Rape culture is real. I was born into it.

[geek tragedy]

My dad is by all outwards signs a down the line liberal. Votes straight ticket Democratic in a deep red state, favors taxing the rich, social spending, pro-choice and marriage equality, etc. For all I would know, he could post at DU and fit right in.

Recently, he asked my radical feminist wife (a term she embraces proudly) in a discussion he started about professional athletes and 'groupies':

To what extent are the women responsible for provoking a rape?

She showed extraordinary restraint, asking (in a slightly elevated tone) "are you suggesting that some women deserve to be raped?" He was in the midst of a mealy-mouthed reply when the conversation was interrputed (thankfully).

I wish I could say I was surprised--but I wasn't. He's pushing 70, and while he's evolved through his life on some issues, on that issue he's still a damn caveman. No, he's not a potential rapist (especially at this age), he's not ostensibly a misogynist according to the more obvious measures, doesn't buy into gender stereotypes etc. But, he still retains the rape culture baggage he picked up growing up in a backwards, socially conservative area. My siblings and I have tried to correct his thinking on this issue, but at this point it's pretty clear he's never gonna change on the issue. Just have to hope he stops talking about it and never gets called to serve on a jury for a sexual assault/rape prosecution.

[Squinch]

1. My mother, the mother of five daughters, used to remark

when passing a woman who was dressed revealingly, "she's just asking for it."

We were all born into it.

[geek tragedy]

2. One of the more challenging concepts connected with the patriarchy is that it's

not a simple matter of men vs women--patriarchy is an ideology that depends on women to uphold it almost as much as it depends on men.

[Squinch]

3. Interestingly, it was my father who insisted that I reach past gender roles in order

to do the things I wanted to do, and he taught me how to do that by example. He was the one who held the feminist beliefs, really. (Though he'd probably faint dead away if he ever heard me say that!)

So, how lucky was I, huh?

[geek tragedy]

4. sounds like a great dad. nt

[wryter2000]

11. I've debated women on DU who say the same thing

Of course, I can't be sure they're women just because they say they are, but I've heard that often enough from women to believe these people.

Disgusting.

[Squinch]

12. Yes. It's so self-hating. Not real enlightened.

[Sheldon Cooper]

13. The women who so eagerly embrace the patriarchy are driven by fear.

Fear that if they don't go along, the same fate might await them. They would never admit this, of course.

[gaspee]

14. I think it's so internalized

that they don't even realize they are doing it.

[redqueen]

15. I agree.

It's just 'the way things are'. Unquestioned.

[Sheldon Cooper]

16. Oh I agree.

But pointing it out to them really hits a nerve.

[ismnotwasm]

5. My dad used to tell me

That once a man "got to a certain point" and a women started showing reluctance --he couldn't stop himself, so it wasn't rape. He never admitted to it, but it wouldn't surprise me if he raped women based on this theory-- including my mother.

[geek tragedy]

6. A perfect--but also painful--illustration of the harm that the 'men can't help it'

and 'men NEED xyz' baloney does--it excuses and even leads to men committing crimes and brutality because that's just how it is stop arguing with biology, you ant-science man-hater etc etc

[ismnotwasm]

10. Exactly

He learned that bullshit from somewhere, it didn't come out of a vacuum; it's What you get with rape culture

[Squinch]

7. Oh, God! I'm so sorry!

[ismnotwasm]

8. Oh he's an ass

He has some redeeming qualities, but-- suffice it to say this one on his milder opinions.

[Squinch]

9. Wow.