2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders’ Defense of His Pro-Gun, Pro-NRA Votes Was Absolutely Terrible
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/10/13/bernie_sanders_on_guns_at_the_debate.htmlDated but still relevant.
Excerpt:
Although Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has positioned himself as a more liberal alternative to Hillary Clinton, he stands on the conservative side of one key issue: gun control. In 2005, Sanders voted for the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, a terrible law that shields gun sellers and manufacturers from legal liability in most lawsuits. Before the PLCAA, many states allowed victims of gun violence to sue gun sellers who negligently entrusted potentially dangerous individuals with firearms and ammunition. The law effectively nullified the majority of these state protections. Clinton voted against it. Sanders has continued to defend it.
Given this stark distinction, you might expect Sanders to prepare a strong defense when questioned about his record on guns. Instead, when the topic arose during Tuesdays Las Vegas debate, Sanders fumbled, raising his typical retort that he represents a gun-friendly state but supports gun control elsewhere.
This answer is pretty much the worst one Sanders could possibly provide. By alleging that urban areas need stricter gun laws than rural ones, the senator adds an awkward racial undertone to the gun debate. Vermontwhich, Sanders claims, can handle loose gun restrictionsis 1 percent black. Baltimorewhich Sanders has cited as an area in need of stricter gun controlis about 64 percent black. Its alarmingly easy to read Sanders rejoinder here as an implication that rural whites can be trusted with guns and urban blacks cannot be.
Whats worse, Sanders defense of his pro-gun votes doesnt actually make any sense. The PLCAA did not only protect gun sellers in Vermont. It protected gun sellers in every state in America. Thanks to the PLCAA, it doesnt matter whether a gun store negligently sells 4,000 rounds of ammunition to a lunatic in Vermont or Maryland. The store is protected from a lawsuit thanks to the law Sanders still supports.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Unless gun owners are a corporation, own a big bank or have an oligarch, Sanders does not care.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Must be coordinating or something. The dozen other times this has been posted is not enough.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)As soon as I heard the news about the polls in IA and NH this morning I knew they would regurgitate the old Bernie's a "gun nut" meme.
WHACK WHACK WHACK that dead horse!
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Almost like a memo went out or they are coordinating on another site.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Attacks on Bernie's family are also making the rounds.
I love the smell of desperation in the morning.
snoringvoter
(178 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)In the last two days? It is very easy to see the pattern that team Hillary is doing here.
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)So you admit you just lied in your other reply, nice of you
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)snoringvoter
(178 posts)[font color="white" size="5"]WORLD POLICE *fuck yeah!*[/font]
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Doesn't do what people claim it does. It protects gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits, it doesn't protect them from lawsuits based on a defective product. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this law. And people act like Bernie Sanders single-handedly proposed this bill and passed it. 14 Democrats voted in favor, including Rockefeller, Kohl, Salazar and Reid.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)There are 6 exceptions that they always do not care to acknowledge or publicize.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)He is getting back from his conservative position.
LexVegas
(6,121 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)As they can be sued for negligence and safety issues.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
....However, the Nation and the other reports like it dont shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They dont explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if theres a consistency to Sanders positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernies position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.
Yet there is an explanation. Its consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And its in Bernies own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. Housein 1990where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.
In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmens groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle baneven bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmens Clubs.
I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidatesas the Sanders campaign press secretaryand recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in huntinghe previously was mayor of Vermonts biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nations characterization, isnt open-minded.
As you can see, Berniewho moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960shas an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. Hes not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jockbeing captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/
Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernieto test his mettle after Smiths about-face.
Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation? he asked. Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?
Yes, he replied. Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsmans Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
I said that before the election, he continued. The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We dont know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.
I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades
WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:
A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."
Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just dont think the state itself, whether its the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/
If he's a pro-NRA/pro-gun politician why did the NRA give him a lifetime D- rating?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Will deflect or insult if they do.