Discussing what constitutes a "healthy" body is a potentially dangerous but necessary debate...

[Gravitycollapse]

It comes in layers in the same way that feminism comes in waves.

The primary layer to me is the initial rebellion against largely unattainable body ideals. This usually comes in variations of extremely thin bodies. Sometimes these women are very thin throughout their entire body and others have exaggerated proportions with thin legs, stomachs and wide hips with large breasts. To the general population, these body types are rarer than others. And it is not the unlikeliness that makes media portrayal such an issue. It is the obsession with these body types to the neglect of all others that is the problem.

The second layer to me is the recognition that we are not fighting against specific body types. We should not be shaming the model body type because, despite most of the population not possessing such proportions, there are still many women who look just like them. We have to be careful to criticize the exploitation of these types of bodies without producing an overt shame towards them.

The third layer to me is the final stage. It seeks to make a fully informed, well rounded argument that does not trip itself up on petty bickering or accidental shaming. This third layer correctly identifies the true enemy which is not the body of any woman but, instead, the sexual colonization of the female body.

The bottom line is we have to be able to attack publications like Sports Illustrated while reminding ourselves that, despite their complicity in the colonization process, these magazine models are not ugly. They are not disgusting or vile or impossible figures. They, like all other women, are beautiful human beings whose bodies are their own and we must reinforce their subjective ownership and self-esteem



I didn't want to post this in GD because it has become a total circus. But I felt it needed to be posted somewhere.

[sufrommich]

1. Excellent post. k&r

[Lizzie Poppet]

2. Wonderful post!

I get uncomfortable in many "body ideal" conversations. I'm naturally pretty thin, and as an avid cyclist, that's not likely to change any time soon. Not that I look even slightly like a model (I'm too short and flat-chested!), but I've had people intimate (and even explicitly state) that I "shouldn't complain" about body ideal issues. Posts like yours that remind us all that those with the media-preferred body type aren't the enemy are invaluable.

On the matter of what is and is not a "healthy" body type, I think the biggest need for education is that there is no one body type that constitutes "healthy" to the exclusion of others. What works for one person could well be unhealthy for another. For example, British Olympic weightlifter Zoe Smith and US soccer superstar Alex Morgan have very different body types. Yet both are world-class athletes with access to cutting edge training programs and expert nutritionists. That both are very healthy indeed is utterly obvious...despite their very different bodies. Whether someone's body is unhealthy or not is something for her and her physician to determine.

[eridani]

4. It isn't your body that is healthy or unhealthy

It's your habits. Those you can control, and healthy habits are no guarantee whatsoever that your body will ever look like what the workout-obsessed think a healthy body looks like.

[seabeyond]

7. another thing we find, even from the men thinking they are being supportive. them say... i prefer

women that have.... whatever

you know what dude, dont care.

the day we are talking to the small dick dudes, and comforting them by obsessing on their body, telling what we prefer.....

it is not helping women for men to tell us what they prefer.

[In_The_Wind]

3. K&R

[seabeyond]

9. i see you deleted the image of women turning to hags. let me ask ITW, and i would really like a

thoughtful answer.

on the SI thread and the others, really on most threads discussing the objectification of women, i challenge you to find any feminist, you know, members of hof that talked about the girls looks, dissing them in any way. but, recognize that we were discussing the issue of presenting them as a fuck, the pose, the glorification on a sports type magazine, having the young bods to entertain the men in objectification, media, society, the influences of us. the big picture. not the girls.

i know many of the women that defend the objectification of women tried to push the argument back on us that we were dissing youngs girls body, or these young womens choices.

repeatedly i told these women defending objectification that the girls themselves and their choice, was insignificant to what we were talking.

i could not get the women that defend the objectification away from the accusation that we were dissing the girls. otherwise, they had no way to argue the issue. you know. a strawman. a faux argument. an argument totally created for no other reason, but an unwillingness to actually address the issues.

you put a hag picture up of us women.

come in and applaud this thread

part of the crowd high fiving delivering a fake argument

refusal to acknowledge that we are way beyond the feminism 101 shit

what is that? please explain it to me. i would like to understand. because all i see is a whole lot of game playing.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. ... who needs PM = DUmail ... Links work just fine ITW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018575746

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. and while I am at it ... the picture still shows in edit history. link =

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=575310

[ismnotwasm]

5. Many feminist's I've read

Warn against rejecting actual beauty, while maintaining that false beauty standards and perceptions are harmful. The fact of the beauty of those women bothers me far less then their objectification.

What bothers me even more, is the fact that they are all white, without the variation the is so essentially in beauty and aesthetics. They are presented in a way that reduced them to 3 butts. I've seen SI covers, where although the woman is always objectified-- that's the point of it-- the photographers captured the whole beauty of the model. As long as we keep the standard for beauty young white girls, and specific body parts, we'll have a hard time evolving out of objectification and into appreciation of the aesthetics of the human form.

The most beautiful woman I've ever known was a friend of mine from years back. She was of mixed blood and had this perfect face. It truly was compelling in it's beauty and she has gorgeous long very curly hair (she was a mix of a Black, white and a bit of Filipino) She had a wonderful personality, and though we've lost touch over the years what I remember is the laughter-- god we cracked up over anything. Did crazy things, like party with a circus one time-- (now there lies a tale) or just played Dominos for hours.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder yes, but there is a reason someone like Marilyn Monroe captures our attention after all these years. Like my friend, her beauty is compelling, fascinating and men and women are drawn to it.

We must expand our standards, I believe into appreciation that is not racist objectification. People are always going to be sexually attracted to one another, and have beauty preferences, but we don't have to be so ugly in how we go about it. And how we go about it is ugly indeed.

As far as maintaining body health-- that's easier than people realize; again false, harmful perceptions of beauty intimidate, and make reasonable goals seem impossible or not desirable ("that last ten pounds" syndrome I call it)

[seabeyond]

8. yes. it was sticking out three asses to be fucked. that was the whole purpose of that cover. nt

[ismnotwasm]

11. Yup

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Even more obvious than usual

[seabeyond]

6. reality, and as i repeated a number of times last couple days. the models are insignificant.

it is not about them. it is not about what they look like or that they made a choice. they are not a part of my discussion. cant get your head past that, not gonna hear what i am saying. this is not about individual girls on a cover. BUT that does not mean we cannot discuss the bigger issue and the real problem.

[ismnotwasm]

13. It's funny how people don't hear that.

They hear jealousy or bitterness of the loss of up youth. They hear 'first amendment rights' They hear all kinds of things that aren't true, or aren't relevant in the situation being discussed.