when men, who continually attack feminist and use sexism, find the articles of women strippin'

[seabeyond]

in the name of feminism, create OPs to cheer these feminists, it says it all. it is not coy, or clever, or a hidden agenda. it is a very profoundly loud agenda that is clear to so many. yet, there will be those that pretend that they do not get what is going on. because it meets their agenda, also. shut the women up. men that regularly degrade or demean women and are often called on it all of a sudden has an interest in feminism. and the men cheering these OPs on are the very ones that fight for their rights to sexism. and this is always a time when womens voice on du has gotten too loud.

now, there is a lot of pretend that it is an issue with nakedness.

it is clearly not the issue. and repeatedly has been stated it is not an issue. but honesty has no place in any of the discussion. because this is agenda based.

and it goes along with what we have been discussing this last couple weeks about the net. and women daring to call out sexism. and the mens need to put women in their place.

on du, they cannot be blatant with rape/death threats, or pornography. they cannot go beyond a line in crudeness. but, it does not mean we do not repeatedly see the same dichotomy here, that is all over the net. what we are discussing.

what do you think? do you think i am off here?

edit... i am really interested in the behavioral issue of all this. not in a womans right to protest in this manner, or the right or wrong of it. i am really interested in the pattern i so often see on du, that ties to putting women in their place, on the net.

[Helen Reddy]

1. My two coppers sea.

Your continuous albeit thankless standing up for ALL women must be tiring for you.

A massage and sauna may be on your itinerary. Come on, I'll buy the first round.

[seabeyond]

6. literally

beating me down. but then, i imagine a great shout is going out, and that is the intent, for sure.

thank you

always need the

[Helen Reddy]

2. Actually....

I'll buy ALL the rounds, you deserve it.

[redqueen]

3. FEMEN protests porn and prostitution, too, apparently.

Wonder when they'll be posting the articles about those protests, and adding their support to those issues.

[seabeyond]

5. and look when i type in femen protest porn ALL i get is naked women here. not a single article

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=femen+protest+porn&oq=femen+protest+porn&gs_l=hp.12...1165.6748.0.8774.18.13.0.5.5.0.271.1543.7j5j1.13.0...0.0...1c.1.7.psy-ab.diK7CyolcQU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44442042,d.eWU&fp=2cd102bc4541a982&biw=1600&bih=775

about their actual opinion on porn. well, honestly, i stopped about half way down.

nah, nothing here to see folks.

[redqueen]

10. And yet here on DU we see so much blathering about how *effective* it is.

[seabeyond]

12. ya. strippin = stripper = accusing protesters of being strippers. which i didnt.

then the very implication of that accusation as if that would be horribly wrong to associate the protesters as strippers, when we respect our strippers.... remember? lol. geez the undercurrent of sexism feeding off itself to find outrage with us.

[redqueen]

13. You know there are a handful of DUers who like to pretend that we hate sex workers.

It's dumb as fuck but it suits their agenda. Gotta catapult that propaganda if you want to keep people divided.

[Roland99]

22. Oh, they're only supposed to protest porn?

sex tourism in the Ukraine
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/20/naked-female-warrior-femen-topless-protesters

Homophobic pope:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/topless-women-protest-conclave-vatican_n_2861855.html

womanizing Berlusconi:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/24/femen-protest-berlusconi-topless-activists-italian-elections_n_2752928.html

World Economic Forum in Davos:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/slideshow/ukrainian-female-group-femen-protest-topless-15468165

[redqueen]

26. NO!

THE POINT is that THOSE articles don't get exposure.

[Roland99]

30. I found those pretty quickly

matter of a few seconds.

Perhaps they don't protest against pornography. If they have, perhaps you could post some links yourself? If there are no links, perhaps they haven't protested agains porn and perhaps that's why you have an issue with them?


Seems porn is not one of their main concerns but, rather, the sex trade:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/22/femen-topless-warriors-global-feminism

The Femen movement was created in Ukraine in 2008 to protest against sexism, prostitution and the exploitation of women in the former Soviet state.

[redqueen]

80. I'd just like to point out for anyone else reading this display of dumbassery,

that yes, of course they protested porn and prostitution. So obviously this idiotic 'idea' that "perhaps that's why (I) have an issue with them" is just more of the same old shit... one has to hope it's intentional dishonesty because if not... well fucking hell, I guess reading comprehension really is that fucking piss poor around here.

This kind of sanctimonious, two-bit 'intellectualism' is used by far too many on this site to play to the crowd, all too may of whom seem to have absolutely no problem going along with the sham. Either fooled by these weak ass displays or just so filled with hate for certain people here that the facts matter less than scoring points.

I'm so sick of it. I'm sick of the lies. I'm sick of the distortions. I'm sick of people with absolutely no fucking integrity (and who have been shown to have none, yet still go on spreading their lies and shit) smearing other people with those lies and distortions.

sea, you said you come back energized... I came back and looked at Blanche's thread and saw some of the latest sickening posts there and I don't know how you do it... there's just too much flat-out dishonest bullshit being flung in this place. And too many people who are too invested in the bullshit drama they seem to love more than anything to care about what people are actually saying.

[seabeyond]

81. do not cast your pearls before swine. ... per tuesday. and others over the last couple days.

there are many (and there always have been many) that refuse to allow. allow truth, allow info, allow reason, .... allow integrity and honesty.

but, there are also so many that read, listen, think, share. and in that, we learn and grow and shift and change. we have heard so many people speak out the last year, that would never have said what they have.

those people. they count. because they will go out and about and share with sons and daughter. wives and husbands. and all the others.

look, i am looking at the threads and they are one huge boob fest, in all their disrespect and disdain and dishonesty that they put out. we see the purposeful behavior. and we know the damage done.

i see a thread that presents it in such dishonesty and i am sure will be recommended tons.

this is the pretend the board wants to participate in.

they do not want to address actual words used, or reality we sit. and they do not want to be challenged.

meh...

there is the one last night that said listening to you and i changed how he perceives an issue.

that counts. that one person counts.

[seabeyond]

82. you can look at it another way. the last couple months we have been talking about the men

attacking feminists speaking out on any woman issue, challenge "men space". we are experiencing the same here. it is interesting. this is what it is.

now, we do not get the rape and death threats. not allowed. but, they push the nastiness as far as they can and create it as a hostile environment as much as they can, for a site with minimal rules.

it is an interesting perspective. and makes us more aware of exactly how and why it is done. seeing it on a much smaller scale.

[redqueen]

85. Yeah.

But all the back slapping and high fiving... for melodramatically delivered lies and distortions. Fucking annoying bullshit.

[JI7]

84. that is something because many of those same ones have problems

with people who are critical of porn and want to ban prostitution . so what are they cheering them on for ?

[redqueen]

4. And yes, their attempts to shift the debate to whether these women have "the right" to protest this

way is just a red herring. Of course they do, and they have an entirely different environment in which to do so.

We are not in the ME. The focus on 'get your tits out' protesting by Westerners, especially Western men who attack feminists in the same ways that men on the right do... that tells you all you need to know, really.

[seabeyond]

7. i argue the reason i have seen FOUR of these OPS go up, and the noneffectiveness of the protest

and why.

but fuck... who is going to discuss that shit. instead, PRUDE.

[redqueen]

8. And that is also telling. Almost no recognition of the different dynamics

involved in nudity in the ME vs. Western society.

Thoughtless, facile, mindless. Just throwing poop at feminists, and conveniently, they have feminist writers saying that if women have to "get their tits out" to make a point, that that's no big deal.

Yeah, no, actually, to many, many feminists it is. To many feminists, that points to a huge, yet mostly ignored issue.

But on DU, those kinds of feminists are the bad feminists and they deserve to be attacked with impunity.

[ismnotwasm]

9. As a former stripper

If its all good now in the industry, I expect the women are respected in their fields now, never suffer sexist language or unwanted groping, don't need big-ass bouncers to keep the 'clients' in line, don't suffer greater than average intimate partner violence.


That must be happening if things are so empowering now, right? There's no push back against unionizing, no pimps, no component of sexual slavery, especially for immigrants. It's so good, that strippers and other sex workers are completely respected by their clientele

Right?

Because I don't care who calls themselves a feminist, I really don't. To me though feminism is an action word and that action should include keeping my sisters safe, no how much money I personally make.

[seabeyond]

11. lol. i used the word stirippin as taking off clothes. not the professional, paid for strippin.

but, i see it is my bad. cause i have a poster in the thread with the demonstration accusing of me associating the protesters with professional stripper. which i wasnt. i used a word that defines taking off.

i see you misinterpreted also.

i should change the word

[Roland99]

14. Bullshit

you have one MAJOR LEAGUE sized chip on your shoulder if you think ALL men objectify a naked woman as something to ogle.

I posed direct questions to you in that thread ( you know exactly which one) and you failed to respond to anything based on the content of the article posted in the OP of that thread. Rather, you chose to pick on anyone who used any term you found objectionable and even painted me with your broad brush.

[ismnotwasm]

15. All men don't

I know this for a certain fact. Sea's not the one with a chip on her shoulder.

[Roland99]

18. I beg to differ.

[MoclipsHumptulips]

55. And you'd be wrong.

[seabeyond]

16. how does ANY of that have to do with the post you responded to? nothing. it has nothing

to do with my comment about choosing the word strippin, to take off. not professional stripper.

got that? do you understand that point? you jump in with a rant and personal insults that has nothing to do with the post you are replying to.

i had issues and i expressed my issues. when people go to personal insults, fabricating what i say, or an issue i have no problem with or not what i spoke out about, i do not reply.

this is the one and only reply you get, why i do not make comments on your posts. they are irrelevant to what i have said, a fabrication of what i have said or has nothing to do with the post your are replying to, or merely personal attacks.

[Roland99]

17. no, you ran away from the thread and created this one separately to rant on uselessly.

[seabeyond]

19. and still... you nor anyone else has addressed the actual issues that i spoke about. as you

fabricate issues.

when no one actually address what i say, and resort to personal attacks and lies, why should i spend my time continue to reason?

[Roland99]

20. excuse me?!

where you stereotype me:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2583556

where you ignore me (not for the first time):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2583573

[Squinch]

52. Ignore you? What is this? Fatal Attraction? WTF?

If all your posts aren't responded to, you are being ignored?

[MadrasT]

23. If it is so useless why are you in here arguing about it

[redqueen]

24. Can you imagine the response if sea or I chased down everyone who attacked or insulted us?

Yep, I think I've about had it.

You'd think months of coverage of the issues surrounding sexism would result in more awareness. Nope, just more of the same.

[Helen Reddy]

25. redqueen

Understanding we all need a break now and then, join me and sea at the bar to discuss all of this.

You live far from Wisconsin?

[sigmasix]

78. my attitudes have changed

because of a thread about pornography that redqueen and others where in. I used to see it as relatively harmless until I read the information posted by seabeyond and redqueen. I was not aware of some of the newer studies and descriptions of cognitive dis-association that occurs during pornography consumption. Before I joined DU i thought one way about pornography- because of DU and some of it's feminist members my mind is completely changed and I have admitted that I think I was wrong.
Take heart- the change comes one heart at a time- you are getting through.

[Helen Reddy]

27. Dare I say it?

B.I.N.G.O.

[Roland99]

28. Just like to call out BS and fake indignation when I see it

esp. when the poster in question runs away from directly-posed questions and accuses me of certain behaviour.

[ismnotwasm]

41. No worries

I stand by my statement for future reference. I'm posting from my phone at work so serves me right.

[Helen Reddy]

21. Why don't some here on DU

since you upset their sensibilities so much just ignore you?

This space is for like-minded ideas isn't it?

[Helen Reddy]

29. Once again.

A dude sucking all of the air out of the room.

Well ladies, par for the course. Imagine sea visiting 'The Men's Room' on DU and questioning one of their subscribers ad nauseum. Think sea would last long?

[Roland99]

31. I guess you can't see beyond your prejudices

[seabeyond]

32. i have addressed you. in this thread. in the other thread. YOU ignore what i say. it is not what

YOU want to hear and argue. then you continue to go along insulting me and creating something that is not. like, saying i have not addressed. must i repeat the same thing over and over and over again, with every accusation of yours? once is not enough for you.

once, works for me

and still

here you are

in HOF

going thru out the threAD, fabricating something that did not happen and ignoring what i have said to you

[Roland99]

33. no, you haven't replied. I posted two links above.

and I have not insulted you. not once. The exact opposite is true.

[seabeyond]

37. slowly i will say. i pointed out that the coutnry had significance to you men, in arguing my

position. at that point in the thread i had heard it 2 or 3 times. that had nothing to do with what i was debating. where i saw the issue.

my saying, .... that yes, it seemed to be an issue for men was off the fact that seemed to be the argument to what i was saying.

that would not be a personal attack or whatever you claim it to be. that would be me saying, so what.

as far as the post that further talks about the country adn what is happening there, again.... i will say to you. that had NOTHING to do with what i was addressing. nothing. i am not picking up that side of the argument. that is not my issue. that was not what i was point out to be the problem with this.

and again.... for the umpteenth time, i am sure you will ignore what i am saying.

you did equate me to going after strippers. and pointing the protesters as stripper. lie.

that is about all i remember cause there is so much attack about me on that thread, when i was discussing an issue.

this will have to be good enough for you. i wasted way too much time on you.

[Roland99]

43. "to you men"??? really?

The country has meaning based on the fact that the women are putting their lives in danger. Literally!

But, hey, that doesn't matter to you.

[seabeyond]

47. to YOU MEN who brought up the country. FFS.

you do nto know what i think about that and here is MORE of your dishonest fuckin bullshit that you and others throw out at a whim as you call me on....... "to you men"??? really?


"that doesn't matter to you. "

you and others do it over and over and over again. you do not know SHIT what i believe or think. but do not let honesty hit you on the ass on the way out the door.

[seabeyond]

48. and AGAIN.... you addressed NOTHING in my post. nt

[LanternWaste]

87. "BS and fake indignation" are indeed insults.

"BS and fake indignation" are indeed insults. Only and idiot or a liar would pretend otherwise.

However, I do realize many people will pretend to rationalize to themselves that "BS and fake indignation" is a neutral and unbiased observation to more effectively hold others to a higher standard than they hold themselves.

It's certainly understandable to do that... human nature being as fickle as it is and all.

[Helen Reddy]

34. Are you still here sir?

YOU are a fine example of why so many women keep silent on DU. Dare making any analysis on why some women have had it with sexism and misogyny gets exactly what you are hurling at us.

I suggest you start your own thread, in this group, most of us are agreeable on said issues. You are obviously angered by sea, maybe you need a break.

[Roland99]

35. I am angered?

She insulted me. Lumped me in with some type of general knuckle-dragging, testosterone-laden group of men when nothing could be further from the truth.

It's obvious that seabeyond has issues and too quickly generalizes all men.

[Helen Reddy]

36. I do not go over to the men's room

because I KNOW there will be very little agreement between us on issues of sexism. They have their space, their views.

Let us have our space, our views ....here.

[Roland99]

39. someone posted a link to this thread

I didn't notice group name until later.

Fine...have your little area to celebrate your fake indignations

[seabeyond]

38. what is my problem with the protest and du putting them up. quick. do not look back.

because you do not address the issues i have. yet want me to participate in your issues as if i have an obligation.

and if i dont, you state i have issues.

i have issues.

who says i have isseus? oh, wait, you do. now, is that an insult, i ask you.

[Roland99]

40. you never posted anything re: the actual content of the article posted

only your pre-existing prejudices re: women protesting in the nude.

Well, glad to know that all nude protests are worthless and all women are only serving their male superiors.

Thanks for the lesson.

[seabeyond]

42. and you really sit in a quandry why i do not waste time on you. nt

[seabeyond]

44. amazing. you tell me what i say really does not matter. now listen to you, THIS is what

is important.

oh, no, wait. lets started a thread on male privilege and entitlement. i have a wonderful example.

[ismnotwasm]

45. You're welcome

Except for the 'male superior's' and 'all nude photos are worthless part'-- that's some bullshit right there.

[Roland99]

46. Oh...did you really need me to put in the sarcasm smiley?

I figured the rolling eyes would have been enough of a clue.

[hlthe2b]

50. Roland99. You have every right to your opinions but not to berate and insult

in a safe haven group, just to continue a previous argument from GD.

I see from the posts you were made aware that this was a specific safe haven group and that should have directed you to review the SOP for the group as posted at the top of the threads:

The History of Feminism group serves as a safe haven to discuss, and learn the history of feminism. Apply the lessons of historical and modern day feminist struggles to current issues and events that impact women. This group will also serve as safe haven for women (and supporters of feminism) to openly and honestly discuss and learn how the patriarchy affects women individually and collectively.

Every member of the group should do their best to remain civil to one another, even if there is disagreement. There are many strains of thought and theory in feminism and members should try to understand anothers point of view. Members should also take the time to explain a post if it seems to have been misinterpreted.

However, misogyny and sexism will not be tolerated. The History of Feminism is a safe haven group for our members. We welcome vibrant and lively discussions of feminism and womens issues, but disruption of the group will not be allowed. Disruption takes many forms and is sometimes subject to interpretation of intent, but its negative impact is quite easily recognized. Appropriate action, such as warnings and blockings from the group will occur if it is determined a poster is disrupting and/or putting misogyny on display in this group.

In order to halt this disruptive discourse, I am going to block you from this group for the time being. You can, of course contact me directly via DUmail (or my cohost, BostonBean), should you have a desire to work within the SOP and continue to participate.

[seabeyond]

49. you know what roland. this whole thread of your replies is exactly what i am pointing out in my OP.

you are a perfect example of exactly what i was talking about.

thank you for playing

[upaloopa]

51. I don't know how this is going to be received

but the women are naked precisely to draw attention to their protest and their reason for the protest. They know full well what the various reactions will be.
The fact that we know about their positions and their protest is because their nudity drew the attention of the men you describe and I think the protesters expected that and it is the reason they are naked.
It's like they are saying to the men that want to control them "look at us we are naked in spite of your rules to keep us covered and we won't stand for your other attempts to keep us under your control."
If you want to slam me that is your right but I think you are not representing the protest of these women they way they intend it to be taken.

[seabeyond]

53. i do not disagree with a single thing you said. that is not at all the issue or issues i brought up.

i GET why women choose to demonstrate in this manner. and what a fuckin pathetically sad world that the only way a woman can be heard is to strip down for you men to be oogled and that is IF they can be heard in the strippin down, which i propose they cannot be heard. either you have the fuckin immature cat calls we saw in the initial thread letting all the people of du KNOW how they appreciate the nakedness for THEIR fuckin benefit (which this has NOTHING to do with a mans benefit and is the point of denigrating the womens issues) or you have the other side threatening to cut off their breast.

that is what my issue is. that is what i posted about.

NO ONE addressed that but to reduce it to namecalling. the other point i addressed. FOUR fuckin threads on this at a time when women have been speaking up loudly on du. FOUR men decided all of a sudden that they had something to say about feminism. FOUR men that have never had a nice thing to say about feminist or have supported feminism. FOUR OPS on naked women.

do i call that out. fuck ya.

again, NO ONE addressed that point. those are the only two points i made in that thread. that is the point i made in this OP. and still..... crickets. as i am called names.

[upaloopa]

54. I think I understand you

[Texasgal]

56. This is like the week long

"door holding" issue that became so stupid and outlandish as time went on...*sigh*

I wish people would READ the threads instead of knee jerking shit that was never implied.

[seabeyond]

58. and the little followers that support without even knowing what the fuck they are talking about.

yes txgal. since the door opening bullshit. i knew it felt like a long time of the same old shit and done in the same shitty manner. you are right on. then there was the richard thing. anything inbetween.

[JTFrog]

57. Fuck 'em.

Seriously. There are a bunch of ignoramuses just getting off on this shit.

Never sit down. Never shut up.

[seabeyond]

59. when did dishonesty become glorified for so many. nt

[DURHAM D]

60. This

[Sheldon Cooper]

61. Yeah, the smart thing is to make your point and move on.

Engaging with them only encourages the worst of them. Not worth the time nor effort.

[seabeyond]

62. make your point and move on.

yes.

i was doing so well with that. i know better.

make your point and move on.

but but but then i am accused of ignorin' 'em

[Sheldon Cooper]

63. I saw that, and I'm glad that assclown was banned from the group.

He seemed somewhat needy.

[seabeyond]

64. i want to do michelles eye roll all the fuckin' time. i tell you.

i love running across your post not only for the brilliance of who you are, but the eye roll. love it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

65. remember, also

do not cast your pearls before swine.

and also ...

dust off your feet and move on.

[seabeyond]

66. do not cast your pearls before swine.

tomorrow. i need an Op on this one.

maybe, lol.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. and don't worry about them whining that you are ignoring them because - guess what -

you have dusted off your feet and moved on and you can not hear the crybabies.

do not look at the replies in your my posts.

you are fine, seabeyond

you are good people.

you are sincere and honest. you have heart and you care.

[seabeyond]

68. thank you tuesday.

i am off for the night. i have a boring book to finish so i can start a fun one, lol. gotta read until the end.

but, i do want to get back to something said earlier, tomorrow.

thanks.

[BainsBane]

69. feminism is only acceptable when it titillates men

Since they see women as existing only for their sexual gratification. They can also applaud actions in another country while pretending any complaints from women here are illegitimate. One individual went so far as to tell me the death threats against Adria Richards weren't real since they weren't carried out by a government, like being raped or killed doesn't count when it's carried out by a non-governmental actor.
These are people that truly despise women who in any way dare to infringe on their privilege. They can get behind bare breasted protest because it serves as a source of sexual titillation for them. Human equality is the last thing these people care about.
Words do not exist to express my contempt for these people. What has been most devastating is to learn there are so very many of them.

[BainsBane]

70. and women

Some of them are women. That's actually what I find the most difficult to understand.

[Violet_Crumble]

71. Hi Sea, it's been a long while since I've posted here, but I disagree with some of what you've said.

I do believe FEMEN are feminists. I also believe their motives are cynical, but effective. In a country ruled by men where women are treated like subhumans and don't have control of their own bodies, a woman who protests with her body and does it naked is a very powerful message.

OTOH, when I spot someone championing them who I saw a few months ago 'questioning' a woman who said she'd been sexually abused as a child and implying she was lying, then it's pretty obvious that they're picking up a few misogynists who aren't interested in feminism, but in having a perve and ignoring the message...

[seabeyond]

72. i never said they were not feminists. not my call. and the more i have read about this particular

woman, the more i think she would probably not have felt i was to far off what i was saying in my post. she might have had an issue with me saying she does more harm. i would hope that would be a discussion. because i gave examples of other orgs that use women for this, and how it amounts to nothing but men being sexist toward them and any message is drowned out with the cat calls. but, she is well aware (from what i read) that this is a very real problem with the way she demonstrates.

i do not think it helps women as a whole. does it help the women in these other countries? i doubt it. not the way universe manifests. action/reaction. but, that is not what i was addressing in the posts i made.

many times we (as in fellow feminists on du) have disagreed on the effectiveness of slut walks, ownership of sexist slurs, baring to get attention because a woman would not be heard otherwise. we will continue to disagree.

that is part of our movement.

but, the reality is, having been on du for almost a decade and knowing the posters i do, their history, and seeing the pattern when women get too loud, they pull up these threads not to champion the campaign, but using it as a tool, against women. just like they did and are doing now. and they will continue to do. i called them on it. no more.

they have done the very thing i said happens, when women choose this type of demonstration.

we can disagree. but really, that is about as far as i can go to atonement. and ya, i know that is not what you are asking for. that is for elsewhere.

anyway, thanks for jumping in.

[Violet_Crumble]

73. Fair enough. We disagree on methods, but not on the rest of what you said...

And when it comes to what we disagree on, I don't feel the urge to yell at you or anything like that, which is why I'm not touching that GD thread I saw with a ten foot pole. There's plenty more that feminists agree on than not anyway, and that's what people should focus on, imo...

Happy Easter Sea!

[seabeyond]

74. lmao...

thank you violet.

and happy easter to you, also.

[BainsBane]

75. GD is currently a putrid cesspool of misogyny

It makes me physically ill.

[seabeyond]

76. it is making a lot of women sick. after the two pms, and the OP i started, i received another

pm, from another woman. that said she needed to walk away again. that her stomach was in knots and she was feeling physically sick.

and again i will stress... all for fuckin games. this is no more than games, for so many of these duers.

[sigmasix]

79. probably more than a few

DUs membership hovers around 200,000- most members don't post much- so it would be difficult to determine thier opinions in this particular instance. The defense structures of the patriarchy ought to be constantly tested and probed for weaknesses and short-comings that can be used as examples of the insufficiencies and out-right dehumanization inherent in such an arrangement. the sooner people understand the true scope and effects of the patriarchal paradigm, the more apt we are to overcome those defense mechanisms. Progressive men should recognize that the complaints they have about unfairness for men has more to do with the structures of the patriarchy, than it does misandry. Because of the patriarchal social arrangement we are all (men and women) forced to play a gender role that is unrealistic and dehumanizing.

[boston bean]

83. They do not believe that any such patriarchy exists. They are

quite comfortable in proclaiming so.

Very very comfortable that feminists on DU see an phantom patriarchal phallous behind every corner.

They do this with womens issues only though. Cause they can get away with it on DU.. It has basically been approved by admin.

I mean what progressive site that you know of won't write that sexism (atleast) and misogyny is not permitted in their Terms of Service?

[In_The_Wind]

86. Personally, I believe that you are correct. It isn't about going naked.