2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNew Hampshire is Excited for Bernie!
Here's some sites and sounds from Bernie's excursion throughout New Hampshire today:
Londonderry
(This was billed as a "roundtable." Not sure if that happened first and then he went out to see the crowd, but this is more of a town hall than a roundtable.)
New Market
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Wheeeeeee!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Wheeeeee!
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Wheeeee?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Sorry - we're past Ron Paul's and Nader's handful of Super Rallies. They had a few, but Bernie is consistently over-filling every location at which he appears.
That meme died a month or two back.
I'm sorry your candidate can't seem to drum up as much support and, trust me, if folks are willing to stand out in the cold overflow areas and listen to him, they'll be willing to get out and vote for him.
Amherst, MA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251963524
Bernie
2000 attendees--Sanders Town Meeting in Dubuque, Iowa (12/12) Overflow crowd Source: Radio Iowa
1500 attendees--Sanders Town Meeting in Waterloo, Iowa (12/12) Standing-room only. Source: Waterloo Courier
1125 attendees--Sanders Town Hall in Mt. Vernon, Iowa (12/13)
Clinton
200 attendees--"Fighting for Us" Town Hall in Ft. Dodge, Iowa (12/4) Source: ABC News
350 attendees--"Fighting For Us" Town Hall in Waterloo, Iowa (12/9) Source: Waterloo Courier
250 attendees_"Fighting For Us" Town Hall in Urbandale Iowa (12/9) Source: Radio Iowa
George II
(67,782 posts)Bernie
2000 attendees--Sanders Town Meeting in Dubuque, Iowa (12/12) Overflow crowd Source: Radio Iowa
STUMP SPEECH, ZERO QUESTIONS
1500 attendees--Sanders Town Meeting in Waterloo, Iowa (12/12) Standing-room only. Source: Waterloo Courier
STUMP SPEECH, ZERO QUESTIONS
1125 attendees--Sanders Town Hall in Mt. Vernon, Iowa (12/13)
STUMP SPEECH, ZERO QUESTIONS
Clinton
200 attendees--"Fighting for Us" Town Hall in Ft. Dodge, Iowa (12/4) Source: ABC News
OPEN FORUM TOWN HALL
350 attendees--"Fighting For Us" Town Hall in Waterloo, Iowa (12/9) Source: Waterloo Courier
OPEN FORUM TOWN HALL
250 attendees_"Fighting For Us" Town Hall in Urbandale Iowa (12/9) Source: Radio Iowa
OPEN FORUM TOWN HALL
He lectures, she listens
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)she has to say. Or should I correct that? Very few want to listen to her, so she holds listening sessions.
It's all the more amazing that people come out to hear Bernie speak when he is giving a real speech and not holding listening sessions.
That so many want to listen to Bernie is a signal that he is more charismatic than Hillary, more loved.
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)So why do we need to ask questions? Meanwhile, what do Hillary and O'Malley have in mind when they say "Debt free tuition"? There's a question there I want elaborated on. How does her plan differ from Glass-Stegal and what makes it better? I don't think we've received a satisfactory response on that or else it would've been posted already.
George II
(67,782 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Can you tell me what Hillary and O'Malley mean by "Debt-free tuition"? Does it mean I'll be taxed at 3% like in Oregon or does it mean something else? How about her financial reform plan?
George II
(67,782 posts)Just who are you?
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Will be traveling to Washington two weeks after the inauguration of whichever Democrat wins the primary and general election and hopefully march on Washington. I hope to see all of you there, both Hillary and Bernie supporters, to march on Washington and make sure we have real reforms. I want to see numbers comparable to MLK's march along with necessary accommodation for when the hotels are filled(with the "March On Washington" under MLK people opened up their homes to marchers to make the numbers possible). I have a post on it but didn't feel like it belonged in primaries since it would be past that time and we'd be supporting whoever won the nom. so it's in general.
George II
(67,782 posts)"New Hampshire is excited for Bernie".
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)(I've been here since 2004, if that really matters to you)
concreteblue
(626 posts)If I had no answers..........
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Geezus. You Hillary supporters are super mean and nasty. And bitter. And you guys have the nerve to complain about Bernie supporters.
tsk tsk.
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CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)On Mon Jan 4, 2016, 07:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
So now having a discussion is "demanding answers"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=973468
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Personal attack and just gratuitous hostility. Super mean, nasty and bitter is really over the top
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 4, 2016, 07:20 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This response is hostile (while responding to a hostile post, true.)
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: See nothing wrong with this comment. nt
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Over the top? It's only just begun! Does not meet criteria to be hidden. Remember...this is a community!
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is over the top? Hardly. Leave it alone.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
I was Juror #7.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)How many hundreds of posts have said that B supporters are mean and nasty?
Sheesh.
And sheesh to me too. I really need to just start using the ignore function so I don't get sucked into the stupid. It's not becoming to me either.
.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)It's so hard not to get sucked into these fights. I am posting way less to avoid them, and that's not good either.
Hang in there!
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)PatrickforO
(14,572 posts)Each plank in Bernie's platform is supported by at least 51% of Americans according to national surveys conducted by a variety of pollsters over at least five years' time. To me, that says that Bernie listened to us just fine, and his 40 year track record of being for these things shows me that what's in his heart is what most Americans want.
As opposed to your candidate who hasn't stated several positions until she was SURE what the polls and focus groups said. Like her stance on TPP - laughable, considering she helped write the damn thing when she was SoS. If you don't believe me, check out her speech to the NY Economic Club in 2011 where she BRAGS about her 'economic statecraft':
http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2011/10/20111014172924su0.9650494.html
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Hillary functions are a JOKE!!!
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Thanks!
.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But, I wouldn't expect you to know that.
George II
(67,782 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)I hope you never dare say that Bernie supporters of behaving as you are.
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George II
(67,782 posts)Are you today's "designated hitter"?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)If not, then what are you hoping to accomplish with these rude posts?
Designated hitter? Huh? I don't play politics as a team sport. It's about policy to me, not teams.
.
George II
(67,782 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Everyone can see how rude you are being and many have commented on it. You can do yourself a favor by apologizing and deleting. Or you can leave it and let everyone see how rude Hillary supporters are. That's fine too.
But I certainly hope you don't complain about rudeness, especially if you are trying to paint Bernie supporters as such.
It's also quite telling that you are responding to these posts about your rudeness but have yet to provide evidence of a claim you made about Sanders even though you have had more than one request for it.
Priorities, George, priorities. On DU policy should be a priority, not rude retorts and character assassination. Oh, and alert stalking or plotting.
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George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)mmmkay... gonna keep that in mind if I see you complaining about Bernie supporters.
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George II
(67,782 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)I've read on some hate site that you like to prod people and then alert on them. In fact I saw a screenshot of you saying that about cali. Don't ask for a link, you're not worth getting a hide over.
But there was a post where you refused to answer a couple of questions and stated that the person asking was a newbie and was demanding answers so you refused to continue the discussion, you just accused them of being new and demanding. That is a clear example. If you don't see it then I can't help you.
There's several more posts of yours that are rude. Just read the thread and pay close attention to your posts and read the responses to them. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about, it's plain as day. Several have commented it, some using the terms "petty", "peevish and short-tempered".
If that's how you want to come off and how you want to represent Hillary, have at it!
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George II
(67,782 posts)....and my posts out of nowhere, then play games avoiding exactly what you're "accusing".
The rest is all blah blah blah.
Funny how that works....."methinks thou dost protest too much".
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Go ahead and read it, you'll get your answer.
.
George II
(67,782 posts)...you showed up and responded to each and every one of my posts here, including one that was a response to someone else.
And you're not "stalking" me?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 5, 2016, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)
But you are doing a great job of kicking this thread! Is this really how you want to represent and support Hillary? Barging into a celebration thread about Bernie with nothing but the intent to disrupt and then harassing people and falsely accusing them of stalking?
This could end if you really wanted the answer you requested because I gave it to you posts ago. Here, read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=973876
I even pointed you to that same post here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=974203
But rather than read my posts and check and see how many other people commented on your bad attitude in this OP you have now switched to falsely accusing me of stalking. As I said, I know you are trying to prod me into a hide. Why are you not asking all the other people who commented on your rudeness what was rude about it? Why did you single me out? Are you stalking me?
Oh hell, while I'm at it, a quick glance shows that you are completely incorrect when you say, and I quote:
Show me where I did that. You don't have to link to my posts, you can link to yours, then there's no call out and you can't get a hide. But you have to link to every single post you made on Sunday.
.
George II
(67,782 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 5, 2016, 06:54 PM - Edit history (1)
Are you going to keep saying I didn't answer you until I have to post 100 links to the original post of mine where I already answered you and all the posts where I then direct you to that post over and over again because you want to continue to falsely claim that I never answered you?
What do you hope to accomplish by continuing to disrupt a positive Bernie thread? Is this really the best way for you to represent/support Hillary?
And do you even grasp the irony of this last post? Claiming I didn't give you an answer while at the exact same time refusing to provide me with one? Did you see this OP? You should read the whole thing, you might find it enlightening.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027498560
btw... nice sig line.
.
maggies farm
(79 posts)says you are tiresome. I have been here more than 3 days. Lurked longer than having an account too.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)during her standard "Fighting For Us" Town Halls.
Bernie has been drawing 2000+ crowds. Local field organizers in Des Moines told me that 4,000 people RSVPd for his New Year's Eve party in downtown Des Moines. Four times the capacity of the ballroom. Another ballroom had to be used and there were supporters spilling out into the hallways.
Both Clinton and Sanders are busy in Iowa doing these rallies. Each has their own style.
However, Clinton is just not attracting the numbers that Bernie is.
Quite possibly those numbers will change very soon---as caucus season is about to really heat up.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)Forgot one. Oh noes. Questions.
2nd of 4 events that day.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)the real difference is Bernie knows the answers and his supporters trust him. Hill needs the questions to make sure she's taken the right position on the issues. More like an adult versus a young child.
George II
(67,782 posts)...that's mighty smug and presumptuous.
Remember, a candidate/public servant is there to do what the PEOPLE want, not what he wants.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)unlike some other candidates. The reason for his large crowds is because his supporters like and want to hear him. Nothing presumptuous about it. If Hill had a constant message the middle class liked, she might get more than a few hundred people at her rallies.
George II
(67,782 posts)Not exactly "progressive" positions.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Karma13612
(4,552 posts)felt the law should be handled at a state level reflective of the individual state needs and particular gun use patterns (rural versus urban, hunters, etc).
His vote against suing gun manufacturers was based on the simple logic that:
Would you sue Stanley (the Hammer maker) if someone used one of their hammers to bludgeon someone to death?? No
So, why sue the gun manufacturer if someone murders someone with a gun? How about suing the maker of a car, or Henckel's cutlery?
George II, it's obvious you don't prefer Bernie Sanders. I respect that, but using such silly points to find fault is just that, silly.
By the way, I notice the Canadian flag on your posts. Are you a Canadian living in the US? Will you actually be voting in this Presidential election or are you just interested in American politics from a spectator role?
Just curious.
George II
(67,782 posts)...that comes back to bite him later.
He voted against the Brady Bill. Period.
He voted for the Crime Bill that included strict sentences for drug law violations. Period.
He can't run from them now.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)I noticed the Canadian flag in your comments.
Just curious.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)with the gold arrow and the champagne flute, I thought 1%, and next to it, " Oh the irony!"
The irony, indeed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If he didn't get a good crowd there, he would do well to head north and just go home.
Amherst is the home of the University of Massachusetts 'mother campus,' with nearly thirty THOUSAND students. It's also the home of Amherst college, which has a good reputation, and Hampshire College (an "apply and you get in" school like that one up in Burlington) and those two add another three thousand or so students to the general population. Mount Holyoke and Smith Colleges are also nearby--that's nearly five grand more of a "captive audience" of students in the Pioneer Valley with not much else to do.
Also, he came to town on the weekend that everyone returns from winter break--everyone's looking for something to do to get back into the swing of things after the holidays.
I'm not saying that people who showed up didn't want to see him--of course they did. But his timing was good with this stop. He did the same thing when he went to Boston--he got there in early October, when kids were just starting to find their groove after a summer off.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Give the people what they want.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)I don't think so.
George II
(67,782 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)instead of your usual sunny self!
George II
(67,782 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)It cannot feel good to make a comment like that. You deserve better.
rynestonecowboy
(76 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Mm-hm...
.
bec
(107 posts)so well that she has to call in her backup, Billie Boy.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)wheeeeeee!!!
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, Fawke Em.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)I think Bernie's gonna surprise people (in a good way) in Iowa and New Hampshire. Can the media continue the Bernie blackout if he actually wins the first two contests?
Go Bernie!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Wonder how they're feeling in their boardrooms knowing that social media is end-running them?
I could understand when he first threw his hat in the ring and was polling at 5 percent why they didn't cover him. But, being a former reporter, myself, I don't get how they can't see the story potential in how social media was used to spread the word and that word translated into big rallies and those big rallies have translated into his leading in New Hampshire and running neck-and-neck in Iowa.
I always thought "rags to riches" or "nothing to something"-type stories were great fodder. Hell, I was taught that in J-School. Those stories are almost as popular as crime stories. That's how I know the blackout is on purpose. In any other circumstance, his meteoric rise in the polls and in fund-raising would be all the talking heads would talk about.
If Bernie wins both NH and Iowa, we can finally start crowing that the M$M is dead. They are no more relevant than rooftop TV antennas.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Bernie's policies are a threat to that. If he actually starts to look like he could win the nomination, I expect the (hopefully metaphorical) knives to be out.
First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win
We're mostly in the first two stages with some signs of the third. Expect the fight to get stronger when we start to make more progress.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)The Entrenched Establishment of both parties are starting to squirm.
They are very rich, controlling and think they own it all...
Finally, we're gonna change that.
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)you're a real reporter.
I mean have you ever heard the AP News feed on Sirius Left? It's complete garbage, a bunch of non-political nonsense they report on and that's the AP feed! I could be wrong, it's been a long while since I've listened to it but every time I'm left disgusted. When I listen to a political channel I want to hear important stuff, not some nonsense about a celebrity.
Anyway, all that nonsense is what news has been distilled down to on Cable. There's a reason why I don't watch CNN or any of the other news networks on Cable for the most part...I don't care to hear about stuff like the missing airliner, Terry Shiavo or Natalie Holloway. The first was fine when they first reported it but putting up 24/7 coverage on it?! I feel less inclined to hear about whether a woman is in a coma or not and she should have life support prolonged.
However, that continuing coverage is ratings gold without pissing off advertisers.
I know, if I want to do get a degree and do Journalism and make a fine living I have two options...1.Do a ton of research, write a book on an important subject, do the rounds on the talk show circuit pushing it like Jeremy Scahill, Max Blumenthal and others have been done. At that point I've established myself as a brand for a journalist and can demand better pay to make a suitable living. 2.Have a side career that subsidizes my journalism, like selling music, directing films or writing stories.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I couldn't work the crazy hours for low pay and raise a child by myself.
I'm in PR and marketing, now. Still using my Communications degree, though. That's a rarity these days! LOL.
If you have the time, energy, etc., I think this could grow into a significant article for one of the major online publications. Hope you'll follow up on it.
You have so much talent, Fawke Em, and you can do a lot of good with it.
(But if it's just too much right now, you've done just fine sharing it with us and the many lurkers.)
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Because they don't want to lose their relevance/power as Gatekeepers. I said it once in another thread and I'll say it here again, the Mainstream Media wants news shows like "Democracy Now" dead and channels like FSTV dead as well. The same goes for "The Young Turks". They want Glenn Greenwald, Naomi Klein and others blacklisted.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I've been watching Iowa media very closely since the summer (I live in Iowa).
Bernie has been pretty much blacked out. I knew that his rally numbers were in the 2000+ range, because I spoke with people who attended. I could not find anything on his Dubuque rally or on his other rallies in Waterloo that drew 1,500+ supporters. Clinton's rallies were only drawing on average 200 people.
Here's video from a Clinton Ft. Dodge rally. Low attendance and you can see that the back rows of chairs are not filled.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/supporters-rally-hillary-clinton-iowa-town-hall-35588843
It's debatable what rally attendance means and if that translates into more caucus supporters for Sanders. Setting that aside, it is apparent that Sanders is drawing large, enthusiastic crowds and Clinton, in general, is not. Isn't that interesting?
I also noticed that Hillary had pool reporters from Politico, ABC, CBS, NYTimes and other outlets following her campaign and reporting Stories. Sanders had no one. I could barely find an article on him in the Des Moines Register. When they did cover his Waterloo events, they didn't report on his crowd numbers. All was downplayed.
I've noticed a shift in the last week or so in Iowa. He's got pool reporters with him now during his campaign events. The Des Moines Register has a reporter covering Bernie and his events. Jennifer Jacobs has been covering all of Hillary's events for the Register since early fall.
I noticed more articles about Bernie in local Iowa media and some are also starting to sprout from national outlets.
Although Bernie's blackout was worse than what Obama experienced in 2008, I can tell you that the media scales were definitely tipped in favor of Hillary in 2008. She was "inevitable" and was touted as such in the Des Moines Register and in other Iowa broadcast and print outlets. She had more coverage than Obama. As Obama's crowds and enthusiasm grew, it was as if all bets were off and the media just began covering him. I see the same thing with Sanders. His crowds and the excitement for him is a great story. Reporters are going to be all over the state, and they are looking for cool stories.
They'll be reporting on Bernie.
Like it or not--Hillary gets the blackouts she wants in the beginning phases of the caucus. I've witnessed this happen in 2008 and now in 2016. However, during the last month before the caucuses, the reporters just start doing their jobs and reporting on the cool stuff happening. They'll be reporting on Bernie quite a bit.
He's got great optics with those large crowds That won't be hidden any longer. Not in Iowa anyway. And that's important because the coverage can help him win the caucuses.
My 2 cents.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)It's hard to know what is going on in Iowa due to the media blackout. That is why it is great to hear your perspective as a resident of such an important primary state.
Thanks for the update!
They will ignore him until he wins the election. All the large news organizations in this country (TV, radio, newspapers, magazines) are propaganda organizations, dedicated to promoting the point of view of the 1%.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)How little can they report on Bernie without making it obvious to the most casual observer that their coverage is skewed?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)On Super Tuesday Hillary will have an insurmountable number of delegates.
senz
(11,945 posts)Doesn't matter what the people want, right? Who are "the "people" anyway? They don't count, do they?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...the cart is in front of the horse.
And the horse has a bumper sticker on its ass that reads, "Just like in 2008!"
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)It's only going to get better. Bernie is the real deal.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)biggest crowds of anyone!!!!!!
Phlem
(6,323 posts)He sure as hell has my vote!
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you, Fawke Em! You are a gem.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)nenagh
(1,925 posts)great photos..and video..such wonderful positive energy..
peacebird
(14,195 posts)All those Super Delegates are not going to select Hillary over the popular vote in their states, they will turn to support the candidate who has the electorate.
Bernie Sanders energizes people, and the Hillary folk here are simply reacting badly to a case of deja vu.
Even with the major media & the power of the DNC doing their level best to hand her the nomination, Bernie keeps rising. More individual donations than any presidential candidate in history. Bringing in almost as much as Hillary even without her billionaires. And, he has so many of us donating small amounts that he can come back to us for more again and again!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)this cracked me up. We keep hearing from the Usual Suspects that people attending these events don't necessarily translate into votes. Really? People get up out of their house, fight traffic (in many cases), wander around for a place to park 2 miles from the venue, walk TO the venue, attend the event, walk back to their cars and fight traffic to get home and those aren't going to translate into votes?
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)YEAH, they'll all stay home on election day. Dumbest, most idiotic excuse EVER.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
cui bono
(19,926 posts)are not gonna go vote for Bernie either.
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Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Go, Bernie!
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Every minute of every day...people are introduced to Bernie and his common sense / mainstream message for America. It takes about 5 minutes for folks to jump on board with support and enthusiasm.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)gordyfl
(598 posts)Nice!
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Tab
(11,093 posts)I had some trouble with my iPhone but I did manage to extract the video - I'll probably upload it tomorrow.
It said "roundtable" but not really, in that there was no panelists (not sure if it was intended that way or not). It went for an hour, about 20+ mins for talking, and the rest for questions from the audience. It was a nice small venue - 150 to 200 people? I had a first row. (!). He arrived on time, left on time (next stop: Plaistow, about 30 mins drive, getting him there on time).
I think one test that comes out of our extended presidential run is if you have the stamina. The travel schedule of the top candidates can be real burn-out material. Fortunately, Bern doesn't seem to be burning out, he's just more fired up.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)He looks like he's having the time of his life. It's gotta be incredibly energizing, seeing people turn out and respond to his message.
Tab
(11,093 posts)He loves this shit.