Why I don't care about Bernie's position on guns - at all.

[EdwardBernays]

I know there's a LOT of talk - from Clinton, from Obama - on guns. Clinton is now - I think fairly laughably - campaigning on her belief in "common sense" gun control i.e. Obama's executive actions.

And Bernie is considered - and has been by many people, even his supporters - as weaker on gun control.

Here's a few reasons why I don't care.

- Neither of them is serious about gun control. Pretending that what Obama did is going to meaningfully lower gun deaths is IMO nonsense. That's part of the reason no one that supports it can or will state it's goals. How many people will be saved, how many less guns will reach criminals, etc., etc. It's an unserious approach to a serious problem and as such it isn't any better than Sanders position. Campaigning on it, like it's some huge leap forward is just politicking, and it's politicking on the back of tens of thousands of dead Americans. Gross. Oh yeah, and there's a pretty decent chance it will backfire. But that's a different conversation.

- If Hillary beats Sanders because of guns, then loses to the GOP candidate, which seems to be an increasingly likely outcome if she's the nominee, President Trump will just erase the new gun laws immediately. How is that a win for gun control?

- Sanders position is much more likely to win him middle of the road voters. They see Clinton and Obama demanding he sign up to Obama's executive action plan and him being cautious as a good thing.Wanna win the primary? Win independents. In this case - and in many others - Clinton positioning herself as the "Party favourite" is backfiring. 2016 is going to be about outsiders and Clintons pandering to the base is not a position that will help her in a GE.

Saying all of that, I do NOT think Bernie's position of guns is correct, at all. I do not support it, but considering no one is offering something better I just don't think it's a meaningful factor when deciding between the two of them. I also don't think that anyone serious about gun control should be praising their candidates positions, because neither will reduce gun violence in a meaningful way.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

1. I support Sanders, but I part ways with him on many gun issues.

But still, I'm glad he's not willing to lower himself and lie to me and to other liberals because he thinks that's what we want to hear. I respect him for that.

[EdwardBernays]

5. I would tend

to agree... I think people want an iconoclast candidate, someone as genuine as our process allows for, and that in 2016 is Bernie.

[CorporatistNation]

10. The Gun Issue Is Just Another "Shiny Object," A Distraction... Let's Talk About Wall Street Hillary

Agree w/ post Bernie's more nuanced position has a much better chance of actually accomplishing something... Hillary's position will only get her more crushed in the GE. Bernie attracts crossover repubs and Indys while Hillary attracts votes specifically AGAINST HER! KAND R

[EdwardBernays]

14. Totally agree

Her "position" is a liability in the GE.

[Kalidurga]

2. Focusing on gun violence is not a good thing IMO

The problem is violence. I think the focus has to be on reducing overall violence. Most people will never be a victim of gun violence. But, many many people have and are victims of other kinds of violence. Intimate partner violence accounts for 15% of all violent crime more at link http://www.ncadv.org/learn/statistics Domestic violence impacts millions of lives every year. Yet, that is barely talked about. Then there is bullying at schools which was talked about for a while and dropped. Almost everyone I know was bullied at some point during their school years. We live in a very violent culture and until that changes a lot of people are going to die either by gun fire or other means.

[EdwardBernays]

4. well..

I definitely think the US in unique in that respect, insofar as other countries CAN have relatively a lot of gun per capita, and not have the same rate of gun violence. However. I personally don't think that's an argument against gun control.

I DO think that the culture of violence needs to be addressed, but.. I'm also the kind of person that seem 20-30K Americans die every year at the end of a gun and wonders, "how long can we wait trying to fix out culture, while thousands of kids die yearly?"

In other words, I think that gun laws need radical reform, because Americans specifically can't handle them, and losing as many people to guns as we lost on 9/11, every 33 days, is just not acceptable.

But there's not a single candidate running that is offering me hope on guns - neither does Obama.

[Duckhunter935]

3. I agree with Bernie

Very reasonable with the exception of the cosmetic feature ban.

[EdwardBernays]

7. good

I mean, I'm glad his position is resonating with you... it probably resonates with lots of people.

[beam me up scottie]

6. I agree with Bernie's pro-gun control positions.

His record has been consistent unlike Hillary who pandered to gun nuts in 2008 and changes her postions depending on polls.

If she wins the nomination she'll do another 180 and start bragging about her hunting escapades again.

If I was a one issue voter and gun control was my focus I would support O'Malley.

[EdwardBernays]

8. agreed

except for the O'Malley bit... I don't really see his position as much more meaningful.. however.. I do really think his willingness to put some numbers out there is a HUGE step in the right direction... but it's not enough to make me support him.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Unlike Hillary O'Malley actually did something about gun violence.

elleng posted about his record before, so I would trust him more to continue to press the issue.

But like I said, this Vermonter is fine with Bernie.

Good op.

[EdwardBernays]

13. Sure sure

It's just about quantity of reduced violence and death.

I don't see him being able to reduce it in any great quantity with his proposals.

[beam me up scottie]

15. I don't either.

There are no easy solutions, and any Democratic president is going to face the same kind of obstructionism as Obama if they try to address the issue.

[EdwardBernays]

16. 100%

and therein lies the rub

[Vinca]

9. I don't know that I disagree with Bernie's position on manufacturers and sellers so much.

Maybe it needs to be clarified though. Manufacturers should, of course, be able to be sued for a defective product. But should they be sued when a criminal somehow gets one of the guns they've manufactured and kills someone intentionally? Would Ford be sued if a person ran someone over intentionally? Sellers are in a different position and shouldn't be liable unless they knowingly sold a gun to someone who isn't supposed to have it. If they sell one to a perfectly vetted buyer and then the buyer blows his brains out, it's not the gun seller's problem. He sold a legal product and followed all the rules. Personally, I would like all guns removed from private hands, but we know that isn't going to happen so we have to deal with life as it is, not as we wish it would be. The one thing that would make a difference would be mandatory gun licensure with training and liability insurance. Each gun purchased would be licensed at the point of sale so a person buying 50 guns to distribute around at a profit would be liable for everything those 50 guns ever do when not licensed to another person. Neither candidate is proposing that.

[EdwardBernays]

12. I'm not sure

That all handguns could never be removed from private hands, in a "entire history of America" time frame.

Americans have no interest in that now though.

Neither candidate, in fact no candidate, is proposing anything that would reduce gun violence by even 10% I believe. So to me it's all much of a muchness.

[Duckhunter935]

17. the PLCAA allows lawsuits

Just like the kind you stated.

[leftofcool]

18. Guns issues and women's issues are just not important to Bernie

[EdwardBernays]

19. I'm not sure about Women's Issues...?

Can you tell me what specifically you mean? I'm curious.

[leftofcool]

20. He never mentions women's issues in any speech.

To my knowledge, he has never addressed any group or organization devoted to women's issues. Why not pick up the telephone and just call Emily's List or NOW or NARAL or Planned Parenthood and say "Hey let's talk so you can tell me what's important to you." Even though Hillary has been endorsed by these groups, think what it would mean to these groups to know that Bernie/a male candidate was on their side.

[EdwardBernays]

21. Fair enough.

Are his policies different to Clintons as well re women?