The last former Secretary of State to be elected president -

[Beowulf]

James Buchanan. He also served in the House and Senate, as ambassador to Russia and the U.K. He also declined a nomination to the Supreme Court. He was thought at the time to be be one of the most qualified candidates ever to run for president. Historians often regard him as one of the worst presidents. Just saying, something to think about.

[SCantiGOP]

1. Just saying

.....or something

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You cannot nor should you compare that president/former sos with Hillary.

They are completely different people, from different eras.

There is nothing to think about.

And I say this, being a Sanders supporter.

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. The last Social Democrat to be eleted president was, never...

But I am willing to see either Clinton or Sanders as President.

[Blanks]

4. The first Secretary of State...

To become president was Thomas Jefferson. That worked out ok.

[MADem]

7. It sure did--and he had baggage, too! nt

[daybranch]

24. Jefferson wrote a lot about possible oppression by the president before he took office

and is remembered in this way, but too often forgotten is his hypocrisy in his views regarding slavery and most pertinent here is his consolidation of power after he became President. History makes it sound like he was a great hero, when in reality few people of the one percent at that time served in the military and usually took great steps to protect themselves and their property. you need to find out what our most remembered and glorified founders did and why they did it. You do know George Washington married a very rich widow merged her wealth with his, spent enormous sums and believed the purchases were ripoffs in price by the English. Do you know that he was angry because because he was not promoted by the English for his service in the French and Indian War and did not get the lands he expected afterward as reward for his service? Do you know he was deeply in debt mainly when he became commander of the revolutionary army, but by the end of the war he emerged as the richest man in America? Did you know what he did as President regarding the Shays rebellion? Did you know the draconian punishments he inflicted on the lower ranking soldiers and the luxuries lavished on his officers in terms of accommodations, food, and pay? Do you know documents, to support all I said still exist from the days these occurred?
My point is, get educated and think and learn,. Do not accept blindly what you are taught. Right now this concept of real history not obfuscation of the manipulation of the people by the rich to fight in the Civil War is coming out as symbols of slavery and racial oppression are removed from public areas. The same thing has happened about the revolution and the socialist activities i the US.

But your belief that Jefferson worked out okay, just reminds me that Jefferson was greatly trusted but he abandoned his promises when he became president as a supporter of his 1 percent class. Thanks for reminding me why i support Bernie rather than Hillary.
Consistency, integrity,and not changing positions nor negotiating for the oligarchy or accepting donations from them. Thanks for your wrong but thought provoking comment. Much of what i have said is covered in Howard Zinn's great book "The People's History of the United States". You could really learn a lot, it seems.

[Blanks]

28. I spent a fair amount of time on Facebook...

Reading how some guy had read 'The Monster of Jekyll Island' and it shaped his views of the FED. He was constantly telling everyone how stupid they are (much like you're doing) for not actively trying to bring down the FED.

Obviously, I unfriended his stupid ass from Facebook, because I'm educated enough to know that one can't base their entire world philosophy on the contents of a single book.

...or at least one shouldn't.

I'm sure most people know that the founding fathers weren't Angels. I expect that Jefferson is looked upon fondly because of the Louisiana Purchase and Washington is widely respected because, as president, he didn't declare himself 'president for life' and rule as a dictator (as has happened so many other times in world history). Washington was a surveyor, and made a lot of money as a developer, it's easy for us poor commoners to hate on wealthy developers.

I'm aware that Jefferson did things that went completely against his philosophy while he was president (such as the Louisiana Purchase). Oddly, being aware of such things doesn't make me believe that somehow Bernie Sanders is going to be a better president than Hillary Clinton.

Jefferson had a lot of debt and after his presidency had to go back and settle a lot of that debt, even though a lot of it was from his wife's family. Knowing that gives me no insight into why, out of the blue, while you were chewing my ass for being stupid, you decided to tell me how great you believe Bernie Sanders is.

That seemed like kind of a bizarre leap.

Have a happy new year.

[earthside]

5. And the last time a family member of a President ...

... was elected?

Was a disaster.

[MADem]

9. Barack Obama is related to Presidents--and he turned out pretty damn good, if you ask me.

He also has to live down being related to Dick Cheney.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/25/barackobama1

Barack Obama often makes a joke in his campaign speeches about a genealogical survey last year that found he is a distant cousin of Dick Cheney. Now there is double bad news for Obama: a new survey out today found he is related to George Bush as well.

Researchers at the New England Historic Genealogical Society, founded in 1845, said Obama, the son of a white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya, can call six US presidents his cousins: both Bushes, Ford, Johnson, Truman and James Madison.

The genealogical society, a non-profit organisation, found he is also related to Churchill.

The organisation said it investigated the bloodlines of the three presidential hopefuls. One of the oddest is that Obama is related to Brad Pitt and Hillary Clinton to his partner, Angelina Jolie.

[BlueMTexpat]

15. Very interesting link!

To my everlasting shame, through my paternal grandmother I have links to President Franklin Pierce and a very tangential relationship to the Bushes. I was appalled to learn the latter.

Perhaps Prez O and I are distantly related through the Bush connection, LOL. Wouldn't that be fun? I would be VERY proud.

[Blanks]

18. Barbara 'Pierce' Bush is a distant niece...

Is there also a connection between President Pierce and George H. W. Bush?

[BlueMTexpat]

21. My connection is through the

Pierce lineage. I think that I read somewhere that Barbara and George were also distantly related to each other, but I am not sure whether that is through the Pierces.

Whatever their blood connection, if any, they certainly managed to produce some nasty offspring.

[MADem]

29. You're related to George W. and Jeb! then--not George H. W.

Barbara PIERCE Bush--H.W.'s wife--is your connection to BushCo. She's to be pitied, really, her "witch" comments about Ferraro and other somewhat rude remarks notwithstanding--her husband abandoned her in Midland TX in a shithole house without air conditioning, he had a "work wife" (Jennifer Fitzgerald) that was his "great love" (and Babs KNEW this), and she took abuse from GHWB about her looks and weight constantly. The reason she didn't dye that snow white mane was partially to say "FUCK YOU GEORGE" to her husband. More to the point, she had one disappointment after the next for children--they're all a load of smug dullards...and I'm thinking she is smart enough to know that.


The tearful goodbye between GHWB and Jennifer Fitzgerald


You know what they say--you can pick your friends, you can't pick your relatives!


That said, I'd much rather be related to a POTUS, even an unpopular one in history, than royalty--at least that POTUS had to convince SOMEONE that he deserved the job! I always thought being related to kings and queens was overrated--after all, didn't their families acquire power by beating up and bullying people who were less strong than they were?

[BlueMTexpat]

32. LOL, I'm not sure whether that's any

comfort!

Happy New Year!

[MADem]

33. Happy New Year to you, too!

[BlueMTexpat]

14. The first time actually worked out pretty well.

John Adams (2nd) and John Quincy Adams (6th) JQ Adams was also a former Secretary of State.

As a diplomat, Adams played an important role in negotiating key treaties, most notably the Treaty of Ghent, which ended the War of 1812. As Secretary of State, he negotiated with Britain over the United States' northern border with Canada, negotiated with Spain the annexation of Florida, and drafted the Monroe Doctrine. Historians agree he was one of the greatest diplomats and secretaries of state in American history.

As president he sought to modernize the American economy and promote education. Adams enacted a part of his agenda and paid off much of the national debt. However he was stymied time and again by a Congress controlled by his enemies, and his lack of patronage networks helped politicians eager to undercut him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams

Something that happened before to someone else in another era means zilch. Hillary is also related to Bill by marriage, not blood.

btw, I totally agree with you about Bush II.

[earthside]

26. JQA generally ineffectual as President.

I believe the consensus among many historians is that John Quincy Adams was an ineffectual President; he lost reelection.

Whether by blood or marriage, the psychological baggage that accompanied a Bush son or would be carried by a Clinton spouse is going to negative, in my estimation.

That is just real life ... another thing I suppose we aren't supposed to talk about, but this family dynasty crap is just not ever going to be good in a democracy.

[MADem]

6. The last female former Senator to be elected President...was no one. Time to shake it up!

Hillary 2016!

Hillary never served in the House, nor was she an ambassador, nor was she nominated to the Supremes.... so I guess she's safe from the "Buchanan curse" if there is such a thing!

[Srednas Einreb]

11. So reasons for your voting for Clinton is...

because she's got the ovaries?

Well, my wife has ovaries, and she is certainly qualified. under the constitution of the united states. I should go write in Jane Smith* as the President of the United States

*not her real name. Think I'm stupid?

[MADem]

12. So....you boil everything down to ....

ONE REASON?

Hey, if that's YOUR one reason--vote for your wife. I'm not going to tell you what to do.

Since you were having a difficult time following the arc of the discussion, anyway...


This sad pile started with James Buchanan, and a load of bullshit about him. It was one of those lame "compare and contrast" exercises that never end well.

[stonecutter357]

19. ovaries!

[earthside]

25. Of course ...

... we aren't supposed to say it, but that is exactly and the only reason for many Hillarians.

If it happens (and I doubt it will) the great irony is that the first woman POTUS will be there by virtue of having been married to a previous POTUS -- we're not supposed to say that either (but it's true).

[Uponthegears]

31. Bernie all the way

But accusing "many" Hillary supporters of voting for her solely because of her gender without further explanation is sexist and condescending.

[Beowulf]

8. Just saying

That having been a Secretary of State or being uniquely "qualified" is no guarantee that person will be a successful president. I'm saying the argument that Hillary is the most qualified candidate isn't a compelling argument that wins my vote. George H W Bush also had a full resume. As did Nixon. I'm much more interested in clues as to what a former SOS would do as president. What were her accomplishments as SOS? I'm not seeing seeing much that suggests she was talented in brokering peace, defusing dangerous situations, shoring up alliances. I do see evidence that she could engineer regime change and use her office to raise substantial funds for the Clinton Foundation. I'm not especially interested in a president with those talents.

[Thinkingabout]

10. We see how it worked out for the lasr long serving Congressional member who ran

for president, he lost. Also, you have just disqualified Sanders also.

[MADem]

13. "Compare and Contrast" is only OK if you're making fun of Clinton, you see....

Last edited Sat Jan 2, 2016, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

If you dared to point out obvious similarities between other candidates, why, you'd see some...UMBRAGE!!!








They've got very similar hairstyles, don't they? Same color hair, too! Many years on the Hill? Both started in the House of Representatives? Younger second wives? Both in their seventies...?

Why, they could be brothers~!!

[SunSeeker]

16. LOL

MADem you are KILLING IT on this thread.

Happy New Year!

[MADem]

30. I am a seeker of truth in this fresh New Year!

Happy New Year to you, as well!!!

[stonecutter357]

20. +1

[Thinkingabout]

22. Yes, similar, difference, one got the nomination,

One......

[Zynx]

23. Something to think about for about 0.2 seconds and then discard.

[3catwoman3]

27. If that long.

eom