Why 6-Year-Old Girls Want to Be Sexy

[redqueen]

http://www.livescience.com/21609-self-sexualization-young-girls.html

Most girls as young as 6 are already beginning to think of themselves as sex objects, according to a new study of elementary school-age kids in the Midwest.

(snip)

Recent books like "The Lolita Effect" (Overlook TP, 2008) and "So Sexy So Soon" (Ballantine Books, 2009) have raised concerns that girls are being sexualized at a young age, and Starr said her study is the first to provide empirical evidence for the trend. In 2007, the American Psychological Association sounded the alarm in a report on the sexualization of girls. It documented consequences of self-objectification and sexualization that have been identified in mainly college-age women, ranging from distractibility during mental tasks and eating disorders to reduced condom use and fewer women pursuing careers in math and science. Starr and her colleagues wrote that they expected similar outcomes in younger adolescents and girls.

The APA report, which inspired the new study, cited widespread sexualization of women in popular culture. "In study after study, findings have indicated that women more often than men are portrayed in a sexual manner … and are objectified," the APA authors wrote. "These are the models of femininity presented for young girls to study and emulate."

The authors cited examples like "advertisements (e.g. the Sketchers naughty and nice ad that featured Christina Aguilera dressed as a schoolgirl in pigtails, with her shirt unbuttoned, licking a lollipop), dolls (e.g. Bratz dolls dressed in sexualized clothing such as miniskirts, fishnet stockings and feather boas), clothing (e.g. thong underwear sized for 7- to 10-year-olds, some printed with slogans such as 'wink wink'), and television programs (e.g. a televised fashion show in which adult models in lingerie were presented as young girls)." Parents, teachers and peers were also cited as influencing girls' sexualized identities.

...

[PDJane]

1. And this is not that far from the Islamist ideals.

There is a young man on the front page here, a licensed street preacher who seems to think that women would be hassled less if they covered themselves up from top to toe, the way they do in the middle eastern countries. He seems to be ignoring the brutal rapes and brutal retributions that are a common occurence in those countries.

Coverage here: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/16/muslim-street-cleric-wants-to-protect-canadian-women-from-sex-assault-by-forcing-them-to-cover-up

Neither view is healthy, and things don't get done without the participation of women.

We will have reached equality when women are considered as people with the same intelligence and aspirations and abilities as men; just people.

[Warpy]

31. We'll have reached equality when males are responsible

for controlling their own behavior and can no longer project their crimes onto us. You know, "Look how she was dressed, she was asking for it." No, asshole, she wasn't.

[seabeyond]

2. it is much deeper than just eating disorders. a society that has totally dehumanized the female

gender. and that has much more profound consequences.

[redqueen]

3. One thing I find very disturbing...

is how many people put their imagined 'right' to see sexualized images of women or to sexualize themselves ahead of anyone else's rights.

The effects are being manifested in more and more obvious ways. I wonder when any of them will bother to stop thinking only of themselves.

[seabeyond]

4. absolutely redq

not often discussed but that is the elephant in the room.

[loli phabay]

6. kinda confused over this one, are yoiu saying that someone hasnt the right to take pictures of

themselves and then put it online for people to look at, at the very heart of freedom is the ability for you to make choices about your own body and what and were you do with it.

[Iris]

5. I hope future studies address this - Parents, teachers and peers

I'm horrified at the way parents seem to unthinkingly buy into this. I have now seen 2 series of photos of a 1 year old girl forced to eat cake on her birthday. Sadly, one was my niece and that was 9 years ago. She also received 4 Barbies on that birthday.

The most recent one was on Facebook. The mother went to the trouble of having a professional photographer record the force-feeding of the cake, the fake joy of having cake all over the face, and then the forced cleaning of the face after the desired photos were achieved. In addition, the child was dressed in an oversized tutu that looked like a wedding dress and had a gigantic purple flower/bow on top of her head. Someone commented that she was "so cute" and I was thinking, "How can you even tell?"

In another 2 years, that child will be attending a make-up and/or mani/pedi party; I'm sure of it.

[seabeyond]

7. what is this with the cake thing? lol. i didnt even have a party for kids until 3 or 4.

they were too young to know or remember anything. they ate it or didnt. but, i was at a party for one yr old and a sister in law did it with the boy, not the mother, for sure. but i thought it incredibly immature to forcibly smear food on face to only have to clean it all up.

[CrispyQ]

9. I thought the smashing the cake in the face was a wedding tradition.

A stupid one, but still, a wedding tradition. ???

[seabeyond]

10. ya... that one is stupid, too. i know they want the little ones to dig i and getting messy

to take a picture showing how much the kid loves sweets and the cake and i guess extension, thrilled with first bday.... though they dont know shit so that alone is a stupid expectation, and the disappointment is force the kid to do what is expected.

at that age a lot are bothered with feel.... and dont like the unknown feel of the icing, many do not like messy on hands and the parent is disappointed.

(i know, too much info and analysis on something too stupid).

mine didnt dig in and get messy. first had an ice cream cone. dad held it. ice cream everywhere. but the cake? too young. too sweet.

i dont know that i know what iris is talking about.

[loli phabay]

11. my kids were the opposite, both of them just grabbed and started to eat.

probuably due to them being non fussy eaters and used to eating wierd stuff as they say. Plus the cakes had lots of fruit on them and one thing they love is fruit.

[seabeyond]

13. good to hear. nt

[Iris]

17. If you are over analyzing, come sit by me!

I love it! Because I feel so isolated in my disgust sometimes!

Yes- I can't imagine giving a baby cake - and these aren't homemade or even Betty Crocker cakes but bakery cakes just teeming with whipped hydrogenated oils. Gross. And cruel and irresponsible.

Ice cream - good idea. A little sweetness but easy to eat without getting to messy.

[seabeyond]

88. cakes just teeming with whipped hydrogenated oils.

those cakes are so popular. i was the unusual mom cause i never made or allowed. i wont even eat them as adult when i am at a kids party, with it.... eeew. give me homemade any time.

agreed.

[Iris]

15. Some people seem to think it's some kind of "tradition"

whatever. There's no reason for a big party for a 1 or 2 year old. Isn't a small family gathering enough? And I'm not sure I'd give a 1 yr. old cake under any circumstances.

[seabeyond]

90. when i was single

my brother and his wife threw a party for their one yr old. an incredible cost..... really, a party for adults. truly amazing. all out there. i was flabbergasted. no, we did not do that in our house. we started 3 or four. a couple years of parties and presents. i went to one kids party at about 6. he had so many presents. like 20 or more kids, not to mention every family member of a very large catholic (no bc) family. lol. i was shocked i tell you, at the number of presents. from 6 on i told the kids they could invite a couple kids over for a sleepover, NO presents but from family. now, it is dinner out and presents from family.

my kids and their friends live in a place of things.... we really minimized that in this family. i am seeing it serve the kids well, as they get older. work a job. have to spend their money on stuff.

[seabeyond]

8. interesting that sport take a girl beyond this, and yea, what i was saying. but, also

the mothers role in it. i had mentioned the study i rid where the mother is the highest influence with sexism. it makes sense that religious with no moderation in culture would point to an extreme cause a backlash or rebellion.

[Iris]

16. I think parents don't realize how much influence they actually have.

And that makes them susceptible to trying to do the right thing, which ends up being terribly wrong in a lot of cases.

[loli phabay]

14. was thinking about this article and not sure i agree with it %100, was thinking about my daughter 5

she likes this kinda stuff, loves boas jewelry etc not because she thinks it makes her sexy but she likes to look pretty, now its her image of pretty so sometimes its wellington boots, a skirt, fur jacket and a bucket but its her idea. As humans we are sexual creatures, like in our gender identification our sexuality starts from an early age. On edit sexuality might not be the right word but children are aware of the difference between the sexes even at this early age, regardless of input. It is strange to see my daughter want a rifle but it must be a pink one and how my son loves mossy oak to the detriment of anything else even though ive never worn any in his lifetime. As a species we are complicated and as individuals we are all unique.

[boston bean]

18. When you say this:

children are aware of the difference between the sexes even at this early age, regardless of input.

I would like to know how you know this with such certainty. How do you know she is not mimicking what she sees in society and even what her parents present to her, even on a subliminal level...

I am a female, and I can tell you that I was taught the difference.

[loli phabay]

19. well at the most basic level they know there is an anatomy difference

And though anecdotal ihave seen how kids naturally gravitate to gender specific items now this may be mimicry but i dont see a problem with it as long as the child is happy and content. Because my daughter is big into dress up and my son is more into building stuff i am not going to worry.

[boston bean]

22. Are you saying physical characteristics?

I don't know, about that. She may see you and your wife differently, due to muscle mass and so forth, but when playing with other children, boys and girls, I'm sure she wouldn't know the difference based upon physical traits.

How does your daughter know to act more like a woman and your son know to act more like a man.

[loli phabay]

24. not a man or a woman they are kids so act like a boy and a girl

Probuably their characters and seeing the world and i have no problems with them taking on the roles they are as long as they are happy. Theres no way in hell am i going to try to force some neutral philosophy on them wheen they are developing tbeir own traits and likes.

[boston bean]

27. Who asked you to force anything upon your children?

Please do not try to re-frame this.

What is being discussed here is to try to have you recognize that you cannot say that your daughter acts like a girl cause she was born to act like a girl, and the same for your son. Just because your daughter likes pink and your son likes guns, tells me nothing except that they are fitting in perfectly with their gender roles. You have given no evidence that these traits they have is something they were born with.

[loli phabay]

30. fair enough. i got no problem with them fulfilling gender roles as they are happy and content.

Wbatever they want yo be as long as they are happy i am okay with it.

[seabeyond]

44. "Her thing is hunting trapping fishing" she has already proved to you the gender roles are bullshit

now, if your son was not conditioned, why wouldnt he LOVE the boa. it is not about a striptease for the kids, they know nothing, or they shouldnt. it is not about gender. it is soft, it is feathers, it is colorful. boy or girl would love it just out of the feel and play of it.

or, the boy learns he does not get to be as diverse as the girl. you know. able to adopt the male role of "Her thing is hunting trapping fishing" and yet still play in the colorful world of boas and jewlery. where aas the boy is more tightly controlled on what his play allows. cause the boy are "men" at 2. and the women is a "girl" at 50.

[loli phabay]

50. you know what they say about assumptions

He has no interest in colour as such he just never has been apart from when he would sort toy cars by colour. Something his sister never did. He loves to build stuff whether its lego bricks or with wood in the yard its his thing. He will hunt fish and trap he is just not into it as much as her. As i said they are happy so why should i try to push some role on them to fulfill what someone else thinks would make them happier.

[seabeyond]

52. where are the assumtpion? i was asking you a question. that is not assumptions. the difference

would be, i was exploring possibilities. i have yet to see one little boy, before conditioned, that did not love the feel of a boa. so i was asking..... if your boy was ot defined in a role, why wouldnt he too, love the boa. maybe he would. maybe he wouldnt. maybe he has never been encourage to step out of the box. i do not know. but those are not assumptions.

you say boa as if it is a girl thing. a boa is a fun thing. so is jewelry, ect.... until the kid learns he is not allowed because it does not meet the definition.

BUT.... you truly ignored the greater point that i made in the thread about how girls are allowed a much larger leeway and diversity in role than our boys are. the societal restrictions that are harmful to all men because it denies them being their authentic self and figuring out manhood themselves instead of what the beer chugging commercial teaches them.

wrong on the assumptions dude.

[loli phabay]

59. okay i will take that back but trust me stepping outside tbe box is the norm

Vanilla is not something that we practice.

[loli phabay]

25. well they know he has a penis and she dosent

[boston bean]

28. And how does she know this with others outside the family?

She may know your son has a penis, and she may assume his friends who like to play with guns have a penis too.

[loli phabay]

34. considering all the kids in tbeir peer group use guns that would not be an identifier

Main way she can tell is probiably when people go for a pee.

[seabeyond]

40. at that young age the difference in having a penis and not having a penis teaching nothing of all

the gender roles we TEACH our children that has to do with having a penis and not having a penis. yes. they know one has a penis. and one does not have a penis. to the little kid, that does not equal ALL the vast difference of gender that we teach the kids until the are adults and the men start seeing all the world thru the eyes of having a penis.

[loli phabay]

45. no they know what a penis is. its not exaclty something that should be hidden esp whilst peeing

So they know penis equals boy no penis equals girl. Boy shoots rifle girl shoots rifle boy swims girl swims boy becomes dad girl becomes mommy. Mommy gave birth to us. I love how you really think that all guys are monolithic and only worship their own penis. I personally love the similarities and uniqueness of both genders and dont feel i have to install some wierd feelings of inadequacy in my daughter due to her lack of a penis.

[seabeyond]

48. did i say it needed to be hidden? assumptions? my kids were naked all summer ever summer until THEY

decided to put on clothes, when out in the back yard playing in the water. does it sound like i have an issue? naked, yea... all for it. the are little. freedom.

Boy shoots rifle girl shoots rifle boy swims girl swims

yea.... finally, we agree. i think this is what i have been saying since post ONE.

dont feel i have to install some wierd feelings of inadequacy in my daughter due to her lack of a penis.

please, do.... point out where i say, suggest, hint at this fuckin immature bullshit for a false argument. that is about fuckin disgusting.

[seabeyond]

20. i dont think there is a lot of thinkig if you are suggesting society does not feed this

all around our kids. you say "edit sexuality might not be the right word but children are aware of the difference between the sexes even at this early age, regardless of input."

from the day your daughter was born, she hears the comments, isnt she pretty. she is just beautiful. from the day your son was born he heard, look at him pump those fist, he is going to be an active boy. he needs to run. he sure can swing that bat. she is so pretty. she is going to be a charmer. she sits so quietly. isnt she nice. he is going to be a football player. look at him run. he is an active boy. she is so pretty.

what do you think your daughter is being taught.

every show she sees, every commercial, every cartoon, every disney movie, every toy in her pink section tells her who she is. nora is the only little girl in all of the childrens entertainment where she is not assigned a strong female (sexual) presence. and it is very defined and controlled. every time she stands in the toy isle she is being told who she is.

the boy section has no strong color identification.

then there is how the parents talk to their children. and how they talk differently to the genders.

to suggest outside forces do not effect our children at such a young age, that it is an innate quality, to me, is not insightful. that she wants a gun is wonderful. right there she is stepping out of the box created for her. gotta have it pink? why not? it is the only color allowed if you are a girl. thru adulthood. every issue that has to do with women is put in pink. do you really think it is because we women LOVE the color so much? do you really think we are making this decision that even in adulthood we are given an identifying color for our gender?

i had a son that wore out two of my high heels and loved my make up. another son that carried a baby doll for a year. two sons that from the youngest of ages read veraciously. one son that was so articulate and so good at communication at such an early years, he sounded like an adult and pissed off some adults. (all these are girl traits). neither boys excelled at math. both, top of the list in english. neither boys built things regardless of the effort and money i spent try to interest them because it was a "boy" thing. both played with dolls (gi joes).

all three nieces played war with sons. all three nieces wrestled. two out of three nieces played sports and had to be active and move and run. one of my nephews sits quietly.

what i am saying is,

It is strange to see my daughter want a rifle

this alone suggests that though you do not deny your daughter the opportunity, you are in that defined gender role in your parenting right there with so many other parents.

it wasnt strange for me to see sons at a very young age in down time, often, reading or sculpting clay, or coloring or painting.

it wasnt strange wrestling (mom wrestling) with the sons and the nieces.

it wasnt strange seeing the nieces playing war or sports.

they were raised as people. not gender. and they did not follow the assigned gender role.

two nieces totally rejected pink all on their own because they recognized the manipulation and assignment from society. refused all thiings pink. not innately, but intellectually.

[loli phabay]

21. no i was saying it was strange to see her want a rifle but it had to be pink

As none of the guns she uses are pink she just likes the colour. You are making lots of assumptions in saying that she was always told she is pretty and the boy is not. Her thing is hunting trapping fishing and then more traditional girl stuff revardless of wbat we do and honestly i gog no problem if she wants to be a girl and do traditional fe.ale stuff as long as shes happy and content. I dont get this trying to force her to go the other way as if it would make her happier. All kids are unique and frankly im glad that my kids are so different from each other as it means they compliment each other and teach each other.

[boston bean]

23. You're daughter may very well just like the color pink.

That does not discount the fact that society says pink is a girls color, and you cannot say for certain whether she really likes pink, cause she likes pink, or it was an idea she learned to conform to societal roles.

[loli phabay]

26. we cannot say for certain either way and as long as shes happy im okay with it

[boston bean]

29. Fine, that is all I am saying, you cannot be certain.

Thank you for recognizing this.

[seabeyond]

42. are you really suggesting that a COLOR is gender specific and not taught? are you really suggesting?

omg... you think a gender is born and there is a possibility that the brain says, i am girl, therefore i am pink? and a boy says, pink.... eeeew, boy, blue?

come on

[loli phabay]

51. no once again you are using your filter

My daughter loves pink my son does not. They both like mossy oak i dont. I like purple they dont. The wife loves brown and though sbe looks good i it i dont like the colour. See people have lots of likes and dislikes that are not some form of mind controlnconditioning. You know we are all different.

[seabeyond]

56. well, i am thrilled to hear and know that you do not think your girl loves pink simply because she

is a girl.

woooosh, got that straight.

we can only learn thru communication and conversation. i ask, you answer. or vice versa.

[loli phabay]

61. no pro lem i find the written word the worst form of communication there is

Nuance and inflection are a sent.

[seabeyond]

64. i really am enjoying my conversation with you. another oooops, on the roles we are given.

i have always been aggressive, so i am told, in communication. the house i was raised in with all manly men. i had no choice if i was gonna survive and be heard.

but, i do love to think, discuss and interact.....

blunt and to the point. what men say they want and need. until a woman is, then they have issue.

this is an observation, and not pointing the finger at you. i do not feel that from you.

[loli phabay]

70. different culture i suppose also im very open about stuff though i will disagree with you on everyth

I dont feel my view is more alid just different and from a different place.

[seabeyond]

71. but... you do not disagree with me on everything. after all these posts, we disagree on very little

so where would be the knee jerk reaction to automatically disagree with me on all things? that does not make sense.

[loli phabay]

73. we just need to avoid each other when sex is the subject as i know our views are miles apart

No biggie as i said i dont feel my view is right or wrong just different. I lurked for awhile before signing up

[seabeyond]

76. maybe. maybe not. i do not assume. questions work better for me. and clarification. nt

[redqueen]

33. It is easy to teach kids to be aware of all the silly gender conditioning messages.

It is extremely difficult to shield them from the messages. As you said, those messages are almost inescapable. You'd have to watch very little tv, no advertising (how do you escape billboards, signs on walls and store windows, etc?), very very few movies, and somehow convince every other child and adult they come in contact with to somehow avoid the gender conditioning treatment that most people aren't even conscious of.

Once they get in school its just impossible. By second grade the gender policing children are more than willing to bully other kids about what behaviors, clothing choices, play preferences, etc. are not acceptable based on your child's sex.

[seabeyond]

32. her authentic self. that is the goal for both our boy and girl. from the youngest of ages i was

challenging ALL things that came on that tv being fed to the boys. this cereal is the BEST tasting cereal ever. my four year old had to have that cereal. i knew he would hate it. but the tv said it was the best tasting cereal ever. of course they did, they want you to buy it. i told him, we will buy, he will see, and lesson learned to not be suckered in. gotta use your brain. always use your brain.

how much have you challenged daughter on pink? she may well like it. i dont know. my niece at 4 is at the house. had conversation with my 20 yr old niece. sons both told young one, older niece doesnt like pink. hates pink. rejects pink. the younger said, then she is not a girl.

came in to me. i told her i hate pink.

no you dont

yes i do

nu uh. you are a girl.

no i am not i am a woman.

your a girl

a woman

you are a girl too

no, i am a woman and i dont like pink.

you have to like pink.

no i dont

yes you do.

nu uh

what color do you like

green


the point.... it was clear that NO ONE challenged this girl on her assumption that pink was a girl color. why? why would there at least not be a discussion how society force feeds pink on a girl. 4 is a wonderful age to get kids thinking.

what really flipped her out is when my 17 yr old son said he liked pink. pink is a good color for him and he has 3, 4 shirts that are pink. spun her world out into orbit.

[loli phabay]

35. well she knows pink is a good colour on her and she feels it suits her

Though she knows its not good for hunting. Personally i love pink as a colour as well and find it suits my colouration.

[boston bean]

39. That's very good for you and your daughter.

I am glad you both like pink.

I hate it.

[loli phabay]

41. rofl i loved the finality of the hate of pink.

[seabeyond]

43. well then. there you go. it is not about gender, it is about liking the color and liking it on.

it washes out my older niece and youngest son. they do not dislike, they dont look good in.

big deal

[loli phabay]

53. never said it was just said my daughter likes pink regardless of others input

She likes it and thinks it suits her so she can wear it. Son hates it so does wife actually i like it.

[seabeyond]

58. i am glad to hear, cause this conversation started out sounding you thought pink was about gender

specified role. i am glad to hear, that you do not feel that.

[loli phabay]

65. no i was just against forcing either view on kids. i am for allowing them to find their own way

[seabeyond]

68. we agree. me, too. i totally refuse that type of parenting. hence, me teaching them

no parroting, they HAVE to think for themselves. arrive there themselves. in my book, the only way to parent. i do open up all possibilities, thoughts, experiences to their minds. we are a house that is open to all stuff, for discussion and learning.

i get bored, with boring kids. mine are not. they intellectually stimulate me more than adults. i am a lucky woman.

[loli phabay]

72. mines are a pain in the ass most of the time but they are fun and cheeky as crap

[seabeyond]

74. ha ha ha. see, the opposite, though nto a disagreement. mine are not a pain in the ass and not

cheeky at all.

actually, my youngest who sits at 14 is thinking he wants to be a comedian. so we are getting a lot of cheeky now. didnt when he was younger. but, wow, can he bust us up. which is fun. my oldest was an adult as a kid, an adult as a teen, and i expect him to be thrilled with life, walking into the adult world.

they are fun.... loli. enjoy. you sound like you are having a wonderful time in the shootin, fishin and trappin. a nifty for your daughter, spending the time with you, in the outdoors. i grew up on a farm, i insisted i had to wear a dress all the time, and hated the dirt, no sidewalks and animals and flies, lol lol.

my husband is into all that, and sons really enjoy it, too. oldest more than younger son.

[loli phabay]

77. i hate to say it but her mother is the big hunter i will do it but she is more skillfull

Fishing i am good at but her mom could take me down before i got anywhere nearnenough to get her.

[seabeyond]

79. ha. cool. my hubby has found in shooting, the girls/women often do better than the boys/men

it is never a surprise to him.

my mom spent a lot of time, growing up, hunting. it was time out of her dysfunctional house to spend time with an uncle that paid attention to her.

me? i do not like killing.

top shots though, one of the only shows i watch on tv. our date night.

[loli phabay]

81. my duaghter loves duck dynasty and river monsters

The killing part is no real problem as its food and it makes no real difference whether its plant fungi or animal. As i said different culture.

[seabeyond]

82. i was raised on a farm where at two i ran around the house to see father break the neck of two

chickens. i hear i didnt talk to him for a week, lol. we butchered our beef, and drank the milk from the cows.

my husband hunts and fish and the sons do, too. then he comes home and cooks it... lol. what is different?

[loli phabay]

84. maybbe not as much just the not killing thing

Hich i have no problem with. Just a lot of people have different viewpoints and as i said they tend to think anyone outside of this is wrong. Intry not to judge anyone even if i totally disagree with them or find their views abhorrent.

[seabeyond]

85. mmmm, well see, i am very much open to differing views. i married a repug. i gotta be open. nt

[loli phabay]

86. rofl i stand by my advice that we avoid each other in any sex threads or you will be looking

To kill me figuratively speaking.

[seabeyond]

87. nope. cant do that. if i have something to say, well.... there you go.

good chatting iwth you.

[loli phabay]

89. no probs i am just going to go to your other thread to disagree with you talk to you again

[seabeyond]

91. ha ha. make my day.... lol. nt

[JDPriestly]

36. I do not think that this article is true at all.

In fact, I think it is utterly false and imagined.

Six-year-olds are six years old. Most of them are just imitating mommy. It isn't about sex. It is about identifying with their mothers. It has always been that way. And if grandma is the dominating female figure in their lives, six-year-old girls will want to imitate grandma. Or if that woman is a teacher or a babysitter, then the little girl will imitate that major female figure. That is how it works.

This is how little girls find their ways in life. Nothing new. And this probably will never change. If mommy sings in the church choir or brings the flowers for the altar every Sunday, the little girl will play that she is just like mommy.

[loli phabay]

37. in some ways i agree with you. my daughter wants to get married and have kids

My wife and i take it as a compliment that she sees her mom is happy and wants to emulate that. Though she hasnt quite grasped the concept that shes too young.

[seabeyond]

46. does your son? cause my sons have always had that expectation also. nt

[loli phabay]

55. nope he is vehemtly against it but hes only 7 so im not surprised

[seabeyond]

60. what do you mean he is only 7 so not surprised? cause innately a girl has the need to marry and

have kids? and innately a boy is opposed to ball and chains forced down the isle? and takes time to resolve the condition role of marriage and having a family cause he has no sense of any of that being a boy and all busy spreading his seeds?

really, just curious.

i had no desire to marry either. oooops, bad girl. i was so old before i found a man i would even consider living with a lifetime. silly me..... he had to drag me down the isle, and here i sit, in total blisss.

[loli phabay]

63. rofl i mean he sees me miserably married. just kidding

He just has no interest in girls whereas his sister likes boys they are just different kids with different views nothing sinister init.

[seabeyond]

66. thanks. isnt that funny. but, for real. each kid is uniquely themselves. two sons.

total opposites..... yet, so the same of who they are in the foundation and base created in this home.

[redqueen]

38. Did you click the link and see the dolls used in the study? nt

[redqueen]

47. Nevermind, I already know you didn't read it.

Your quip about mommy being in the church choir and the daughter following in her footsteps shows that.

If you don't care about an issue that's one thing, but to make assertions about the validity of the article without having spent any time finding out what it's saying is a pretty silly waste of time.

[seabeyond]

49. dsk is innocent. edwards is innocent. polenski did nothing wrong. weiner is good to go.

this is consistent.

[redqueen]

54. ?????

Are those statements representative of opinions that jdpriestly has shared about those issues on DU?

[seabeyond]

62. yes. nt

[redqueen]

67. Yikes.

I hope you just misunderstood his opinions then, because DAMN!

[seabeyond]

69. and yet.... i appreciate and value jd, just amazing how consistently opposite

we are on all issues.

[JDPriestly]

92. redqueen, it is not that I think that is great behavior. I've been married to the same

dear man for longer than most DUers have lived.

It is that, with all the experience I have had in life, I realize that marital compatibility and happiness is a wonderful gift and not a common blessing. So I don't judge the unlucky people who do crazy things trying to find some sort of substitute for the real thing.

Most of all, I got sick of the fact that the political conversation is constantly being controlled by people who "out" the sexual misbehavior of people who, aside from strange sex lives make good contributions to the political life of our times.

I suspect that sexual misbehavior among the rich and famous is far more common than we may believe and that certain individuals are selected for embarrassment based not really on their uniquely horrible personal behavior but on their political stances. I suppose the price that you pay for a messy divorce and the loss of family life is less for the rich and famous than for the rest of us. And someone selects which among the rich and famous will be "outed." Those unfortunates seem to have more in common in terms of their political views (mostly slightly left-wing) than in terms of their conduct.

My point of view is supported by what happened in Congress during the period in which Clinton was being impeached. Remember how many of the prominent conservatives who were persecuting Clinton had to admit to even worse behavior? We don't know the half of what goes on, I suspect.

Of course, women are not perfect in their behavior either, but I do think we would have fewer stories of sexual depravity among politicians if we had more women who were successful in the field. I can't imagine Hillary Clinton or Barbara Boxer behaving so absurdly.

I suspect that powerful men face a lot of temptation. I cannot imagine what in the world makes it so easy for Gingrich to attract even one wife -- much less three. So, I just think that the whole emphasis on the sex lives of politicians doesn't tell us much other than that the men who get outed have enemies in the media.

All these sex scandals are just a waste of time. If I were the wife or child of one of these men, then I would have to deal with it, but if the wives and children can't deal with these men, then I feel it is none of my business.

Anyway, I raised two daughters and didn't have this problem. But then, my husband and I didn't have this problem either. I still think that little girls at five and six copy their moms. We did not allow our kids to watch TV or movies that were not appropriate to their ages. I remember suffering through many lurid Beverly Hills 90210 shows when my kids were teenagers because I did not want them watching that kind of junk without an adult present. At one point I found it so disgusting that I wrote a letter complaining to Fox.

But when it comes to politicians, I don't like the focus on the negative conduct of Democrats. I cannot believe that Democratic politicians are worse than Republican ones in this regard.

[redqueen]

93. No, dems are no worse than republicans.

Deceitful, dishonest behavior directed towards one spouse in the interest of getting some ass on the side is not something limited to one side of the political isle.

As for it being fair ground for politics, the right wing changed the game in their desperate attacks on Clinton, before that it seems they and the press were pretty much all in agreement that it was a perk of power that no one had the right to call out.

[JDPriestly]

95. The struggle to enforce marital fidelity without more is just futile in many situations.

It is a very personal matter like other aspects of sex.

Some marriages are just for show. That is the business of the partners to the marriage.

Mine is not, but I have known people who married for reasons that did not require fidelity -- for instance to appear heterosexual when they were not at all.

So marital fidelity should be a matter of concern for the couple and not others.

[redqueen]

96. Who said anything about enforcing marital fidelity?

Agreements are great. It's sad that people who do agree to open marriages are held up to unfair scrutiny in political battles... but it's politics. No shortage of unfairness to go around, and it's really nothing to do with fidelity, it's just a convenient tool.

My comments about deceit and dishonesty were obviously intended to focus on the situations where there is no such agreement, as it seems was the case for Elizabeth Edwards.

[seabeyond]

94. see jd

i can be surprised, disagree adamently, sit in wonder with your posts..... but, i have learned with you, there is just something about you that makes me want to you. i totally disagree and do not even want to bother with it is not just messy sex problems, but rape... lol

but, you are fascinating to me in your posts. i see a moral compass so clearly, and that is important, but it is in an odd manner, lol. i cannot explain it well. it is just one of those things i imagine i will always disagree with you, yet still appreciate you.

thanks for such a long post clarifying your position better.

[loli phabay]

57. kinda lost me there

[HockeyMom]

78. More that they want to be like teenagers

If teenagers dress and act sexy, then many a young girl will want to be just like them. This is nothing new. Younger girls have always wanted to imitate their older sisters.

[seabeyond]

80. isnt this a duh.... lol. thanks for pointing this out. but, the teen girl is looking to be the

adult woman. so, in essence, .....

but, that still calls in the study with the doll and certain parental styles or childhood experiences effect the result of the choice of doll.

[redqueen]

83. I doubt many teens they see in person dress like that doll.

Teens in music videos, sure.