cap! Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #50
The cap is cray. merrily Nov 2015 #117
He started changing his approach at the murielm99 Nov 2015 #18
I wouldn't stay to listen to Hillary parrot Bernie either. Kalidurga Nov 2015 #37
It is courteous to stay for the entire evening. murielm99 Nov 2015 #41
wait wait wait... grasswire Nov 2015 #48
And most of them came by bus Kalidurga Nov 2015 #57
No one said any such thing. murielm99 Nov 2015 #68
I raised classism because your post above reeks of it, IMO. grasswire Nov 2015 #70
Who cares? murielm99 Nov 2015 #71
because classism is offensive to true, traditional Democrats. grasswire Nov 2015 #72
All of a sudden Bernie is a blue collar dude? murielm99 Nov 2015 #76
He's fighting for working people. Are you kidding??? cui bono Nov 2015 #78
Nope. murielm99 Nov 2015 #79
So now who's rude? cui bono Nov 2015 #81
I am not smearing. murielm99 Nov 2015 #82
You were not defending your candidate. You were attempting to belittle Sanders. cui bono Nov 2015 #105
No, that Bernie is not now a Democrat is not the truth at all. merrily Nov 2015 #119
Bernie is an Independent from a small state with a sparse population. AlbertCat Nov 2015 #96
Isn't it amazing how much energy is put into something insignificant? cui bono Nov 2015 #106
And your opinion of a U.S. States Senator who wrote more legislation that passed than your candidate merrily Nov 2015 #122
What do you mean all of a sudden? He grew up poor. He's never been a millionaire. merrily Nov 2015 #118
I think you've got something there. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #84
you're seeing it too? grasswire Nov 2015 #92
Bucking tradition, Hillary didn't march with supporters to the JJ Dinner.. frylock Nov 2015 #51
Ooh.... interesting... cui bono Nov 2015 #74
NOT GOOD ENOUGH, HILLARY! merrily Nov 2015 #120
Hahaha... cui bono Nov 2015 #73
I think this rudeness, which is becoming murielm99 Nov 2015 #75
Oh come on. I take it you are a Hillary supporter... cui bono Nov 2015 #77
Those who attend Bernie events seem educated, and very polite. bvar22 Nov 2015 #87
very widely discussed, AlbertCat Nov 2015 #97
"If he cannot get his supporters to behave" ???? Your desperation to post negative things about merrily Nov 2015 #123
It is courteous to stay for the entire evening. AlbertCat Nov 2015 #95
They already saw the main event. Fuddnik Nov 2015 #40
Or, it was a political statement. Or, they had a train to catch. So the fuck what? merrily Nov 2015 #124
It was reported after the fact that their buses were leaving with or without them JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #52
Shhhhhhhh! AlbertCat Nov 2015 #98
Bernie!! He doesn't give 'em hell... just tells the TRUTH and they think it's hell! AzDar Nov 2015 #21
Eliminating the cap on income will never happen postatomic Nov 2015 #29
have you ever sat at a negotiating table? druidity33 Nov 2015 #35
I've sat at negotiating tables postatomic Nov 2015 #56
I couldn't disagree more. nt. druidity33 Nov 2015 #61
That's totally cool postatomic Nov 2015 #63
Please tell us what complex deals you have negotiated. nt stevenleser Nov 2015 #66
No. nt. druidity33 Nov 2015 #85
That's what I thought. nt stevenleser Nov 2015 #91
What a show of disrespect to say, "no." I may alert. bvf Nov 2015 #136
The things i can tell you druidity33 Nov 2015 #104
If you are truly interested in the details of Bernie's plan, they are available. NorthCarolina Nov 2015 #42
I am interested and I went to his site to read it postatomic Nov 2015 #59
why would changing the tax code matter? marym625 Nov 2015 #134
Not that far fetched. She voted for every war and every "surge" for which she was eligible to vote. merrily Nov 2015 #125
Okay postatomic Nov 2015 #130
I knew you intended your Gulf of Tonkin remark as sarcasm. However, without your intending to, you merrily Nov 2015 #131
Hillary is not a progressive, and when people compare their records in Congress, that becomes . . . Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #30
The Friendly Persuasion Babel_17 Nov 2015 #31
K&R CharlotteVale Nov 2015 #32
He's a politican just like any other one when they see the polling and they are way behind FloridaBlues Nov 2015 #36
The only politician among Presidential candidate who's been going down any road they think will help merrily Nov 2015 #126
Shout LOUDER Bernie! sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #39
I don't have to sleep... sgtbenobo Nov 2015 #83
Good. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #53
What happened to his proclamation "I won't go negative"? George II Nov 2015 #93
You clearly have a very interesting vision of what constitutes 'negative'. Kentonio Nov 2015 #99
Pointing out differences... AlbertCat Nov 2015 #100
"go negative" Like trolling the bernie sanders group and alerting as much as possible? L0oniX Nov 2015 #109
HUH? What about it? & she's always gone negative. As it was in 2008, so it is now and ever shall be. merrily Nov 2015 #121
But, but, but... HassleCat Nov 2015 #101

Renew Deal

(81,873 posts)
1. Did the second phase begin with determining she would be a good VP?
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:24 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie must not find her that objectionable.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
26. Nope, she belongs where the voters put her.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:20 PM
Nov 2015

Personally, I'm hoping that's some variant of "out to pasture."

(incoming accusations of sexism in 3...2...1...)

Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #26)

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
54. Unbelievable, isn't it?
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:56 PM
Nov 2015

The comparison to "American Idol" is apt, but this goes much further. Disturbingly so. Almost the sort of sentiment...

I'll stop there.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
58. I always thought it was more like a
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:30 PM
Nov 2015

"Damn it there will be a woman President before I die even if it kills me" thing going on with a lot of them. But it may just be me thinking that.

On edit: But I do like the American Idol thing too.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
128. There's no shortage of terms to describe
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 10:39 PM
Nov 2015

the downright ridiculous (even alarming) statements emanating from Camp Weathervane these days, that's for sure.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
55. Hopefully she damn well pleases to take her humanitarian work to Libya or Iraq
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:15 PM
Nov 2015

I understand that women and children there could use some help, and I don't doubt clinton's dedication on those causes

1monster

(11,012 posts)
25. Actually, Bernie said that the campaign staffer who said that spoke "inappropriately."
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:13 PM
Nov 2015

Try on another one.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
113. The staffer was joking, but I can see why Bernie said that.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:26 PM
Nov 2015

Didn't want any thin skinned folk bleeding out. Safety first.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
3. Funny that some people are mentioning records and differences in approaches
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:30 PM
Nov 2015

See that as attacks. Weird even.

I'm very glad he's showing the differences. Especially since #HillarysSoBernie lately

femmedem

(8,207 posts)
5. Right? Presumably if you support Clinton for the nomination
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:52 PM
Nov 2015

then you support her policies, and would welcome the differentiation between the two candidates.

Response to femmedem (Reply #5)

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
88. Right? That was my take as well.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:54 PM
Nov 2015

If trying to take care of our least instead of our most for a change is an attack, then hand me a pitchfork.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
116. What a crappy hide for hifiguy. (Sorry raouldukelives, can't reply to a hidden post.)
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:41 PM
Nov 2015

P.S. Don't bring a pitchfork to gun fight.

LiberalArkie

(15,728 posts)
90. I think that HRC's problem come from where she gets her focus groups.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:30 PM
Nov 2015

Bernie probably asks general people in Burlington about what their problems are and what he can do as their Senator.

HRC more than likely asks a focus group at Goldman Sachs or her friends what she can do to help them.

We never see who Bernie meets and talks to because he doesn't consider it as a news event needed to be publicized.

Just different personalities.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
127. Remember that pic of her "listening" to ordinary people in a diner? Turned out to be her staffers.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:47 PM
Nov 2015

merrily

(45,251 posts)
114. He should mention every position she's changed lately and say he's glad that
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:31 PM
Nov 2015

she came around to his view.

Congrats on your new position. We love it!

marym625

(17,997 posts)
129. I have before
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 11:23 PM
Nov 2015

There's always some excuse as to why it was changed that has zero to do with truth. What the pollster tell her is good.

Marty McGraw

(1,024 posts)
49. She wuz ♫
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:29 PM
Nov 2015
a GoldWater (as well as a Goldman Sachs and a Gold Walmart .... and whatever shines with Gold) Girl ♫

Response to Marty McGraw (Reply #17)

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
6. It's not about Hillary. It's about policy. Which policy is better? Making the wealthiest pay into SS
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:55 PM
Nov 2015

at the rate of the rest of us, or starving granny?

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
11. Hey, Grannie has already had too much to eat over the years!
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:15 PM
Nov 2015
Sometimes it seems like the core Corporatist actually think like that, doesn't it?
 

Poeradley

(20 posts)
14. well if you add up
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:18 PM
Nov 2015

all the food grannie's eaten over the years vs an 18 year old trump fan, clearly she has had more than him, and he deserves his fair share too!

Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #6)

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
28. But social security is hopefully going to be included in that
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:25 PM
Nov 2015

18 year old persons fair share. He is going to get old some day.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
10. Is "she and I have a strong disagreement on this,” a sexst attack?
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:13 PM
Nov 2015

Just wondering if that's a phrse that's on the accepted list.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
23. Even the most minimal disagreement with HRH
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 05:51 PM
Nov 2015

can only be motivated by the most base and brutal sexism. Didn't you get the memo?

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
18. He started changing his approach at the
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:59 PM
Nov 2015

Iowa Jefferson Jackson dinner?

Do you mean the night all his people got up and left so rudely, after Bernie was finished speaking?

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
37. I wouldn't stay to listen to Hillary parrot Bernie either.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:25 PM
Nov 2015

If I just listened to Bernie why do I need to stay to listen to Bernie lite?

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
41. It is courteous to stay for the entire evening.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:34 PM
Nov 2015

Those supporters understood nothing about common courtesy and protocol.

Bernie's supporters just showed how rude they were, and how little they care about being able to attend an important Democratic Party event. Of course, since Bernie is not a Democrat, and his supporters show their rudeness all over the Internet, I am not surprised.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
48. wait wait wait...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:22 PM
Nov 2015

.....is this continual scolding of Bernie by Hillary supporters a CLASSIST reaction?

Bernie with his sleeves rolled up and his populism and his Brooklyn accent vs. WASP Hillary, Ivy League grad who schmoozes with the 1 percent and ooozes entitlement?

Is that what this is all about?????????? Classism?

He's rude. His supporters are boors. Not fit to attend an IMPORTANT event.

Holy shit.

I reject snobbery. That's not what the Democratic party is about. Never has been. NEVER should be.

Booooo!

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
68. No one said any such thing.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:46 AM
Nov 2015

You are the one who brought classism into this, not me. Manners are common to all people, regardless of so-called class or income. You are inventing.

My daughter attended that event when she was a college student. She was a caucus leader. She also went to the Harkin steak fry.

We are farmers, not Ivy Leaguers.

His supporters are rude. I reject rudeness.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
70. I raised classism because your post above reeks of it, IMO.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:49 AM
Nov 2015

Hillary is an Ivy Leaguer. Did you not know?

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
71. Who cares?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:52 AM
Nov 2015

She connects with all sorts of people across all demographics. Her poll numbers prove it.

You are the one raising class issues. Why are you so sensitive about this?

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
72. because classism is offensive to true, traditional Democrats.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:57 AM
Nov 2015

We fight AGAINST classism.

She may connect with all sorts of people (although I have no memory of seeing her with poor folk or homeless folk, for example), but her supporters are beginning to smell of snobbery, IMO.

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
76. All of a sudden Bernie is a blue collar dude?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:13 AM
Nov 2015

It seems to me that he has an excellent education, with a degree from the University of Chicago.

He's not exactly a hard-hat wearing guy with a union card in his back pocket. I have worked with a number of those people over the years that I have been a Democratic activist. My husband, who farmed before he retired, always had to have an outside job. He was a printer as well as a farmer. He was first GCIU, and later a Teamster.

I think this classism claim is just a new meme to use against Hillary. You have tried it out, and it is not working. Look at all the union endorsements she is getting.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
78. He's fighting for working people. Are you kidding???
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:23 AM
Nov 2015

I guess you have not paid any iota of attention to him. Ever.

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
79. Nope.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:28 AM
Nov 2015

I pay more attention to Democrats, who support working people actively. I try to keep an eye on Republicans, who are trying to undercut working people.

Bernie is an Independent from a small state with a sparse population. Although I have always liked him, he has never been on my radar as someone helping us very much. He is insignificant.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
81. So now who's rude?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:37 AM
Nov 2015

Why doesn't Hillary rein you rude supporters in? See?

Bernie is the furthest thing from insignificant. Especially in this primary campaign. Everyone knows Hillary would be running much further to the right and would not be trying to convince us she's a progressive if it wasn't for Bernie.

But nevermind. You've shown your hand when you used the "he's not a Dem" meme. Your whole post was a smear against him.

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
82. I am not smearing.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:42 AM
Nov 2015

I am stating the truth. He is not a Democrat.

Defending my candidate is not rude. You people are the ones who started name-calling in this thread, about classism and the like.

It is simply the truth that Bernie's supporters have gained attention on various Internet sites, Facebook, Twitter, for their rudeness to people who support Hillary. It has been reported by various media outlets and commentators. DU is not the only place overrun by rude Bernie supporters.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
105. You were not defending your candidate. You were attempting to belittle Sanders.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 05:55 PM
Nov 2015

Typical DU Hillary supporter. You whine about what Bernie supporters are doing and then you go and say the shit you said in your previous post.

As to the rest of your post, two words and a link:

Clinton Cave
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=647936

Stop projecting. (bonus words!)

merrily

(45,251 posts)
119. No, that Bernie is not now a Democrat is not the truth at all.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:53 PM
Nov 2015
You people are the ones who started name-calling in this thread, about classism and the like.


Since when is one poster "you people?"


It is simply the truth that Bernie's supporters have gained attention on various Internet sites, Facebook, Twitter, fortheir rudeness to people who support Hillary.

No, that is not the truth at all. Some Bernie supporters do that and some Hillary supporters are rude to those who support Bernie. That' truth.

Not every broad brush negative that pops into your head about Bernie and his supporters is "the truth." In fact, probably zero of them are. Sadly, you seem unable to see that.
 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
96. Bernie is an Independent from a small state with a sparse population.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 03:02 PM
Nov 2015

Ahhh.... it's the GOP meme from back in June again!

Why do Hillary Supporters keep championing GOP memes?

RI is a smaller state. Shall we ignore everyone from there MORE than those from VT?

WY has less people (I believe) than VT, but is much bigger. How does it fit in with this hierarchy?

And what does it have to do with anything?


" He is insignificant." ...to you. Not to VTers.... or real progressives.

Thanks for you sage insights on someone who is not even on your radar!

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
106. Isn't it amazing how much energy is put into something insignificant?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 05:57 PM
Nov 2015

And with so much projection!


merrily

(45,251 posts)
122. And your opinion of a U.S. States Senator who wrote more legislation that passed than your candidate
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:58 PM
Nov 2015

is more significant than, say, community health centers or an audit of the fed or a bill benefiting veterans? Yeah, Bernie wrote those and got them passed. Meanwhile, Hillary was naming post offices and commemorating the anniversary of the revolution and trying, but failing, to get two unconstitutional flag "desecration" bills she wrote passed.

Bernie never helped us much? Saying stuff like that only shows you haven't educated yourself. You're just posting one negative after another and hoping... Actually, what are you hoping those posts will do?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
118. What do you mean all of a sudden? He grew up poor. He's never been a millionaire.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:46 PM
Nov 2015

No one said anything about blue collar. That is not the only aspect of classism. But he sure has walked a lot of picket lines.

If you ever post anything other than bs about Bernie and his supporters, I've apparently missed it. You may want to post more on substance.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
92. you're seeing it too?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:49 PM
Nov 2015

An elitist, entitled POV by Hillary supporters portraying Bernie and his supporters as rabble.

That POV should be pointed out and repudiated!!

frylock

(34,825 posts)
51. Bucking tradition, Hillary didn't march with supporters to the JJ Dinner..
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:37 PM
Nov 2015

I must have missed your posts condemning her for such rude behavior.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
73. Hahaha...
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:59 AM
Nov 2015

omg... so pissy. THAT's what you take away from the policy differences?

No wonder our country is in so much trouble. No one cares about policy anymore. Just personalities and hurt feelings. We are actually worried about our very democracy. Why should people stay and listen to someone who would put the final nail in the coffin? Elect Hillary and get all the 'free trade' deals passed and then our democracy and even our constitution won't mean squat any more.

murielm99

(30,764 posts)
75. I think this rudeness, which is becoming
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:08 AM
Nov 2015

very widely discussed, reflects on your candidate. Not reigning them in shows a lack of character and organizational ability on his part.

If he cannot get his supporters to behave, how can he do anything with Congress, or some of the tough overseas governments he could face? Not that I believe he will ever get this far, but it is a valid question.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
77. Oh come on. I take it you are a Hillary supporter...
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:21 AM
Nov 2015

so please let me see all the posts where you complain about their rudeness. And please, how about her rudeness? Race baiting in a campaign against Obama. Putting out the sexist meme in this campaign.

So tell me, why are you only discussing Bernie supporters and not policy? And have you responded to the post where someone pointed out she didn't follow 'protocal' by not marching with supporters?

I agree, I could be more polite, but after reading all the smears on here posted by Hillary supporters and knowing that many of them post on the Clinton Cave site where they spew pure hatred at Bernie and his supporters, specifically DUers by name, I can't take any of these petty complaints seriously.

I'm sorry for the tone, but it's NOTHING compared to what Hillary supporters do. Truth be told, I actually was going to self-delete had it not been responded to, but oh well. I still stand by what I've said even if I could have said it better.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
87. Those who attend Bernie events seem educated, and very polite.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 12:30 PM
Nov 2015

Are you really going to attempt a broad brush smear of millions because of a few rude posters on the Internet?

If so, your attempt failed.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
123. "If he cannot get his supporters to behave" ???? Your desperation to post negative things about
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:04 PM
Nov 2015

Bernie, no matter how utterly nonsensical it is, is not impressing anyone. Maybe save it for the Cave, where it's red meat. Here it's more like old fish.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
124. Or, it was a political statement. Or, they had a train to catch. So the fuck what?
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:07 PM
Nov 2015

Is Hillary's multimillion dollar world going to crumble because Bernie's supporters, for whatever reason, didn't stay to were interested in whatever her positions du jour were?

Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, jobs, NSA, constitutional rights.

We're choosing a Presidential candidate, someone who may become the most powerful person in the world, and this is the kind of detritus on which we remain riveted day after day? When someone's non professional politician supporters left a dinner, the first one of its kind they'd ever attended? Really?

Tell anyone who raises this again to piss off.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
52. It was reported after the fact that their buses were leaving with or without them
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:50 PM
Nov 2015

The event started very, very late due to extra security. It was a bit out of their control, to be honest. It wasn't as if they walked out on Hillary's speech because they didn't want to hear from her.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
98. Shhhhhhhh!
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 03:08 PM
Nov 2015

You'll ruin the ""poor put upon" Hillary meme.

It's delicate, like the War on Christmas meme.

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
29. Eliminating the cap on income will never happen
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:27 PM
Nov 2015

I'm all for increasing the income level for collecting SS, but scraping it all together is just words floating around in the clouds.

The Sanders Campaign has become reactionary. I'm surprised they haven't gone after HRC for her vote on the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
35. have you ever sat at a negotiating table?
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:45 PM
Nov 2015

This is where i've had the biggest problems with Obama. You don't start from the compromise position... you start from the PIE in the SKY! You'll get whittled down, of course, but you're in a stronger position afterwards dammit! This isn't reactionary, this is good politics!




postatomic

(1,771 posts)
56. I've sat at negotiating tables
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:20 PM
Nov 2015

If you start with PIE in the SKY proposals you risk losing everything. People with a contrary position will see this as a sign of insincerity. Neither of us know what President Obama has gone through when he's forced to work with Republicans. The reactionary comment was in response to the "new" shift to the persuasion phase. Generally speaking you are either a Reactionary or you are Pro-Active.

A Reactionary will see things like... oh I don't know.... let's say really bad polling numbers and say "shit, we need to do something". It's just my opinion but I think the Sanders Campaign thought they could just have some big rallies and everything would be peachy. Then they thought the Debates would give Sanders the exposure he needed to be accepted with open arms by the Public. We both know that didn't go so well. Bottom line; a Reactionary really doesn't have a plan and a Pro-Active does.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
104. The things i can tell you
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 04:24 PM
Nov 2015

without violating the confidentiality agreements i've signed are that i've been a contract committee member and an unpaid consultant. I've used IBB (Interest Based Bargaining) methods and traditional "adversarial" bargaining. For one contract we met weekly for near 14 months.

I maintain that without presenting the "Pie in the Sky" your partners in the negotiation will never really understand where the middle ground is. When you begin negotiations from the compromise position, you inevitably compromise further.



apologies for my previous terse response...

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
42. If you are truly interested in the details of Bernie's plan, they are available.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:35 PM
Nov 2015

He suggests lifting the cap for incomes above $250k/yr creating a donut hole from $118K to $250K where there would be no change. So if you make more than $250k/yr you would pay more into SS for income above that amount.

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
59. I am interested and I went to his site to read it
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:43 PM
Nov 2015

Do you know how Social Security works? Half is paid by the Employee and Half is paid by the Employer. It's the same with Medicare Payments. 100% of Withholding Tax is paid for by the Employee. Putting that extra tax burden on businesses isn't an idea that would ever see the light of day.

Then there is the Tax Code. Someone making over $250K would be taxed again on Social Security disbursements if they earn in excess of the amount(s) and how they are calculated. We would have to re-write the Tax Code for Social Security Payments. Another idea that would have a difficult time seeing the light.

Plans are great and all but if you don't think them all the way through........ nothing gets done. It sounds good because anyone who makes over $250K can afford to pay extra. Or, so the story goes..........

I'd be happy with a 5% to 10% increase over the current income cap.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
134. why would changing the tax code matter?
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 04:12 AM
Nov 2015

It's fine constantly.

Why should someone that makes $125k stop paying into social security at $118k instead of people that make. $40k pay more?

Raising the cap makes a hell of a lot more sense than increasing contributions for those that make $40k or less.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
125. Not that far fetched. She voted for every war and every "surge" for which she was eligible to vote.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:17 PM
Nov 2015

The Iraq War vote was indeed compared to "another Gulf of Tonkin" resolution. Senator Byrd, if I'm not mistaken. Though what that has to do with Social Security is beyond me.

As far as Social Security (or anything else) you don't start with the very least for which you might be willing to settle. You don't even start with what you realistically think is possible. You start, at the very least, with what you'd like to get and,. ideally, with more than that.

Calling people reactionary for posting what they'd like to see happen is bizarre. You might want to look at that.

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
130. Okay
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 11:27 PM
Nov 2015

* The Gulf of Tonkin reference was a play on the dated/aged "issues" posted by the OP. It is called being sarcastic.

** The only thing that I'm really very concerned about with regards to Social Security is having the Republicans trash it... and privatize it. I'd like to hear how Sanders plans on getting this lofty program passed. I don't expect you to answer that. Just voicing my concerns, the same concerns I've already outlined.

*** The only people that I called reactionary is the Sanders Campaign. NOT his supporters. NOT any DUer. I'll stand by that comment and I don't need to 'have a look at it'. Again; a Reactionary is someone who doesn't have a plan. They just 'react' to whatever comes up. Please don't morph this into something it is not.

Thanks!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
131. I knew you intended your Gulf of Tonkin remark as sarcasm. However, without your intending to, you
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 11:37 PM
Nov 2015

came close to the truth with it anyway.


How does any President get a program passed? Senator Bernie has a better record of getting legislation that he wrote passed than did Senator Hillary. I wonder how someone who said Republicans were her enemies and the ones she was most proud of having would do getting things passed anyway.

The Sanders campaign is not reacting to whatever comes along. That would be Hillary.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
30. Hillary is not a progressive, and when people compare their records in Congress, that becomes . . .
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:52 PM
Nov 2015

. . . very apparent.

Hillary is far more mediocre than Bernie.

FloridaBlues

(4,008 posts)
36. He's a politican just like any other one when they see the polling and they are way behind
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:07 PM
Nov 2015

Not surprised he's going down any road he thinks will help him but I don't think the voters are feeling the Bern like his supporters want them too.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
126. The only politician among Presidential candidate who's been going down any road they think will help
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 09:22 PM
Nov 2015

is Hillary. None of the other four has done that.

Yes, Bernie is a politician. Duh. He's a U.S. Senator. By definition, he is a politician. But, no, he is not a politician like any other and you know it. If he were, you wouldn't even need to claim that.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
99. You clearly have a very interesting vision of what constitutes 'negative'.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 03:12 PM
Nov 2015

Perhaps someone might also mention to Hillary about not running a negative campaign. Implying that your opponent who has spent his life fighting for equality is a sexist is a pretty vile smear.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
100. Pointing out differences...
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 03:15 PM
Nov 2015

.... is not "going negative".

Going negative would be like insisting "shouting" is somehow a misogynistic thing.

Or that going to the USSR during Glasnost and Perestroika after getting married was a Commie Honeymoon.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
121. HUH? What about it? & she's always gone negative. As it was in 2008, so it is now and ever shall be.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 08:56 PM
Nov 2015

amen

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