Sanders and O'Malley Call for Restoring Iowa Black-Brown Debate. Hillary refuses.

[askew]

The oldest Black-Brown debate in the country takes place in Iowa and for the first time it has been changed from a debate to a forum, thanks to DNC rules.

O'Malley and Sanders have jointly called for waiving DNC rules and restoring this important debate. Hillary refuses to join them in this call.

Via Des Moines Register:

Two presidential hopefuls are objecting to a national Democratic Party rule that will prohibit all the candidates from being on stage together for the Iowa Black & Brown forum — a major departure from history, they say.

The Iowa forum is the oldest minorities-focused presidential event in America, and it's tradition for all the candidates to be on stage together for a lively question-and-answer session about issues that black and Hispanic voters care most about.

But this year, the Democratic National Committee has warned that candidates can only appear on stage individually, otherwise they'll be in violation of the party's "exclusivity" rules and excluded future DNC-sponsored debates. The purpose was to prevent a frenetic 26-debate schedule like candidates had in 2008.

The campaigns for both Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley are speaking out against the restriction on the Black & Brown forum.

In contrast, frontrunner Hillary Clinton on Thursday declined to join the call to change the format.

And DNC officials declined to waive the decree for the Iowa event.

Shame on Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Hillary Clinton for showing such disregard for Iowans and minority issues.

[840high]

1. kick

[Crystalite]

73. Translation: Clinton doesn't care about equity, the interests of people of color.

She and her campaign have calculated that the risk is not worth the good.

Win at any cost.

[HerbChestnut]

2. Says it all, doesn't it?

Hillary and the DNC are doing everything they can to win her the election regardless of the needs or will of the people. Unbelievable.

[roguevalley]

35. no hillary supporter first post here? Tell me again how bernie is a racist

candidate and hillary isn't.

[FloridaBlues]

3. Forums also highlight each candidate's position

The two demanding it to be changed are the bottom 2 in the polls not surprised.
Just because they don't like the rules of the game means you change the game.
This has been widely known for months now. If the bottom 2 candidates where leading I doubt the would be making this noise.

[juxtaposed]

41. if bernie was on top he would be in favor of this

[Lordquinton]

42. The DNC changed the rules

Hillary is the one who the game is being made for.

[daybranch]

45. Bull

Forums obscure real differences under well couched good sounding platitudes focused on repeating motherhood and apple pie, In this instance like in her speeches Hilary spends her time showing she can bash republican idiots like her friend Trump rather than address issue differences between herself and the other democrat opponents.
As for whether it is okay for the rules to be challenged, most democrats are not happy with the limited number or the timing and this resulted in a significant backlash against Hillary's supporter Debbie Wassermann Schultz (DWS) with many calling for her resignation. The rules established by DWS were not a good idea before and time has not improved the rules, so why should they not complain? If most democrats want more debates why should we not be democratic and have them?
The only point you made is that you support Hillary, and turned off a lot of democrats who now see how hollow your words are and now connect Hillary with not wanting to reveal who she really is. Many of us If you think Hillary benefits by highlighting differences in her opinions from O Malley or Bernie wanting to better understand the different positions and perspective of the democratic candidates you have a different opinion from me, many of her opponent's supporters and even from Hillary's advisors and close friends like DWS.

[WillyT]

4. K & R !!!

[leftofcool]

5. When you're behind in the polls, see if whining helps.

[tk2kewl]

8. when you can get away with rewriting the rules to your own benefit...

why not, right?

[MADem]

48. Bernie and Debbie are best friends now-so keep stuffing her under the bus. He won't appreciate it.

They are fundraising jointly now: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/bernie-sanders-2016-fundraising-dnc-215559



People have this idea that DWS is in HRC's pocket, or Obama's pocket. It's just not true, but they do love them a scapegoat, don't they?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/debbie-wasserman-schultz-dnc_560afc1ee4b0af3706de5c96

[2pooped2pop]

56. yikes aanother warning for how Bernie supporters should act.

Bernie supporters act like people who care about this country. Period. This election has been written for history just as a script is sometimes written for an actor. It's so fucking obvious, it stinks.

[MADem]

65. PLEASE...keep on doing what you're doing, if that's what floats your boat!

Just don't sob bitterly when the inevitable results accrue.

[2pooped2pop]

66. like I say. Hillary may win but the world will lose because of it.

I'll keep going with Bernie thanks.

[MADem]

67. No one is demanding that you shift allegiances.

The world will be a far better place when HRC is elected. No one is better prepared. No one.

[JRLeft]

70. No it won't.

[MADem]

71. Well, you think that if you'd like. I think you're wrong.

And you know how that kind of thing works; the only opinion that counts, to you, is yours. The only one that counts, to me, is mine.

[JRLeft]

74. I'm not going to get to a huge mudslinging contest. She has major red flags.

Supporting democrats like her is why we end up with industry friendly policies.

[MADem]

75. No she doesn't--she has the support of most of our party. nt

[AtomicKitten]

6. These machinations by the DNC/Clinton nexus will bite them in the butt. <nt>

[Menshunables]

7. The people of Iowa will not like this

and it will reflect on voting day.

Hillary appears to make another error in judgement.

[firebrand80]

9. O'Malley and Sanders need the exposure

and they can't get it without Hillary.

[pnwmom]

24. Why can't they have a debate between themselves?

[jeff47]

29. Because then the DNC throws them out of the upcoming debates

thanks to the brand-new-for-this-year exclusivity clause.

[Stryder]

51. So be it

Sanders & O'Malley should take it on the road.
The remaining (Woo Hoo! all 4) debates will be
fascinating. Hillary vs HRC.
Naïve, I know. But it's an interesting little "What if."
By the way, when is the next debate? New Years day, 6:00am?

[jeff47]

53. The next debate is the Saturday night before Christmas.

You know...to maximize exposure.

[winter is coming]

68. And the Black & Brown Forum is Jan 16th.

Sanders and O'Malley should do the December debate, bag the DNC, and do a proper debate for the B&B forum.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that there's a DNC debate scheduled for the following night.

[CoffeeCat]

80. Wrong, big time...

O'Malley and Sanders want to do the Black-Brown debate in Des Moines. They are asking the DNC to release them from the rules, so they can attend.

They didn't say anything about Hillary Clinton.

They don't need her.

If they attend and Hillary skips--she'll be the big loser. The Black-Brown debate has been a staple in Democratic primary politics since the 1980's.

[msongs]

10. bernie and martin can have the event without hillary. nobody is stopping them from doing so. nt

[askew]

11. The DNC is stopping them. If they hold a debate without DNC approval, they are banned from

all future DNC debates.

The glee Hillary supporters are expressing for the DNC changing rules to help out Hillary continues to baffle me. You do realize if your candidate is so pathetic that they can only win the nomination by cheating, that candidate will lose the general right?

There's a reason Dem enthusiasm is at an all-time low for the general election right now. Outside Hillary's die-hard supporters, no one is excited about her. That's why the DNC is cheating to help her.

[Hiraeth]

13. If they don't show up what is Hillary gonna do ... debate herself?

[askew]

14. They'd just cancel the debate which Hillary and the DNC would love.

Hillary doesn't want to have to talk in policy details during the primary because she has already pivoted to the general.

[Hiraeth]

18. I understand she is pivoted to the General but, do you

really think people will vote for someone who does not participate in their own primary?

Does this really make sense?

Doesn't this make it look like she is taking her ball and going home?

[askew]

21. No one knows about the other choices. Only 45% of the country has even heard of O'Malley.

The media is only covering Hillary. What's going to happen is this coronation is going to demoralize everyone outside the diehard Hillary supporters in the general. She's going to lose because she didn't earn any goodwill during the primary season.

[Hiraeth]

22. Yes, I think so. She looks like a spoiled brat. I thought R women would maybe cross over to vote

for her but, Hell To The No. They think Hillary is a BIGGER LIAR than Carly Fiorina.

[askew]

50. Hillary won't get any crossover votes and will struggle with independents.

Add to that the lack of enthusiasm for her, it spells doom in the general election. Best thing that could happen is for the FBI to find something damning on her email server and sink her campaign in the primary. Then, we'd have to electable candidates left ducking it out for the nomination.

[Stryder]

57. And drive

a metric shit ton of repub voters to the polls.
As I understand it, they're not very fond of her.
Not really liking the DNC strategy at this point.
Minimal exposure for our candidates?
Fut the wuck? I'm sure it's some 11th dimension
Jedi mind fuck that we pleebs just don't get.
Yeah, that's it.

[Hiraeth]

58. Actually, the best thing that could happen to her is: she could save face and back out and endorse

one or the other ... naturally, I would prefer Sanders but, if she endorsed O'Malley, fine by me.

[Stryder]

59. And drive

a metric shit ton of repub voters to the polls.
As I understand it, they're not very fond of her.
Not really liking the DNC strategy at this point.
Minimal exposure for our candidates?
Fut the wuck? I'm sure it's some 11th dimension
Jedi mind fuck that we pleebs just don't get.
Yeah, that's it.

[NowSam]

46. Do we really need a pivoting candidate?

Honestly.

But if Sanders and O'Malley go forward and debate without her and then Hillary doesn't have to debate - They should debate without her and put up the empty podium. Might people than draw the conclusion that the empty podium represents an empty candidate?

Ducking debates. Is that the candidate people want for president? Is that a leader?

I don't think it is.

[askew]

52. O'Malley is more than willing to do exactly that. Bernie isn't. That's the problem.

[juxtaposed]

43. ban them and see what the american ppl have to say!

[winter is coming]

12. So put them on different stages.

Seriously, if the Black & Brown forum goes ahead, and makes it clear they've had to alter their format to accommodate new DNC restrictions laid down by one of HRC's '08 campaign co-chairs and Hillary's not there, that's not going to reflect well on her campaign.

[askew]

15. It puts the organizers in the middle of a DNC fight.

The DNC said they can have the event and have it be a lame forum like Rachel did in SC where Hillary got away with a truckload of BS. If the organizers change it back to a debate, Hillary won't attend and Bernie will only attend if the DNC agrees to the rule change. O'Malley is the only one who is willing to debate wherever and whenever regardless of the DNC rules.

[winter is coming]

16. O'Malley's the only one with nothing to lose. n/t

[askew]

19. Sanders's strategy is a loser strategy. He needs the free media as much as O'Malley does.

Right now, the media is treating Hillary as the winner of the Dem nomination and ignoring both Sanders and O'Maley. Had Sanders been smarter and agreed to substantive debates outside of DNC starting this fall like O'Malley wanted, the media wouldn't have been able to ignore them.

[Hiraeth]

25. why is it too late to do that now?

[askew]

54. It should have been done months ago when Hillary was wounded. But, better late than never.

But, I see zero sign that Sanders is courageous enough to actually agree to debate outside of DNC rules.

[Hiraeth]

60. I don't think it matters until after the holidays anyway. Most of America is focused on that.

[winter is coming]

62. That would have worked only if everyone except Hillary agreed to it.

Otherwise, it would have been Hillary debating a couple of no-hopers, and the media would have studiously ignored O'Malley/Sanders debates. They would have gotten less coverage than the GOP kiddie table debates.

[Hiraeth]

20. Yeah, especially when she told those wall street boys to cut it out. That was a real WINNER, alright

and WELCOME TO DU !!

[Jackilope]

27. Don't forget the Guilliani 911 channeling.

Midwesterners and Iowa will look at this pathetic manipulation and see through the smoke and mirrors.

We can do better, or should do better. Not buying into the DNC con game.

[Hiraeth]

30. I REPRESENTED NEW YORK !!!

[kath]

33. She's gone FULL GIULIANI. Invoked 9/11again yesterday, which is at least the 3rd time, IIRC

Anyone keeping a tally of these disgusting occurrances?

[juxtaposed]

44. she's our champion!

[MisterP]

23. that's why she doesn't want any more and fears further exposure!

[BeyondGeography]

49. She did, which is why I find her reluctance to debate more often mind numbingly stupid

Especially in Iowa, where there were four debates in 2007, compared with one this cycle.

[NorthCarolina]

26. Two out of three eligible Dem candidates say "Yes"

That's a Democratic majority in my book.

[Truprogressive85]

28. What are DNC and HC afraid of

But the DNC is not playing favorites

Between Rahm and DWS ,I'm starting to get fed up with the establishment democrats

[jtuck004]

31. So go have it. Lease a room. Leave her a podium, since you aren't afraid. A local

church would let you, perhaps a grange?


No one is standing in the way. Not really.

[roguevalley]

36. retitle it. don't call it a debate. challenge that frizzy haired fascist on her decision

[TIME TO PANIC]

47. frizzy haired fascist

Hilarious!!!

[jtuck004]

64. Or even talk about issues that _are_ important to people's lives. n/t

[restorefreedom]

32. my my, dws is sure earning her keep

she is an embarassment to her so called party and to democracy itself. and if hillary truly had the confidence she is projecting, she would call for this to happen. i mean, if she has a good message, what could there possibly be to be afraid of?

with all the attention the repubs have consistently gotten, the dems should all be clamoring to shout their message from the rooftops at any debate/forum that will have them.

this is ridiculous and embarassing. with behavior like this, the dems almost deserve to lose. at least the repubs are out there. they have a crappy message, but they are selling the crap out of it. and guess what? the american people just might buy it.

[moobu2]

34. Why do you Bernie Sanders supporters want more debates?

I mean, Bernie has performed so badly in all the debates so far. Bernie's campaign and supporters tried to spin the previous debates but there's no doubt whatsoever that Hillary won and that he lost. Bernie does better with very large crowds using his populist catch phrases, offering free stuff without talking about the consequences and using crowd manipulation techniques to get them all worked up into a frenzy over nothing. When he has to answer questions one on one those catch phrases don't go over as well.

[highprincipleswork]

40. Why doesn't Hillary want more? We do because it's right and it's more illuminating and democratic.

I would think that the inflexible, brute DNC tactics would appeal to no one. But apparently I'm wrong. Some are content to allow the appearance of a rigged system, which has been commented on by journalists from all sides of the political spectrum, as if that's perfectly fine and doesn't hurt the result. I guess the fact that it appears to benefit a particular candidate makes it perfectly alright.

There are no good reasons being put forward for such a lousy debate schedule, or for changing the time-honored tradition of this event. The only ones that make sense point to the obvious position that this kind of system makes it easier and less risk-prone for the frontrunner with the name recognition.

She (and her supporters) should be bending over backwards to eliminate bad feelings and appearances of a rigged system, especially if they are so sure she is the superior candidate, doing better, and destined to win. Especially if they don't want those bad feelings to carry over after the nomination process into the General.

But No. I don't see any indication of anything of that kind of coming together as a party or as a fair nominating process. Nice team-building is all I can say.

[moobu2]

55. If Bernie was ahead THAT MUCH

and he didn't want to participate in any more debates than the rules call for, I bet him AND his supporters would have a different perspective.

[highprincipleswork]

61. What rules?

[Capt. Obvious]

63. Exactly

Clinton is doing Bernie a solid here by not embarrassing him further. No need to gild the lily. Bernie supporters should be grateful at her high minded generosity.

[highprincipleswork]

37. Fear plus unnecessary power plays

Not a good combination.

Don't know why it isn't clear to everyone that Hillary mostly cares about Hillary. She wants to win at all costs, not an entirely bad drive, but if it means stepping all over a large percentage of the Democratic base and altering rules of the game just to suit her?

I don't think she is going to have too much enthusiasm on-hand, IF she wins this thing.
And I think it's entirely conceivable she will not.

[Jackilope]

38. What's the matter, McFly, er... HRC/DWS?

Chicken????????!

Actually, we already know that answer. Couldn't resist.

[retrowire]

39. Hillary supporters will say

that she's doing the strategic and smart thing to avoid being torn down by competitors.

Anything it takes to win! Integrity and compassion be damned!

[Eric J in MN]

69. K & R (NT)

NT

[jfern]

72. She thinks she owns blacks

[askew]

85. If Bernie was willing to go negative, he'd just air a greatest hits from the 2008 campaign

showing all the race-baiting her and her campaign engaged in against Obama.

[JDPriestly]

76. Hillary is afraid that African-Americans and Spanish-speaking voters will see how much better

Bernie Sanders is than she is.

[askew]

83. Well, O'Malley is by far the best candidate on immigration/refugee/Latino issues.

It's been his signature issue for over a decade and he has a laundry list of accomplishments showing how much better he is on these issues over Bernie and Hillary. Both Bernie and Hillary have flip-flopped on immigration/refugee issues. I think Bernie is better than Hillary on immigration/refugee issues, but he is still far behind O'Malley.

As for AA issues including criminal justice reform, all of the candidates have a mixed record. I would say that O'Malley and Bernie are tied on that issue. Hillary is by far the worst on that issue.

I do think Hillary is ducking these issues which is why she hasn't released an immigration or criminal justice reform issue.

[Kalidurga]

77. Well I have no problem with the event being altered to a town hall event.

I have no problem with Hillary not showing up. Both Bernie and Martin are really good at town hall events, the crowd loves them when they are more casual. Hillary has a harder time going casual. So, great play to their strengths. Go on without the star no one will miss her.

[askew]

82. It's not a townhall event. It's a stupid forum event like Rachel's which allowed Hillary to

sit there and lie unchallenged for 30 minutes. It was a complete waste of time. It will also get 1/10th the media coverage that a debate would get. These issues are too important and not addressed in the main debates in enough detail to be relegated to a 30-minute stump speech like Hillary gave at Rachel's forum.

[BlueStateLib]

78. 2008 Democrats Debate At The Iowa Brown And Black Presidential Forum

Its a forum not a debate
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/01/democrats-debate-at-the-i_n_74960.html

[askew]

84. It's a debate. It's always been a debate. They can call it a forum, but all candidates are on

stage together and debating on another. This time, the candidates will appear onstage 1 by 1 because Hillary is a delicate flower who needs Debbie Wasserman-Schultz to fix the nomination race for her.

[CoffeeCat]

79. Hillary Clinton attended Black Brown debate with Obama, Edwards, etc in 2008...

These games are really pathetic.

If you don't want to show up in public, debate, answer questions, stand on the same stage as your political opponents, discuss your views and defend your stances and policies--then maybe you shouldn't be running for President.

Link to 2008 article about the Black Brown debate in Des Moines. All Democratic primary candidates participated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/01/democrats-debate-at-the-i_n_74960.html

[askew]

81. Yep, and in 2008 when she was losing to Obama both she and her pal, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz,

went on tv and said the DNC rules should not decide the nomination and Obama owed it to the people to debate more.

The media is covering up for her and Debbie's lying again and her supporters are blindly supporting her BS. It's sad. I'd be embarassed to support a candidate like Hillary. She stands for nothing but her own power.