Why Guys Really Hate Being Called ‘Creepy’

[seabeyond]

As Jessica Wakeman discovered last week when she wrote about a first date gone wrong, the MRAs are up in arms about "creep-shaming." "The ability to label men as ‘creepy' is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society," says one apparently anguished man on Reddit. Creep is "the worst casual insult that can be tossed at a guy" claims Jeremy Paul Gordon at the Hairpin. "Douchebag," "asshole," and "pussy" can't compare, Gordon insists, largely because the charge of "creep" is so much more difficult to disprove. These guys argue that "creep" has a greater power to wound than any other word, and yet it's tossed around with cavalier impunity by cruel women who ought to know better. Thus the campaign (particularly big on Tumblr, apparently) to bring awareness to the ongoing tragedy of creep-shaming.

*

One reason men despise the word "creep" so much more than any other insult is that it isn't rooted in misogyny. Jeremy Paul Gordon specifically compared the term to "pussy," "douchebag," and "asshole." The first two words, when directed at a man, insult him by comparing him either to a vagina or a device used to clean one; their pejorative power lies in the way they feminize the guy who gets called one of these names. "Asshole," as the historian Rictor Norton has suggested, is rooted in a derogatory term for men who allowed themselves to be anally fucked. A man who gets penetrated behaves like a woman and is labeled as feminine — a fate that we raise small American boys to fear more than almost anything else. (This is why, of course, words like "bitch" or "pussy" when used by one man to another, are so much more likelier to lead to blows than "dick" or "prick." Men are unlikely to be enraged by references to their own anatomy, only to a woman's.)

So if fear of the feminine is what gives male insults their power, why then is "creep" worse than "pussy?" The answer is that creep is the only insult that instantly centers women's perceptions. To call a man a "pussy" is to make a comment about how his behavior appears; to call him "creepy" is to name how he makes women feel. If a man wants to disprove that he's a "pussy," all he has to do is act with sufficient macho swagger or courage to make the insult obviously inappropriate. But trying to disprove "creepy" involves trying to talk a woman out of an instinctual response to a potential threat, a much more difficult thing to do. Most men recognize (or eventually learn) that the harder they try to deny their creepiness, the creepier they appear.

*

Though the word may be occasionally used unfairly (for example, to describe a physically unattractive guy's genuinely respectful attempt at striking up a conversation), "creepy" serves a vital function. No other word is as effective as describing when a man has crossed a woman's boundary; no other word forces a man to reflect on how his behavior makes other people feel. A guy can disprove accusations of being weak by displaying strength (often in foolish ways.) But a guy can only disprove the charge of creepiness by fundamentally altering his behavior to be more genuinely respectful of women. This, of course, is why some guys hate the word so much; it forces men to reflect carefully about how they make women feel. No wonder then that so many guys are campaigning against "creep-shaming." After all, the sooner the term becomes socially unacceptable, the sooner men can get back to not having to think about women's boundaries.

http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-really-hate-being-called-creepy
____________________________

The Soapbox: Why “Creep Shaming” Is Total BS

“Creep shamed”? I thought. I know that term from somewhere. Where is it …? Oh, right, it’s a “men’s rights activist” term. But I wanted to know more.

*

So I did a little Googling. This post from a blog called Exposing Feminism, “The Catalogue Of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics,” is a pretty thorough list of the various “shaming tactics” that women supposedly use to abuse men, such as comments like “You make me feel afraid” or ”You’re are so immature!” If you are wary of ripping open your appendectomy stitches from all the laughter, another good, concise definition of “creep shaming” is this quote off of Reddit which makes the rounds on Tumblr in the feminist circles:

Creep shaming is probably one of the most insidious and anti-equality things you can do. The ability to label men as “creepy” is just one privilege that women enjoy and [is a] constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society.

Allow me to translate: “creep shaming” is a word, oft-employed by “men’s rights activists” and their sympathizers, as a way to make men the victims of women and their womanly, emotional, irrational craziness. At its core, claiming “creep shame” and their apparently “constant” fear of ostracism prevents men from being held accountable for their behavior.

http://www.thefrisky.com/2012-04-11/the-soapbox-why-creep-shaming-is-total-bs/
______________________________

creep came up on a du thread and there was a tad bit of discussion. someone sent me this article on creep.

edit... i just went into another link sent me. i didnt realize this had to do with the movement.

umpteenth edit: i will say, in thought, i take the accusation of creep very seriously. it takes a certain feel and language from a man before i assign the word creep. takes a good distance over the line before i will ever give "creep" to a man. so maybe there is something in this. had never thought about it.

[Scuba]

1. There's a lot of "creepy" guys. Even creepier when no women are around.

Some days it amazes me that women will have anything to do with us.

[seabeyond]

3. because there are tons more men that are not creeps. those are the ones most women will have

something to do with

[Scuba]

5. Thanks. It's true; we're not all creeps.

[Sedona]

2. Creep shaming?

Really? This is from The Onion, right?

[seabeyond]

4. nope. it is a part of movement i am seeing. lol. i didnt know. nt

[pscot]

6. The ongoing tragedy of creep shaming?

If your behavior causes you to live in constant fear of ostracism, maybe a bit of introspection is in order.

[LASlibinSC]

7. MRA?

Mens rights advocates? Thats just creepy!

[seabeyond]

8. lol

you are funny. ya, well, i have read a lot that they have an issue with and it does get down right creepy. they may have a few points, and i am willing to stand up for their equality on those issues, but not a lot. it mostly reduces to dominate and control and the fear of losing it.

[Jester Messiah]

18. Sad that it should be hijacked that way.

Men don't often get a raw deal in our society as compared to some groups, but there are certain injustices that deserve just as much attention as any other issue.

[redqueen]

16. Google "MRA SPLC"

It really is no laughing matter.

On its face, it is. With a little digging you see how serious this stuff is. It's good that at least the SPLC has these people on their radar.

[CrispyQ]

62. Wow. I had no idea.

Thanks for that.

[laconicsax]

20. Yep, and they're a hate group to boot!

The Southern Poverty Law Center added them to the list of hate groups not too long ago.

[Cirque du So-What]

9. I don't see a downside to 'creep-shaming'

as it may be the only pejorative with enough clout to cause true introspection on the part of creeps. Sorry about those who get accused unfairly, but I believe it's used appropriately in most instances.

[seabeyond]

10. isnt it interesting. i have asked my guys, what name can be given to a man that is actually

insulting on a comparative level of the many many names for women. even the many names for men, that really is a jab at women. none.

but, creep is one. and as i say, it only has a certain place.

[saras]

11. Shaming is shaming. Using it to manipulate people makes you a creep, without exception

The real problem with "creep" is that it evokes people's "taboo" mode of thought, which means that, in general, they ACTIVELY REFUSE to ever reconsider the judgment, regardless of the facts about either the accuser or the accused.

The real problem with the article is the concept "guys" - who are as similar to each other as, say, blacks, or South Americans.

Once you're labeled a "creep" you are given, and can usually make, no opportunity whatsoever to change your behavior. The people who labeled you already have an interpretive box to put your behavior in, and they are not going to change it because of anything YOU do. As far as I can tell in the school I'm going to, "creep" is a permanent label, not a behavioral description.

Creep is also worse than many other words because creep is not used against the creepy person themselves, it's spread to others who may know the person - it's rare that someone gets called a creep to their face, compared to how often that judgment is circulated socially without the 'creep' being told of it.

It's really all about political power. It's a weapon, not a tool, so of course the worst people grab it first, whether to use it, or whether to overreact against.

[seabeyond]

13. i dont think it is any more about shaming than any other descriptive word.

there is a behavior creep defines. are we not to be allowed to call out that behavior verbally? that makes no sense.

[redqueen]

15. I agree with her that labeling the person rather than the behavior...

calling the person (not necessarily a guy) a creep is sometimes less accurate than labeling their behavior as creepy.

Then there is the reason the term is most often used, which is to describe men who refuse to acknowledge their behavior is a problem and continue to act as entitled and obnoxious as they please. This is of course why this word actually bothers men. Can't be threatening the entitlement, that's not acceptable.

[snagglepuss]

12. Interesting post.

[seabeyond]

33. i thought it was interesting, too

i had never thought about it. and i had never thought of it that way. but there is a truth in the article, too, i hadnt realized in the usage of the word creep. i have always been hesitant and very specific in my usage. and as redqueen said in a post above, with words spoken, i had been sure to say..... what a person is saying is creepy, not the actual person.

but then, i have seen behavior that i do give the word creep to the person. generally though, creepy behavior.

[LASlibinSC]

14. Sorry !

I didn't mean to imply that it is funny to label someone creepy. Most labels are created with the intention of denigrating or to be hurtful, as was stated above as a tool to be used as a weapon. The post was an poor attempt at humor. Bullying was never my intention. I stand corrected. WORDS MATTER. Again, I am sorry. Thank you.

[jeff47]

17. Uhh...."creep" isn't gender-specific.

I've met creepy women.

Kinda blows the "creep shaming" bullshit out of the water. But MRA idiots never were all that interested in reality.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

19. I'd have to agree- being called creepy is the most hurtful

Dont know overly about a "man's rights' thing though

[CreekDog]

21. I'm impressed that you could find 6 paragraphs on this

[BlueIris]

22. Those pro-misogyny trolls never miss an opportunity to bash women.

Usually while blathering about imaginary "female privilege," which just serves as a blanket term to validate all of the misogyny.

"Creep-shaming" is a non-existent phenomenon. It is something some pathetic people made up in order to justify their obvious fear of members of the opposite sex.

[laconicsax]

23. ^^^^THIS^^^^

[redqueen]

24. Fear?

Resentment I can see. Even hate. But fear, I dunno.

[seabeyond]

25. i think most of our human wrongs resort to a fear.

Last edited Tue May 1, 2012, 10:18 AM - Edit history (1)

ultimately the fear manifest in anger ect... but the core is fear. fear of loss of control cause ultimately one isnt worthy or desirable or wanted. fear without dominance one will be alone. almost everything i can see a path to fear within, when someone chooses to hurt others. and the ironic thing for me is fear is so unreal. it is created and always the past or the future. sittin in the now, there is never a fear. one has to think about what happened and what could happen, not what is.

[redqueen]

26. I see your point.

Given the widespread abuse and harassment its just extremely hard for me to see that as a result of fear.

[MadrasT]

27. From where I sit

To me it looks something like "fear of loss of control".

[BlueIris]

28. I went with 'fear' because

of the way the "creep-shamers" were described. Placed in an imagined position of supposedly limitless power over those poor, oppressed males, depicted as tyrannical. That screams "I am afraid of women."

So does engaging in an endless woman bash-fest...over the Internet. The Internet is like, ahem, a broadcast booth on a radio station. A place for cowards to spew without having to face the people they're insulting.

[gaspee]

49. Exactly

They want to continue to justify their misogynistic behavior with a variant of "women do it too"

[HappyMe]

29. There are a lot of guys that are creeps.

Other side of the token, I know plenty of women that are creeps.
The word is not exclusive to one sex.

[Scout]

30. "The word is not exclusive to one sex." did someone say it was?

why don't you start a thread to discuss women who are creeps?

[HappyMe]

31. Actually, the op implies it and several replies did so too.

And yes, I find some women to be creeps.

[redqueen]

32. The OP is about the sudden whining from men about being 'shamed' by being called creepy.

I don't see many women whining that their sexual advances are spurned and that they're made to feel ashamed as a result.

[Scout]

34. "And yes, I find some women to be creeps."

so start a thread about it.

no one asked, nor doubted, that you find some women to be creeps.

that is not the topic of this thread, as redqueen has already pointed out to you.

[Grisly Bear]

35. I am surprised at you all.

None of you notice what creep actually implies. Asshole implies that under different meeting circumstances you may have hit it off. creep implies that any approach at all is unwarranted by any social dynamic because of the (perceived) difference in league. I.E. that the creep never had, would have, never will have any reason to think they have the right to show interest in a girl and that the said creep should know and accept this by now. now I understand that there are legitimately creepy people out there of both sexes but i don't think many females have been turned down by guys who thought they were creepy when the girl was making a move on them.

[cyberswede]

36. Are you Dutch, by any chance?

Just wondering...

[seabeyond]

38. look at you cyber...

i am seeing a new you, lol. lets see, turn this way and that.

yup.... you are looking good.



thanks.

[MadrasT]

42. I dunno...

Seems kinda creepy that you would sign up and use your new shiny DU account to dig up an old OP in H of F to make your debut post.

Just sayin'.

Oh hey, Welcome to DU.

[seabeyond]

43. men dont have assess to ALL women. not fair, just not fair. nt

[laconicsax]

46. And that, right there, is the source of the nice guy syndrome. n/t

[redqueen]

47. Precisely.

Which explains the (unfortunately, still too-rarely-seen) aggressive confrontation to men doing the nice guy whine.

[seabeyond]

48. and the not so nice guy syndrome. and the downright ugly syndrome. it is really about

the male privilege and having been taught that the count more.

and before the man cries about the hot woman not wanting them or rejecting them, looking down on them, i know no woman that is not in the same range of a man thinking she has a right to him. or feels she has a place to reduce him to a thing to elevate herself. that not quite their woman pretty well knows she is not on the same level and leaves it at the without expectation.

[shcrane71]

45. Welcome to DU!

[mopinko]

37. one of the few names my mother would ever call anyone.

she rarely engaged in any kind of name calling or labeling. but creep was one thing she would call out. she was always right, too.

[seabeyond]

39. that word is held out for a certain feel. there is just something about that word

that pins a certain behavior. it is all in how the other makes on feel.

[mopinko]

40. yup.

daughter has a new boyfriend that gives me the creeps. i just can't get over it. i don't even want to be in the same room with him. he knows this, and wont look me in the eye.

[seabeyond]

41. uh oh....

yuk. bummer for you all.

dontcha just hate that. i trust in you, lol my kids are getting that age. so far it has gone ok, though the one girl oldest fell in love with totally devastated him and broke his heart. he fell too easily, to fast. lesson learned and he is finally on solid ground again.

[mopinko]

44. yeah, i do hate it, but

older daughter had one of those, too. she did eventually figure it out, but not until he had run up her credit card to the limit with cash withdrawls. i didn't do that much to discourage her, because i was the source of all evil at the time. this time, i am not welcoming a creep into my house. i am not throwing him out, but i am not keeping my mouth shut, either.
this kid is just too fragile right now for this shit, and i wish i could just throttle the creep. sigh. but she is 19. she will learn, i guess.

[mopinko]

55. well maybe she will learn.

creep was caught cheating. listen to your mother god damn it!

[seabeyond]

56. was he. a good... and a bummer for her.

i was thinking about you. last year my son fell in love for the first time. totally broke him up. did i say in a post above? anyway it took him a lotta months to get ok with it. she was in his classes. cross country and track so he saw her after. she was feeling good about being the one breaking up so jabs to help her ego.

well, he is over it. and this summer he is having fun. nothing serious. he doesnt want that. but, one day he hung out with two different gals. yesterday another gal and her two friends.

i am thinking this summer is much more different than last, waiting around for his girlfriend. sitting and waiting for a call at the house. ruined the whole summer.

it feels good that he is out and about. he made sure to give his number to many, so he would have things to do. ALL friends.

the healing takes time. i was clueless. i never experienced it. sure was hard for a mom.

hopefully, one cheat and he is not good enough. that it is it for your daughter.

[seabeyond]

50. i want a flame thread. that is all. lol. nt

[redqueen]

51. LOL

[ManyShadesOf]

52. maybe "creepy"

makes them limp

[seabeyond]

53. chicken or the egg. creep makes them limp. limp makes them creepy.

i dunno

[ManyShadesOf]

54. well there's that

the kicker seems to be how THEY feel about thinking about women feel. Other words agitate. This one deflates. Apparently.

[ismnotwasm]

57. If it walks like a creep

Talks like a creep, acts like a creep, my guess would be, it be a creep.

Many women, and I'm one of them, develop a kind of radar for men who are lets say, less than respectful about women in general, no matter what the public front is. For those interested, my husband concurs with my opinions most of the time. It's rare he doesn't see what I see. I know very good men, good friends, who listen to my feminist talk with at least on open mind, if not actual agreement. I have these wonderful fellows as a basis for comparison, a check on my own perceptions.

What MRA's really want is a definition for what is creepy and while women will vary their definitions, regulating women to orifices and body parts in casual conversation is one of mine. Oh, sorry, I forgot I'm supposed to 'lightened up' --my bad.
I rarely automatically label anybody anything, there has to be a basis. A lonely, awkward young man for instance wouldn't be creepy to me, but he might be to a confident young woman, and no, that isn't fair.
The term "creep-shaming" elicits exactly zero sympathy from me as its clearly a not so subtle poke at "slut-shaming". Like the two have anything in common in practice.

[seabeyond]

58. Many women, and I'm one of them, develop a kind of radar

i really think so, too. i dont know if i said this in any of my posts... since this thread was so long AGO, lol. welcome to hof, btw. it is good seeing you here and listening to what you have to say.

but, i agree with your post. and it is not something i hand out often or easily. i do think it is much in the feel, too. not even what is said.

[ismnotwasm]

59. I like this group

I miss DU a little, so I'm trying to visit more often.

[seabeyond]

60. good to hear.

du3 is a rough one, lol. i am finding being within a group, civility is more expected and controlled, allowing discussion. which is really much more preferable to me, anyway. i dont wanna battle. so tired of battlin'.

[laconicsax]

61. I like to think I have excellent creep-dar. n/t

[CrispyQ]

63. Ditto on the creep-dar.

Creep-dar - thanks laconicsax. ~lol

RedQueen nailed it here:

Then there is the reason the term is most often used, which is to describe men who refuse to acknowledge their behavior is a problem and continue to act as entitled and obnoxious as they please. This is of course why this word actually bothers men. Can't be threatening the entitlement, that's not acceptable.

Let me be the first in the thread to say it: Mitt Romney is creepy. Before I found out about the police uniform incident I thought he was just an entitled jerk.

[seabeyond]

64. Mitt Romney is creepy

he is.