Sexists and misogynists and Racists; Oh my.

[ismnotwasm]

The only thing missing are the homophobic assholes tonight.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I think they're out, too.

And add to the people who think that the commercial use of huge captive killer whales for entertainment is just fine and you have every kind of asshole.

[ismnotwasm]

2. What the hell is going on?

I know have my little safe group here, But I venture into GD, and see racism being belittled as well?


And I take someone is talking sport killing of whales is a good thing?

Somebody needs to do some early spring cleaning because we have crossed the boundaries of simple opinion. God.

[ismnotwasm]

17. Those attitudes do run together

And are incredibly ignorant. So many studies are indicating at least a limited sentience for whales. Concern for the environments and those who live in them is very much a progressive issue. To dismiss it or ignore it is wrong.

That was an incredible trailer, thank you. Now I'll have to watch the movie

[seabeyond]

21. i cannot believe it. NYC had a post hidden. my god, everyone. quit talking to us. you get hides.

these are people that never get hides. we have some one going around alerting on every. fuck that shit. gotta see what was in the post to get a hide. can call people all kinds of shit without hides. not that i bother alerting either.

[ismnotwasm]

33. That was stupid

And a 5-1 hide. I'm almost embarrassed for the jurors

[seabeyond]

35. i mean, what did the alerter state to get a hide. he is accusing duers of being misogynist and

homophobes???

better change your op title.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Nope

I suspect it was alerted on already. I don't seek such things out. I've had only one hide my entire time at DU, but I'm not as active as some.

[seabeyond]

37. i have had lots and LOTS and lOTs. lol. nt

[seabeyond]

38. show off. nt

[ismnotwasm]

39. Heh!

The funny thing is that it was something from IBTP-- a great little rant, and it was the third time I had posted it-- the other two times were when I used to post in the feminist group on DU 2

You know a little of my personality now, I can't let loose, or I'd have hides left and right.

[seabeyond]

40. lol lol. ah ha. i get it. true that. nt

[seabeyond]

22. i am using your post. "bigot, probably a homophobe and sexist misogynist". these have to be the

words that got the hide. now you cannot even fuckin say the words. and skinner tells us, all we have to do is post in a manner that wont get a hide. well peoples... take these words out of our vocabulary. "bigot, probably a homophobe and sexist misogynist". next....

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. That hide was unfortunate.

[CrispyQ]

53. I can't believe NYC's post was hidden.

I guess people want to be as base as they possibly can be & not be called out on it. We as a society, should allow anything, just because someone wants to do it. No standards. Well, how's that turning out for us? Not so good, as we are about to go into the dustbin of history.

I don't know what's going on with our species, but it's not good. I fear we are in a collective 'holy shit are we fucked' mindset & it is bringing out the worst in us.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

55. ^^ This is what is happening ^^

DO NOT DENY A PERSON TO BE AS BASE AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

It's funny and cute and they are just telling a joke and where is YOUR sense of humor.

and evidently this little icon makes it double extra cool with a side of black magic.

[CrispyQ]

61. Yes,

couching hate in humor & then calling us out for not having a sense of humor. My right wing mother used to do that too.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. and there YOU have it ---

RIGHT WING. The board has been infiltrated by the mores and attitudes of the Right Wing.

There is no kindness, gentleness or beauty of simple truth left.

It has been stomped out by the lower sense of self.

So obvious that people are thinking and behaving from a place down low and are refusing to move Up.

They WANT to stay there. They like it. They wallow in it and pounce on any chance to take it there. Cute. So Cute.

I refuse to pull them dragging, kicking and screaming to a higher realm.

Let them lay in their own filth.

Dusting off my feet and moving on.

[BainsBane]

8. If they wanted the site to be differernt, it would be

If the administrators had a problem with any of that, they'd put an end to it.

[CrispyQ]

56. +1

I think the admins want as little to do with the site as possible. They've tried to automate as much as possible & via the jury system, letting the members decide what kind of site it will be. And that take us back to my other post, above. What a cesspool.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

58. again. Spot On.

meanwhile their bills are paid. It's all good.

[CrispyQ]

60. Your sig line made me laugh!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

62. ah, yeah - Thanks

Needed something light and airy to make up for all the ugly on the board.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

57. and BINGO. Hit the Nail on The Head.

[Squinch]

67. I CANNOT believe that your post downthread was hidden. Especially given the crap that

passes juries. What a joke!

ETA: I see that I am late to add this observation, and I'm glad to see that many others had the same reaction.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Share.

[ismnotwasm]

5. This is more an expression of my frustration

I really don't want to call out folk.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

9. Do you want to see something frustrating?

Go watch the Palestinian-hating right-wing cheering, racist a-holes in I/P.

I understand.



There's plenty of a-holes that manage to continue living on DU that should have been punted long ago.

[BainsBane]

11. I've only gone in there for jury duty

no desire to revisit the place. It's not that I'm not interested. It's just too much.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

12. That's my point. But it is also a microcosm of

how DU functions as a whole.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Ugh

That's indeed an ugly one

[seabeyond]

16. like that little 6 yr old boy needed boundaries, we need rules. they want civility. civility comes

with rules.

there has never been civility in lawlessness. they set it up for failure.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. I'm missing a part of this discussion methinks.

6 yr old?

[seabeyond]

19. lol lol. ya. you are. and my bad. not a biggie. i am tired. and all day thing....

anyway. yes. i imagine the same shit is in I/P. it is tiresome

[BainsBane]

20. This

hazmat suit required. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4166149

[BainsBane]

4. I'm staying in here.

I've had enough for a while.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Yeah, here is good.

[seabeyond]

10. i hate men. i was told by ANOTHER. i hate men. that simple. i do not know how many that makes today

they ignore what i post. create their argument then tell me i hate men. i am defending the boy a hell of a lot more then all the assholes, as they make a 6 yr old boy like.... stupid, and i am the one that hates men.

[ismnotwasm]

14. They don't read what you actually say.

I did.


They're full of shit.

[seabeyond]

15. thank you. i have never encountered... ok, i have, such an effort to distort what is being

said.

the ultimate in dishonest.

thank you ism.

[smirkymonkey]

78. Of course it is so obvious that so many of them hate women, but call them out on it...

and you had better watch out. For some reason we are just supposed to put up with it and smile.

Their misogyny is JUSTIFIED!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

23. Okay, I read the OP/thread.

I wouldn't want anybody. boy or girl, harassing my daughter...or son if I had a son.


But it goes both ways. I had an argument with a friend about bullying and the suicides that sometimes are a terrible result of it. Children need laws, guidance and at times discipline just like adults do. The argument went that bullying was alright, and that it only toughens or gives perspective to a young child. I argued that it didn't and sets a horrible precedent that the child's life is undervalued compared to that of an adult. If your neighbor...or a stranger was continually bullying you would you take it or call the police and let them deal with it?

Odds are that you would call the police or a lawyer.

Children of either sex should be afforded the same rights that adults enjoy as participants in this world.

So a continued unhealthy interest in another human being at any age, whether it is sexual violent or verbal in nature, can only lead to problems later.


I'm not sure if I would call a 6 year old a sexual harasser, but I am not a psychologist. I would suggest help for the boy so he can understand that actions have consequences.

I would also suggest help for the class in order to learn from this problem.

Lastly, but not intentionally last I would suggest help/support for the girl.

[BainsBane]

24. It also occurred to me that something could be going on in the boy's home

Acting out sexually can be a sign of sexual abuse. Kissing isn't sex of course, but there is a boundary issue, which makes me think the boy's own boundaries have been violated.

I don't favor criminalizing childhood behavior. The goal should be to keep the girl safe, teach the boy what is appropriate, and if he needs it, get help for him.

Why that thread is toxic of course has little to nothing to do with the actual news story. It's the reactions of some DUers that is shocking.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

27. You could be right about the boy's home life, or...and I will go out on a limb here..

his parents could be innocent and just show him affection; which he interprets as okay to show others.

Or his parents could be complete assholes and not show him any attention so he seeks it from others.

He could also just be a not very bright 6 year old.

I remember being that age and seeing kids around me doing dumb sh!t over and over.


But I digress. Yes, the thread is off course and I am not sure why a post on Orcas was hidden. There was no call out.

Strange.

[seabeyond]

29. oh r. it has been a wacky couple days.... nt, wait. a wacky couple weeks anyway. nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. Horrible week for me. Worst ever.

I won't go any farther though.

Goodnight.

[seabeyond]

32. then i am even more sorry. night... sleep tight. do NOT let any bed bugs bite. take care. nt

[ismnotwasm]

34. Nite

Sorry it's been so rough

[BainsBane]

41. Take care of yourself

And thanks for stopping by.

[CrispyQ]

59. THIS: I don't favor criminalizing childhood behavior.

I don't favor criminalizing childhood behavior. The goal should be to keep the girl safe, teach the boy what is appropriate, and if he needs it, get help for him.

We need a national discussion about zero tolerance policies with children, as well.

[JI7]

26. homophobes were out also, they thought it was unfair that boys can't kiss and touch any girl they

want to because someone transgender can use certain restrooms or some bs like that.

[seabeyond]

28. oh that was stupid what ever that was. i literally quit reading when i saw the bathroom brought up.

alerted and thought an easy hide. and nope. stayed. the person was kicked off, but our grand community standard allowed that transphobic shit.

[ismnotwasm]

30. Figures

I missed that, I was wondering when they'd show up.

[BainsBane]

42. Oh FFS

NYC_Skp's post was hidden? over what? Now we're not even allowed to talk about bigotry?

[seabeyond]

43. but, we should KNOW, just know, when we are saying something whether it is hide worthy.

we see the only thing in that post that may be upsetting to anyone is words like homophobia and sexist. that only leads us to believe that those two words are so offensive, they may be hidden. we should KNOW this. so it is our responsibility with our posts not to post anything that we think might be hidden.

is this now a clear message we can not use the words homophobia and sexist ?

[BainsBane]

45. The point is not to disagree

People like porn, don't criticize porn. People like Assange, don't criticize Assange or challenge anyone on the fact he is an accused rapist hiding from prosecution. People don't like feminism, don't talk about women's rights. In other words, keep our mouths shut and stay in our place.

[seabeyond]

47. that is what it feels like. that is the clarification we need. if that is how this board is set up

at least have the courage to say, that is what it is.

it is like the woman that is being cheated on. she knows it. feels it. (julia roberts movie that stuck with me), and then sees it. she is standing there looking at it. when confronting the man, he denies. says it is not what it looks like.

that.... is cowardly in my opinion. which takes me to the post to golly. poor woman didnt ask for it. but, i refuse to be cowardly. that is how i see it. i refuse to live my life as a coward. ok, in this instance. truth to self. i am afraid of bears in the woods, sharks in the sea, and flying off a mountainous road for no reason or jumping off a latter, but words, thoughts ideas, i refuse to be cowardly.

i have to address them in the truth that i see it. right or wrong, it is my truth. challenge what i say, i am cool. tell me i cannot speak and hten me shutting up cause i am afraid of a hide, that is cowardly.

setting up the board with the knowledge that the majority rule, yet pretending there is a fairness, when addressed stating the fairness and we know when we post something, it is hide worthy, so our responsibility to not get a hide.... yet all facts point otherwise

say it.

is that where we are.

our voice must be silenced.

[CTyankee]

48. I think the idea behind this is that we should know what men think before they think it...once they

"decide" well, then it's hide-able...didn't we know that beforehand? "Watch your mouth, woman."

[seabeyond]

49. the only way i know to do it is stay true. i figure speaking truth will keep me safe. doesnt. nt

[CTyankee]

50. This has been a depressing week for me so I can only imagine how you must feel...

I think "disappointment" in certain people I thought were better pretty much sums it up. I've been on DU since October of 2004 and I remember how I felt when I discovered it, how it got me through that terrible January in 2005 after Kerry "lost" the election. DU and Stephanie Miller got me through it. I kept thinking, "well, at least I have DU and Steph."

Now, I'm pretty disillusioned. I keep wondering, "When did the wheels come off here?"

[seabeyond]

51. the wheels came off when we took away rules and still expected civility. feb 2004 living in the

panhandle of texas. with a repug hubby that didnt want to talk politics. a godsend. literally a life saver. i can remember when i first found the site feb 2004.... sittin late into the night.. joyous that i found people that spoke so much like me. finally able to express without continued attack.

and, respectful to women. blacks. gays. you had to be. or the message was deleted. or kicked off.

that simple.

civility.

yes

[BainsBane]

72. AND watch your mouth man who is an ally to feminists

We'll show you. You don't suppose someone decided NYC_Skp was a "gender traitor"?

[CTyankee]

74. Of course!

The bullying here is incredible (or maybe I should say more and more credible!).

This has been an eye-opening week for me, BB. I'm just sorry it took so long for me to see how pervasive it actually is, this power thing with misogynists here at DU.

Maybe it's because I have a feminist husband, a feminist son, and two feminists sons in law and all with feminist wives. And thank god, they are all raising feminist children, including my two grandsons! So I have the luxury of a lot of support, including living in the People's Republic of New Haven, CT! It puts you into a bubble of complacency that feels very good but can be very deceptive.

[BainsBane]

75. To be honest, I've never experienced anything like this offline

and I don't remember it from when I was a member on DU2 many years ago, under Bush. The worst I recall then was references to "man Coulter." The sexism and anti-feminism has grown increasingly pronounced. I don't know if that reflects society more broadly, DU in particular, or the internet overall. It is disheartening, however.

[CTyankee]

76. Who said "power never gives up without a struggle. It never has and never will." Or something like

that...Frederick Douglas?

[seabeyond]

77. it is all in the rules, no rules. it was there. it was deleted. enough deletes, they were gone.

difference between rules or no rules. this is set up for majority rule. feminism is and always has been a small minority. we have always been in battle with society as a whole. and yet... feminism has accomplished so much.

but... the balancing equation in du2 was rules. with no rules, there is no balance.

[gollygee]

44. This is the new style of racism

and every other kind of ism. TALKING ABOUT IT becomes racism (or whatever) and reamining silent becomes the ideal.

[seabeyond]

46. i have three posts hidden that i talk about something offensive put on du. i didnt put it out

someone put the shit out, and calling it out, i get a hide cause i offend. how do you not offend, when talking about the offensive.

we are told we know when we are writing something that will be hid. we are to the point where any subject that is offensive, merely talking about it offends people so can be hidden.

that is what i do. i call out the offensive. so.... who is gonna get the hide.

but, we are talking about people that never get hides, here. people that work so damn hard to avoid hides while talking about the offensive. one poster even runs them by me first. (i am the wrong person, lol. i am clueless what will be hidden). and yet still they get a hide. merely by offending those, while talking about a subject that is offensive.

you are so balanced golly, so let me ask. a poster puts up an article stating japan has vending machines on corner streets sellimg schoolgirls soiled undies to grown men.

another poster comes along and says we should be accepting of this, even respectful to the grown man. (i have already been told i am not allowed to be offended by the offensive). the poster said we should not feel ick, we should not shame the grown man, we should hold no value judgment on the man.

here i sit. what is the conclusion of grown men buying soiled underwear of girls, i ask myself? men buy the soiled undies of schoolgirls to fantasize about these girls. right? that is factual. what are they fantasizing about? conversation? respect? helping them with their homework?

no.

so. how do i convey what these men are fantasizing about and why i get to feel ick, shame these men and have a value judgment on these grown men.

do i say these grown men fantasize about making love to these girls? not accurate. any woman raped would be offended. sex? still not accurate cause that is not what it is. rape is the reality. but, i figure that will be hidden. so i choose the vulgar fuck. that is disconnecting from a consensual act as much as i can without stating rape.

i am talking about a vulgar subject.

how am i suppose to challenge this belief that was put on the board without offending. we can say i could have just not connected the dots. wrapped it up all pretty so it was easily digestible. but it is not pretty. keeping it pretty is a huge part of the problem.

i see more and more posts hidden because they may offend the jury, about a subject that is offensive. and it is telling me, the offensive is allowed. challenging the offensive is not.

[BainsBane]

73. Exactly

Unless of course one blames racism on people of color or sexism on women. Then that's okay.

[geek tragedy]

52. and of course the transphobes. I got a post hidden for calling a transphobic troll a bigot

AFTER they had been zapped by MIRT.

Of course, a jury had let the post stating that transpeople were "boys who want to pretend to be girls and play dress up" stand.

[BainsBane]

64. Are you serious?

Was that during the Chelsea Manning threads? I have to give Skinner and EarlG credit for being on top of the transphobes. They got rid of a lot of them at that time, some very long term members of 10 yrs.

[geek tragedy]

65. No, from yesterday:

You are a transphobic bigot. I hope you get banned before reaching double digits in posts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4168395

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This is unnecessary. Via jury, community standards were upheld. The poster is unhappy with the jury results, so has resorted to a personal attack.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Dec 12, 2013, 01:40 PM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: insulting, over-the-top comment - time to stop these insults - they seem to be on the increase
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: lol, looks like name removed got in an alert before he got banned... Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: I feel obligated to leave a comment, but what I have to say never gets heard. Okay, I'll try. There are far better ways to debate than with unsubstantiated personal attacks. Whether or not someone has 5 posts or 50,000 makes them no less or more a member of our community.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Note that "name removed" only got as high as 3 posts, so at least my wish came true. Note that the alerter seems to agree with the transphobic bigotry.

[BainsBane]

66. That's a case of selective alerting in pursuit of a personal vendetta

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2013, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Most people don't alert on comments to trolls, but if they don't like you because, for example, you don't accept the inherent superiority of men over women, they'll use the alert system to go after you. Since I know I have a target on my back, I don't make those comments to trolls. That doesn't stop them from alerting on posts that contain no insults, however.

[smirkymonkey]

79. Grrrrr....

Sometimes I can't even comment because I am so afraid of what is going to come out. I am not always so good at hiding my anger. Sorry for your experience.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

54. ... and Trolls ...

don't forget the Trolls and Zombies and Socks
and People who have been called back from hibernation.

Troops have been rallied.

[Squinch]

68. It's been a trolltastic week.

[ismnotwasm]

69. +1

[Squinch]

70. Actually, I should say we HOPE it's been trolltastic. We HOPE this isn't just the new DU attitude.

[ismnotwasm]

71. Actually, I think there's been a slide toward libertarianism

Trolls galore-- and a few with time here as well, but I have a Libertarian brother, and some things I read here could come straight out of his mouth

[smirkymonkey]

80. "Trolltastic" LOL !

I am stealing that one!

[Squinch]

81. Feel free!