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Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:38 PM

Breaking Bernie: 21st Century Rat-Fucking

Breaking Bernie: 21st Century Rat-Fucking

Deep Throat: What's the topic for tonight?
Bob Woodward: Rat-fucking.
Deep Throat: [lights a cigarette] In my day it was called double-cross. In simple context, it means infiltration of the Democrats.



?w=885&h=488


What a difference a few months makes. When I wrote about the state of the presidential race previously, I did not anticipate two events. First, I did not foresee the Republican Party primary race being hijacked by a reality TV star. Lord knows how long Donald Trump will keep sucking up all the oxygen from the rest of the personality-challenged GOP field, but with a personal bankroll nearly eleven figures large (insert your own Spinal Tap joke), the answer appears to be: as long as he goddamn pleases, so suck it, losers! Second, it appears that I was wrong when I placed Senator Bernie Sanders "in the same camp as Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee and anyone else who wants to throw their hat in the ring: next in line in case Hillary Clinton is photographed abusing an endangered species or in bed with anyone other than Bill."

Sanders clearly is not in the same camp; clearly the man has more campaign savvy than the grassroots-left favorite single-digit polling Kucinich, which I thought he was. Though it is still very, very early, he is currently polling ahead of Clinton 44-37 in the pivotal early voting primary state of New Hampshire. He regularly draws crowds in the tens of thousands, whereas the rest of the candidates struggle to regularly draw crowds in the thousands, with the exception of The Donald, who still exaggerates the size of his crowds to try to keep up with Bernie. Momentum is clearly on Senator Sanders' side. When Bernie speaks, his popularity grows.

There's no such thing as a perfect candidate (philosophically, I think perfect is an imperfect concept), especially in the corrupt unsustainable system we're currently saddled with. Bernie's not about to address what truly ails civilization by changing the way money works so that it's no longer predicated on the debt machine of fiat currency, fractional reserves and compound interest and instead is representative of energy, both the human energy that we produce through our labor and the planet's energy that we utilize. But Bernie has multiple planks in his platform that does address changing the way money is distributed in a significant manner. Reinstating Glass-Steagall, breaking up banks that are "too big to fail," taxing Wall Street speculation, ending offshore tax havens and subsidies to Big Business, and fixing the tax code to alleviate systemic inequalities would be a monumental shake-up of the status quo, perhaps the most serious threat since Robert F. Kennedy's run in 1968.





It is for this reason that I don't believe the system will allow him to win. Not just because of what he stands for, other people have run for the White House on a similar platform, but because of how many people he is reaching. Rather than wait for Sanders to accrue a significant number of delegates so that he has bargaining power at the Democratic Convention in July at Philadelphia, I believe that powerful interests that stand the most to lose from a Sanders administration will work early to try to sabotage his campaign, which on a personal level would sadly make my vote for him in the California primary on June 7 a moot point. For those who find the possibility of such a 'conspiracy' far-fetched, I would point you to the quote at the top of the page and remind you that the movie All the President's Men was based on a true story.


read the rest at the link...

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2015/08/breaking-bernie-21st-century-rat-fucking.html

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Reply Breaking Bernie: 21st Century Rat-Fucking (Original post)
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 OP
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #1
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #5
merrily Aug 2015 #52
navarth Aug 2015 #63
merrily Aug 2015 #73
navarth Aug 2015 #74
merrily Aug 2015 #75
navarth Aug 2015 #78
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #80
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #72
merrily Aug 2015 #76
Demeter Aug 2015 #2
Playinghardball Aug 2015 #3
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #11
starroute Aug 2015 #4
starroute Aug 2015 #9
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #25
starroute Aug 2015 #32
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #39
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #43
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #45
starroute Aug 2015 #44
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #46
merrily Aug 2015 #53
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #68
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #13
starroute Aug 2015 #17
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #18
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #26
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #31
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #42
merrily Aug 2015 #54
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #13
PADemD Aug 2015 #15
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #19
hootinholler Aug 2015 #24
PADemD Aug 2015 #30
hootinholler Aug 2015 #33
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #49
dreamnightwind Aug 2015 #51
merrily Aug 2015 #55
PADemD Aug 2015 #57
merrily Aug 2015 #58
zeemike Aug 2015 #6
jalan48 Aug 2015 #7
annabanana Aug 2015 #8
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #23
jalan48 Aug 2015 #40
navarth Aug 2015 #64
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #79
jalan48 Aug 2015 #81
merrily Aug 2015 #83
merrily Aug 2015 #82
saidsimplesimon Aug 2015 #10
cantbeserious Aug 2015 #12
dougolat Aug 2015 #16
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #20
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #48
hootinholler Aug 2015 #21
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #22
hootinholler Aug 2015 #28
Ilsa Aug 2015 #27
hootinholler Aug 2015 #29
grasswire Aug 2015 #36
snagglepuss Aug 2015 #34
ruffburr Aug 2015 #35
grasswire Aug 2015 #37
leveymg Aug 2015 #38
robertpaulsen Aug 2015 #69
leveymg Aug 2015 #70
SandersDem Aug 2015 #41
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #47
malokvale77 Aug 2015 #50
sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #66
merrily Aug 2015 #56
nashville_brook Aug 2015 #71
blackspade Aug 2015 #59
DhhD Aug 2015 #60
DhhD Aug 2015 #61
WillyT Aug 2015 #62
N_E_1 for Tennis Aug 2015 #65
drm604 Aug 2015 #67
fredamae Aug 2015 #77
merrily Aug 2015 #84
Enthusiast Aug 2015 #85

Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 01:11 PM

1. Excellent article. I definitely agree that every effort will be made to stop him from winning, he is

the most obvious threat to those whose interests are NOT about this country, but about increasing their personal power and wealth.

The more successful he becomes, especially in starting a movement that as he says, IS the only way to overcome the power they have accrued over the decades the more the smear campaigners will step up their efforts to discredit him.

See how they feared OWS, so much so they used military tactics to try to quash them. They were the first sign that the people DID know more about the corrupt, rigged system they created for themselves, than they had previously thought.

Bernie was an early supporter of that movement and they are now volunteering for his campaign.

So yes, every smear they can conjure up, which is harder with Bernie due to his long record on the issues, they will as we've seen already.

Btw, the Donald has been known to 'Rent a Crowd' so I wouldn't be too certain that his crowds are actual supporters.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:05 PM

5. Sen Sanders is taking a huge risk to himself and his family. He acknowledged that risk

 

before he chose to run. We must make it worth the risk for him. We must do what we can to have his back.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:21 AM

52. Used on OWS were the same tactics McArthur and Eisenhower used on the Bonus Army

demonstrators.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

As an aside" To show how untrustworthy PBS has become, a woman's voice said in the background that, while Hoover had given TWO GENERALS orders to clear away the Bonus Army, he never intended for them to be as tough on the demonstrators as they were. Absolutely no support for this statement attempting to exonerate Hoover. He didn't exactly call out the boy scouts or the girl scouts to clear the area, did he?

Donald exaggerates his numbers, say the journalists covering him. Also, he's been giving free lunches and before going out to Iowa, announced he would be giving helicopter rides to the kids.

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Response to merrily (Reply #52)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 11:02 AM

63. Eisenhower was part of that??

I did not know that. Disappointing. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

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Response to navarth (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:12 PM

73. Yes, but maybe I was mistaken about his having been a General at that time.

Wikipedia says he was a junior aide to McArthur at that time.

I see Eisenhower darker and lazier than other Democrats today see him.

U.S. Army intervention

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered[citation needed] the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"
Shacks that members of the Bonus Army erected on the Anacostia Flats burning after the confrontation with the military.

After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and tear gas (adamsite, an arsenical vomiting agent) entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp, and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. MacArthur chose to ignore the president and ordered a new attack, claiming that the Bonus March was an attempt to overthrow the U.S. government. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[12] A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."[16]

During the military operation, Major Dwight D. Eisenhower, later the 34th president of the United States, served as one of MacArthur's junior aides.[17] Believing it wrong for the Army's highest-ranking officer to lead an action against fellow American war veterans, he strongly advised MacArthur against taking any public role: "I told that dumb son-of-a-bitch not to go down there," he said later. "I told him it was no place for the Chief of Staff."[18] Despite his misgivings, Eisenhower later wrote the Army's official incident report which endorsed MacArthur's conduct.[19]



http://www.democraticunderground.com/

On the bright side, wiki says the Bonus Army was the reason Hoover did not get re-elected. However, I suspect the economy may also have had something to do with it.

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Response to merrily (Reply #73)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 06:29 PM

74. ...and Gen. Smedley Butler would have none of it.

One of the 2 big reasons he is in my Pantheon of Heros.

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Response to navarth (Reply #74)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 06:52 AM

75. I'll have to read up on Smed.

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Response to merrily (Reply #75)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:29 AM

78. He blew the whistle on the attempted fascist takeover of FDR's admin

orchestrated by the BFEE patriarch Prescott Bu$h, among others. Treasonous bastards all. It's available, you won't have any trouble finding it. IIRC it is referred to as 'the September plot'.

General Smedley Butler also wrote the book 'War Is A Racket'. One of my personal heroes.

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Response to navarth (Reply #78)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:26 PM

80. War is a Racket is a fantastic expose!

He really did an amazing job detailing how corporations manipulated governments into war. Amazing that it was written in the 30s; the corruption has only gotten worse since.

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Response to merrily (Reply #52)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 04:41 PM

72. An important forgotten part of our history. Patton did a lot of dirty work in that raid.

This was absolutely shameful:


A month later, on July 28, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the evacuation of the veterans from all government property, Entrusted with the job, the Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two marchers killed. Learning of the shooting at lunch, President Hoover ordered the army to clear out the veterans.


Troops prepare to evacuate the
Bonus Army
July 28, 1932

Infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks were dispatched with Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur in command. Major Dwight D. Eisenhower served as his liaison with Washington police and Major George Patton led the cavalry.

By 4:45 P.M. the troops were massed on Pennsylvania Ave. below the Capitol. Thousands of Civil Service employees spilled out of work and lined the streets to watch. The veterans, assuming the military display was in their honor, cheered. Suddenly Patton's troopers turned and charged. "Shame, Shame" the spectators cried. Soldiers with fixed bayonets followed, hurling tear gas into the crowd.

By nightfall the BEF had retreated across the Anacostia River where Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop. Ignoring the command, the general led his infantry to the main camp. By early morning the 10,000 inhabitants were routed and the camp in flames. Two babies died and nearby hospitals overwhelmed with casualties. Eisenhower later wrote, "the whole scene was pitiful. The veterans were ragged, ill-fed, and felt themselves badly abused. To suddenly see the whole encampment going up in flames just added to the pity."

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snprelief4.htm

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 07:40 AM

76. Those veterans had been willing to die for McArthur a few years earlier. What a fuck he must have

been. even if Hoover had not ordered him to stop.

Did Hoover actually order him to stop, though? Did McArthur really disobey his Commander in Chief on a civilian matter? Dunno.

Years later, Truman relieved McArthur of his command for not respecting the authority of the President, so it's possible. But there have been RW revisionist efforts to portray Hoover as his wife as uber sympathetic during the Depression, helping this one and that one out with their own money. But millions were suffering and Hoover supposedly put his Republican principles--and maybe his own hopes for re-election?-- above the lives of Americans. So, I don't know where the truth lies in this. As far as I am concerned, they were both ugly. Patton, too.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:17 PM

2. This better not be a rerun of Election 2000

 

or there will be mass emigration/suicide/rioting.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:32 PM

3. Your post showed up as a tweet in #feelthebern twitter...

 

tellthetruth ‏@truthtotweet · 10m10 minutes ago
The "system" will fight to prevent the presidency of @BernieSanders.WE the people will fight that system.#FeelTheBern http://www.democraticunderground.com/12779782


https://twitter.com/hashtag/feelthebern



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Response to Playinghardball (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:28 PM

11. That's because it was tweeted from here. I see it has been tweeted five times so far

Which is why people should use the tweet, google and FB buttons as it gets the information out to a bigger audience.

It's a great article, and deserves a wider audience imo, which is why I tweeted it.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:00 PM

4. This is why people were suspicious of the Seattle BLM protesters

It seems pretty clear now that they were sincere. But they did point up a weak spot in Bernie's appeal that genuine ratfuckers could exploit. I expect future efforts will inflate the most disruptive tactics of BLM and then either tie Bernie to them or force him to denounce them and lose black support.

There's also the problem, as the Occupy people found out, that becoming wary of infiltrators in your midst creates a paranoid mindset that makes it difficult to take effective action or trust your own allies.

I'll read the rest of Robert Paulson's lengthy blog post and see if he has any useful suggestions for how to counter these tactics. But he's definitely right that they're going to be out there.

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Response to starroute (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:22 PM

9. Outside Agitators 206 is an offshoot of something called Occupy Hip Hop

The same person seems to be central to both of them. Occupy Hip Hop was part of Occupy Seattle from a very early point -- I found references going back to October 2011 -- and the use of "206" to refer to Seattle seems most common in a hip hop context.

Also, it seems as though what happened with the BLM protesters in Seattle had more to do with local Seattle issues -- gentrification and the general indifference of white liberals to black issues in an area with more Asians and Native Americans than blacks -- than with Bernie himself.

So at this point, the possibility of outside intervention in that event strikes me as very low.

On the other hand, something I'm seriously concerned about is the use of tactics like those revealed in the Anonymous hack of HBGary a few years back. Surveillance, data-mining, the ability for a single individual to control multiple false online personas. That sort of thing, which goes way beyond either Cointelpro or the simple rat-fucking of Karl Rove and pals.

See, for example, http://wiki.echelon2.org/wiki/Team_Themis

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Response to starroute (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:14 PM

25. Thanks for posting this info here, starroute.

I still haven't completely made up my own mind as I still feel a lot of what we should know has been hidden. But I expressed what I feel may be the most likely possibility in this part of my blog post:

"The larger question then is are these the genuine sentiments of quasi-anarchists or the underhanded machinations of agent provocateurs? Actually, it could be a combination of both: genuinely committed activists being manipulated by operatives with a vastly different agenda. The answer may lie in the quest that Deep Throat gave to Bob Woodward in All the President's Men: follow the money. Are there any powerful interests that stand to lose billions during a Sanders administration connected with Outside Agitators 206?"

Something about this group strikes me as being something different than what happened at Netroots Nation. Whether it's Merck, Amazon, or some other entity behind the scenes we haven't learned of yet, I am concerned about manipulation by some group willing to give these activists access and compensation to further more Bow Down Bernie Bullshit. And yes, I do believe there's some genuinely committed activists in that group. But if some are going to double down by smearing Symone Sanders (I haven't read what sabrina1 is referring to, but I plan on doing so to get the names of those who did) then I most certainly question whose interests they're really serving.

And yes, this is only the beginning. I believe we'll see more extreme tactics in the future.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:58 PM

32. I found the thread where I posted about this earlier

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027062645#post9

The name associated with both Outside Agitators 206 and Hip Hop Occupies is that of Dan Bash. I wasn't able to find out anything about him except for his connection with those two groups -- maybe you can do better. He comes up in online address listings, so it's not a pseudonym, but he doesn't have much of an online presence.

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Response to starroute (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 09:51 PM

39. I found a couple links that may or may not be the same person.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:44 PM

43. No effin' way. Homeland Security?!

Alright, I gotta do more research on who exactly the Daniel Bash associated with Outside Agitators is. Because it just can't be that guy. They just can't be that blatant.

Then again, I've seen weirder shit.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:52 PM

45. It just can't be...

but I have seen so much shit from our government that I think it could just be.

Rat-fucking by the government instead of the opposing party.

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Response to starroute (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:49 PM

44. This seems to be Dan Bash

Pretty definitely not a Homeland Security officer.

http://www.peekyou.com/dan_bash/17749064

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Response to starroute (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:05 PM

46. How does that disclaim a link?

Homeland Security is in every state.

Isn't their purpose to infiltrate any group that might be a threat to the authority of the US government?

It has been shown here on DU many times.

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Response to malokvale77 (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:45 AM

53. If Senator Sanders and people of Seattle interested in hearing speakers about OASDI are a threat,

who the fuck isn't a threat?

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Response to starroute (Reply #44)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:50 PM

68. Thanks for the find, starroute.

I think that's the most likely candidate for the Seattle activist Dan Bash, as opposed to the Executive Director Dan Bash in Lincoln Nebraska, or the Cooper Hospital supervisor Dan Bash in Philadelphia, or the Homeland Security agent Dan Bash in Phoenix, Arizona, or the Sanitarian Dan Bash in Bowling Green, Ohio.

Of course, if anyone can find a pic of Phoenix Dan Bash, that would be great.

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Response to starroute (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:43 PM

13. Were they sincere? I saw them mocking Symone Sanders on a blog post and that doesn't seem

to me something sincere people would do. And when are they going to go after Republicans? It appears they are Republicans themselves so one would think they would be trying to shame that party into admitting that their party needs to come into this century when it comes to Civil Rights.

And Hillary, who has an abysmal record on this issue, supporting legislation that has been so harmful to AAs, 'tough on crime' and 'welfare reform' eg.

Seems odd to many people that the ONLY candidate with a lifelong record on this issue, who was often in the minority when he opposed legislation Hillary supported, stating why, was THEIR only target.

Very odd and more and more people are simply moving beyond them and focusing on those whose sincerity is not in question.

I prefer those who are working to get as many Americans on board as possible to fight these injustices, see Ferguson, because without huge support from the entire country, or as much as possible, nothing is going to change, and alienating people sure isn't going to accomplish anything.

This issue is a societal issue. It isn't a political football and I am more than suspicious of the sincerity of those who show up with all this 'concern' during election cycles but were nowhere to be found until then.

Sanders as many AAs are now finding out, 'why did they go after this dude, he's been fighting for our rights for decades' and similar comments are now the norm all over Social Media.

So they did help to get Bernie's name and record out to the AA community of which only 33%, according to polls, even knew who he was.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 04:28 PM

17. I have very mixed feelings about this

I can see that young black people in particular are much like white Millennials, only more so. They have no faith in the political establishment. They see many of the older civil rights leaders as sell-outs. They have no faith in people who call themselves liberals but only serve their own interests. They're angry and alienated and ready to lash out.

But it's also true that what those young women in Seattle did could potentially play into the hands of the corporatists of both parties. This time, Bernie managed to turn it around to his advantage. But if it keeps happening, and if it happens in ways that seem more forced and less rooted in local issues, there will be reason to believe it's manufactured.

So I'm waiting to see what comes next.

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Response to starroute (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 05:41 PM

18. I double posted that comment, sorry about that. I totally understand the lack of faith

in a political solution period. And to be honest, I don't think politics WILL solve or ever does solve, huge issues like this. Politicians from both parties, not just Repubs who have zero interest in the issue other than to scapegoat, see the Welfare Reform bill eg, AAs, but what have Dems done either? As I pointed out, the Clintons supported some of the worst legislation wrt to minorities.

Gays eg, had to drag the politicians along after they scored victories and changed minds themselves. Politicians seem to follow rather than lead on this issues.

So I totally agree with movements like Black Lives Matter, OWS and Act UP because Politicians are not engaged in anything they are not pushed to engage in.

UNLESS voters get smarter about WHO they vote for. Eg, if we had a few hundred Bernies in Congress, the Right Wing Welfare Reform Bill would never have passed.

Neither would legislation that put more AAs in jail than any other group of Americans and deprived children of their parents, destroying families etc. Instead of empowering minorities by spending money on education and providing jobs etc, over the past few decades all Politicians have done is to make matters even worse.

I am a huge supporter of Social Movements, such as Black Lives Matter because without them, there is going to no changing the corrupt, rigged system politicians are on board with for the most part.

And the bigger the movement the better. Which is why these kinds of tactics worry me, they can turn a lot of people away from what is needed most.

And that is a growing Social Justice Movement that becomes so powerful, including as many Americans as possible, that politicians as they usually do, will have to respond not with rhetoric and symbolism, but with real CHANGE, using that same system to make it work for the people.

The passage of the Civil Rights Bill happened only after the people forced it to happen. Politicians didn't lead the way, they followed the people, and yes, you do need politicians in power who are willing to listen, or who, like Bernie have a passionate interest in ensuring Civil Rights for all Americans, especially those who are the most oppressed.

I could see Bernie being the LBJ of this Civil Rights era, working with the movement, and eventually ending some of the policies, Private Prisons eg, that contribute to that oppression.

It's time, way past time. And if these protests were to help towards doing that, I would be all for them. But was that the goal, and that is a question that won't go away, so imo, it's best to just keep moving forward with those we know are sincere and help this movement to grow and help Bernie win because we know he will keep his word, not so sure about anyone else.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:17 PM

26. Hey sabrina, do you have a link to that blog post?

I really hope whoever put down Symone Sanders had the guts to attach their name. There may be some good activists in Outside Agitators 206, but the bad ones are toxic.

BTW, thanks for the tweets! I appreciate it!

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:55 PM

31. Not sure if I can find it again, but I will look and post if I do.

It was a long the lines of them discussing Bernie, very snidely, and 'making predictions' as to how things would go.

One of them said something like 'OR maybe he will hire Symone Sanders, oh look, yes he did' but that's from memory, it was a very snide, mocking post which said to me, this isn't about a movement, it's about something else.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:42 PM

42. Please...

Look at starroute post #32 and this link

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-bash/6a/321/18

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:50 AM

54. On Democracy Now, too--understand the outrage, the tactics, everything but the target.

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Response to starroute (Reply #4)


Response to starroute (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:52 PM

15. On the subject of disruption

From an interview with the late Julian Bond:

People in politics may often, if not usually, not be what they appear to be. Often, things are best explained by examining the effects of their activities according to the result, according to the rule of cui bono. Seldom is it possible to 'follow the money', because it's important to the people with the money that it not be followed, but the rule of cui bono ('who benefits' or 'what is the effect') still holds. If a meeting is disrupted, it often means that there was money involved and the disruption was intended for just that purpose - to disrupt.

I'm not saying that the people disrupting the recent Net Roots event in Phoenix were not sincere. I'm saying that, most probably, low-level political professionals were involved in organizing the disruption ... for the sole purpose of disrupting Bernie Sanders' appearance.

Do you think that all of those $billions go into buying media time? For sure, $millions go into hiring low-level political professionals to do things like make phone calls and assure that people will show up and be encouraged to disrupt. It happened in Portland, Oregon, earlier this year when a crowd of BLM protesters managed to shut down the town hall meeting where anti-TPP activists planned to confront Senator Wyden on his support for Fast Track. Very possibly, if not probably, it happened in Phoenix at the recent Net Roots conference.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404428/-Julian-Bond-Gay-rights-are-civil-rights

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Response to PADemD (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 05:45 PM

19. Qui Bono? I am sure that the pro job killing, TPP Corps were very happy to see that disruption.

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Response to PADemD (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 06:50 PM

24. Were they the same people?

The same ones at the SS rally?

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Response to PADemD (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:17 PM

33. Thanks!

I didn't recognize anyone from the SS event amongst those protesters.

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Response to PADemD (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:27 PM

49. I didn't know that about the Wyden town hall meeting.

Makes sense though. I mean, there are billions in profits at stake with TPP, and if we look under the rock to see the maggots it's always old liver spotted white male hands grasping for more profits.

We need to re-think 'free' trade, and make sure we institute 'fair' trade that promotes social and economic justice world wide. I mean, we have the workers without whom profit is impossible, and we have the environment that is being degraded because hey, it's an externality. And then we have the C class. The oligarchs. They pay lip service to 'increasing value for shareholders' but in reality they are lining their own pockets.

If we are going to have social and economic justice, then profits must be cut to allow for it. And the oligarchs aren't going to concede a penny without being forced by a political revolution.

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Response to PADemD (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:53 AM

51. Wow, thanks for that post - eom

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Response to PADemD (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:51 AM

55. Was he implying that the BLM protestors were pro-TPP?

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Response to merrily (Reply #55)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:05 AM

57. That's not the impression I got.

Did you read the whole article from the link?

He was talking about his past experience, how to recognize disrupters, and how disrupters compare to actual protesters.

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Response to PADemD (Reply #57)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:40 AM

58. I got what he was talking about in general. But BLM shut down an event at which anti-TPP people

were scheduled to demonstrate before the anti-TPP people had a chance to demonstrate.

You can read that in more than one way.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:11 PM

6. Which is precisely why we need a political revolution.

Democracy must be restored to the Democratic party...no more powerful people controlling things.
If they like that sort of thing let them join the GOP where they will fit right in.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:12 PM

7. I agree about the comparison to Robert Kennedy.

I saw Kennedy just a few months before he was killed. He was passionate about his beliefs and the people loved him. He would have been President had he lived. A boring, status quo Humphrey barely lost to Nixon in 68.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:16 PM

8. yep . . . . .n/t

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 06:49 PM

23. That's good to hear.

I was born in 1973, so my perspective is coming from what I've read in history. I'm a huge fan of Arthur Schlesinger's biography of RFK and it's really remarkable to read about the transformation he underwent between the time of his brother's death up to his campaign for the presidency in 68. At that point, it seemed like he was ideologically in the same place that Sanders is now. But they also have one other thing in common: a passion and commitment that seems to be contagious. It's really been amazing how in the last few months both the message and the messenger seem to be catching fire. Watching clips of RFK in 68, it seemed like that was happening to him. Thanks for your first-hand account as further confirmation of the truth.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 09:58 PM

40. The late 60's were a crazy time.

Protesters were shutting down Universities, it happened at my school, demanding the Vietnam War be stopped. The rednecks and the police (for lack of a better term) were often violent in retaliation, waving their flags and kicking hippies asses when they could. The Black Panthers were also active at that time. Until Kennedy, Gene McCarthy was the only candidate running on an anti-war platform. When Kennedy jumped in it seemed like it was going to happen. He was very charismatic and appealing. MLK was killed in April of 68 I believe and Kennedy in June. I've always thought the powers behind the scenes had something to do with it, they were not going to let the country change that radically. It's sad really, because we got Nixon and the chance we had was gone.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #40)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 11:20 AM

64. +1 remember all of that well, sadly.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 04:23 PM

79. Have you read The Assassinations by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease?

It's a collection of a number of powerful essays from Probe Magazine, which was published while the ARRB (Assassination Records Review Board) was reviewing documents released from the JFK assassination during the 90s. The book in its totality does a great job showing how not only the JFK assassination, but also that of MLK, RFK and Malcolm X all had behind the scenes manipulation by a number of powerful entities, particularly the CIA.

I believe DiEugenio has posted on DU previously.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #79)

Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:24 PM

81. I haven't but I will check it out.

Kennedy and King are especially troubling because of Kennedy's long support of the United Farm Workers and King's expansion of his civil rights movement to encompass all poor people as well. I'm sure they would have joined forces and that possibility was too much for the power people who stood to lose if that happened.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:57 AM

83. IMO, "We don't want to die killing people who did nothing to us" was eminently sane.

The reaction of this country to its loyal left has always been one of its insanities.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:49 AM

82. "He would have been President had he lived." Exactly.

But, just like his brother (and Martin Luther King, Jr.), he was shot by a lone gunman who was unstable. What are the odds?

Ted would have been President if he had won the Democratic primary.

Maybe John Jr. would have been President if he hadn't died in a plane crash, but, by then the glow of the Kennedys was not as bright.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:24 PM

10. The DNC and DLC are the bane(League of Shadows)

"It is for this reason that I don't believe the system will allow him to win.
Deep Throat: In my day it was called double-cross. In simple context, it means infiltration of the Democrats."

We can change the future. It's up to each and everyone of US.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 03:29 PM

12. Thank You For Sharing

eom

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 04:14 PM

16. Actually, if the Bernie groundswell proves too big to avoid...

...in spite of some Rovian sabotage and Koch-fiend interference and the owned media's distractions and distortions, the Profiteer Plutarchs may just say:
"Fine, you idealists think you can fix things by doing what should have been done decades ago? Ha! Go ahead and try. We've already LOOTED your industry and prosperity, and leave you with crumbling infrastructure, ecological problems galore, and looming blowback for recent military misadventures, suckers!"

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Response to dougolat (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 05:49 PM

20. And that is why they need to be prosecuted, as Bernie advocated for, for their corruption

as was done in Iceland eg, and their, or I mean OUR money confiscated after they are convicted. Same thing with War Criminals who lied us into those wars. Their blood money too should be returned to the people, they won't need it if they are in jail.

But that didn't happen, they were allowed to get away with their deceptions and lies and crimes and with the people's resources.

It may be too late to go after them, but it's not too late to make them pay it back in taxes eg.

And to make sure they never get into positions of power where they can do it all again.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:20 PM

48. Precisely...

and their evil spawn should not be able to inherit the stolen wealth.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 06:17 PM

21. I've missed your voice around here

Hope to hear more from you in the future, I'm not good at making blog rounds.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 06:43 PM

22. Thanks hootinholler!

This group seems like a great place. I'll try to participate more. Good to see you!

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:25 PM

28. DAYUM Dude Everyone needs to read the whole thing.

I just got the time to read the whole piece.

My favorite lines:
It's just as important to wake Americans up to the reality that black Americans are being killed by police at nearly the same rate as Jim Crow era lynchings as it is to wake Americans up to the reality that 1% of the American population owns 48% of the wealth.


That's just it! Nail meet Hammer and 50 other cliche'd utterances.

Thanks for a cogent reminder of what to expect. I'd love to hear any ideas you have about the forms those attacks on Bernie might have. Forewarned is forearmed, eh?

Oh, BTW I can't allow myself to think about your last paragraph, I would go mental.

Come join us in the Bernie group as well.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:21 PM

27. Someone on DU recently suggested that SBS needs a small private plane

Loaned to him to get him to his campaign functions. It gave me the chills writing my reply about not getting him "Wellstoned".

I feel quite certain that there is plenty of money in slush funds to commence paying for some serious ratfucking against SBS. I just hope the hackers can find them.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:27 PM

29. Was it someone in camp weathervane? n/t

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:53 PM

36. I'd rather see him on large commercial airlines.

Safety in numbers, hopefully.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:19 PM

34. .to read complete blog post later

Very interesting.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:35 PM

35. AKA-

"The Shadow Government" , Conspiracy theory? Look how many have proven to be true. Look it up , This would be right up their alley , They will fail because Bernie is a straight shooter and always has been, Then I think of Paul Wellstone and worry for Bernie, Nothing is beyond the realm when it comes to what the Corporations/ Republicans/ Third Way Democrats Will do to keep their Gravy Train deals lining their pockets. Corrupt to the Core these politicians have become.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:56 PM

37. my 38-year-old family member who lost his sincere faith in America...

......when the Supreme Court gave the presidency to W said this just the other day:

"I don't believe the establishment will let him become president."

How sad is that. How sad.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 08:57 PM

38. We should see more of you here, RP

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Response to leveymg (Reply #38)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 02:42 PM

69. Hey, good to see you!

I don't know if my dedication can match that of Bernie, but I'll definitely do more hanging out around here.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Reply #69)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 02:50 PM

70. Almost like old times.

First round's on me.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:33 PM

41. K/R

This is an intense article and I think a must read for every Bernie supporter

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:18 PM

47. We knew the system would try and 'ratfuck' Bernie's campaign from the get-go.

I mean, look at the BLM 'controversy.' Look at the failed meme that came up on here, 'what has Bernie done for women?'

I just posted on a thread that talked about media blackouts at Bernie's events to prevent live streaming.

The real question is, can Bernie win? I'm supporting him, so I say YES, but only with all our help.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:28 PM

50. I hope the ratfuckers are ready...

for the shitstorm to come.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #47)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:30 PM

66. I just read that Bernie2016TV has had problems livestreaming his events. Yesterday eg,

people were waiting for the event in Iowa, they reported they could not provide the coverage, once again.

They did explain some of the reasons for that and hopefully there will be efforts made to fix the problems.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:54 AM

56. From the source in the OP:

In a recent interview, at about the 29 minute mark, Johnson seems to echo this sentiment by stating, "We actually need to keep pushing people to dismantle the system." The larger question then is are these the genuine sentiments of quasi-anarchists or the underhanded machinations of agent provocateurs? Actually, it could be a combination of both: genuinely committed activists being manipulated by operatives with a vastly different agenda. The answer may lie in the quest that Deep Throat gave to Bob Woodward in All the President's Men: follow the money. Are there any powerful interests that stand to lose billions during a Sanders administration connected with Outside Agitators 206? I'd like to thank alwyn from Rigorous Intuition (and Project Willow for posting the image) for posting what friend Lassiter Jones found through a traceroute of their IP address and a check of the ownership on cqcounter.com which revealed it was owned by Merck and Co.



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Response to merrily (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 03:57 PM

71. whether a double-cross comes from anarchists or provocateurs doesn't make much

difference to me. it's still an ugly problem.

a lot of the young people i met during Occupy who called themselves anarchists, didn't have much appreciation for what that meant -- or much sense of how easily they were being manipulated by bad actors within the movement right here in our little town.

i guess we're never going to get rid of bad actors, so the best we can hope for is that we never forget how this shit goes down.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 08:35 AM

59. A very real possibility in my view.

I think the anti-BLM chorus from 'Sanders supporters' is the tip of the spear.
Just like the 'pro-Clinton' crowd that attacks attacks Sanders supporters.
It's a circular way of weakening the Democratic Party so the oligarchs feel less threatened.

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 10:45 AM

62. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

 


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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 11:53 AM

65. If, just if, "they" take out Bernie....

watch out for a *movement* to take out them.

I cannot tap out any more.....

I have seen this shit in the past as well as many of my friends, it's scary.

Lived thru the sixties. Not without repercussions. Protested much.
What? I am not at liberty to say. Just this.... Cannot get a passport for the last 40 years.

Think. Then think again. Do not be quite! The more, the better!

The more exposure, the more talking about a possible outtake make it harder for them.

Think football. The defenses, the offense.

But this is at a level that most *normal* people just can't comprehend.

The crap is coming down the road.
I have said this before, I'm former ASA.
Google it!
What's going on now was a practice in the seventies.
Knowledge of the masses, dissent, all thought out

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Response to robertpaulsen (Original post)

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:34 PM

67. Interesting

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Response to fredamae (Reply #77)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:05 PM

84. WOW! Does that explain the debate schedule?

If she lost what is, in theory, her home state........

This past week, the Democratic National Committee finally announced it would have a total of six debates beginning October 13th, 2015. This presents a huge obstacle to the three million plus New York voters who might watch the Democratic debates to educate themselves about the choice of candidates. The last day New Yorkers enrolled in another party can change their registration to Democrat in order to vote in the 2016 NY Democratic primary is October 9, 2015. Four days before the first debate. This means if non-Democrats like a Democrat in the debate, it will be too late for them to re-register to vote for that person in the April primary.


SHIT!

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Response to fredamae (Reply #77)

Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:57 PM

85. WTF is right!

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