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Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:04 PM Aug 2012

Good friend with an issue:

Perhaps the good women of HOF can help me direct my friend.

Quick back story: My friend... divorced for over ten years no children, divorced because her husband was having an affair. Lived in another state, made a good life for herself, good job, good friends. Her old high school sweetheart found her on FB. He is also divorced no children. They rekindle the romance she moves back to Texas, moves in with him and marries within months. They are both from the same small town.

They seem happy. Buy a house, she found a good job. He tells her that he is a recovering addict for alcohol and coke. Been clean for years. Takes the 12 step thing seriously. Is a sponsor etc. She, because of his issue does not drink at all...not even socially. She has excepted his AA friends and understands his issue. She is very healthy anyway and so this is not an issue although she misses an occasional glass of wine.

Fast forward- Married for one year. She finds really nasty not run of the mill porn on his computer. Confronts him very upset. He makes her feel like she is crazy and that this is normal for a man. She starts therapy because she thinks she is crazy.

Not much later finds out that he has been doing coke for months and that the porn and the coke are interlinked. His excuse is that he is an addict. No taking any responsibility for himself. Very bad and and very disheartening because she gave up her GOOD job to help run his fledgling business he has started. ( Computer startup ) She's not working on her own and now is financially Dependant on him.

He has made her feel like she is crazy and she doesn't know what to do. I am inclined to tell her to leave but why should she? He fucked up, she didn't.

What advise would YOU give?



43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Good friend with an issue: (Original Post) Texasgal Aug 2012 OP
life is just too short. disrespect. it is that simple. seabeyond Aug 2012 #1
I will always listen to you Sea! Texasgal Aug 2012 #4
coke is a tough one. it is even tougher than alcohol as far as an hook, seabeyond Aug 2012 #6
No kids, thank goodness! Texasgal Aug 2012 #8
her first marriage regarded an affair and abandonment. seabeyond Aug 2012 #10
Yes.. I believe it is a deeper issue. Texasgal Aug 2012 #13
but seabeyond Aug 2012 #14
I agree that she needs to take Texasgal Aug 2012 #16
gotcha... seabeyond Aug 2012 #17
Her giving up her good job to help orpupilofnature57 Aug 2012 #2
I agree. I think she should leave. Texasgal Aug 2012 #3
Ask around town about a good divorce lawyer. SDjack Aug 2012 #5
She needs to find work then divorce him. Ilsa Aug 2012 #7
I agree. Texasgal Aug 2012 #9
the advice is the tough one. seabeyond Aug 2012 #11
Leave him ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #12
man, you do not know how much Texasgal Aug 2012 #15
She's terrified ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #20
Agreed! Helen Reddy Oct 2012 #41
You want a guy's view? Probably not, but... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #18
Thank you for your thoughts. Texasgal Aug 2012 #19
I'm not a counselor, but I might suggest that this guy... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #21
Or perhaps the drugs Texasgal Aug 2012 #22
Btw- Thank you. Texasgal Aug 2012 #23
Well I would be out of there. MadrasT Aug 2012 #24
DTMFA redqueen Aug 2012 #25
file for divorce Deep13 Aug 2012 #26
Alanon..... Little Star Aug 2012 #27
.... seabeyond Aug 2012 #28
I'm around Sea... Little Star Aug 2012 #29
ya, woman. i hear ya. seabeyond Aug 2012 #30
Sounds like you're a bit.... fadedrose Aug 2012 #35
Good advice MadrasT Aug 2012 #31
His addiction is not her problem... Deep13 Aug 2012 #32
She or he must leave and she should file for divorce ASAP Tumbulu Aug 2012 #33
why should she leave? TorchTheWitch Aug 2012 #34
my advice... Soylent Brice Aug 2012 #36
i was thinking about your friend the other day. how is she doing. nt seabeyond Oct 2012 #37
Thanks for kicking Sea! Texasgal Oct 2012 #38
Ugh. I don't know. seabeyond Oct 2012 #39
Yes, I agree Texasgal Oct 2012 #40
Addiction is so hard to deal with. redqueen Oct 2012 #43
No! Helen Reddy Oct 2012 #42
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
1. life is just too short. disrespect. it is that simple.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:13 PM
Aug 2012

if a person does not respect me, i do not want to be around them. i can not be any other way. i do not connect in a manner that i can justify to myself being around someone that does not respect me.

i am pragmatic.

i do not think i do emotion like most people.

it would be a no brainer to me, and it would have happened already. i cant live life that way. i need to not be around that crap. so i am not around that crap.

i am sorry for the friend.

ok, i am sure i am wrong on this one. i remember the last time you brought something here, and i was all in the confrontation, and i was the ONLY one. way off.

do not listen to me.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
4. I will always listen to you Sea!
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:22 PM
Aug 2012

We have different thoughts but your opinion is good to me. I will always look at what you say!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
6. coke is a tough one. it is even tougher than alcohol as far as an hook,
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
Aug 2012

lack of sleep, agitation and progression to violence. not to mention a financial drain.

and if there are kids in that home, there is no way in hell i would allow kids anywhere around anyone doing coke.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
8. No kids, thank goodness!
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:39 PM
Aug 2012

The way he was caught really set me off. He was at his office late at night, she decided that she would bring him a sam-which as it was late she felt bad. She went to his office and he had the deadbolt locked, she tried to open it with a key to no avail She knocked screaming to let her in. He did after cleaning up...she asked what he was doing and he admitted to watching porn on the office computer, she then saw a white smear under his nose. She demanded to know what was happening and he told her everything.

He told her that the porn and the drugs went together and that he would stop doing drugs, thus stopping the porn. From what she tells me this was not run of the mill porn, she said it was really graphic.

I am angry that he seems to take NO responsibility for himself, he started explaining the medical issues regarding coke.. Dopamine, brain issues whatever. He cannot admit that HE fucked up.

It's so shitty. I feel for her. Way hurt she is especially since her first marriage regarded an affair and abandonment.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
10. her first marriage regarded an affair and abandonment.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:46 PM
Aug 2012

i am hearing over and over how this is taking down marriages. the woman is suppose to be ok with it. it hurts. and she is told to let it go. find professional help. it is about her.

it isnt.

married, for a lifetime, we are responsible for each other. i have nothing in me that wants to hurt, or would allow me to hurt my husband. i expect the same.

if there is something i do that is hurting him, i need to know. and i need to stop. that is my job in this marriage.

this is not about your friend finding a way not to be hurt, because of his wants. it is so far beyond that.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
13. Yes.. I believe it is a deeper issue.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:53 PM
Aug 2012

What's sad is that he is control freak, very worried about what people think about him.

The first time she talked to me about him she was so worried that he would find out. He is so worried about his self worth. I told her that I would not judge, although I admit I am having a hard time not doing so.

I personally find him to be a dick and a narcissist. of course, I care for my friend and want her to make the right decisions on her own.

I am in such a quandary!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
14. but
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:58 PM
Aug 2012

Last edited Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:07 AM - Edit history (1)

then lets be honest here. both these men that she has chosen. there are tells. she isnt to blame for there behavior in anyway. but, eventually, in time, she needs to reflect on her choices. there were behaviors that should have made her think twice and not rush into marriage.

and you can look at it and none of it be judgment. that is the pragmatic. all you are doing is giving your opinion. then you leave it alone. she will make the decision. that is not your responsibility, nor are you capable. then over the months you listen. and be her friend. but, not an enabler.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
16. I agree that she needs to take
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:05 PM
Aug 2012

some sort of responsibility for whom she has chose.

She has some issues herself, her Mother died of cancer while she was young and her father was non-existent. He has been trying to become involved in her life IE: he staged this wedding in his backyard.

Yes, I agree that she has some trust and love issues. I do believe that this asshole has taken advantage of them though.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
17. gotcha...
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:11 PM
Aug 2012

this is all workin here. well, i am sorry for both people honestly.

i do not like seeing either hurt. but, you know the reality of the situation.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
2. Her giving up her good job to help
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:14 PM
Aug 2012

was her first mistake and how she became financially dependent on him , subscribing to his judgment of Her sanity was her second , His Narcissistic Fibrosis can't be cured with all the love and forgiveness on the planet ,tell her to bail.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
3. I agree. I think she should leave.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:21 PM
Aug 2012

I think she could financially but it concerns me that HE has put her in that position.

Personally I think HE should leave the home, but he is such a narcissist I don't think he will. UGH.

Horrible situation all around, thanks for your response.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
7. She needs to find work then divorce him.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:37 PM
Aug 2012

Or better, see if she has grounds for an annulment. I don't know what constitutes grounds for that, but she needs to move on before he destroys her life and her finances. The longer she stays, the worse it'll get. She can't save him. Only he can, and he'd rather make her feel bad than face up to his own shit.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
11. the advice is the tough one.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:48 PM
Aug 2012

where is she sittin in all this. and how long has she had to think about it.

ismnotwasm

(41,980 posts)
12. Leave him
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 09:50 PM
Aug 2012

Or kick him out. Cocaine is illegal, it fucks with the brain sometimes permanently. I'd call the cops. I know something about recovery and 12 step programs. The man from my perspective is full of shit, never had what's called recovery in the first place.

He won't get better
He won't stop
He'll drag her to hell

I like the divorce attorney idea. She put time effort and resources into this situation, if at all possible she deserves something from the life she's built with this asshole. If she feels she's been damaged somehow by addiction, she can try support groups AFTER she leaves. Tell her to get the hell out, or get him out ASAP. No reunions, no second chances. I've seen this kind of shit before and it rarely has a happy ending for the abused partner and make no mistake, this is abuse.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
15. man, you do not know how much
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:00 PM
Aug 2012

I really WANT to say this to her!

I feel almost strangled. I REALLY want to tell her to move on, and I think she does but I think she is afraid.

ismnotwasm

(41,980 posts)
20. She's terrified
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:40 PM
Aug 2012

I would be too, to uproot yourself to a happily ever after and find yourself with a known, liar, a criminal, probably a cheat and a thief-- she deserves better. This guy has got her thinking she's crazy--so classic I could puke. If she won't leave tell her to go to support groups of the type where other people have dealt with what she's dealing with. God, she must feel pretty alone right about now.

What I say is out of personal observation of many years regarding addiction. I don't say she'll never find the man she married, I'm saying he isn't there now, and all other considerations aside, if she has any concern for him still, she'll tell him to hit the road and stay gone until he gets his shit together. She may save a life. It might be hers.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
18. You want a guy's view? Probably not, but...
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:20 PM
Aug 2012

here it is anyway.

I'm all for trying to work it out, but the guy's a backslider and it will be hell to get him back on the right road. If at all possible.

I don't know what she means by graphic vs. normal porn, and I'd rather not know, but any guy in a fairly new relationship who locks himself in a room away from his wife to snort coke and watch porn has a problem.

A really big problem.

A REALLY, REALLY big problem.

Could she maybe be a teensy little part of the problem? Well, maybe, because relationships are complex, but it's still his REALLY, REALLY big problem.

Do, if he's really all that and worth the hassle of rehabilitation in every other way, find a trustworthy counselor and go for it, But, said trustworthy counselor should lay out the odds of working it out very clearly. He was clean and now he's back on coke-- this does not bode well for the future. If he doesn't have enough good points to risk the rehab, make plans to leave 'cause it ain't getting any better without major and continuous intervention.

It's gotta suck when you think OK everything's in place and we can head down that road and then the road just blows all to hell. Life really sucks sometimes, but you gotta move on.

(Just this guy's opinion.)

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
19. Thank you for your thoughts.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:37 PM
Aug 2012

It may be true that she is the issue. He keeps telling her that she is not and that it is the addiction though. I guess I am just confused as to why he had sobriety for years and then decided to break it Maybe it IS the marriage or maybe it's just him being selfish. I am not sure anyone will ever know.

As far as the porn, from what I get it was not your typical skin-a-max fare. It was more farm animals and other things which I would prefer not to go into right now. It was hard enough for her to tell me.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
21. I'm not a counselor, but I might suggest that this guy...
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:50 PM
Aug 2012

just doesn't fit into a relationship. Feels tied down or in some way suffocated. May be worrying that there's someone better out there...

So, it's not her, but it's any woman he's in a relationship with, but that's her for now. Still nothing she's done or at fault for. And not much she can do about it.

Farm animals? This guy is in really bad shape. We have our little secrets, but farm animals just don't cut it.

(I can imagine a lot of things, but I can't imagine a woman driving a guy to sheep and blow-- that's gotta come from some place deep down.)




Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
22. Or perhaps the drugs
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:03 PM
Aug 2012

is the culprit. ?? Farm animals...drugs? I dunno.

Whatever the case, I am sure that she may have a hand in some of this. Perhaps she is not telling me the whole story which could be entirely possible.

It's discerning to me however that she came to him and he acted as though he was rehabbed by AA and then used and tried to turn it around on her.

I feel disgusted by the whole debacle.

Coke is a fucked up drug.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
24. Well I would be out of there.
Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:39 PM
Aug 2012

I was married to a psychologically unwell recovering addict for 20 years.

Even when he wasn't using he was never "normal"... because he never really did the psychological work to address the issues that drove him to drugs and drink.

There are millions of other men in the world, and I only have one life. I would not spend that much time again trying to "make it work" with one specific one.

The bit about trying to make her think she's crazy is a big screaming red flag. People pull that shit on you and pretty soon you don't know what is real and what isn't. You can end up becoming crazy from that treatment. Ask me how I know.

On second thought, don't.

I feel bad for her but from what you've described (which is one side of the story secondhand, but it's what we have to work with), I just think she is in for a boatload of hurt if she stays.

What is the best case if she stays, and how likely is it the "best case" pans out?

(Only she can answer that.)

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
25. DTMFA
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:01 AM
Aug 2012

Dump The MF Already.

Sorry but no, just no. Drugs are bad enough, but making HER feel bad about HIS sick shit? Oh hell no.

I'd have packed up and been gone that night. I just don't have any patience at all for that. I put up with bullshit twice in my life. Once cause I was young and naive, and once 'for the kids'. Guess how it worked out both times.

She's gonna do what she's gonna do, but that's my .02. Life's too damn short to waste it putting up with selfish a-holes.

Ugh.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
26. file for divorce
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:45 AM
Aug 2012

I am not going to make an argument about porn generally and I don't know how relevant it is here if it is confined to his computer and she would otherwise have no occasion to see it. The OP said it was related to the drugs. If he is selling porn to finance the drugs, then that is certainly a problem. The drugs are obviously a bad sign and it will only get worse as he pours more and more resources into it. Frankly, given my own experience, my inclination is never to trust an addict. He will do anything to finance his habit. And frankly, if he is relying on nothing but AA, that really means he has not had any effective treatment.

In any event, she is only crazy if she continues to tolerate the situation because there is no where to go but down. Cocaine is highly addictive and he will not be able to stop, assuming he even wants to do so, without clinical intervention. One way to get him out of the house is notify the police of where and when he uses cocaine and, if she knows, where he gets it. It is essential that she does not do anything to enable that habit least she be guilty of complicity.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
27. Alanon.....
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:50 AM
Aug 2012

She needs to go to alanon where she can learn the concepts of co-dependency and enabling. She may not realize the role she is playing in his addiction.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
28. ....
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:55 AM
Aug 2012

i have missed you. yesterday i really really wanted to send you a pm. good to see you. hoping all is well.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
29. I'm around Sea...
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:06 PM
Aug 2012

I've been reading DU every day, just not much to say. Today when I read this OP I felt that I had something possibly worth saying. Been there done that in my first marriage.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
35. Sounds like you're a bit....
Sun Aug 26, 2012, 10:14 PM
Aug 2012

depressed. Can't cheer you up, cause I y'am too.

Maybe the draught and promise of worse things to come because of it has something to do with it. My trouble is that I never expected to live this long (74) and have no role model in the family except for a couple old senile men...

And the election coming up.... republicans are much crazier than I gave them credit for. I always just thought they were mean.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
31. Good advice
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:18 PM
Aug 2012

Whether or not she stays, this is super good advice. I forgot about AlAnon.

Not only would she learn about codependency, she'd meet other folks who are dealing with similar situations. Just knowing you aren't alone can be a godsend.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
32. His addiction is not her problem...
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:20 PM
Aug 2012

...and she should not buy into the idea that it is. She does not need a "God" to restore her sanity because 1. she is not insane, and 2. no god has ever actually done that. She should keep her sanity, and cut the lying deadweight from her life. Seriously, did he mention this addiction before they were married? If he was dishonest enough to keep something like that to himself, the relationship was doomed before it started.

Tumbulu

(6,278 posts)
33. She or he must leave and she should file for divorce ASAP
Tue Aug 21, 2012, 02:06 AM
Aug 2012

Move quickly, get out financially immediately or she will find herself paying his debt and back taxes for years. It will only get way worse really fast.

Thank goodness there are no children involved! But the child inside your friend must be hurting terribly.

I am glad that you are there for her.








TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
34. why should she leave?
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:08 PM
Aug 2012

I would think the obvious answer is he's an asshole. Why stay with an asshole? She's already wasted enough time on this shithead and shouldn't waste a second more of it. The longer she stays with him the more miserable she'll become and the harder it will be to leave. It's the very fact that he's the one that fucked up that means she is the one that needs to leave. He's HAPPY with her being controlled by him and destroying her self-esteem and WANTS her to stay for all the good things she does for him while he gets to be as much of an asshole as he likes. Why in the world would HE want to be the one to leave when he's the one that's happy with arrangement?

In hindsight, never make life changing decisions in a very short span of time. She didn't give herself anywhere near enough time to find out the nuts and bolts of this guy and gave far too much of herself far too fast. She didn't just give up her job, she gave up her home and moved to another state to be with him, went to work for him instead of keeping her own job making her entirely dependent on him for everything including her sense of self-worth. I don't understand why people do this, and it does seem to be mostly women that do. Just because you're happy in a new relationship there's never any reason to believe that everything is all roses without thorns and you'll live happily ever after. It doesn't work that way. Also, I steer WAY clear of anyone that claims they're clean of drug or alcohol problems... hard drugs and alcohol are notoriously hard to REALLY kick, and the average problem user has to go through several periods of getting and staying clean (and the odds aren't very good that they REALLY do).

Life is short. She shouldn't be wasting a moment more of it with this jackass and needs to get busy rebuilding her life again. She's done it before, she can do it again, and the longer she waits the harder it will be for her. Kick that asswipe to the curb and don't look back.


Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
38. Thanks for kicking Sea!
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:30 PM
Oct 2012

Well, she has decided to stay with him on a agreement that he goes to rehab. Ofcourse, rehab hasn't happened yet due to "their" work schedule.

She did call an outpatient clinic and he agreed and she says that he will go when their work load becomes more manageable. She knows this is a shot in the dark and I kind of know it is too... I want to be positive towards her and her marriage because she wants this to work and I want her to be happy too.

More to come in a few weeks. I hope this works for them both. I just feel awful for her predicament. I have wondered what I would do... and honestly?" I might have found myself feeling the same way she does. Wanting to save the marriage and working things out for the better. Ugh. I don't know.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
39. Ugh. I don't know.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:44 PM
Oct 2012

that is the way it is. i hear ya. thanks for the update.

it is a tough one.

the best to her.

we do, until we cant do anymore.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
40. Yes, I agree
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 09:49 PM
Oct 2012

she is really in a predicament. I want to advise her, but at the same time I must tread lightly.

It's such a bummer considering that he was sober when they hooked back up, it's such a huge part of their relationship and his life in general. I cannot figure out if this is a fuck up or a long going issue that may never be resolved. Not just the drugs... just his whole attitude towards her and his life.

It's a toughie.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
43. Addiction is so hard to deal with.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 11:15 AM
Oct 2012

I wish both of them all the luck in the world. And all the love, it definitely helps.

 

Helen Reddy

(998 posts)
42. No!
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 09:17 AM
Oct 2012

This awful situation is not even her fault not one bit.

She sounds quite capable of being financially independent, perhaps her previous company would consider hiring her back. Thank goodness no children are involved, she would then feel tethered to him forever.

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