Obama's 2016 gun terms might leave Sanders without White House support

[Alfresco]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-bernie-sanders-guns-217487

Excerpt:
By Edward-Isaac Dovere
01/08/16 06:22 AM EST

President Barack Obama might have trouble campaigning for Sen. Bernie Sanders if he becomes the Democratic nominee—at least if Obama sticks to the terms he laid out in his op-ed on gun control published Thursday night.

“I will not campaign for, vote for or support any candidate, even in my own party, who does not support common-sense gun reform,” Obama wrote in The New York Times.

Obama gave some specific definitions for common-sense gun reform in the op-ed. Among them: Congressional votes that “guaranteed that manufacturers enjoy virtual immunity from lawsuits, which means that they can sell lethal products and rarely face consequences.”

Obama grouped that under laws that he argues have made the gun industry “entirely unaccountable,” blaming the gun lobby for bending Congress to its will.

Sanders voted for that provision when he was still in the House in 2005, and has stood by it during his presidential campaign.

[leftofcool]

1. I don't think Obama will ever campaign for Bernie

[Alfresco]

4. I agree, hopefully this will convince him to change his positions and admit it was a mistake.

[leftofcool]

9. Bernie doesn't change his positions, remember?

They tell us here on DU that he has had the same positions for 40 years which is what makes him so special.

[Alfresco]

10. Right, I have never heard where he admitted being wrong about anything. His self-righteousness?

[Akamai]

15. Certainly he "evolved" on the "Black Lives

Matter" issue and he can easily evolve on this issue as well.

It makes sense to do so as he will be representing the entire country.

I am reminded of the phrase "needless inconsistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds."

Or Maynard Keynes' reply to the reporter who asked him what he would do if the facts contradicted his views. Keynes responded,"I, sir would change my views. Pray tell me what you would do?"

[Alfresco]

13. Bernie quote: 'I'm Right and Everybody Else Is Wrong. Clear About That?'

[Akamai]

24. Obviously Sanders never said that -- and it should not be

not be reported that he would say that. For example, he has readily embraced the Black Lives Matter issue fully.

But on so many of his issues -- eg, wealth and income inequality, our unfair tax policies, climate change, creating jobs to address our crumbling infrastructure, getting big money out of politics, restoring unions to fight against corporate greed-- on these and many other issues he is correct and I hope he holds fast to his positions.

Go, Bernie!

[beam me up scottie]

25. Link to that quote? Tia!

[Alfresco]

26. Here ya go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016122030

[beam me up scottie]

29. You do realize that was a hit piece from a hack, right? And Bernie didn't actually mean that?

Do you understand what "quote" means?

[Alfresco]

30. You did follow the link and find the quote, right?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/i-m-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that-20140618

I suggest to Sanders that his vision for a new progressive base of old white guys runs somewhat counter to the conventional wisdom, but he cuts me off. "Who told you that?" he scoffs. "I'm talking from a little bit of experience. I did get 71 percent of the vote in my state. And despite popular conception — with all due respect to my friends in California, Northern California, where you have wealthy liberals who support me and I appreciate that — Vermont is a working-class state. So I'm glad you raised that, because your analysis is incorrect. And I'm right and everybody else is wrong. Clear about that?"

[beam me up scottie]

31. I read it and it doesn't prove your claim. Perhaps you can point out the quote?

[Alfresco]

32. Read post #30 again

[beam me up scottie]

34. He was joking, perhaps you missed the point?

[Alfresco]

36. HaHa..yeah right...

[beam me up scottie]

38. So you're actually claiming Bernie thinks he's always right?

I just want to clear that up now so I know whether or not to disregard everything else you post about him.

[Alfresco]

39. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. You asked for the link. He said it. Accept it and move on.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Thanks for clearing that up!

And if you think you're capable of "hurting my feelings" you have a severely inflated ego.

[stonecutter357]

48. +1

[virtualobserver]

54. Cleary, Team Hillary is VERY worried....you can feel the vibrations

[beam me up scottie]

55. Have you seen the first page of this forum?

The memo must have saI'd:

Bernie up in polls.

SMEAR SMEAR SMEAR!











Note to jury: no DUers were harmed by this post. Thank you for serving.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Hillary Clinton quote: "I will only talk to white people"

Watch: Black Lives Matter Activists Confront Hillary

See how that game is played, you really want to go there?

Hillary didn't actually mean she would only talk to white people but a dishonest person could make that claim.

[NorthCarolina]

50. Well played.

[beam me up scottie]

51. Thanks!

[uponit7771]

60. +1, If he became president he'll never ever compromise on ANY of the 10,000 tenants of the left eith

... it's either 100% left or Sanders will "revolution" congress

[John Poet]

11. Still waiting for Obama to 'join a picket line'

in support of union members... (a line from his presidential campaign rhetoric).

[leftofcool]

12. What does that have to do with gun control?

[bahrbearian]

27. Kinda like the Public Option, never was going to happen.

[uponit7771]

61. I'm not waiting for Obama to place himself in great danger knowing the haters out there but go

... ahead and hold him to a pre office promise where he didn't know how many nuts would be available

[BlueMTexpat]

28. He likely will not have to.

[floriduck]

78. You're right. But not due to any gun position.

It is a result of Bernie wisely opposing the TPP. That is one of Obama's big projects. And Bernie fought it from day one. And even Hill moved over to oppose it but she would likely rethink her position, if elected.

[mmonk]

2. I thought Sanders stood by the executive actions.

I believe he was against gun shop owners being liable for legal sales.

[Thinkingabout]

7. Gun show and internet sales had a big loophole in avoiding background checks.

There was another loophole in the background check had a time limit and the Charleston shooter got his gun because the time elapsed. There are the straw buyers, then the "trust" loophole allows gun possession to those who are incapable of safely possessing weapons. Why is the gun industry the only industry without liability?

[Duckhunter935]

17. explain the gun show and Internet loophole

You know it is not true right. Any FFL even at a gun show today must do a federal background check. Any Internet purchase that crosses a state line must be shipped to an FFL and federal background check performed. It is an intrastate transaction between two people residing in the same state and is not a loophole. It is the design of the law because that is a state issue.

[Thinkingabout]

19. Bye, there are loop holes.

[Duckhunter935]

22. if there are you could define and explain them.

Your non response is deafening on the subject.

Was anything I stated incorrect?

[Duckhunter935]

33. what is not correct here?

Any FFL even at a gun show today must do a federal background check. Any Internet purchase that crosses a state line must be shipped to an FFL and federal background check performed. It is an intrastate transaction between two people residing in the same state and is not a loophole. It is the design of the law because that is a state issue.

[JRLeft]

46. The gun hater has no evidence.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. He did. The op is nonsense.

[cantbeserious]

3. Riddle Me This - Why Is A Firearms Manufacturer Responsible For Unsafe Product Operation

eom

[uponit7771]

63. THey're not, they're responsible for making an unsafe device less safe when there are options...

... out there.

[cantbeserious]

64. Riddle Me This - How Are Firearms Manufacturers Making Firearms Less Safe

eom

[Duckhunter935]

65. good question

As I have said and they can not refute, firearms are more safe now than in the past. A firearm has to function correctly 100% of the time to be effective. What safety measures are they wanting?

[restorefreedom]

68. i have heard about fingerprint id technology

to restrict use to the lawful owner. don't know if that is one of the options on the table.

[Duckhunter935]

75. have dirty or sweaty hands or

Wear a glove and the weapons fails., it is now just a paperweight and a valid lawsuit.

[restorefreedom]

76. that could be a problem

retinal scan? we have the technology, whether it can be applied to guns i have no idea. OTOH, many crimes are committed by the lawful owner anyway.

i don't know, honestly. but i don't hsve a problem with bernie's position on lawsuits. if they work and someone misuses them, then the problem is the use, not the product (assuming it is not defective)

[Duckhunter935]

77. still have the issue of batteries

I would hate to have to need to use a weapon and have a dead battery. Keep it simple is what weapons need, 100% no failure rate is the objective.

[restorefreedom]

79. what do you like that works?

if you could improve gun safety or owner-use only integrity, what would you like to see? i am admittedly fairly ignorant on the technology

[Duckhunter935]

80. I am all for anything that works 100%

It just is not there yet. Good mechanical safeties, gun locks and safes. They should be free or heavily discounted.

[restorefreedom]

81. just out of curiosity..

are there safes that recognize the owner? that could be an idea...esp for those with kids

[Thinkingabout]

5. The gun issue is a big problem to me, with so many dying every day

In the US sensible gun control laws is needed, has been needed for some years. Congressional members has bowed to the NRA too many years, it is time to shake the NRA and pass sensible laws. Grover Norquist had an oath by members not to increase taxes, once they stood up to Norquist he lost his hold, nothing happened to the members.

[Duckhunter935]

6. what is sensable

I think suppressors should be allowed for general use as a safety measure. Would you agree?

[Thinkingabout]

8. You know what is sensible, we have to have some restrictions because of the

Killings everyday in America, the NRA used to be concerned about safety, not any more. Simply stated not every person is capable of correctly possessing a weapon, there are the mentally ill and the hateful who do not need guns.

[Duckhunter935]

14. I know what I think is sensible

I have now problems with UBC and heavily enforcing existing laws. More funding and treatment for mental health. Since 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides, I hope that helps. Bans based on cosmetic features are not. Suppressors being restricted is not as they are mandated in Europe as the safety device it is. I smiled sure you differ from me but increasing background checks will make little difference. People who commit suicide ND all of the spree murderers passed background checks.

[Thinkingabout]

18. Again and since a background check prevented several family members from

Death by a suicidal-homicidal person, yes they do work.

[Duckhunter935]

21. I am sure they do in some cases

That is why I have no problem with them

[snoringvoter]

43. Tell that to the victims of Newtown, CT

[Duckhunter935]

53. or any of the high profile

Spree murders by firearms. They all passed background checks. One was delayed due to incompetence and the dealer chose the option to proceed. If it came back denied, the firearm would still have to have been returned or picked up by law enforcement.

[Thinkingabout]

56. This was a personal experience I had, BTW, the shooter in the case did

Not purchase the gun. My heart goes out to those families, in my case because of the delay in purchasing a weapon with the background check prevented my family members from getting killed.

[peacebird]

20. Sanders has already come out in support of Obamas EOs on guns

So I fail to see how this is a problem

[restorefreedom]

69. it doesn't fit a certain narrative.

thats the only problem

[daybranch]

23. Let me see, I buy a car and intentionally drive into a crowd and you sue the auto company?

Maybe the dealer who may have know I was a wacko, but the auto company because??? This is getting pretty far fetched as you Hillary people want to make gun ownership a crime itself. There ain't nothing I can see about this that is common sense. You take a position people should not have guns, and then you do whatever you can to stop them from ownership of those guns , suing manufacturers for actions they have no way of fore seeing. All you are doing is raising the price of guns, helping put their price outside those who want to hunt and target shut with them and putting them into the hands of crazies who would pay anything for them..
Obama is and has been shown to be wrong on a number of issues, and now they will return to bite him. His support of fracking, his allowing of export of US oil, his proposal of the new CPI for social security payment calculation, his current support of the Trans-Atlantic Trade Partnership which hurts us all as it denies our right to make our laws if they would in effect harm some business in a foreign country. I f you do not believe he is making a mistake with the TTP, did you just see how the US government is being sued under Clinton's NAFTA because Obama is against the Keystone Pipeline?

[Vinca]

35. With one exception, Bernie's stance is nearly identical re guns.

I can't believe President Obama wouldn't campaign to keep a Democratic candidate in the White House. Electing a Republican is going to put a whole lot more guns on the street. Imagine a GOP POTUS, House and Senate, all bought off by the NRA. I'd start rethinking the whole move to Canada thing since my husband has dual citizenship.

[Vattel]

37. Meh, Sanders said he is willing to reconsider PLCAA.

[djean111]

42. Oh, so Obama would sit back and not support the candidate of the Democratic party?

Obama would be responsible for us saying hello to President Trump?

Obama would be actually supporting the GOP?

Gosh, stuff like this gets thrown around at us ordinary citizens, with our one vote each, all the time.

Not surprised by the hypocrisy. maybe this is sort of loyalty pledge 235 - better support Hillary because Obama won't support Bernie?
Stuff it. Not a chance.

[Alfresco]

44. Gun safety is a very important issue with the Dem Party. I take him at his word.

[djean111]

45. So you are okay with saying hello to President Trump. Due to Obama.

Actually, a corporate president not supporting an anti-corporate candidate would not surprise me one little bit. After all, Obama will be fine after he leaves office.

[Alfresco]

47. Don't worry, I don't see the scenario playing out.

[stonecutter357]

49. K&R!

[ejbr]

52. Obama hasn't made doing

the right thing easier

[Gothmog]

57. Sanders support of the gun manufacturer immunity law is wrong

[Duckhunter935]

59. tell me what the law actually does

And just what are the 6 exceptions. I am sure you can tell us.

[Gothmog]

66. No other industry has such broad blanket protection

The law is simply bad policy

[Duckhunter935]

67. have you read it

So you have no idea what it does

[Gothmog]

71. Yes, I have read it and the lawsuit brought by Sandy Hook parents

I am lawyer and I am far more familiar with this law and its legislative history. This was the NRA's major victory. Here are some facts for you to ignore from one of the lawyers at the Brady Center http://www.newsweek.com/gun-makers-and-dealers-should-lose-their-legal-immunity-404174

In 1998, New Orleans became the first city to file a lawsuit against gun manufacturers. More than 30 other major American cities and counties soon followed. Other cases brought by individual victims of shootings began working their way through the courts as well.

As one of the lawyers at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence helping to bring these cases, I saw very clearly the impact that they had. The lawsuits generated evidence of severe problems with distribution of guns, including undercover sting operations revealing how gun dealers knowingly allow people to make “straw purchases” on behalf of convicted felons who cannot pass a background check.

The lawsuits also changed perceptions about the issue. Rather than seeing gun violence simply as a crime issue, the press and public began focusing for the first time on specific ways in which the gun industry’s practices contribute to the danger.

Journalists wrote a flood of stories about topics like how gun companies boosted the lethality of their products to boost sales, how new technologies could make guns “personalized” to prevent unauthorized use and what government data showed about the illegal market for guns.

The lawsuits put enormous pressure on the gun industry to either reform its practices or face serious potential liability. From the industry’s perspective, that meant the lawsuits were a major threat.

Rather than doing the right thing and cleaning up its act, the industry turned to Congress for relief. The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act knocked out almost all of the litigation pending against gunmakers at the time.

The fact that you think that this bill is appropriate is sad and wrong. No other industry has this type of protection and President Obama will be correct to withhold support from any democrat (including Sanders) who will not support his set of policies

[Gothmog]

72. Laypersons lecturing lawyers on the law are always amusing

Thank you for the laughs

[uponit7771]

62. +1, in so many ways...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

58. That would greatly damage Obama's legacy, and the President isn't stupid. The article is bunk.

[last1standing]

70. If Obama chooses not to support the Democratic nominee, he will look small and inconsequential.

I think he will find a way to support the Democratic nominee, whomever that is.

[Gothmog]

73. Sanders is appealing for votes in 90+% white states because he is not polling well in other states

Sanders is simply not likely to be the nominee. Sanders is only polling well in four states with 90+% white voting populations and these four states have less than one half of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention compared to Texas

[last1standing]

82. I know, black people hate Bernie. (Yawn).

I tend to give people of every ethnicity the credit and respect to believe each will make up his or her mind based on the facts, not what color skin they were born with.

You think differently. I hope for everyone's sake that your kind of racially based triangulation fails.

[Gothmog]

84. Polling is important and Sanders is only appealing to a very narrow demographic

I am sorry if you dislike these facts. The polling shows that Sanders is only doing well in four states with 90+% white voting populations and is polling poorly in all other states.

[Enrique]

74. what a dumb analysis by Politico

if Obama wanted to campaign for Bernie, he would obviously do so. His editorial is not a binding contract and there's about a million miles of wriggle room in it anyway

[libdem4life]

83. Have I not read and heard that the NRA gives Bernie like a D- or some such abysmal rating?

Other than picking at 40 year-old nits, and the recent need for clever gotchas and did to-did not ad infinitum, who really is the expert in this little discussion. Some DUers with axes to grind, or guns to polish, or the NRA?