Trying to find my Political Identity... not a troll I promise

[JoshRuiz94]

Hi All...

18 years old here, graduated in June. This obviously is my first election coming up and I'm trying to find out who I really am, politically. I don't know what else to say, but I'm a guy from a middle class mostly white and hispanic town. I've been following the election stuff pretty good this year, we had a few politics assignments late last school year during the R primaries.

Firstly I think all politicians are scum lol... but I know thats not right. So I was googling political stuff and came here and thought why not post a little self help thread lol.

Ask me questions and help me understand where I'm at in the political world.

tia!!

JR

[JoshRuiz94]

1. I'll start...

gay marriage.

I don't think it is ANYONES business who someone likes/dates/marries. Those who think otherwise are snooping nannies. I'm not gay but if someone is born that way, so what? Some people are born to be tall, some short, some straight and some gay. Whatever...

I don't call it equal rights or whatever, I call it minding your own business.

[DURHAM D]

4. In order for gays to marry you, and a majority of voters, would have to make it your business.

Will you?

[JoshRuiz94]

6. sure, why not? I live in California

and cant believe they passed that law banning gay marriage I woulda voted no.

But NOT because I'm an activist in the cause... it's because I believe people need to mind their own business.

[FSogol]

2. Welcome to DU. n/t

[Downwinder]

3. Welcome.

If you are not in the 1% you have come to the correct place.

[JoshRuiz94]

14. if I had parents worth 100 million $$ how would that make me any different? nt

[Downwinder]

18. You wouldn't have to do your own typing or thinking.

[MatthewStLouis]

27. It's the difference between starting a race at the starting line versus at the halfway point.

Many successful people started with nothing, but the majority had the advantage of parents who put them through college, helped them find their first job, gave them start-up money, and generally gave them a huge leg up on everybody else. Nothing wrong with that, really, but you shouldn't pretend you are a self made man when you aren't.

[silverweb]

5. Welcome, Josh!

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]I think deciding who you are politically is determined by what you believe is right in terms of policy positions.

Here's a fun little test to help you get started: http://politicalcompass.org/test

After you take the test, you might want to examine why you answered each question the way you did and what your actual beliefs are in terms of what those positions mean.

In general, I think it's safe to say (echoing others who said it first) that conservatives are more like a family with a strict dad, who maintains tight control over the way his family lives and spends money, how the kids dress, etc. It's a very authoritarian, top-down approach with little room for straying. Their focus is inward, a bit paranoid regarding outsiders, and very concerned with control.

On the other hand, liberals are more like a family that's less organized, much more open and welcoming of visitors, has a looser schedule, and allows the kids to mostly choose their own clothes. Their focus encompasses all family members equally, with room to also include friends and neighbors.

I hope that helps you get started!

[JoshRuiz94]

7. kk I'm heading there now

[JoshRuiz94]

9. ok here I am

Economic Left/Right: -0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.82

[Warpy]

22. Just realize that where you are will be subject to drastic change

over the next 10 years or so. This isn't a patronizing comment, it's just the way things are for 99% of us and that's OK, it's how it's supposed to be as life experience takes over from books as a primary learning resource.

Just try to have fun with the journey and don't forget to laugh at yourself from time to time, it will save your sanity.

[silverweb]

28. Good.

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]As Warpy said, your attitudes and positions will change over time, as you learn and experience more. Right now, you're pretty much a "centrist." That's where I used to be years ago (now much more lefty/libertarian). It's really interesting to observe the transitions over time.

DU is a wonderful place to get information and a whole range of opinions on many topics. I hope you enjoy it here.

Enjoy the journey!

[Foolacious]

51. I made the same shift as silverweb.

When I was OP's age, I suspect I would have scored close to the middle; now (at six times OP's age) I am squarely in the Left/Libertarian quadrant at -5.38/-6.31. Which actually surprised me... I anticipated numbers closer to -2/-2.

I've sometimes reckoned that it was society, not me, that was shifting. But one area that I know I've gone "left" in is tolerance -- a result, I like to think, of growing maturity.

[silverweb]

60. Welcome to DU, Foolacious!

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]I suspect that society shifting right as well as our own maturing and growth in tolerance combined to create the results we see.

I'm still left of you, probably also older.

[DURHAM D]

20. What ?

That politicalcompass thingie is silly.

When I got to the question about abstract art I knew for certain that it had been developed by The John Birch Society.

[silverweb]

25. lol

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]Actually, I believe it was originally developed some time ago by the Libertarian Party. It's a general indicator of the way a person thinks and has its uses.

The question about abstract art is interesting, I think. Traditionalists/conservatives are more often offended by art that "doesn't make sense" to them, where liberals are more likely to spend a little time trying to figure out what the artist was trying to say, i.e. are more open to other points of view besides their own.

[DURHAM D]

31. One of the basic beliefs of the Birchers is that abstract art

is a tool of and promotes communism. The problem is simply that it is not traditional and represents change. Change is the boogie man.

They remain ever on watch for communist college professors, artists, and pretty much any musician born after 1920. I just remembered - they also hate jazz. It is subversive.

[silverweb]

37. I don't know any actual Birchers, thank goodness.

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]They probably considered William F. Buckley a commie, too. A conservative plant, even. After all, he's the one credited with saying, "A conservative is a fellow who is standing athwart history yelling 'Stop!'"

Poor, deluded fools. No sense of adventure!

[DURHAM D]

38. Unfortunately I do.

My aunt and uncle. And yes, they did not care for Buckley. One of the people they truly despised was Eisenhower. I used to get them going on Ike and my aunt would turn red with anger. My Dad fianlly asked me to stop playing with them because we only saw them twice a year and once they got going they could not stop. I stopped in the mid-80s out of respect for my father.

BTW - they attended the 1988 Republican Convention as delegates for Pat Robertson. This was the highlight of their life.

[silverweb]

62. Ugh. Well, good that it was long ago.

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]I've had enough trouble in the past steering clear of "debate" with my run-of-the-mill conservative/regressive relatives, can't imaging having to relate to Birchers.

[hfojvt]

57. libertairans here still use a short version

this one I thought was designed to make people seem more progressive than they really are.

Or I may be thinking of a quiz from CAP (Center for American Progress) or some such group. One that not only asked "strongly agree, don't know, strongly disagree" but also "how important is this issue to you on a scale of 1 to 10?"

[silverweb]

61. That makes sense.

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]It fits pretty well with the assessment that even Americans who call themselves "centrist" or "conservative" overall will agree with specific progressive policies when questioned about those individually. I think that's a good thing.

[Ebadlun]

39. That thing is bizarre

I'm economically well to the left of Chavez, apparently, and more socially libertarian than any world leader anywhere. Francoise Hollande only just makes the Left/Libertarian quadrant, even after proposing a 75% top tax rate..

Of course as well you need to distinguish between what leaders think privately and what they need to say to voters and/or the IMF.

[silverweb]

45. Yeah, bizarre but fun.

[font color="green" face="Verdana"]Mainly a springboard for further thought and discussion, i.e. what do the labels really mean?

Welcome to DU.

[freshwest]

8. Welcome, look around. It's rather complicated. BTW, I come from the NYOB crowd on many issues, too.

[JoshRuiz94]

11. its REALLY complicated.

I want this country to be great, not average. I want to LEAD the world economy, not be the dogs tail. I want to be respected more than liked. I want to have the first man on Mars and I want the US to lead the next technological revolution. My idea of American greatness means what we can ACCOMPLISH and DO.

A powerful american economy can better afford the luxuries that SHOULD be afforded to a citizen. We need mega-corporations making zillions of dollars (properly taxed of course)

I believe in healthcare for all and a retirement for all. But it has to be fueled by an american economy making $$ hand over fist.

We already have an american product (MS operating system) in nearly every computer on the planet... we can do this.

How's that?

[niyad]

16. by the way, do you know that there is a country that measures "gross domestic happiness"

rather than gdp?

what do you think of a country that cares about the happiness and well-being of its citizenry above the marketplace?

[JoshRuiz94]

21. here's how I htink about it.

You have a 19 year old kid at Gettysburg in 1863 with 6 bullet holes in him. He's thinking about his nation and he dreams of the day that people will die of starvation in the street or be denied a life saving surgery because he has no money?

NOT!!

We... as Americans haven't EARNED anything. However... those that came before us have already deposited into our accounts. Meaning... as the most powerful nation in the world, there are or should be benefits. America should take care of it's own.

But it should take care of it's own in the most responsible way. We should NEVER spend more $$ than we bring in. It's about the principle.

AND I will stick up for the rich people... they should NEVER be taxed so high that they lose the inclination to be successful.

Having said that, I believe we need to overhaul the tax system. Mitt Romney legally paid 13% of his income in taxes. That's ok, it's legal and I'm not going to slam him for having accountants make his tax bill minimal. BUT you think something is WRONG then the law only requires 13%? I see nothing worng with taxing ALL INCOME around 30-40%

[MatthewStLouis]

53. In the real world nothing is black and white...never say never...

Sometimes governments have to spend more than they take in: say during times of war or to head off a recession or save us from a depression. Government is not a business and shouldn't run like one. The number one motive of any business is profit. The motive of government is law and order, justice, defense, protection of our liberties and the general welfare of the people. This is clearly stated in our constitution.

Here is a parable: there are 3 fathers, each with a starving family. The first was too proud to borrow beans to feed his family, they all died. The second borrowed beans and fed them all to his family, but they found they were starving again in a month. The third borrowed beans and fed half to his family and taught his family how to plant and cultivate the other half; the family was no longer starving and was able to repay the debt with interest.

Now what's more responsible? Feeding your family so they can fight another day? Or letting them die?

And about being over taxed so you lose the inclination to be successful.

I think it's impossible to over-tax a rich person. As long as you're not chopping off their heads (like say in the French Revolution) I'd think they will always be happy to have more money than you or I. I can't can't imagine saying "Oh, I only made 10 million dollars instead of 20 million; I think I'll give up!"

The wealthy really have the system rigged in their favor. It would be nice if the tax system were fairer and more transparent, wouldn't it?

[Amonester]

63. As a side note, it's not a 100% certainty that Romney paid 13% of his income in taxes.

So it should not be used as an example (before the truth about his 'income' taxes' is officially revealed and known) for more than 1.5 fy.

Just sayin' and welcome to DU where there is always more to learn.

[LeftofObama]

10. Welcome to DU!

How refreshing to see an 18 year old who is trying to decide where he is politically. I know some people much older than you who don't know where they are geographically, let alone politically. It's great that you are trying to become more self aware. I predict you will go far!

Here's my question for you: Where do you stand on the separation of church and state, and why?

[JoshRuiz94]

12. ok church and state...

I googled it just to have a bit more background.

But basically...

It means that the government can't and shouldn't establish or condone a specific religion. So there can't be involuntary membership in the Catholic church for example.

This also means that people have the right to practice whatever they please...Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Barkatthemoonism or whatever or nothing at all.

This also brings up a pet peeve of mine. I'm creeped out by the neighbor types who ask where your family goes to church at... it;'s creepy.

I also accept that some of the founders of the country borrowed from Christian concepts and ideals in the founding of this nation. But those principles are moreover moral principles and not religious rules.

[Thrill]

13. Name one thing Republicans have done for the middle class

in your lifetime? JUST ONE?

there is your answer.

[niyad]

15. welcome to DU-- a great place to be educated, to find answers, friends, like-minded, or not so.

My question to you is: where do you stand on the issue of women's complete reproductive autonomy?

[great white snark]

17. Welcome JoshRuiz94.

If tolerance compels you, you're in the right place.

[JoshRuiz94]

23. imho... tolerance

is about respecting your neighbor.

But it's a 2-way street. You have to smile and wave at the weird family that goes to church 3 times per week and gives you dirty looks when you ride your bike in front of their house AND you have to be tolerant of those of different skin color or sex orientation.

Tolerance for all means tolerance for the thing u dont like too

[Warren DeMontague]

41. However, there are very few, say, Christian Conservatives whose personal choices aren't "tolerated".

What you see, often, from our side is intolerance for their intolerance: "It's my right to hate gay people and vote against them having equal rights, and you need to tolerate my bigotry" or "not only do you need to tolerate the fact that I think the Earth is 6,000 years old, you need to tolerate me rewriting public school science textbooks to reflect my view", that sort of thing.

[jody]

19. You might find the Political Compass Test interesting, link below.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[DURHAM D]

24. The bottom of every page of the quiz provides links to Romney's website.

When you finished the quiz it shows cartoon characters of Castro, Gandhi and Obama. The questions assume conservative values and mindset. It is a right wing website.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. It does?

I'm not seeing that. And I don't know why cartoon characters of Castro, Ghandi and Obama signify anything other than cartoon characters of those three people. Most people like Ghandi and Obama. Castro, not so much.

[DURHAM D]

33. Did you enter the quiz?

The home page has a different link at the bottom. And why no cartoon character of Romney?

Maybe one gets different cartoons (I noticed two different ones of Obama - one particularly ugly) depending on how you score.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Yeah, I did. Results below.

That site's been around for a while; I don't know why no cartoon of Romney, but I'm not sure a presence or absence of a cartoon alone indicates a particular political persuasion.

I do know that many of the objections I've seen voiced to the political compass is that most people- most liberals- who feel like government has no business telling consenting adults what they can or can't do with their bodies, or meddling in personal morality, that sort of thing (i.e. most people here)- tend to end up on the left-libertarian quadrant, especially based on their answers to the social issue questions:

...and many people in this country associate, rightly or wrongly, small-l libertarianism the philosophy with the big L Libertarian Party... even though the left-libertarian quadrant, if it were going to be attached to a specific party or platform, is probably best represented by the Greens.

it's an objection to the label, I think.

[DURHAM D]

36. There is a better more comprehensive test somewhere.

It has occasionally been posted on DU. It took a lot longer than 3 minutes to complete. Hopefully someone will show up and give us a link.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Yeah, a lot of the questions are broad and poorly worded.

Still, the net result in my case is accurate; I tend small-l libertarian on social issues, middle-left on economics.

[jody]

43. OK but occasionally right wing advertisements appear on DU. By your definition is DU "a right wing

website"?

[Warren DeMontague]

26. My results are pretty much the same as they usually are

Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23

[jody]

42. Mea culpa, an earlier poster made the same suggestion. nt

[developertest01]

30. If you haven't done so already

I have the secret. Its the money. If you have yet to donate, break out the wallet, spend the 25 dollars and just do it. Post all you want its money from people like you and me that counts. Start your own page, or check out my beautiful cat and donate on mine. Quit talking, its money that counts.
[link:https://donate.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/2012/willardbuster|

[2pooped2pop]

32. basically, if you have any decency as a human being

you're a dem. Wish I was kidding. Good luck with your journey. Fact check what each side tells you and see who is truthful, and who are republicans.

lol

[ailsagirl]

34. I also wanted to put my 2 cents' worth in

Here's a thread from an independent voter who became a Dem today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021195540

Again, welcome to DU!!

[Sunlei]

44. I think a Romney admin will bring back the draft and start several wars

Those wealthy investors make the best profits off wars, and you're in the prime age/demographic to be their cannon fodder.

Can America really afford to hand over more trillions of Americans current tax revenue to war profiteers?

The President has already made great progress computerizing the Gov with great efficiency results and he is NOT a war monger. Americans are in desperate need of at least, 4 more years of the Obama upgrade.

Our Parents and Grandparents deserve an un-selfish Admin. to upgrade and maintain their future. To have a President focus on Americans for once is priceless!

[Jennicut]

46. I voted for Clinton when I was 20.

I had an interest in politics by the time I was 16 but I couldn't vote in the '92 election. By '96 I was even more sure that I was a moderate to liberal. Don't let anyone tell you your opinion does not matter because you are young. Your generation will have a lot to deal with in the coming years. Also, the two parties are different. Many say they are the same but after voting in 4 Presidential elections (I voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama) now I know better. Corruption can happen in either party but where the issues matter socially and economically, the two parties are vastly different.

[rug]

47. Vote for whomever will help those most in need.

You will never vote republican.

Keep it simple.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. Are you the real JR?

only kidding.

you have to vote for a party that is people-friendly.

[nolabels]

49. The question i would ask is "where do want to be in the political world, or any other kind of world?

Best thing is not getting caught up in what ever is trying to suck you in and just doing what you might believe to be correct (or right, if you need). Make your own trail if you need and just don't burn bridges on the way, others might need to trek on or through your path here and there occasionally.

You really won't need a identity to hang onto of any kind unless you have some kind of need to follow, you just need to be YOU while having fun doing it

[IgnatiusReilly]

50. Advice from an Old man to Young Josh

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE USA before it is to late.

This country is dying, upward mobility is gone, upward mobility is better in Europe then the USA now.

If you choose to stay you best prepared to support yourself on your own for your entire life.

Do not count on Gov anything to help.

Do not count on SS, Medicare or Unemployment, police or fire department, get off the grid too, be totally self sufficient.

You can do what you want, I really don't care one way or another, but be wise in your choices and don't whine if you choose poorly.

[redwitch]

54. Bitter much?

Defeatist? You make me sad.

[IgnatiusReilly]

55. Nope not bitter at all, just giving the kid the facts

reality is so much better then fantasy.

[jody]

58. You claim "giving the kid the facts" but your post #50 is all your opinion. nt

[hfojvt]

56. Why is upward mobility so important?

In fact, I heard that was an American concept. That in Europe, people are not so much in to upward mobility, that, instead, people accept their place in society. That was one of the things I liked about it. In the United States, I have worked as a factory grunt and as a janitor. Meaning that I got low pay, and spotty benefits. Things like good pay and good benefits are reserved for those closer to the top. Whereas in Europe, they take better care of those at the bottom - pay is better, vacation is longer, safety net is more secure, and other benefits are better.

And again, I tried self sufficiency in 1986. It's not a good way to live. At least not with my skills. Maybe if I was the Professor from Gilligans Island I could have made a solar hot water heater out of an old garbage can, dug my own well (maybe with a drill that I hooked up to my car motor), and created an irrigation system. But such as it was, I had almost zero knowledge of agriculture and food storage.

[HopeHoops]

52. Obviuosly a troll - get out. - just kidding. WELCOME TO DU! That's a tough age to decide.

First of all, there's a lot of humor here. The Lounge is the least serious. General Discussion (GD) is mostly serious about a wide variety of issues, Politics 2012 is pretty much exactly what it says, and Video & Multimedia can be all over the charts.

In general, Obama bashing gets clamped down on. Legitimate concerns about what he's doing are different, but the "Obama's a Kenyan Fascist Communist" stuff doesn't fly. Nobody here is fond of FOX Noise or Limbaugh other than for sources of amusement. We're not commie liberal faggot spend-it-all Welfare cheats.

Speaking of which, the language is fairly free-use on DU, but certain words should be avoided, such as "bitch", "cunt", "faggot", "dyke", or anything else that other members may take as offensive. I listed them here because I just laugh when I see euphemisms like "The F-Bomb", or the "C-word". We're adults. If you are not insulting or degrading another member (usually obvious), just be sensitive to the audience.

Feel free to PM me if you have more delicate questions.

[CrispyQ]

59. This is one of my favorite essays.

A Day in the Life of Joe Conservative

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for water-quality standards.

With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some stupid liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe enjoys reading his local newspaper as he eats his breakfast. He is able to read because some whinny liberal, who believed that the best way to help people help themselves is to educate them, fought for a free public school system.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries and government from polluting our air.

He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe pays his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until-some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

Joe is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some elitist liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host, whose right to free speech was fought for and is defended by wimpy liberals, keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that Joe's beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.

Joe agrees that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. "After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Welcome to DU.