Has Obama made the economy better or worse?

[neurochaos]

The right-wing jerks on Topix will try and push this poll to reflect Rush Limbaugh’s drug induced fantasy of hoping for President Obama’s failure.

Please go vote:
http://www.topix.com/issue/obamas-economy

[Lionessa]

1. Better for the top 10% and big banks and corps, for the rest of us ... worse.

[Lionessa]

6. Quality of jobs is dive bombed, the only area showing true monetary improvement is the top.

Which is entirely what a FRer would want, not me. I'm on the left side of the anti-Obama administration.

[JoePhilly]

9. Between you and FR... perhaps both might get their wish.

[Lionessa]

13. I have no problem being honest in my comments and also

voting sensibly when the time comes.

Some apparently do, just not me.

[Alexander]

43. What does "voting sensibly" mean?

Just curious.

[JTFrog]

45. I can't help but think of this:

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x829760

[Alexander]

64. I love it when DUers who are clearly not Democrats try to fly just below the radar.

Sooner or later, they all slip up and eat granite.

Do you remember saracat? She was here for quite some time, sewing dissent. A very obvious PUMA, she finally got banned.

[Lionessa]

48. Exactly what it says.

[Alexander]

63. Got it. A very thinly-veiled statement that you will not be voting for the Democratic nominee.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Can you cut the personal attacks?

If your opinion has merit than you can win on the merits.

[Ikonoklast]

30. That poster replied to came right out and stated that they were "anti-Obama administration".

Unlike you, at least they put their true opinion right out there.


One used to be banned for coming straight out and saying that they were against the Democratic president on a supposed Democratic-supporting site.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. First time I've been accused of hiding my true opinion!

Thanks for playing.

[Ikonoklast]

37. Unlike you, I don't 'play'.

I don't see politics as some sort of game, unlike too many others here.

[MannyGoldstein]

38. How do you feel about the three Bush "free" trade bills

that Obama pushed through in November? Which are projected to eliminate hundreds of thousands of American jobs?

I don't think of that as a game - real 99%ers will really suffer, not a game at all. What do you think of it as?

[Ikonoklast]

40. Show me your numbers, because there are others that contraindicate what you claim.

There will be job losses in some sectors, but there will be gains in others, and there are protections written into those trade agreements that were never included in NAFTA.

If NAFTA and CAFTA had those protections, the current jobs loss numbers would be dramatically different.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. From EPI,

Heading South - U.S.-Mexico trade and job displacement after NAFTA:

"Growing U.S.–Korea trade deficits are likely to displace an additional 159,000 U.S. jobs in the first seven years after
the agreement takes effect (Scott 2010a), based on the terms of KORUS, as originally negotiated. Based on Schott’s 2010
analysis, and the additional data reviewed here, that estimate is, if anything, likely to be conservative. Like NAFTA, the
KORUS FTA is likely to result in growing U.S. trade deficits and job displacement, especially in the motor vehicles and
parts and the computer and electronics parts industries."

Richard Trumka opined:

"Working people know what too many politicians apparently do not—these deals will be bad for jobs, workers’ rights and our economy."

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

42. "banned for coming straight out and saying that they were against the Democratic president"

Say...President Obama's ears become precisely tuned to Leon Panetta's words, regarding "terrorists are terrorists" and Iranian boogey-men, am I to assume, that you would march right like along behind...?

[Ikonoklast]

46. Straw men, three for a dollar.

I don't pretend to know the president's thoughts on Iran, but he just recently said he was all for using whatever diplomatic means at his disposal in regards to Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Unless you'd rather believe Dinner Jacket about his intentions, and the religious loons running that country, yes, I'll throw in my support on this issue with this president.

And yes, please point me to where posters weren't banned from stating that they were anti-Obama or anti-Democratic administration on this site before...the ban hammer used to come down from on high on those posters in a heartbeat.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

52. Fair Enough...This Is An Economic Corridor. Still, You Appeared To Be Making A Pretty Wide Swing,

and Leon makes me nervous.

Narrowing the range to economic matters...did you support "Obama's" wide sweeping, $900 billion tax cut bill that extended Bush era tax policy?

Obviously, there are some good things--earned income tax credits, $1,000-per-child tax credit, tax breaks for college students, etc. And even some of the low cap-gain rates are useful. However, in a yellow flag economy, all encompassing low cap-gain rates tend to funnel capital into more safe and conservative sectors, sucking the vitality from other areas.

Do you believe that economic policy of 2008 thru 2010 is the best that a Democratic controlled legislature and a Democratic President can do?

[MineralMan]

57. If you're 'anti-Obama,' you'll have four more years

to rail against him. Sorry.

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Ah, the new DU, where personal attacks are kewl.

Marvelous.

[Number23]

14. I have an entire family of folks on both coasts of the USA that would vehemently

disagree with you.

But we're all "morons," remember?

[Lionessa]

15. And of course we know nothing about you, you

may "quality" connections, you may be part of the 10%, or you may just be one of the luckier groups for some reason. Just do a search on DU, there are legit articles discussing the lower quality of wages, bennies, full-time hours, and such. Most I know are suffering that, fortunately I'm the only one in my direct family experiencing it, but the others are stagnant at best considering the increase in fuel and food and like necessary products.

[Number23]

20. Nope, I'm just an average American

I've had to send money home to help my grandmother not lose her house. I've had to listen to my relatives' agony over not having health insurance and their joy over finding a job or having a child start college just like everyone else.

But my family is a black family, and since you openly referred to blacks as the "morons of politics" for our support of the president, I just thought you should know that your characterization that the president has not done anything for anyone other than the "top 10%" is not a characterization shared by many people of all economic levels and especially not the bottom rung.

[Lionessa]

22. WTF is your deal, I've never said anything like what you're saying. I'm not exactly caucasian

So stop the BS.

Back to the idea at hand, I believe the President's financial and economic decisions to date have been wrong for most Americans, as have the decisions of the past 5-6 Presidents, and btw, those decisions, based on what I've read have been especially harmful to blacks, with both higher unemployment and higher incarceration (many of which are entirely bogus). So please tell me how being black and worshiping the status quo is a good thing for those you claim I'm not caring about?

[Number23]

25. The only BS is your belief that no one black here remembers what you wrote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=829760&mesg_id=829875

But I can certainly understand why you are pretending that you didn't. Your post calling us that was deleted but unfortunately for you, you decided that calling black people the "morons of politics" was not bad enough and did a follow up OP criticizing us even further.

This is not the kind of thing that anyone here will forget.

[Lionessa]

26. So I'm not allowed to have an opinion about the facts of lives vs

the spin and pressure being put on those same folks to toe a line for a President that's not helping minorities?

Wow, you sure mis-interpret and spin very well.

I will not be a minority that blindly supports a President that isn't helping us, and I'll continue to find ways to jiggle, nudge, and jostle others to recognizing their need to continue to speak out. Sorry that bothers your sensibilities.

[Number23]

27. "I will not be a minority that blindly supports a President that isn't helping us"

No one cares if you support this president. But your decision to use racially charged and offensive language towards black people because many of us do is the problem.

And if you notice the responses to your post, no one misinterpreted anything. You were handed your behind as you should have been. I'm assuming that is why you never returned to the thread. But it fascinates me that someone who obviously feels as you do about minorities still posts here at all.

[Lionessa]

29. You are intentionally misrepresenting. Nothing I can do about that.

I will continue to speak out on both our behalves whether you like it or not.

Average American minorities, be they colored or women or have a non-hetero orientation, have not gained in any meaningful way through both Dem and Repub administrations. That's factual, wage disparity, incarcerations, stop-n-detain for no reason, health care availability, voting availability, all of these things are still under attack and black men are taking the brunt of it from anything I've read. So I'm shocked at your willingness to accept the status quo.

And as far as the language, sometimes the point of language is to be remembered, thank you for pointing out that my post is still remembered, whether you agree with the premise or not.

[Number23]

31. Oh no, no, no

I will continue to speak out on both our behalves whether you like it or not.

I have no interest WHATSOEVER in you speaking out on my behalf. NONE. Not that I think you'd have the capacity or ability to do so anyway.

And yes, your post is remembered. For all of the wrong reasons in which it was posted. But I'm not surprised in the least that you couldn't care less. And I'm sure that no one else will be either.

[Ruby the Liberal]

44. Ah - so this was the 'blacks are morons' member

I had forgotten the username.

Much makes sense now.

Thanks.

[Number23]

49. Indeed it is, Ruby

And as you can see, not only does she not have the slightest bit of remorse for her offensive and racist comments, she has actually decided she will be speaking on my "behalf" and on behalf of other minorities. Can't tell if it's just on this board or in the nation at large but either way, the prospect is terrifying.

Because apparently, we need a champion. Even if it's one that has no respect for us whatsoever and thinks that we are "morons" incapable of "critical thought" with "limited and skewed lives."

I'd laugh if this weren't so tragic.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. This entire thread reads much differently now. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

58. WoW! I hadn't seen that. Imagine my shock that the poster is still allowed to post here.

The New DU is a little bit racist, huh?

[Number23]

61. I'm surprised by little that happens here anymore

But even I am shocked that she is still here.

The New DU is a little bit racist, huh?

It would appear a bit more than just a little bit.

[Tarheel_Dem]

62. "It would appear a bit more than just a little bit."

Sorta sounds like the Ron Paul apologists who pop up from time to time. I laugh out loud at them on the radio call in shows, when they claim to be this ultra left liberal who "worked hard & voted for Obama in 2008", and are "sorely disappointed in Obama", only to endorse Ron Paul by the end of the call.


It's a tactic, even if it isn't a very effective one.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. All you have to do is look at the jobs reports...

The month Obama took office, the United State lost roughly 800,000 jobs. By the end of '09, that was down to 'only' 85,000.

If he made the economy worse, doesn't it suggest that, you know, the jobs situation would have progressively gotten worse the further into his term we went?

[Lionessa]

7. That's not all, we need also to look at income quality. It doesn't help much when

people who used to make 50K-100K are now barely making $10 an hour. It doesn't help. And no, not all people are experiencing this drastic a drop, but most are reporting real income disparity compared to their pre-unemployment time. Meaning two things, Americans aren't really doing better, and the taxes gained from the unfairly taxed lower and middle classes won't improve much and the rich to date are still able to hide, write-off, and every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share.

Sorry, we can't JUST look at the jobs report, imo.

[JoePhilly]

10. Where is your link ??

Got some data?

Or should we all just stay home in 2012??

[Lionessa]

17. Again, I am capable of seeing reality, commenting on it,

and still make wisest possible choice when in the voting booth. I will not however make a requirement of my vote that I put my head in the sand.

If you pay attention at all to DU, you'll find a link. It truly isn't my job to educate those that give no indication of really wanting an answer.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Can you put up the same graphs from other recessions?

Could be informative.

Also - why include only private sector jobs?

[DCBob]

21. no other recession compares to this one.

this is the first "Great Recession".

[MannyGoldstein]

23. The data should show that.

So it should still be informative.

Perhaps compare the recovery from the previous depression? What happened when FDR took the helm?

[DCBob]

24. Let the opposition do that if they want.

I think it will fall flat. People see obvious improvement and the President gets the credit.

[Drunken Irishman]

51. Sure...

Here's a similar chart for the '01 recession that dominated Bush's first term:



You'll see this was over a similar stretch (from the beginning of Bush's first term to February of his election year). Most of that was spent with zero job growth, even though the losses sustained early in his presidency come nowhere near to the level seen in the first few months of Obama's first year.

We've seen positive job growth for essentially two straight years now. That didn't happen until '04-'05 for Bush - or, into his second term.

[MannyGoldstein]

53. Good point. nt

[DCBob]

18. This graph needs to be mailed to every voter in America.

That would guarantee his re-election.. imo.

[virgogal]

4. Better as far as my family is concerned.

[RC]

5. Just Jobs? Or Living-Wage-Jobs?

All we hear about are Just Jobs.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

8. Regrettably, People Who Grew up Watching Too Much TV

Last edited Mon Feb 6, 2012, 08:56 PM - Edit history (1)

think the President has control over the economy--he does not.

There is quite a bit of evidence that suggests that low cap-gain rates extend the number of laps it takes for the green flag to reappear, when an economy is running under the caution flag. But the rates are today, what they were in 2008.

TARP and the stimulus did very little, or nothing to help either. Government funded bailouts of private corporations is not sound economic policy.

But the Executive does not make policy; that power is vested in the Legislature.

During Obama's first two years, the Democratic controlled Legislature could have done more--a whole lot more. But they were too busy playing blame games with Republicans regarding the mortgage lending problems and the overall financial meltdown. There was plenty of blame to go around, but "blame" is not sound economic policy.

[DCBob]

16. Better without a doubt..

especially as compared to what the Republicans wanted to do.. which was essentially nothing.

[TBF]

28. As bad as it is I think it would've been worse under McCain/Dingbat -

but I do think he missed an opportunity to do more early in his tenure. Taxes need to be raised substantially (particularly on the highest 1% - they have stolen all the money), and the wars need to end.

[Lionessa]

32. Can't argue that, any of it.

[hay rick]

33. The only praise on the economy that Obama deserves.

McCain would have been worse.

Obama has been a great friend to the 1%.

[TBF]

35. And Romney or Paul will be even worse than McCain -

Romney is clueless about how 99% of the country lives, and Paul is living in the 1800s in his head. Obama is definitely the right choice and I hope Occupy will keep the pressure on. The problem with capitalism is that the president in many ways functions as an administrator for the folks who own everything. Labor needs to fight back - rebuild the unions, sit-down strikes, etc... The only thing we have is our labor to withhold, so let's do it.

[woo me with science]

55. Yup,

and that is by design.

Part of the beauty of purchasing TWO parties is that you can put forth two candidates, one of whom who will move toward corporate slavery and the other of whom will SPEED toward corporate slavery, and the masses will vote to move toward corporate slavery.

Occupy. It has never been more important.

[Honeycombe8]

36. Site wouldn't work for me. No way to vote. Just see results. Bummer. nt

[baldguy]

39. We've got the car off the tree & out of the ditch - where the GOP left it

and got it back onto the road.

But there's still a lot of work left to do to get it fixed up again.

[Nah7anyule]

47. the blind can feel Mit and Newts change in their pockets

What do you think happened? President Obama has a plan and the republicans are just going to let him carry it out? Wouldnt that mean the republicans are not elected in 2010 like when Obama gave Bail out money to companies that funneled lots of that money into republican campaigne coffers? Or when the republicans voted against the job act which would have created jobs all across america while repairing infrastructure?, but instead want to pass the building of the keystone pipeline which would be built mostly by people that already have jobs who work for companies like Haliburton which many republicans have stock in? And the whole time in the primaries theyre both saying he failed to create jobs but not telling the people that they havent introduced one bill to create real jobs themselves.. Dont be blind. I think against one hell of a regime of republicans Obama is still coming out on top.

[Showrunner]

54. Let's be honest...

Neither Obama nor the economy had a prayer after what Paulson and Company did to it. Add a divided Congress and a Presidential election cycle...and it truly couldn't have been fixed if God Himself brought His tool belt. Best of luck to all of us in "The Second Half". Hurry, Hurry, Hurry...This 3-Ringer Ain't Done Yet! Thoughts at 3 A.M. http://thoughtsatthreeam.blogspot.com/?spref=tw

[MineralMan]

56. Better. It takes time to recover from GOP administrations.

Also, the obstructionism of the GOP Congress has slowed things down even more.

[Beacool]

59. Wow, this question has caused a free for all.

[neurochaos]

60. I only posted this question...

to get my beloved DUer's to blunt the right-wing assault of negative votes on TOPIX... Never did i think that it would get this kind of a response, especially on here. Nevertheless, please vote here:

http://www.topix.com/issue/obamas-economy