Yes this is rape culture

[ismnotwasm]

All the ignorant and disingenuous mouthings of how pedophillia 'is a sexual orientation' or "thoughts of sexual attraction for children can't be controlled" ignores the active participation of indulging in those thoughts, a deliberate shunting aside of harm caused; a completely pathological state of self absorption.

Take this case in my neck of the woods. A phone found by a man. Curious, he flips though the pictures. Over a hundred pictures of children having sex with adults is what he finds. The man is repulsed and though he was originally going to return the phone, calls the state troopers instead. An act of normalcy, an act of decency and honor.

The man who found the found prefers to remain anonymous, but says he still can't stomach finding a cell phone filled with images of young children having sex with adults.

He spotted the phone along the shoulder of Highway 99 in Seattle, and thinking he'd be a Good Samaritan, says he picked it up and contacted the owner to return it. Curious as to whom he'd be meeting, the man decided to flip through the photos.

A file full of child porn is what the man found, so he gave the phone to state troopers.

Court records say detectives found "149 videos and pictures of children, between the ages of 5 and 10 years old, engaged in sex acts with adults."

Troopers say they've also searched Sheely's home in a gated community in Stanwood, Washington. The entrance is surrounded by surveillance cameras.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Child-porn-on-lost-cell-phone-lands-man-in-jail-224170351.html

Yes, this is rape culture, making sexual fetishes out of children is perhaps a cornerstone of it. When we examine reasons for sexual violence, there are those who compare it to murder--an unavoidable part of living in a large society.

This ignores the specific nature of gendered violence. This ignores predatory sexual violence against children. Once we "accept these things" or excuse this behavior, rape culture wins another battle in a long, long war.

[niyad]

1. k and r and 3. . 2. . . 1. .

[Arcanetrance]

2. sexual attraction to children is not normal or some choice period

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. 3..., 2..., 1...

Pedophillia is NOT a sexual orientation.

Pedophiles are vile predators like any other sexual predator.

No civil person should ever accept gender violence.

[redqueen]

4. There are people actually trying to redefine hebephilia and pedophilia as a "kink"

and calling anyone who has a problem with these assholes "kink shamers".

They've already succeeded in defining ephebophilia as 'natural' and 'acceptable'.

This sickening bullshit just another kind of objectification. People don't matter to these predators. Body types in specific phases of sexual development, that's what these sick shits care about. They're not attracted to people as individuals. They're only focused on body parts.

Makes you wonder just how low some people can sink.

[ismnotwasm]

5. I have no problem shaming those assholes

Narcissist personality disorder is the kindest designation for them. Is there a word for seeing a sexual object as a series of body parts? Or, oops, we left that one out?

[Deep13]

7. Sorry apologists, but some preferences are not normal.

True, the appropriate age for marriage has changed over time and varies among places. Children, however, have always been off limits in every stable society at every age in the history of humanity. We had to draw the line somewhere and American states usually draw it between 16 and 18. The best statutes are more lenient when partners are near the same age and harsher when the age difference is big.

My understanding is that a preference for children is a pathology caused by childhood trauma. That is not the case for people who are merely gay. I have to thing that part of adults preferring adolescents is a naturalization of commercial culture. Media constantly presents us with female models who look like 11-yr.-old boys, insisting that they are desirable in appearance. It's a way of dehumanizing them, making it seem okay to use adolescents as objects for fulfilling the perpetrators' desires.

[Gravitycollapse]

8. "Children, however, have always been off limits" - Not particularly true.

Especially if we are talking about historical standards.

It would seem the only real limiter is physical stature. Which is a really terrible thing to consider but reality is not often a comfortable thing.

I assume you are aware of the joke often said by various misogynists? "If there's grass on the field, play ball." Well that didn't just materialize out of the ether. It's a reflection of general historical standards around the "deflowering" of little girls. If a girl is developed enough to physically accommodate a man, there isn't much holding back sexual opportunists. This becomes an especially serious issue when we consider those who go through "precocious puberty." Even if a girl is not physically well developed, we often still see sexual violence. As was the case in the recent story where an 8 year old Yemeni died from internal hemorrhaging after being raped by her 40 year old "husband."

[redqueen]

11. What? (STRONG TRIGGER WARNING!)

Men rape INFANTS. (SOME men, the ones who are the perpetrators of these crimes, fucking DUH) Nothing stops these monsters except lack of access. Not physical stature, not anything.

As for history, I personally don't give a shit. Our brains make us capable of learning and adapting to the new information we take in.

Unless we don't want to, of course, as evidenced by all the POSs trying so hard to push the idea that the fetishization of people who aren't fully grown (physically, emotionally, psychologically) should be socially acceptable.

[Deep13]

14. Historical standards are generally more strict about this than modern standards.

FYI

Premodern societies did their best to keep sexuality within a marriage and couples had to wait until someone died and made their farmland available for the next generation in order to marry.

Without the hypersexualization of capitalist mass media, men by and large would not have constructed and naturalized small children as sexual objects. There is obviously an evolutionary reason to avoid such conduct. Causing damage at a young age may preclude any normal reproduction at an appropriate age. Any societies inclined to practice pedophilia, therefore, would not last long. Finally, there was almost no personal privacy in the Middle Ages, so there would be very limited opportunities to keep child sexual abuse secret.

[redqueen]

15. Interesting.

We know that by the late 1800's this kind of abuse was rampant. Freud wrote about it after hearing accounts from many of his female patients.

[ismnotwasm]

16. When I was taking psych courses

One of my instructors was a Freudian analyst. He said that since common people couldn't afford Freud, Freud treated monied-to-royalty people's. it skewed what he could actually say, which is where some of his "hysteria" diagnosis came from. The professor said that Freud couldn't exactly put out that Earl so and so was raping his daughter, so he made diagnosis for the daughter

[seabeyond]

17. That is interesting. Thanks. Nt

[redqueen]

29. Yep. He went back and changed what he'd originally written.

This, iirc, was where the idea that daughters wanted to compete with their mothers for thee fathers' affection came from.

A utter load of shit, dreamed up to placate the upper class men who were raping their daughters. No longer was it simply a case of a man raping his daughter. No, now it was thought of as the child sexually tempting the father and instigating such abuse.

[Deep13]

21. Not surprising, that was well into the modern era.

By then family privacy and male hierarchical power structures were well established. Not sure what would set something like that off. Perhaps the repressive attitudes of the Victorian era caused some men's sexual norms to become warped. Once one starts down the path of child sexual abuse, there was nothing to keep the vicious circle from turning, especially when it came to men molesting boys. While I suspect that child rape and molestation was rare in pre-modern times, one exception may have been in the ecclesiastical institutions where celibate men (hardly a natural lifestyle) were in frequent contact with young men and boys and had the secrecy of the cloister to protect them.

[redqueen]

28. Actually, the idea that the Victorian era was characterized by sexual repression is a myth.

Porn from that era featured not only incest but also ephebophilia and beastiality... so...

[Deep13]

30. But was the porn really all that representative?

It may have been the result of repression. Victorians fancied themselves as highly civilized, which to them meant repressing what they considered to be animalistic impulses and accepting highly patriarchal values. Of course, these were the values of a middle class that was emulating the upper class. I don't think the working classes could afford to live with such fictions.

[redqueen]

31. I'm telling you, the repression was a myth.

There was a premium on public facades of propriety, but in their private lives, members of all classes were not sexually repressed.

[seabeyond]

32. right. you said it well. nt

[Deep13]

33. I'd like to read on that.

Can I ask what you are relying on? Actually, the public facade may be what I am thinking about.

It has been known for a while now that the Puritans were not puritanical when it came to sex, as long as it was confined within marriage. For a married couple, sex was positively encouraged. I wonder if the Victorians were in a similar situation. They did have descendants, after all, so they could not have been chaste.

[Deep13]

12. You are misquoting me.

"Children, however, have always been off limits in every stable society at every age in the history of humanity."

Stable societies protect children. Unstable ones, like ancient Sparta, practiced institutional pederasty as a control mechanism. And even they were adolescents and not strictly speaking children. Still, the whole society collapsed in two centuries. The modern Yemeni example is a society that is in a state of chaos right now. Traditionally, that would not have been allowed. And a young marriage, however wrong that is, did not necessarily mean immediate sexual conduct. Generally, in societies that allowed that sort of thing, sexual conduct would not occur for several years until the girl was what was considered a suitable age.

Pre-modern societies did not have mass media that sexualized everything. Erotic love as opposed to fraternal was not the default assumption as it is now. Many primary sources that have been read by modern readers as sexual in fact were not.

[ismnotwasm]

13. This

Pre-modern societies did not have mass media that sexualized everything. Erotic love as opposed to fraternal was not the default assumption as it is now. Many primary sources that have been read by modern readers as sexual in fact were not.

It's interesting how apologists focus on presumed "the way it was" on sexual matters and completely ignore historical economic and other factors that "normalized" harmful sexual behavior.

[seabeyond]

18. that is where the problem lies. so much of the facts are ignored or denied to tell the story that

embrace the false patriarchy. this is all in order for a man to feel like a man. wtf is wrong with this generation of men, that they are so dependent on outside forces dictating to them what a man is.

[BainsBane]

20. Interesting analysis

In both of your posts.

[Deep13]

22. thanks

[Deep13]

6. feelings and actions are very different things.

A person may not be able to control completely his urges, but acting on them and involving an innocent and powerless third person is another matter entirely. Our society decided that, unfortunately, the harm caused by child sexual abuse is so traumatic to the victim that nothing but harsh punishment is the only legal response to it. By the time they are adults, pedophiles cannot be cured even though they are victims themselves. So, all we can do is make the penalty for acting on those impulses so severe that they will think it is just not worth it. Yet enough of them commit sex crimes against children to keep cops, assistant DAs, and child psychologists employed around the country.

One of the worst child rape cases I ever prosecuted was a 65 year old man who raped his 5-yr.-old grand daughter. Fortunately for the D.A. (but not for him) he made photographs for his activities. Plea deal was that we would take mandatory life imprisonment off the table if he plead to the indictment, saving the kid from having to testify. The judge gave him maximum consecutive sentences on each count, 85 years in prison. It was very gratifying when the appellate court sustained the sentence. During oral argument the judges were squirming in their chairs in discomfort. Fortunately, the kid healed and received psychiatric help.

By the way, if a kid tells you something that sounds like sexual abuse, don't ignore it or shrug it off. For Christ sake, call the fucking police and let them decide if the kid is telling the truth, because if they are not idiots, they will know that kids just don't make that kind of shit up.

[seabeyond]

9. if it is like we argued with the 3 or 4 men that came in saying it was a biological urge and could

not be helped, (not what i was arguing, i was once again DEFENDING men saying it is not a biological urge and lotsa lotsa men do not have the "urge" to fuck kids) then each of these men would be admitting to this urge, right? every man that argues this must be feeling it. if it is biological then ALL men feel the urge to fuck kids.

now, how many men are truly disgusted with this.

instead of attacking me, we can always go after those that are really giving this to ALL men.

i like the poster, i believe deep13, that says commercially we are fed this all day long, day after day.

i agree.

[NuclearDem]

10. Culturally, it's shameful how we sexualize and fetishize women and children.

At least to the point where we "train" women in particular to be open and available to men whenever they're "needed." Men being subsequently trained to view women (and in some cases, children) as purely sexual objects forms the cornerstone of rape culture.

On the subject of pedophilia, it's a mental disorder, and one that needs extensive research and understanding. The problem with overly stygmatizing it (well, maybe not that, necessarily) is that pedophiles who self-identify as such become unwilling to seek psychiatric help. It ultimately ends up being to society's detriment.

[BainsBane]

19. Astounding how many people argued that pedophilia was natural

and that most of them are still on the site! They all shared the weird tendency to assume everything they do in life is innate. Remember the remark that we are genetically programmed to find George Clooney attractive rather than younger men, whereas he was programmed to be attracted to pubescent girls? That was at once idiotic and repulsive.

[seabeyond]

23. Ya. And I never thought much of clooney. Pitt, ya. Clooney? No way. BUT,

That was beyond stupid. And still there is never a comment when asked why the average difference in age when married is just at two years. And ask the men if it means they are hot for kids.... Crickets. If it is innate, then it would be ALL men.

[ismnotwasm]

24. I'm a Vin Diesel kind of girl myself

And yes that was an asinine comment. Think that's the pedo apologist that's no longer with us.

[BainsBane]

25. Really?

For me it's Idris Elba. Pretty soon we'll have our own version of the Men's Repository of All the bikini babes going!

[ismnotwasm]

26. That's why I deliberately used a trailer shot of Riddick 3

I'm a huge Riddick fan. I even got he book based on he movie. "Pitch Black" is underrated Sci Fi as far as I'm concerned.

And your choice, very nice

[redqueen]

27. Yep, yep and yep.

I like his voice too.