History of Feminism
Related: About this forumFuck your Men’s Rights Activism
Whats the difference between homophobics, white supremacists and Mens Rights Activists? Absolutely nothing.snip:
In stark contrast to the groups name, Mens Rights Activists focus less (or not at all) on men and mens issues and more on hate speech against women. In other words, it has simply evolved into an online community of trolls whose genuine loathing of women is nothing short of intensely baffling.
In fact, take a look at some of their well-informed opinions:
One might ask why they harbour such hatred. What could have happened to these poor, first world manboys that they cant help but take it upon themselves to wish harm and ill to women the world over? Abuse? Mommy issues?
The answer is not that simple. Mens rights activists came into being in the same way the Red October did:
No matter what society you live in, inequality is innately sewn into its fabric. We have created, continue to create and consistently perpetuate hierarchies of all kinds. If its not race its gender, or sexuality, or caste, or wealth.
snip:
But whenever there is an imbalance of power, there will always be a continually amassing resistance against it. Weve seen it in Apartheid, in U.S slavery, and were still seeing it with Syria. The resistance against patriarchy is no different. This is obvious in the tumultuous amount of backlash that feminists have received in their efforts to fight for equality. To the point that the word feminism itself has somehow become dirty.
Source: http://www.women24.com/Wellness/BodyAndSpirit/Fuck-your-Mens-Rights-Activism-20131206
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)No less sickening than White Supremacists' trash and bigotry.
I'm ashamed of what some people can do and say.
Just incredibly sad.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)"Incredibly sad" is putting it a bit mildly, if anything. "Sickening" sounds more like it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)busy elsewhere.
Warpy
(113,131 posts)like child custody after divorce, where women are still favored. Other issues are the ways men are dismissed as victims of rape and spousal assault.
Unfortunately, the legitimate stuff is quickly drowned out by all the adolescent jackasses and the old jackasses who never progressed emotionally beyond the adolescent stage crabbing that women aren't adhering to whatever script they've written for women's lives.
It's called discipline, fellas. You need to bounce the jerks if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you'll be considered a bunch of ignorant teenagers mixed with bitter divorced men.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)...comes from the anger and frustration of dealing with all of the assholes and bigots?
The signal-to-noise ratio is really skewed when it comes to "MRA," and not in a good way.
Squinch
(52,891 posts)Other than the energy it takes to whine.
This is fear and loathing caused by the loss of unearned advantages. Part of me is grossed out by their terrified hatred. The other part of me says, "Heh, heh, heh. You are not the boss of me, and you never will be! And you finally know it!"
Warpy
(113,131 posts)until somebody comes along and threatens to take it away or only make you share it.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)- then I might be inclined to think this Men's Rights thing actually had some merit to it. But as I said, most of them are far more concerned with punishing or hurting women any way they can, than with actually helping better the lives of men and boys.
The relative few who are actually decent, well-intentioned human beings should really try and find common ground with feminists - they don't have to be (or declare themselves) feminists, but they should realize that feminism is by large not inimical to men's interests. Quite the contrary.
Warpy
(113,131 posts)and bounce the woman haters as simply counterproductive. Were they to concentrate on the issues you mention, they'd get a lot of support from feminists because they are human issues.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)there. you know, selecting the extremist out of extreme. i was hoping you all were not talking about those of us on du, but who knows. but... what was the most outrageous about these supposed so horrible women that are ultimate in extreme, or us? i remember you agreed about the extreme. i do not even kinda remember the wording.
what was the most horrid that these women (or us) say. i really didnt read what the outrage was with what point of view.
was it the separatist issue. was it the fact women did not want to be around men. was that what was so extreme and so horrid about the women (or us). lol.
what kind of percentage would this be in the female population? pretty damn small. and what was so horrible? that women did not want to be around men. what if they had been raped all thru childhood? i think it takes a pretty damn strong woman to be raped thru out childhood and as an adult be able to still embrace man. but what was really the offense in that thread?
women not wanting to have sex with, not wanting to share space with men?
that would be womans extreme.
lets see what mens extreme is. that is thru out the net. all over the place. in every comment section of net publication that talks about a woman. not a woman that is "asking" for it cause of some kind of sexual whatever. but.... any article that has a woman in it. lets look at the extreme, that is EVERYWHERE. rape, kill, get a froiegn woman to serve not a spoiled western. slut. whore. hit it. do it. fuck it. pass it around.
what is the extreme that our society hears repeatedly in every corner of the net, including du?
when women walk up on a thread that has a woman. no woman in particular, just a woman. a woman in politics. and you hear men say... oh man, i could hit it.
and what is the extreme feminist that is the evil of this world, bringing the downfall, picking on men?
i read this in the mens group a while, while ago. i really do not remember much and i did not read the article or what you all were talking. i am tired of hunting things to blame feminist for. but in the face of this OP i am really curious, what is this extreme feminism that is so so so scary.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And generally I reject the notion of labeling someone an "extremist" just because one doesn't agree with everything they say.
That Men's Group OP - to which my reaction was mostly something like "So what?" - concerned a very small segment of feminists who could be considered a bit off the deep end, certainly a good deal more extreme than, I would think, anyone on DU. Separatism is part of it, yes, also perhaps a view of men as universally predatory - which, depending on one's particular life experiences (trauma etc.) may be somewhat understandable.
And you have a point here, about how "extremes" - violence, hatred, general inhumanity - are in some ways the norm in our society. It's not implausible to suppose that that would give rise to other, equally extreme ways of thinking in response.
Basically, I realize that there are extremes in every group, and it's not something that keeps me up at night. And I find it honestly laughable how some play up the "scary extreme radfem" thing like it's a genuine threat - like Andrea Dworkin come back from the grave to yell at them, or something...
ismnotwasm
(42,473 posts)xulamaude
(847 posts)Oh, that's just...
mike_c
(36,340 posts)They are very extreme, and I cannot believe that they represent anything remotely close to mainstream male thinking. Even the notion that "men's rights" is a thing worth dwelling upon is basically ridiculous except, I suppose, in some narrow circumstances. But pitting men's rights against women's, as though there are only so many rights to go around and we dudes have to struggle with women to insure they don't get all of them, I mean, that's ludicrous.
I hope the posts you cited are representative only of their misogynist writers' paranoid perspectives. I'm shocked at the bitter tone. The one that repeatedly refers to "western women" sounds like it's layered with cultural and religious paranoia as well. I would be appalled to hear anyone I know express views like those you quoted.
I can't imagine any guy I know subscribing to these ideas - and if he did, I'd certainly want to keep him at a distance. Most of these guys sound like potential (if not actual) rapists and wife-beaters - same pattern of self-righteousness, skewed ethics and naked hostility.
Also, you're correct that it's not a zero sum game. Liberation - which I see both genders as in need of, in different ways - ultimately benefits us all.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)sections. there was a lot of men that would go after western women. asian, and south american women are the ones you want. the bow to the man. take care of him and his needs with no whiney. western women are all princesses that are spoiled and demanding, ect....
i did not know
but there were a lotta lotta men talking this. it is not a small amount of men that have this mentality.
ismnotwasm
(42,473 posts)These guys make a lot of noise though, and are the groups that come up on-line when men need help and are seeking it. There are better organizations not based on hate.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is anti women stuff from these groups. young impressionable minds are being fed this garbage or given bogus made up facts.
like, rape victims falsely accuse 45-75%.
that is a horrible thing to teach our boys and young men.
Like I said they make a lot of noise. And they really are nuts.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)but invoke the same arguments? Nothing.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)For their own benefit as much as anyone's.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)Have you tried calling them out?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And yes, I have expressed doubt and skepticism RE: a number of arguments I've seen there. I try to keep things civil, as much as I can, but sometimes I really get frustrated with certain people's simplistic worldview.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)but that doesn't change the fact that some of the ideas expressed there are the same as MRAsmas.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Some of the more egregious ones - like (pffft!) galileoreloaded - have been rightly banned from DU, but some of the stuff that gets in just under the radar really isn't becoming of a progressive-leaning site. And you know, I don't think most of these guys are actually bad people, particularly - I do find a certain amount of common ground with them - but like I said, some of their blind spots and inconsistencies frustrate me.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)at least I have a suspicion of who might be him. But since I'm no longer on MIRT, ain't my problem no more.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I think so too.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)via PM, of course.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Dash87
(3,220 posts)they all feel that Feminists have ruined their lives. You can see the anger and hatred through the posts.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I cannot beleive it. Are there actual men who feel this way?
xulamaude
(847 posts)it's a backlash of different proportions.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Why so many here want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it should be ignored is beyond me.
Plenty of men here like to bring up the fact that some women fantasize about being raped, in an effort to prove... something.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)I've been thinking about why. Whereas once MRAs consisted of a few weird guys, like the one who used to appear on Donahue, they have found their peeps online. They find validation for their antipathy toward women and that in turn reinforces their sense of injustice. The more they talk to one another, the more convinced them become that women and feminists in particular are destroying society. They become more emboldened and that results in what we see today.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)accusations and not even what is being googled. and numbers like 45-75% false accusations at that. doesnt that just justify and reinforce? how hard are the young men going to research for actual facts instead of some hateful man mouthing off.
xulamaude
(847 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)And he's a seemingly normal person who holds down a job, has kids, a wife (also an ex-wife, but he was an MRA before not getting custody,) and talks about sports and stuff. Seems totally normal until certain topics come up, including MRA issues like false rape allegations, violence against women, etc.
xulamaude
(847 posts)and that's the point. These guys are seemingly normal and 'are' normal to most everyone.
It's only some of us who know in our gut that something is off and/or we've educated ourselves who know to expose it for what it is.
BainsBane
(54,816 posts)We've all witnessed that same crap openly challenged by some who claim to be Democrats.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)And men that object to our opposition to that that shit calling us misandrous is just ridiculous.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)by saying I could be sued for libel.
These clowns are pitiful. Seriously
He first tried to stop me from calling out MRA talking points by campaigning to have me PPR'd. I guess he hasn't given up on the dream.