Marvel Comics Writer Explains Who’s To Blame For Lack Of Female Superheroes

[LanternWaste]

"Think about the manga boom for a minute. The American notion had always been that women would not buy comics in significant numbers. There was even a commonly bandied about notion that "women are not visual." Who bought manga in the US? Largely women and girls. At ten bucks a pop, no less. Women spent literally millions of dollars on what? On comics.

Now, some people will argue that that had as much to do with the diversity of genre in manga as anything else--and that is a fair point. But I would argue that there is nothing inherently masculine about the science fiction aesthetic, nothing inherently masculine about power fantasies or aspirations to heroism.


http://badassdigest.com/2013/02/26/marvel-comics-writer-explains-whos-to-blame-for-lack-of-female-superheroes/





I'm not really a comic book kinda guy... but my four closest friends (still) are, and one sent this to me, and I thought I'd post it here. Wanna see the weirdest sub-culture in the world? Go to a comic book store.

[ismnotwasm]

1. I buy digital

But I'm no comic book sophisticate. I avoid a lot of comics for the same reasons I avoid a lot of movies, my taste is darker and Nihilistic so I kind of like the anti-hero, with a large dollop of cynical humor (Think Preacher) The superhero CBs I like to a certan extent, but it's easy to get lost in the various universes, and women aren't well represented in many of them, so it's hard for me to negotiate through the worlds.


And I agree, Manga has great adventure and a wide variety of stories.

Interestingly, urban fantasy, a genre which I have a love/hate relationship with (if I hear 'alpha male' one more time....) is translating popular series into graphic novels which will pull more women into comics, as women are big readers of this genre.
Stephan Kings 'Gunslinger' is also in graphic novels, although I love the books it's a patriartical world King invented.
Even that loathsome, POS Orsen Scott Card has his 'Ender' series in graphic novels. (I don't care if it makes me an impure reader---I won't buy or read anything that Rightwing nut fucker spews out)


So I expect a wider fan base, with stories men and women can enjoy.

[LanternWaste]

2. I think I may have read everything he's written EXCEPT for The Gunslinger series

About the only comic books I'd read when a bit younger were V for Vendetta and The Watchmen (which, as my friends tell me, are NOT comic books, but graphic novels they say as they roll their eyes at me with a pitiable look given only by True Geeks to lesser nerds like me).

The reason I go into comic book stores is much more embarrassing-- Dungeons and Dragons (blush), which seems to have had its own issues with sexism in its day (think 1979-84, when I was a serious nerd in middle and high school, and the material published was almost as sexist as nudie mags), but does seem to be moving towards a much more gender-neutral tone-- whether that's due to actual enlightenment in the industry or simply appealing to a wider audience for more dollars is a bit beyond my ken.


As an aside: Stephen King is one of my favorite contemporary authors and I think I may have read everything he's written EXCEPT for The Gunslinger series-- I don't really have a reason for that, except that it just hasn't happened... yet.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Isn't D&D making a comeback?

I've read some women bloggers on the topic it seems. And Geek, Nerd---I don't care I like what I like.

And yeah, I'm a huge Stevan King fan. I left him for many years then 'rediscovered' him through the Gunslinger series. The since many of his books are actually part of the Gunslinger universe, I had to go back and reread everything.

Plus, according to his book "On Writing" his wife self identified as a feminist in college, and he married her, which might have helped his ability to write women characters-- both good and bad without making it look like he's trying to hard to write 'strong' women characters. He writes about human beings.

[redqueen]

6. "He writes about human beings." Exactly.

The man is my idol... though I still haven't read the Gunslinger series.

As for comics, I love The Tick. I go to comic conventions and I like a few others, but I only love The Tick.

[seabeyond]

8. i read so many authors/books. and this is the quality in writing.

when one writes as a human being, or a gender role. a big difference in the way i receive the book.

i had fun the other day with an author. twice in different parts of the book had conversation of feminism.

[DonCoquixote]

4. Consider that sci fi was invented by a woman

Mary Shelley, author of Frankenstein.

Also consider that there have been many serious, heavy duty ladies in sci fi, from Theodora Von harrow (Metropolis), Anne Mcaffrey (dragonriders of pern), Marion Zimmer Bradley, Ursula K. Le Guin,

Also, there were males tried to mess with Established women characters in Comics, make them softer, at which point fans like me said "Batgirl/Oracle is intelligent, we like her that way, Wonder Woman is an amazon, we like her that way." Hell, I am looking forward to Avengers @ because Scarlet Witch is going to be in it, the person who has been the LEADER of the team. Throw in Wasp, and we have a aprty. It is funny that Hollywood made Black Widow the female on the group, when people like Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Warbird, Moondragon, and other non cheesecake superheroines could stuff her in a locker room.

[TM99]

5. I appreciate Mary Shelley,

and some may consider it the first Sci Fi (technically it would fit in horror today), yet she was not the inventor of sci fi.

Try Horace Walpole, Cyrano de Bergerac, and John Milton going many centuries before her. Shelly even references Paradise Lost in Frankenstein.

Unlike revisionists today, she recognized the great shoulders she stood upon.

Being the son of an English professor who taught a class on this very topic (Fantasy, Science Fiction, and Gothic Horror), I really dislike untruths passed off to make political points.

[redqueen]

7. Wouldn't it only fit in horror today because the "sci" in it doesn't seem so "sci" to us anymore?

Also the horror in her book is secondary to the point (which I find closer to Blade Runner than Re-Animator). I wish more people recognized that.

[TM99]

10. These categories when properly used

just assist us in grouping together works of fiction so that we can then 'judge' their merits and whether they ultimately become 'classics'.

Frankenstein has far more in common with Re-Animator than it does Blade Runner. The later is using science fiction to tell a very compelling story with regards to consciousness and where does the human begin and end and the computer begin and end.

The former, Re-Animator, is simply a movie adaptation of H.P. Lovecraft's classic short story Herbert West - Re-animator. Lovecraft even states that it was to be a parody of Shelley's Frankenstein but it ended up being, in my estimation, an updated retelling of it. Two scientists struggling with the questions of life and death. Can we, should we, bring someone back to life who is considered dead? The horror occurs after the act is completed. Victor wants to do it shaped by death in his childhood and the arrogance of a brilliant mind consumed. In the end he loses his family, his lover, and his own life and the monster chooses to die as well. West is also obsessed with life and death. He is another brilliant mind consumed but in the end creates only 'zombies' of those who have died. The movie does tie in some nice 'love story' elements in homage to Shelley.

But I do agree that ultimately in any of these great works of fiction, the genre is but the vehicle for the 'point' of the story itself. We could perhaps gently debate the point and agree or disagree there.

[ismnotwasm]

15. Re-Animator is a guilty pleasure

I agree about the Frankenstein part, but Re-Animator is more a dark comedy.


Blade-Runner is cyber-punk. I love cyber-punk, also it has sexist roots, it's evolved. I've read feminist critical of "Cryptonamicon by Neal Stevenson (more alternative history to me) I don't quite understand, I guess they felt let down after "Snow Crash"

[TM99]

18. I admit to loving it as well.

I have a pretty amazing mother. She taught modern & post-modern sci fi, fantasy, horror, etc. for almost 40 years at several universities and colleges in the South. She loved Asimov's writings in particular and had more than an acquaintance relationship with him. I introduced her to cyberpunk after I discovered William Gibson as boy.

While I definitely love Blade-Runner, I must admit to preferring Gibson's writings over Dick's.

I am a cryonics proponent and in many ways a Futurist. I loved Stephenson's The Diamond Age and was very disappointed when the mini series did not pan out on the Sci Fi Channel. Did you ever read it?

[ismnotwasm]

19. Oh yes, a couple of times.

And I'll read it again---as far as Gibson, I'm actually re-reading Necromancer right now because its been a few years.

Dick has some very good stuff--and he as so prolific, I doubt I'll read everything.
I'm actually more of a Roger Zelazny fan even though he's more metaphysics and pure fantasy. I love 'Lord of Light'--it's cynical but cool. And of course the Amber books.

[TM99]

21. Necromancer is excellent

though I still am partial to Mona Lisa Overdrive, the last volume in his trilogy.

I cut my teeth on the Amber books. It was one of the first sets I got when I joined the Science Fiction Book Club as a wee lad. It was a wonderful series though I didn't read much more Zelazny after that.

I think I shall remedy that here soon.

[DonCoquixote]

12. Excellent point

especially since there were people doing exactly what Dr. frankenstein was trying to do:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/11/sciencefictionfantasyandhorror.humanities

[ismnotwasm]

9. That's fascinating

Milton is hard to read, so I see where Shelley would be thought of the pioneer. I've never read Cyrano de Bergernac, although his story is embedded in American culture.

[DonCoquixote]

13. Also, Milton is more fantasy

Since he uses magic, even if it is angels power.

[ismnotwasm]

14. Also embedded in many cultures

Even if people don't understand the reference. Shakespeare could be considered a fantasy writer when I think of it.

Fun!

[TM99]

16. Milton does take some getting used to when reading

that is true.

[DonCoquixote]

11. maybe Milton

but the people you mentioned all relied on magic, fantasy, whereas Shelley was based on science of the day. This was when you had scientist reanimating dead bodies with electricity, thinking they could actually resurrect. Granted, the science did not pan out, but then again, so have many ideas failed to (like flying cars).

And you might want to be careful when you accuse someone of lying to make a political point,as even you admit many people do consider Shelly to be the first Sci Fi writer.

[TM99]

17. Yes, but those people are wrong.

Go read her actual words about how Frankenstein came about.

To refresh your memory, it was a bet to write a 'ghost story' - i.e. 'horror' not science fiction. Frankenstein is taught as a Gothic Horror story - rarely as science fiction. Unless there is a political agenda to have a woman be the first writer of science fiction when she was not.

She was an amazing writer in her own right - influenced by multiple genres and styles. She was friends and loved some of the greats of the Romantic and Gothic era. An untruth to score points as a woman is simply not needed to recognize her greatness and the influence she still holds over so much modern horror writing. King, Barker, Lovecraft, etc. all owe a great debt to her masterful writing and exceptional story-telling abilities.

Furthermore, read Milton a bit closer. It was definitely science fiction in that he looked at the science of its day both as 'good' and as 'bad' or foreboding. Having met Galileo, there are numerous references to astronomical start charts, telescopes, alien life on other planets that Satan passes near, plus the use of science to create weapons of war - the newly created canons and guns.

Shelley too has references to the science of her day and like Milton she could be considered science fiction but rather it is horror as pointed out several places in this thread. Milton is a forerunner of science fiction but also had the fantasy elements of Angels and Demons, which ironically is considered horror today (Supernatural and Constantine come to mind!)

H.G. Wells begins to bring us into purely science fiction territory and the genre really took off after the creation of atomic energy.

[redqueen]

20. Thanks for this thread.

I'm really enjoying the subthread about sci-fi writers and genres.