Has anybody in the forum changed any other DU'ers mind on anything?

[snooper2]

Or is this just an echo chamber for the two sides?

[NurseJackie]

1. What? (What, what, what, what, ....?)

[reformist2]

58. It is funny that this thread has become a haven for Hillary supporters!

[hrmjustin]

2. Echooooooooooo!

[madokie]

3. At one point in time

i thought that the sun rose and set in Hillary's ass but after reading here about her and about Bernie my mind was totally changed. So the answer to your question is a resounding YES
for me anyway.

I will be voting for the dem candidate in the general and I expect that person to be none other than Bernie Sanders.

[AtomicKitten]

4. Yes, DU has changed my political POV dramatically over my 10 years here.

When I signed on in 2005, I was a rabid Clinton supporter, as obnoxious as any of them today. I stuck my fingers in my ears and would not hear anything negative about them. I bought the Clinton version of everything hook, line, and sinker.

But I started reading the links provided and went on to do my own research. I was appalled at the reality I refused to entertain before, that both Clintons have zero ethical standards and are decidedly rightwing in their ideology as reflected in their policy positions. They have moved the party so far to the right and are virtually indistinguishable from their counterparts on many policy issues.

So, I would like to publicly thank the progressives here at DU, the true bedrock Democrats in my eyes, for their patience with me and appreciate the education I have received.

[Attorney in Texas]

5. O'Malley used to be my 3rd choice, and Clinton my second choice, and that order is flipped now in

part because of the discussion here.

[JaneyVee]

6. RED DELICIOUS APPLES! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! AMERICA DESERVES BETTER!

AMERICA TODAY IS PLAGUED BY THE DECEPTIVELY NAMED "RED DELICIOUS" APPLE—THICKSKINNED, MEALY, DISGRACEFUL—YET FED TO OUR CHILDREN EVERY DAY! NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

[Buzz Clik]

7. I've been convinced of a few things:

1) The Bernie crowd has nearly convinced me to never consider voting for him. But, I quickly shake it off as just these people acting badly and not at the behest of Sanders.

2) Those who rail against the solid science that refutes whatever position they hold have convinced me that those people are totally ignorant. My favorite quote, from someone claiming to be a science teacher, "I don't care what the science says! I know what I believe." The Kansas Board of Education is looking for people like that...

3) The knuckledraggers who roam this place with their "moles" are not nearly as clever as they think they are.

[NCTraveler]

8. One poster here completely changed my thought process...

With respect to criminal sentencing. Another has greatly changed how I view feminism. There is more but those are some of the more drastic areas of change.

[Ryano42]

9. I am now more convinced all three would make a fine President...

What I have really learned here is to what lengths people will go to slam their fellow Democrats...

[Vinca]

10. Some of the Hillary people appear to view Bernie supporters as the enemy.

I don't get it. Especially when Bernie supporters would have to show up and vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. If they stay home, Hillary's toast.

[winter is coming]

18. In general, some people are very focused on groups.

Are you in the group? Do you belong? Are you one of us?

Being able to categorize people is very important to them. They're unsettled if they can't discern whether someone "belongs", and often display hostility toward people who aren't part of their group or eager to join it.

They don't see a lot of greys, and life is about labels, allies, and enemies.

Other folks do things differently.

[reddread]

31. the story of power is told by their allies

following the actions instead of words, watching their friends activities and associations, that tells the most.
its a cabal.
and people approve?
American people?
wake me up.

[MoonRiver]

11. I think less of Bernie Sanders

after reading many of his supporters' posts.

[Live and Learn]

14. That is a more than a bit ridiculous. nt

[MoonRiver]

38. Not if you assume that supporters tend to reflect the philosophy of their "hero."

I'm sure Bernie loves these divisive posts against his rival. He has not denounced them.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

44. It has to be crippling to need to judge a person based on how you perceive others.

Weird.

[Live and Learn]

45. Am I then to assume that all Hillary supporters now approve of the IWR? nt

[mythology]

57. You think that Sanders has time to read DU while running for president?

I can't imagine what would make you think that is the case.

But also do you not hold Clinton to the same standard? There has been plenty of crap thrown by Clinton supporters. She hasn't denounced that.

[notadmblnd]

30. That's just a poor excuse for continuing to go along with those you think

are part of your group.

There's are some pretty ugly people in the HRC group too but that's not why I don't support her. And if you do support someone as callous and cold as HRC and her fellow supporters, there's no way you can claim to be so sensitive to the ugliness of a few Sander's supporters to the point of holding him responsible.

Sanders is no more responsible for his supporter's behavior than Clinton is for the ugliness displayed by a few of her supporters here.

[MoonRiver]

37. It's not the only reason I don't support him, for your information.

[notadmblnd]

39. That's not what you said in your post

What is your other reason? The old it's time for a woman, reason? Or maybe it's "her turn"?

[MoonRiver]

40. I don't like his support for the gun industry and I think he is a phony.

There's no way he can bring about his 40 year pie in the sky promises. Been there, done that with bogus promises. I'm sticking with Hillary who best reflects my realistic, liberal views. Oh, and you can probably save your "breath" by not trying to argue me out of my position, LOL.

[notadmblnd]

42. I wouldn't think of trying to talk you out of supporting her

I just think your excuse that the ugly things some his supporters say about HRC is what has influenced you- is disingenuous. You think Sanders is a phoney. Do you really think HRC is not a phoney? LOL that one made me laugh.

I see. So, you don't like Sanders stance on guns, but you support endless wars. What? You think being blown to bits by bombs is kinder and gentler than bullets? You don't like when fellow Americans are murdered by guns, but you're good with the rest of your fellow man dying by bombs and bullets?

As I said your excuses are disingenuous. But feel free to tell yourself what ever it is you need to tell yourself to get through it.

[MoonRiver]

46. Get through what?

I'm completely confident Hillary will win the primary. The general will be closer but she's still ahead of all the idiots.

[notadmblnd]

50. Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through

this election cycle and vote for HRC.

I think she'll lose the GE because all the rest of the "idiots" will come out in mass to vote for one of those idiots because they despise HRC more than they dislike the idiots in the current republican clown car. I also think that the Dems that don't care for HRC will stay away from the polls as they did in 2010. HRC does not have the power to pull republicans away from those idiots. I believe Sanders can and will.

People are tired of the same old thing (getting poorer while the rich get richer). Most thought with Obama that there would be real change and outside of Gay Marriage and the ACA, there really hasn't been any change for the better for the average person.

Guantanamo is still open, incarceration rates are still climbing. Marijuana is still viewed as illegal by the Federal Government. Next to nothing accomplished in resolving immigration. Women are still being denied their right to choose to make their own medical decisions. Guns sales are astronomical and we're even more involved in the Middle East than before. The poor are still getting poorer while the rich are still getting richer. And it will stay that way with HRC.

[MoonRiver]

54. All of that is Your Humble Opinion, of course.

I know Hillary has a fight ahead in the general election, but I still think there are more sane than insane people in this country and she will win. I have NO concerns about her winning the primary. Carry on.

[notadmblnd]

55. Of course, as this is your opinion.

time will tell.

[MoonRiver]

59. Yep

[Andy823]

12. I am still for O'Malley

No matter how much basing goes on, and there is a lot, I will vote for the nominee no matter which on of the three it is, although I prefer O'Malley.

[ibegurpard]

13. Nope

But there sure are s lot of DUers I wouldn't mind popping in the mouth.

[Live and Learn]

15. Ain't that the truth?

[Warren DeMontague]

16. No

[reddread]

17. steve leser

I thought he was serious

[ibegurpard]

19. boom

/endthread

[kath]

62. bwah!

[wildeyed]

20. Um, kind of. It probably was just called GD back then.

I stopped in early in the primary season, before I had really decided who to support, and read a "pro"-Sanders thread that made a vein pop in my eyeball about how you could only be a real liberal if you liked Sanders best. I actually posted a pissed off reply. I dunno. I think part of being liberal is not telling other people the rules for being liberal. And I also don't like people telling me what to do. It shaded my thoughts on the candidate a bit. But not recently. I am no longer a persuadable voter. I have decided. So has anyone who actually posts here. It's all in good fun.

Welcome to GD: Fight Club. Hit me as hard as you can.

[Beacool]

21. I doubt it.

That's why I don't understand why the constant insults and rudeness are necessary. Either side preaches to its own choir. Nothing that the Sanders side says will change my vote for Hillary and the reverse is also true.

Therefore, both groups should be a little more tolerant of the other.

[MeNMyVolt]

22. Not in regards to the primaries, but the AA group has made me better person. nt

[reddread]

23. people rarely get paid to change their minds

PR consultants and contracted commentators are dogged and intractible, they
do not honestly engage questions or issues raised, simply repeat the company line ad naus.
with the interesting exception of those who feigned support for the opposition in order to jump
ship publically at the first chance. That is so adorably cute and obvious, its kinda sad and mad
to think it fools anyone. Its as if high school kids were providing strategy.

in the end, they will know they needed a better game.
America is fed up with that and wiser today than yesterday.

[CoffeeCat]

53. Spot-on analysis

It is glaringly obvious that there is a contingent of paid posters on DU.

You are correct in your analysis that these people are not here to change hearts and minds. They are here to disseminate talking points and to ensure that their candidate is positioned as relevant and supported. They are here to prop up an illusion.

What I find so silly about this PR effort, is that the effect--across the Internet--is that they drive away people from the candidate. Their tactics have a "sorority girl" feel to them. These people are not kind; they are not engaging and authentic. I suppose this is because their posts are a paid gig; not genuine, passionate support.

The ultimate PR irony is that these types of tactics end up having the opposite effect that the payee intended. More people turn from, and not toward, the candidate or cause.

The ultimate example of this is the BP FB page, after the oil-spill disaster. Clusters of BP fake fans and devotees descended on anyone who dared to criticize BP--after they caused one of the worst environmental disasters in history.

These posters were paid to create the illusion of BP support and to bully and mock those who were concerned about the environmental damage and the suffering of the wildlife due to the oil and Corexit poison that BP dumped into the Gulf.

Did any of these faux BP posters truly spread goodwill or create a favorable image of BP in anyone? No. Paid posters are not paid to make friends. They're paid to build false narratives and bully detractors into giving up. In the end, BP's image is still marred beyond repair.

BP continues to avoid accountability. Tar balls still wash up on beaches. Dolphins, fish, turtles and birds still suffer and die due to BP. BP has not paid the bill for the damages and they never will. Yet they paid millions to a PR agency to silence the voices of those who truly cared about the Gulf, its wildlife and the people who eat the fish and shrimp that live in those waters.

Don't paid posters ever contemplate the larger consequences of lying to the public? Do they ever ask themselves what this says about the company or the politician who pays for support that doesn't exist? Is this truly beneficial to democracy to foment false narratives and fake fans for someone who wants to be the leader of the free world? Shouldn't that kind of support be earned and not faked? And isn't it dangerous to help elect a candidate who cannot organically grow genuine support and defenders on their own--and instead is forced to pay people to create the appearance of support?

If you are interested further info on this topic, here is a link to an article from a person who says he was paid to leverage Clinton by bashing Sanders.
https://timothybertrand.wordpress.com/2015/11/16/an-alleged-hillary-shill-talks-about-being-paid-to-smear-bernie-sanders/

[reddread]

60. do people destroy ecosystems?

petroleum does.
there is a deep pile of money out there, willing to protect itself.
why do they hire idiots?

[Sunlei]

24. yes, that Sanders needs money more then Mrs. Clinton so everyone can hear what he has to say.

I may not vote in primary for Senator Sanders but he has been and will be where my donations go this election season.

Mrs.Clinton must listen more to what Senator Sanders says, and they must team-up.

[99Forever]

25. Yes.

Things said to me have made me more adamant as to who I will and won't support.

[reddread]

26. interesting effect isnt it?

either a high school dropout is calling the tune on strategy, or something else is the goal.
seeing how divide and conquer is the oldest game since open whoring, I suppose they are
a familiar pair.

[99Forever]

28. For me it's the repitition that has clinched it.

I got over the neoliberal game when we were kicked to the curb by Obama, right after he USED us to get into office. I'll be damned if I'm ever that fucking gullible again. And the same crap tactics being used by the neoliberals yet again, have only served to make me more determined.

[reddread]

29. "worked last time"

its our fault.

[RiverLover]

48. This ^^^^

[merrily]

27. DU has changed my mind--and/or given me more info to work with--on a number of things.

Has not changed my mind about Sanders or Hillary, though. If anything, the more I know, the more firm my opinions about each of them become.

[berni_mccoy]

32. Mostly an echo chamber for the political junkies with some influence over others

I remember the mass-Exodus from Edwards during 2008. There was a group mind trending on it before all was actually known.

There have been other times of pivotal influence.

Also, I think DU had a pivotal change in direction toward Obama in March os 2008.

It requires an external event or series of events, but DU can have an impact.

[Recursion]

33. elleng turned me on to O'Malley (nt)

[TIME TO PANIC]

34. Yes.

I use to think it was only the politicians who were responsible for moving our party so far to the right, but many members here on DU voice right-wing opinions. I've read several Hillary supporters complain about slight tax increases and one even defend private prisons. I'm sure most of her supporters don't share those views, but it is still disturbing.

[Kalidurga]

35. Yes

I used to be a lot more hawkish. I always thought war was a terrible necessity. Now I think it's just tragic. Even if you have a good reason to go to war ie you are attacked it will end up with multiple tragedies on both sides. I used to think we spent too much on our war machine, but not I see that spending as abandoning our children and our security withing our own borders. I don't see anyway of protecting people from events like San Bernandino. But, instead of having troops everywhere but here I think we should have some patrols within our borders to discourage terrorists from hitting public soft targets.

Also on guns. Some people might think they need a gun to protect themselves from RWNJs. I am convinced that there are far too many RWNJs. I used to think they were a rare breed, 25% of the 30% that call themselves Republicons or CONservatives. Now I am not so sure they are rare. Far too many cheer about gun sales going up when a mass shooting occurs and that is here not at some CONservative website.

PS I will most likely 90% sure I will never ever own a gun. But, I can see why some people even liberal people might think it's a good idea. I never understood before why someone would think that.

[Hepburn]

36. Yes.

I was pro-Hillary at the very beginning. I then took a look at Sander and liked him better. Neutral on Hillary and no dislike for her after deciding to support Sanders.

Then I started seeing the conduct of the HRC supporters -- especially toward a long-time DUer who was banned -- and began to genuinely dislike Hillary because she seemed to inspire so much negativity.

JMHO

[GusBob]

41. Oh yeah big time changes

Eye- opening and mind-blowing at times

[DisgustipatedinCA]

43. Sanders made a couple of users pretend they were for him before they were against him.

Does that count?

[raouldukelives]

47. Sure, I used to think I was a moderate liberal.

But hanging out here, I feel like an uber one.

[RiverLover]

49. LOL

Me too.

[PowerToThePeople]

51. I think less of Hillary Clinton

due to the posts by her supporters on this board.

[hrmjustin]

52. No matter how much I dislike what Sanders supporters say about Hillary I still...

... think the world of Bernie Sanders.

[sibelian]

56. Occasionally.

It's not very common.

[TheFarseer]

61. it's not the guy yelling at me I'm trying to convince

I'll never convince him. It's the guy reading the argument and not posting.