Radical Feminism is Dead — Right….

[seabeyond]

Last edited Mon Feb 18, 2013, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I was recently informed by a male “feminist” that radical feminism is redundant/dead/outdated/no longer relevant. Oh, yeah? As long as there is rape, murder, beatings, femicide, honor killings, prostitution, porn, trafficking, arranged marriages, female genital mutilation, and…MRA action… we aren’t done yet and we’re just getting fucking started.

A new wave of young women ARE catching on to carry this into the next generation. I have witnessed a multitude of radical feminist groups and activist circles spring up just in the past couple of months. The new generation is welcomed with open arms by the sisters who have been at this for decades. We’ve got the internet now to let us know just how bad the problem is. We’re reading the news, we’re watching, and we’re pissed.

*

And the libfems are getting more suspicious of this dubious male version of feminism every day. Watching them radicalize right in front of me daily. We’re catching on, d00dbros. You know what we’re sick of? Being mansplained to about feminism from men who will turn around and smack us the next minute. Know what we’re starting to realize? Feminism got hijacked by men right when our sisters were introducing legislation banning pornography and decriminalizing prostitution, putting the onus on the Johns to own up to their misogyny and abuse. Miraculous how the moment the wave pierces the crux of some major problems, we see a nice split with MEN not-so-ironically carrying the torches on the front lines. There are white upper class men teaching women’s studies now.

*

And when every damn day I wake up, check the news, and hear about women—my sisters—being raped, killed, tortured, maimed, and violated by male systems, you better believe we are getting fed the fuck up and we are looking for answers. We pick up the work of our foresisters, make the damn connections, and get into the fight. I personally know HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of radical feminists and MANY of them came from liberal feminism just in the past couple of years. Ages range from 16 to 71 (just out of the ones I know personally). We get it. Undoing 5,000+ years of male rule won’t happen overnight and anyways we have coffee. You better start thinking about how you’re going to evolve, men, because we’re not going to sit around and wait for your approval—check with the unicorns on our team for some pointers. Unchain our sisters cause we’re marching, we’re coming, and we’re not smiling.

http://feministninja.tumblr.com/post/41004198951/radical-feminism-is-dead-right


i LIKE this woman. hear me roar





edit... this was sent to me from another,

[LiberalEsto]

1. They wish we pesky women would shut up

go home, and bake cakes.
Ain't happening.

[seabeyond]

4. backlash. it is being worked as hard and fast as it can be, for sure, nt

[Helen Reddy]

2. It would be helpful

if women would stop yelling at each other. There is much horizontal hostility now in certain rad-fem circles and it saddens me greatly to see this. Perhaps a new wave of understanding can come from this turbulence.

Thank you for posting this.

[seabeyond]

3. are there in the rad fem movement?

i didnt know.

but, yes. i hear what you are saying. i wish that also. even in disagreement, i think it can be done.

i have really liked hearing the youths voice, world wide.

[ZombieHorde]

6. I took a class on the rhetoric and history of Second Wave Feminism,

and our professor told us that infighting in any oppressed group is extremely common. The article we read about it suggested that the frustration which comes from oppression promotes an aggressive atmosphere.

What are your thoughts on that explanation?

[Helen Reddy]

9. That's great you are taking interest.

I will refrain from discussing any specific rad-fem politics here on D.U. The smackdown of pro-women memes in many a thread is not conducive to good and healthy conversation.

DU is not a place for radical feminists, I realize this. When I come here, I try and encourage positive dialogue about women's concerns.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Questions for those who were politically aware during the 60s:

Is radical feminism different now than how it was during the 60s?

How does radical feminism differ from other types of feminism then and now?

[seabeyond]

7. izzz a baby. didnt know nuthing 'bout nuthin'. lol.

i will think about further discussion with other feminism to radfem and get back to you.

[ZombieHorde]

8. Awesome. Thanks. nt

[redqueen]

10. Do your own homework!

LOL j/k

BTW, I agree with your professor re: infighting. Radical feminism is not inviting. It is depressing. It is choosing not to comfortably shield oneself from the myriad forms of oppression, which yes many would label small or petty, but which add up to what seems like a death by a thousand cuts type situation. Many radical feminists are prone to burnout. Many are prone to bouts of anger and depression. If we are lucky enough to find a group of like minded and similarly tempered souls we can seek comfort and reassurance from others in the group, but there are so many issues and so many possible views on those issues that it is challenging to find a group that one can gel with and feel at home and part of the group.

One thing is for certain, at some point your views WILL be attacked, harshly. If you haven't managed to separate yourself from your views, then it can seem as if you are personally being attacked. IMO it is this situation, more than any other, is at the heart of many of the conflicts in the movement. Agreeing to disagree amicably is an important skill to have.

Sorry for babbling.

[ZombieHorde]

33. Thanks for the comments, redqueen! nt

[seabeyond]

38. i have spent a lifetime

watching behavior and seeing how it affects us individually and as a whole.

when stepping into feminism, it was because i saw our society had shifted from progression of women to a backlash toward women in the early 2000's. i had no knowledge of other groups approaches to feminist issues. i assumed that all women saw it, and saw it the same way or they were not feminists, but oppressed living in a world of acceptance because of personal experiences or the unwillingness to be confrontational and take it on.

i have raised children, watching how their environment shapes who they are.

i have spent a lifetime shedding those cloaks that i have been given.

i see radfem going to the core of the creation of creating the control/dominance of men and doing it by demeaning, degrading, subjugating, creating a false image of who we are.

i see radfem as addressing that core. until we are able to distill the myths that we have created, we will never have an equality. liberal feminist go after changing the legal system. spiritual goes after goddess/man/woman who we are (which is kinda fun). but, what i have seen today, that i think has backfired and has many 3rd wave feminist addressing, is this feminism is individual and believing the battle against women is over.

i have never agreed that to address any issue, it is thru individualism. a movement cannot be had, and accomplishments cannot be made if it is all on individual preference in the name of a groups advancement. in so many areas of my life, individual choice, as a family, a community, a nation, taking the greater good of the whole, rather than the individual choice, create progression.

i had no idea what all these groups are and over the last year have listened and read on the subject. rad fem is not all that radical. those that see it as women being radical are not familiar with the definition. but, radfem is the feminism that challenges us at the core of who we see we are. and that is the most "fearful" challenge for so many. to walk away from the comfort of the definition that society gives us.

[Demeter]

11. The Reports of the Death of Feminism Are Greatly Exaggerated

and reoccur at least once a decade....

Mark Twain would be the first to admit it. He was a feminist before there was a word for it.

[seabeyond]

15. "Death of Feminism Are Greatly Exaggerated". interesting. i hadnt been paying attention. nt

[ismnotwasm]

12. I had always considered myself a liberal feminist

Then along came dubya and co. And I discovered I had magically shifted to 'radical feminist' I didn't care. One of the great joys as well as benefits of BEING a feminist is you get to define yourself. Set yourself free.

Sure there are perimeters, but its a far more inclusive community than its given credit for. I like feminists. I like being around feminists. Women who self identify as feminist are a living story.
Radical feminists often identify with left fringe politics, such as Socialism ( which shouldn't be considered fringe--but there you are) you'd think they'd fit in better here, given the arguments about liberalism and progressivism. I like men who like feminists. Mostly because I love a thinking man as well as a thinking women who is open to the other.

See the main feminist dialogue, one part that centers around rape and abuse, is actually the story of WHY these things occur. Once you know why, or even part of the why, there is action to to take, words to speak. This makes some uncomfortable. Mighty uncomfortable. Makes some indignant or angry.

That's cool. It's been that way for a long while.

But this coming up generation--- they know, like the article points out. These young women who got into male dominated fields thinking all is well, we don't need feminism Anymore..

BAM, there it is, patriarchy in all its sexist glory. Some may try to play nice, some dislike confrontation, some may be afraid. Some justify actions by claiming empowerment, although you can't choose objectification when you're born objectified, as Twisty, RadFem extraordinaire point out. Some may not even see a problem.

The Republicans have done themselves no favors with their incredibly Shitty approach to women's issues, and have done feminists everywhere a significant favor by showing just the tip of the proverbial iceberg of how bad it COULD get. What the ass end of heterosexist reasoning really looks like.

Women are getting it. We here, no matter which school of feminist thought we claim, are getting it. There is plenty of common ground.

And I believe by sharing stories and perceptions and experiences is where we find this large common area, but also where we differ and, that word again, WHY this is so. Only in this case, by sharing common ground, the differences don't have to be adversarial--or at least not always-- because you see, we are rebuilding the world. And a little confrontation now and again isn't going to hurt, we have our own journeys. The destination now--call it freedom, and equal human rights for women everywhere (a big umbrella term) That will be something to see.

As it is now, I only get to experience it in science fiction.

[seabeyond]

16. i think our men fems have told us we are not suppose to like twisty. she said something somewhere

that they found objectionable, lol, . when i started reading her stuff, i was having a blast with her voice. it was a time i realized how many of our women feminist are dismissed by our men feminists and we are suppose to reject these women or have our sexuality attacked and demeaned and degraded with a whole lot of adjectives.

it was only over the last year or more that i did the research and learned about the battlin' feminism. mine was not about learned feminism but where i saw the issue in our society. in addressing that, i had been defined.

when i actually looked up radfem, i learned, not so much radical in that feminism, lol.

[Bonobo]

13. Was there a problem with the photo in the article?

The character from The Walking Dead who walks with 2 half naked African American male zombies with their arms and lower jaws cut off... Is she the image best suited to selling this radical feminism the article speaks of? Perhaps.

Here is the picture from the article:


And here is Michonne with her half naked mutilated African American slaves.

[seabeyond]

14. you tell me. is there a problem with a woman warrior?

i do not watch stupid ass movies like this. i do not like violence and i do not watch this shit. you seem to know it. what does that have to do with anything.

a woman warrior. is it not acceptable? seeing how men are battling all the time. what would be the problem?



i put the cat photo up to go with .... hear me roar.

so what is your problem?

you seem to go out of your way to find an offense that is not there. there is plenty within the actual article for you to be offended with. address that instead of some stupid ass photo from some stupid ass show that has nothing to do with the article.

[Bonobo]

17. "Nothing to do with the article"

It was chosen by the author.

If there was an article about how men need to reassert dominance in the household and it showed a muscular man slicing up a topless female zombie, would you say that it had nothing to do with the article?

Would you say "Is there something wrong with a female warrior?"

Of course not, so stop being disingenuous. It is unworthy of you to pretend there is not an offensive subtext.

I like your cat photo. I did not like the photo of an angry woman slicing up a man.

[redqueen]

18. They're not "African American slaves" or even "men". They're fucking zombies.

Jesus fucking Christ. Talk about manufactured outrage and trying so hard for something to whine about.

At least be fucking honest with your criticisms. She is a fierce warrior who kills ZOMBIES.

[seabeyond]

19. you are really stretching here. it is from a movie, a woman warrior.

and ya... topless (cute) is not the same as much as you would like to make it.

woman warrior. problem? no. i suggest you are being disingenuous. so stop. pretending there is offense where there is not.

[ZombieHorde]

37. I know you don't consume Walking Dead media, so I'll clue you in.

The woman in those pics is Michonne. The two leashed zombies were her boyfriend and his best friend, when they were alive. She loved her boyfriend very much. She keeps them on a leash because they make the other zombies less attracted to her. She never says anything sexist about men or women, and she often risks her life to help other people.

In the TV show, she is extremely stubborn, and in the comic, she is a little bit crazy, but most of the main characters in the comic are a little bit crazy due to all the death and horror.

She does kill a lot of zombies, and a few human villains, but she doesn't just go around slaughtering men.

Just a little fyi, so you know what is going on in those pics.

[seabeyond]

39. thank you for this information. i had no idea, but it is sounding even less like an issue

from your description. thanks zombie.

personally, i was not into the battlin' mood and why i did not put that picture up. sometimes i can wield a sword, but now... i am feeling empowered by voice, hence the choice of hear me roar, and a kitty.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Of course you do, because, like that NEVER happens

--an angry man slicing up a female in movies-- oh, wait

[Bonobo]

22. It happens in movies, you are right. Too often.

But if it were to be put as a photo in an article about how men need to stand up to women, it would be disgusting.

Similarly, in an article about how women need to stand up and demand equality, a photo of a woman slicing up men is disgusting and exploitative.

[redqueen]

25. Again, she kills ZOMBIES.

This is some fucking pathetic disruption.

[ZombieHorde]

36. They're zombies. Lots and lots of zombies are killed in that story.

Both "male" and "female" zombies are butchered almost every episode/issue.

[ismnotwasm]

20. Fuck no

I can hardly weight until they make 'Feed'

It could be seen as an allegory for the ending of domination of the privileged white male if that's what you mean. He is no where to be seen in the picture--you're correct that IS unusual, the protagonist is both Black and female.

And in control.

Is there a problem with that?

[JTFrog]

30. If disruption and misrepresentation is all you have to offer this group....

maybe you should just stick to doing that in your own little safe haven group.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

At Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:52 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Was there a problem with the photo in the article?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=16217

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

"And here is Michonne with her half naked mutilated African American slaves."

What the fuck. Those aren't slaves or even "men". They are zombies from a fucking T.V. Show. This post and following posts show that he only posted in this group to disrupt and misrepresent. Typical for this poster.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:18 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: When you post flame bait like the OP, expect to get flamed. Good post. No hide.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The OP had the picture of a cat, and while this reply makes no sense within the context of the OP, it does not meet my criteria for something that should be hidden. It is just a stupid reply to the OP.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Not slaves. Zombies. Not real. TV show. About zombies. Not slaves.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: bonobo has issues with women. he feels feminists are an enemy to men. hide it to lock him out of the thread.

[seabeyond]

31. sometmes i find the jury comments very interesting. thanks jt. nt

[ZombieHorde]

35. Walking Dead is awesome. Michonne is awesome.

Like most zombie stories, Walking Dead is very violent, and images of people slaughtering zombies is common place. She is a little crazy in the comic, but most of the main characters are crazy in the comic.

[nomorenomore08]

44. Y'know, Bonobo, more often than not I think you're an okay guy. Even when we disagree.

But butting into a thread with irrelevant, distracting comments isn't the best way of presenting oneself. And I would say the same if I saw someone from HoF doing it in the Men's Group.

[Helen Reddy]

23. Here we go again......

One dude sucking the energy out of the thread. The more we respond to this petulance, the more he derails.

Now...where were we?

[seabeyond]

24. lol. and something that is not even relevant and made up. i am going back up to zombie and answer

him.

you are the best.

[redqueen]

26. Good point. Logic and reason are useless when honest discussion is not the goal. nt

[MadrasT]

29. Some men (and their female champions) try very hard

to vilify and marginalize radical feminism, and to demonize radical feminists.

I have noticed several radfem topics that seem to produce especially intense pushback and arouse the ire of those men.

Encountering ideas that challenge millennia of male privilege seems to be quite a problem for some.

[boston bean]

34. They like to interchange feminist separatists

and radical feminists.

There is a difference.

There is a strain of radfems that are feminist separatists. However, I don't think that anyone here in this group is a feminist separatist. That seems to be the erroneous conflation that is flung about quite vigorously.

[seabeyond]

42. i had to look up Separatist feminism. thank you BB. you are right.

Separatist feminism is a form of radical feminism that holds that opposition to patriarchy is best done through focusing exclusively on women and girls.[1] Some separatist feminists do not believe that men can make positive contributions to the feminist movement and that even well-intentioned men replicate the dynamics of patriarchy.[2][verification needed] Author Marilyn Frye describes separatist feminism as "separation of various sorts or modes from men and from institutions, relationships, roles and activities that are male-defined, male-dominated, and operating for the benefit of males and the maintenance of male privilege—this separation being initiated or maintained, at will, by women."[3]

this is interesting. in what i read yesterday, having been challenged in this discussion elsewhere, i was seeing radfem as a whole being defined in the separatist belief. and it was not jiving. what i pulled out from this though, was it is the radfem that gets the ball moving in ALL the other groups. radfem is very much needed in our movement though they are not the whole. but, reading about the separatists, they do have a voice also that needs to be heard, though we may not agree with the whole of what they are saying.

i have yet to hear that we should separate from men. anywhere. i think we ALL feel that men are a very big part of the movement. and without addressing mens issue it would be a fail. i know as a mother of two boys, it is very important in my world.

thanks....

[redqueen]

40. You'd think they don't know how to google or read.

It's laughable and pathetic.

[seabeyond]

41. radfem challenges the very core of who we are. how we identify with self. many feel it an attack

on perception of id thru the ego.

the reactions received, for me, are pretty strong indicators that we are right on, in the core of the issue. and why we see such a strong backlash to the point of unreasonable. holding onto myths for all it is worth, regardless of being proven wrong.

[redqueen]

43. Kick

[seabeyond]

45. helen reddy. do you see? i miss helen reddy. so...