I'd feel EXACTLY the same way about DWS if she was a man.

[Ken Burch]

And exactly the same way about HRC.

I'm pretty sure this goes for 99% of the folks on DU who post in opposition to either of them.

It's about cynicism, conservatism and failure, not plumbing.

And I shouldn't even have had to post this OP.

[Warren DeMontague]

1. We need to put terminally ill grannies in prison for eating pot brownies. To do otherwise is SEXISM!

Derpy-derp-derp

[jonno99]

2. +1

[arcane1]

3. "And I shouldn't even have had to post this OP". Exactly.

Downhill this place has gone, as Yoda might say.

[earthside]

4. Of course.

I thought Ed Rendell was a poor DNC chair.

And I wasn't especially thrilled with Terry McAuliffle as chair, either.

I'm so tired of this 'sexism' allegation every time it starts getting rough for Clinton or DWS.

As that great Democratic President Harry Truman said: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
(And I suppose even that saying is going to be considered sexist somehow now.)

[Autumn]

5. Can't recommend this enough.

[Hiraeth]

6. me too

[CharlotteVale]

7. The phoney sexism accusations are meant to silence us. And they won't work.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Exactly right. As are the accusations of posting "RW talking points" when criticizing HRC.

A rhetorical device intended to stop conversation.

[Chakab]

20. ...or the notion that you can't speak ill of Democrats on a Democratic forum even if said Democrats

don't seem to care about any of the core principles that the party is supposed to stand for.

[randys1]

8. You dont know that though. An honest man, and this goes for ALL men, will admit

that due to living in and being raised in a misogynistic society, we react differently to Women than men.

Period

This plays into the way we see DWS and Hillary.

Good men, work diligently not to do this, just as good white people work diligently to shed the coat of privilege we wear.

But we still, by definition, as men, react differently to Women than men.

I am sure this is a proven scientific fact, even.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. No, I think Chris Christie is just as much of an asshole for wanting to arrest sick people for pot.

Exactly as much, and he supposedly has a penis.

[Divernan]

36. Although he hasn't actually seen it in decades!

[Cassiopeia]

12. So all men have at least some degree of misogyny in them?

Every single one?

[randys1]

13. I believe all men born in a misogynist society do, even if it is subconscious.

Just like all whites in America have privilege which is part of racism.

[el_bryanto]

19. A few points

There is a difference between male privilege and white privilege and actually having racist or sexist attitudes (even if subconcious). Privilege is something you receive automatically, whether you seek it or not. It doesn't matter how much i've battled my racist attitudes as a white person cops are probably going to treat me differently than a black person.

That said, while I might agree that it's possible and even likely for all males to harbor some misogynist attitudes I'm not sure how that applies in this case; does that mean that men should be Considered incapable of judging a woman's capabilities?

Bryant

[bvf]

16. Remember that vote

where you were unanimously elected spokesperson for the gender? When was that? Because I'm pretty sure a lot of people missed it.

[randys1]

17. I speak for myself, it is my opinion. Just like I say all white people participate

in privilege which is racism.

[bvf]

25. You are clearly presuming to speak

for an entire gender, which is complete nonsense.

ETA:

This OP has zero to do with race, btw. Start another on that, if you choose.

[AlbertCat]

31. But we still, by definition, as men, react differently to Women than men.

Biology.


Oh I forgot.... pointing that out is misogynist...


(and do we have to capitalize "women" now?)

[Ken Burch]

34. Misogyny and sexism are real.

And all mean can be susceptible to them. That doesn't mean, however, that opposition to HRC and DWS among progressives is driven by that. To believe that, a person would have to believe that there are no valid reasons on the merits of the issues, to prefer the more progressive presidential candidate to the much more conservative presidential candidate.

And I hope you'd agree that the idea that the idea that a progressive man can only prove he is anti-misogyny is by supporting the much more conservative candidate who simply happens to be female to the much more progressive candidate(on all major issues)who simply happens to be male is nothing but demagoguery.

[Uncle Joe]

10. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ken Burch.

[Skidmore]

11. Ri-ight. nt.

[Ned_Devine]

14. I didn't like the guy from VA that took over after Howard Dean either.

He helped us lose the house in 2010

[CharlotteVale]

18. Tim Kaine - he's now my DINO senator. Can't stand him either.

[Ned_Devine]

24. Yeah, that was the beginning of the end when he took over

[Ken Burch]

28. Agreed. n/t.

[pa28]

21. Debbie has presided over catastrophic losses from the top down.

If her job is to win she's terrible at it. If her job is to maintain a fictional half-party that exists only to service the needs of big donors she's pretty good at that.

Her sex is irrelevant.

[bvf]

22. "And I shouldn't even have had to post this OP."

Very true, but I'm glad you did.

It's clear to see that this does need to be said. Judging from some responses here, you'd think we'd have an all-male SCOTUS and Congress, because, of course, we were all raised to hate women.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. cynicism, conservatism and failure

Actually it's about neoliberalism -- a cynical political-economic program that has failed the middle class since 1981.

[retrowire]

26. All genders are stupid! All genders are fallible!

That's gender equality people. So DWS stinks, no matter what the gender!

[AlbertCat]

33. This ^

...

[99Forever]

27. Truth is true.

[pangaia]

29. You absolutely should not have to post this. Sad isn't it.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

30. not me - I am an ass

do not like what she has done in her position - but I find her ... forget it

[senz]

32. I'd feel worse about DWS if she were a man.

The favoritism and abuse of power would seem more jaded and obvious then.

And if HRC were a man, a typical 3rd-Way DINO of a man, I don't think she'd even be running for president. But if she were, she'd be trying to catch up with O'Malley.

And while were imagining things, if I were a man, I'd grow a nice neat beard and wear big brown leather shoes. Maybe I'd even buy a pair of suspenders. And carry all my stuff in a wallet.

[Plucketeer]

35. I've never thought of women as anything but equal to my gender

I don't know why, but I can't remember ever having felt any other way. Maybe it's cause my mom was the strong one when I was growing up. I'm confident my attitude had to have germinated when I was of single digit age. Fate knows - in my seven decades on earth - I've seen the absolute worst of misogynistic attitudes and mistreatment. Disgusts me to witness such.
This nation - having existed for prit near two an a half centuries - should have had a female president by now. But that it hasn't, isn't because there've not been capable candidates that could have made the cut. There's most certainly women of today that are capable and qualified to occupy the Oval Office. Hillary IS of the Right caliber to handle the job. Problem is, she's got the baggage of big-time benefactors who - in spite of what she insists - are gonna want recompense for their generosity. If they'd given five or ten or even a couple hundred - like the rest of us - she'd look just fine to us wee folk. But Dame Hillary's out of touch with the vast majority of us. And that right there is why she does not deserve to be president.

[silvershadow]

37. I am personally glad to see she has a primary challenger.

Wasn't the one I had heard about, but I always welcome anyone to the process, as any good Democrat should.

[gvstn]

38. Oh, I thought this was about Dancing with the Stars. Never mind.

And that Debbie Wasserman Schultz seems to actively work against the party and progress.