Why CounterPunch owes women an apology

[boston bean]

BREAST CANCER is no laughing matter--certainly not for the roughly 232,340 U.S. women who will be diagnosed with it this year, or the 39,620 women expected to die from it.

Yet the editors over at the CounterPunch website were apparently guffawing over Angelina Jolie's recent decision to undergo a preventative double mastectomy. Their e-mail promo for an article posted on the site on May 14 reads: "Ruth Fowler unsnaps Angelina Jolie's bra and exposes privilege, health care and tits." Presto! A double mastectomy morphs into locker room fodder.

Fowler's article never actually mentions the word "tits." But like smirking adolescents, the editors insert it yet again in their contemptuous title: "Angelina Jolie Under the Knife: Of Privilege, Health Care and Tits." One can almost hear them howling with laughter at their own perceived cleverness. Presumably they also laughed their way through Seth McFarlane's sophomoric "We saw your boobs" spoof at the Academy Awards, while millions of women cringed.

But using boob jokes to introduce an article about undergoing a double mastectomy to prevent a potentially deadly disease constitutes a descent from sexism to misogyny.

snip....

The essence of this message is entirely lost on the CounterPunch gang. They seem blissfully unconcerned that their own use of the degrading term "tits" is yet more evidence of the damaging impact of the sexual objectification of women. The fact that they do so under the guise of left-wing commentary only compounds this damage.

http://socialistworker.org/2013/05/16/they-owe-women-an-apology

[mercuryblues]

1. Haven't you heard?

Because they are a left leaning site, they are supposed to get a pass when they do stuff like that.

Just sitting here wondering if the author of the OP asked nice enough. I mean the broad brush with using the "CounterPunch gang" instead of *some* at CP. Yes, this article is entirely too aggressive and bound to get some big boy panties in a wad.

[redqueen]

4. Well done.

[oberliner]

31. Counterpunch isn't left-leaning

They are libertarian/paleo-conservative.

[ismnotwasm]

2. I take care of these women regularly

Part of what I do is take care of particular kinds of breast reconstruction after mastectomy.

All of them are traumatized to ascertain extent, some more than others. Not all of them white, or particularly privileged. Most of them will share their story to help other women, including two nurses. Friends of mine.

I can't begin to describe how distasteful how this whole situation has turned into a politicalized fiasco has been to me personally. "Tits" is a word that can be benign, but in this case, is a malignant as the cancer it's about.

I saw a repulsive post about Hof spreading 'hate' or something asinine like that. What this attitude does is spread thoughtless hurt, something I'll think about when I look into the eyes of yet another women who has lost her breasts forever no matter reconstruction and needs to grieve at the same time being grateful to be alive.

[Arcanetrance]

3. Personally I don't get the large amount of negative energy people are putting in her Decision

She made a choice that she feels was the best for her health situation. That shows strength on levels alot of people don't have. I will be honest if in her shoes I think I'd have issues to find the courage. Also my last point is they are her breasts to do as she wishes if she wanted to tattoo the skin completely blue it was her prerogative. I don't see why people are treating her breasts as community property and thinking they get a say or opinion in her decision.

[boston bean]

5. It's a two edged sword isn't it.

She went public, to help women feel better about losing their breast to breast cancer, in this sexist culture, where a womans breasts are considered to be perfectly fine topics to be discussed and commented upon for the male privileged. And their assumption is that what they like is of utmost importance.

And then because she went public, you get a bunch of adult sexist misogynistic assholes acting like immature 13 year olds. Making the issue more difficult for women, and re-inforcing the male privilege.

[Arcanetrance]

9. Maybe it was cause I was raised in a house with all women after my parents divorced or what

But as a guy I don't get the big deal some make about breasts. They are just breasts every mammal has them from the cat or dog sitting in your living room to humans. Furthermore a good amount fed from them for a period of time or maybe they didn't and that's the problem. I also wonder if these same guys would display her courage if they were among that percentage of males that get breast cancer.

[boston bean]

12. I hear so from so many men, here on DU, that they were raised

by women, that they live in "house full of women", that there is no way they could ever be participating in male privilege or being sexist.... And I see their words and whether they know it or not they are facilitating a patriarchal society. They refuse to see it. There is no self reflection.

Common theory and issues that have been accepted by femimists for some time are fair game to be criticized as man hating here on DU. And you get some women participating in that as well, re-inforcing these ideas. Is there a divide amongst feminist circles on some issues, yes. But never, as far as I know, surrounding the acceptance of the existence patriarchy, the culture that permeates an inequality for women.

[Arcanetrance]

13. Forgive me if I came off trying to say I don't have a part in a more privileged group

I would be lying to you and myself about what I observed growing up. The huge difference in the way my sister and I were treated growing up and still see today.

[boston bean]

14. I didn't take your post that way at all.

I was just commenting on my experience. Of course, there are peeps like you who were raised by women and understand!

[seabeyond]

15. i hear what you are saying. i was raised the same. at a time when it was not this big deal.

when we would encounter a mom breast feeding at anytime with no hassle or problem. nudity was not a big deal.

hypersexualized in all ways today. i believe with media and porn we are a cultured that are so fuckin hypersexualized. the breast is no longer just a boob... but only sexualized for male entertainment, but worse, ownership. honestly, as a culture i think we have changed the very basics for our sexuality.

[mercuryblues]

23. while doing so

puts the woman's health at risk.

[seabeyond]

8. just read a post... understandable men who admired her beauty and body would be "disturbed" by her

decision.

he thought that a perfectly acceptable comment in no way stepping on any toes. that men... who admire her body and beauty... would of course be disturbed.... that she chose a procedure that may mar the beauty of the body. to SAVE HER FUCKIN LIFE.

the point of the post was in the defense that a mature, normal man would not make a comment like... brad is gonna fuck the nanny now.

but, it making the point that most men are not like that, the poster says of course men are gonna be "disturbed" having admired her for her beauty and body.

clueless.

[Arcanetrance]

11. I sometimes wonder if this same obsession of breasts with these guys extend to other mammals or

primates. I say that sadly only half joking cause this obsession really bothers me they're just breasts. Would these people let something like this change their opinion on the beauty of their wife or girlfriend or how about the opinion of their daughter. Again it all goes back to the point they were her breasts to do as she wishes and that's really the end of the story.

[redqueen]

18. Ugh.

Another sterling example for the pinned thread.

[redqueen]

20. Because to many people, women's bodies are things.

They never stop to consider that that is a PERSON and not just a sex object.

I don't see why people are treating her breasts as community property and thinking they get a say or opinion in her decision.

From the clothes we wear, to our reproductive systems, breasts and even our labia - women's bodies are set up for that extra special level of scrutiny and judgement that is reserved solely for women.

This is not to say that men aren't also dictated to about their bodies, before anyone decides to go all whataboutthemenz here... just that, as with objectification (and in fact because of it) it is on a whole other level.

[boston bean]

24. We are allowed to discuss the effect on women, no matter what anyone says.

Would be nice once and a while for some to acknowledge it, instead what you get most of the time is.. All you care about it women.. You don't care about men.

Screw that BS. They do it to try to put people on the defensive and derail conversations surrounding issues that DO affect women.

[redqueen]

25. It is odd to me, the difference in reactions to some subjects.

People routinely post rants that we all agree with and the reaction is overwhelmingly stuff like "hell yeah" and +1 etc.

It's only these certain feminist issues which get stuff like 'WE ALREADY KNOW!' and 'IS THIS REALLY A PROBLEM ON DU???!!!!' etc.

Kinda revealing IMO. And by 'kinda' I mean 'very'.

[redqueen]

6. It should be obvious to everyone by now that the left has a problem with sexism.

People have to stop letting sexist and misogynist shit go simply because it comes from someone on the left.

I'm sure the reason many do is because they've been told for years that its 'divisive' to fight sexism and misogyny. I hope those people realize soon that this is a way to maintain privilege / the status quo.

We can't wait till all other problems are solved to fight sexism and misogyny. And we can't let those same people dictate which forms of sexism and misogyny are worth fighting.

[boston bean]

7. The left is the natural home for feminists when it comes to

equality and finding compassionate ears, and legislators to help with issues that effect women and equality... Although, imho, Democrats could do a bit more work on that front.... Ledbetter is not the fair pay act, not by a long shot.

But the left is not very welcoming if you dare to mention the patriarchy or the culture of sexism and misogyny and male privilege.

[redqueen]

10. Yes, when it comes to issues such as fair pay and the right to control our own bodies,

we can count on the support of most on the left. Not all, though, sadly.

When it comes to issues like objectification, sexual harassment, victim blaming, rape, etc., that's where we start getting the 'now look here little missy' attitude.

It's so painfully obvious, when this happens, which people actually bother to read any feminist discourse.

[seabeyond]

17. fuckin with entitlement and privilege. and THAT is what it bottomlines to. nt

[redqueen]

19. Yep. nt

[Little Star]

16. Bingo

[geek tragedy]

21. Counterpunch has always been too comfortable with bigotries

of various sorts for my liking, and this seems to confirm it.

And why is this happening to Jolie?

She was objectified for her physical form, and now people are angry that she's made her physical form less appealing to them.

[seabeyond]

22. ownership. i think this is a classic example of ownership. it goes with RQs post on stares

or whatever. ownership.

and the men that refuse to give up ownership of womens body, when they really in essence have fuckin NO ownership.

repugs do it with law

men as a whole do it in this manner.

[redqueen]

26. And the women who seem to think that because *they* don't mind,

that that somehow means diddly fucking squat.

If the man hasn't any idea whether a woman is one of those who loves being treated like ... that ... then they need to recognize that choosing to treat them that way regardless is being an asshole. Period.

[seabeyond]

27. i read that little subthread. i was surprised the reasoning, and the conclusion of that dicussion

i expected at least an acknowledgment of what you were saying. it is so obvious. and cause one needs it for their ego, does not mean all of us do.

[boston bean]

28. feminists aren't allowed to be right, no matter what.

Even in the face of truth or common decency, they just can't ever be right or agreed with.

[Mosby]

30. Yup, like bigotry against Jews and extreme anti-zionism

Over the years they have featured anti-semites like Israel Shamir, Franklin Lamb, Alison Weir, Gilad Atzmon and Cynthia McKinney.

The web site is complete shit.

[WCGreen]

29. The only thing I can say about this is Ms. Jolie made a decision to

use her body to her advantage, as many Hollywood stars do, regardless of sex, to define her early career.

Of course having a father in the business probably had a bit to with her success.

I guess these people who see her as an action figure cannot fathom the idea of Ms. Jolie's decision to have a preventive mastectomy. To me. that is the only motivating figure I can see for their actions.

My mother had a mastectomy in 1972 and at least five other operations that I can remember. It was devastating to our family. My step father had open heart surgery and was afflicted with heart disease for the last 35 years of his life. That too cast a cloak of reality to our lives.

We live in a country that is superficial in many ways. We are bombarded with so many choices that it is difficult to spend much time to ponder on anything.

These sniggering comments remind me of those kids who pointed at me or blurted out some offensive remark about my mother when I walked by them in the halls of my school.

Boys will be boys and girls will be girls.

Both sides of the standard setting crowds had their say. It's time to say what we all should have said from the beginning, "It's none of my business one way or the other what Ms. Jolie choices to do..."