Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumI just made you a Bernie adviser. Let's chat.
Imho I think Bernie needs to do two things to move forward. I'm hoping to start a conversation - not an argument.
He needs a better answer for socialism.
And about how raising taxes is going to save money for Americans. He needs to speak in simpler terms so ordinary Americans that are not political junkies like us will understand. America, the country where if it doesn't fit on a bumpersticker people don't understand.
Like I said I want to start a discussion. If you were advising Bernie, what would you recommend to him?
My thoughts ~
When it comes to socialism I wish he would talk more about social security, the roads we drive on, the public airwaves, public schools, parks, libraries, etc more than talking about other successful countries. Maybe say we already live in a democratic socialist country and the 1% has been chipping away at it.
When it comes to raising taxes to pay for healthcare (I am so tired of trying to make people understand this.) The only thing I can think of is explaining it in terms of balancing your checking account. Instead of writing a big check to the insurance companies you'll be writing a smaller check to pay taxes. ehhh. Not good because of the word taxes.... but maybe a little easier to grasp?
Can't wait to hear what my fellow "berniebots" come up with. I so badly want Bernie to win. Especially after watching the CNN forum tonite. He knocked it out of the park!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)1. The Socialism thing.
I believe he has pointed out how Social Security and many other things are Socialist programs. In fact, his official twitter tweeted this tonight during the Town Hall. https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/691805412631433216?lang=en
2. Raising Taxes.
This normally gets a HISS from voters, but the simplest answer is the best here. He's saying he will raise taxes, but people will save thousands elsewhere. Now the voter has to be curious enough to look that up. And here we supporters are on the internet, ready to answer.
jillan
(39,451 posts)he is in the general election.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)It'll get better on stage. But like you said, our nation needs information in little bites. Short attention spans and all that.
So how would someone give a civics lesson on stage, LIVE to the nation about how common democratic socialism is in our country?
I think that tweet will suffice for that answer.
The same applies to the whole tax thing. MATH = HARD so, really you have to keep it simple.
I'm certain that he, along with us, and our ability to create easy to digest memes to spread across social media is more than enough to help. It's how he's come this far!
jillan
(39,451 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)There's absolutely no 'increase' on anyone (or none of any significance) for anyone making
less than $250,000. What is so onerous about that?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)That, created by his supporters is why he's come this far. If we keep up the momentum, then everyone will get it.
jillan
(39,451 posts)As I said above, I'm looking to the general election. And people in this country are so dumbed down.
Personally I think he needs a soundbite, not a chart.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Monkey is one of our best strategists here.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)draa
(975 posts)Read this from Dkos.
Thanks to the Democratic Forum tonight, I got to see a Republican switch over to Bernie Sanders!
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/25/1475187/-Thanks-to-the-Democratic-Forum-tonight-I-got-to-see-a-Republican-switch-over-to-Bernie-Sanders
My Republican daughter is also a Bernie supporter and my sil leans his way. My sil hates Trump and if it's Bernie or Trump he'll go with Bernie. I'm sure there's a lot more like these examples here.
DaGimpster
(130 posts)I realize that's not very scientific, but we're going to find out if the rubber meets the road soon.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)The repubs and Hillary are going to lie that Bernie is going to tax the poorer members of our society
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I'd like to see a commercial along the lines of
"This is the JoeBlow family. This is what their budget looks like now."
Show an appropriate pie chart for rent/mortgage, bills, etc., with insurance, taxes, and "other" shown as discrete parts of the pie.
"And this is what their budget would be like under the single-payer healthcare system I'm proposing. Their taxes go up slightly" (increase the tax wedge while shrinking the "other" wedge) "but they don't pay for health insurance any more (make health insurance wedge go away while increasing the "other" wedge).
Show the two pie charts side by side. "Single payer healthcare means more money in your pocket. Anyone who tells you your taxes will go up without admitting that single payer will save you money isn't giving you the whole story."
grasswire
(50,130 posts)extremely simple, with real people in it. A short order cook, a hotel maid, etc.
Very simple language, too.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Or even bar charts, which IMO are even easier to see at a glance than pie charts. And it would be great if there were a series of commercials, for different families, even if some of them were only available online.
BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)he needs to focus on Social Security, Medicare, our roads, public airwaves, public schools, public libraries. He SHOULD say we already live in a democratic socialist country.
The tax issue is going to be a problem. We need to discuss.
jillan
(39,451 posts)I don't know.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)That implies there's something wrong with it, and there isn't. Explaining it as an investment in our country, in ourselves (slogan: "We do our best work when we work together, for the good of everyone" is fine, but he shouldn't stop saying socialism.
jillan
(39,451 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Although he should point out the many tax incentives that go to corporations, many of whom have sent jobs overseas. The anti-government types who scream the loudest about taxes aren't interested in lessening the burdens of the 99%. All they want to do is privatize and line their own pockets, while getting as many tax breaks for the rich as they can manage.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)you know, the one she wants to make sure the government can get into everyone's iphone and read their encrypted snapchats.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Like tonite if you watched. That was her answer to everything....zzzzzzzzz!
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)1. Socialism has to be defined beyond income redistribution--because that's what people already think. Cuomo did him a favor by couching it in terms of penalizing the "job creators" and allowing him to address the reverse robin hood redistribution that has been going on, but the idea of the commons and all the social programs that help define us as a nation need to be emphasized since too many people don't even understand that social security or insurance of any kind is a socialist program.
Hillary also did a very clever thing by implying that economic inequality was all that Bernie is worried about by talking about all the other inequalities that she had addressed over time. I think Bernie needs to address the whole socialism thing in a broader sense too. While I agree that economic inequality underlies most of the other problems, he should also talk about how privatization (capitalism) leads to Flint and other disasters--how privatization is just another way to distribute wealth to the already wealthy.
2. The tax problem with medicare for all perhaps could be explained better by simply saying that if your employer pays for your health care, they will pay the medicare cost of your health care--no increase in taxes for you.
If you pay your own health care, you will now simply pay medicare instead of an insurance company and your premiums will be much less.
In both cases you will have much less hassle, paperwork, no copays or deductions, and cannot be denied.
Response to jillan (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Co-operatives, intentional communities, the new Deal, etc. Never mind Demnark.
lostnfound
(16,179 posts)"socialized healthcare is like providing for the common defense"
"Effective government gets the snow plows out there clearing the streets at 5 AM so you don't have to -- something we all need"
Also, there's a saying that says we have developed socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor. The bank bailout was a giant life preserver so that the 1%ers could maintain their life style..necessary so they didn't pull everyone else down with them, but evidence of where the priorities are.
Private fire insurance vs public fireman.
lostnfound
(16,179 posts)There's nothing conservative about getting us into a $1.7 trillion war. What do we have to show for it?
Smart decisions to not get into needless wars can yield a peace dividend, which can be used to pay for better healthcare, infrastructure, and education.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)and saving $96 in health care savings ($5000/52) per week. Make a meme, make it viral.
And you get paid family medical leave and universal health care for every American.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)$1.60 a week? Wouldn't even buy a gallon of milk.
$96 a week? That's all our groceries.
A month of that is probably what I spent on my kid's clothes, including shoes, this past year.
A year of that is a junker car for people who are riding the bus now.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)So if any of you have access to the campaign, pass this on.
Bernie mentions strengthening social security by adding work credits for women who stay home to care for family.
THIS IS AN EQUAL PAY ISSUE.
THIS IS A FEMINIST ISSUE.
THIS IS A MENS ISSUE FOR STAY AT HOME DADS
THIS IS AN ISSUE FOR ELDERLY WOMEN today
CAREGIVERS SHOULD BE CALLED WORKERS and their hours of service should earn Social Security credits.
Please help me pass this message on. I think it's a winner.
Blue State Bandit
(2,122 posts)Something like this: (in my best Brooklyn accent)
I made the choice to run as a democrat because we are a natural fit with the democratic base electorate. Since joining the US House of Representatives some 25 years ago, I joined the Democratic Caucus and continue to do so since moving across the great hall to the Senate.
Now some have decided to tell you that my service in Congress has been worth nothing; that I got nothing done, and served only my ego. So I ask you, if the ACA was "the best that we could get" from a "divided" Congress, how much worse would it have been without my vote? How much worse would it have been without my amendment that provided money for community health centers, or the 8 million more people we covered in the ACA. I'm very proud of the work my staff and I did on that legislation.
So I ask you, If I was not there to provide my vote to overcome those; those within the Democratic Party in the Senate, many of whom took large amounts of campaign contribution for the Insurance industry, how many more Americans would be without medical insurance, or access to community health care facilities funded under the ACA that we have today? If I remember correctly, the Democrats HAD a 60 vote majority. How much better would it have been if my vote was the 61st or the 62nd?
I believe, if it wasn't for the money and political power wielded over the process -and a few of my Democratic colleagues- by the insurance industry, we would have the Universal, Single-Payer healthcare that then Senator Obama ran on in 2008, today.
phiddle
(789 posts)I am the owner/manager of a family business, an entrepreneur. My business, like most in this country, needs CUSTOMERS WITH CASH. I say "most businesses" because the financial industry is different, and antagonistic to my own; the financial industry needs clients with debt. Every dollar of debt which a person incurs for the basics of life is a dollar which they cannot potentially spend in my business.
When a person's income covers the basics---food, medical care, shelter, education---then they can consider spending a little in my own business. To raise people's incomes and lower their debt levels is crucial to the health of my business. This I would term "DEMAND SIDE ECONOMiCS", which results in a virtuous cycle---people support both my business and the larger economy better, which leads to more investment, employment and social stability.
On the contrary, every dollar of debt needed to pay for medical care, education, housing or life's essentials is a boon to the financial industry, but a drag on the rest of us. If a citizen has more debt, they come less often into my business and they spend less when they do come. I and my business are in effect paying for our refusal to provide the means of support to all people. The result is a cycle of vice---a squeeze on persons' incomes, leading to greater debt, more problems for business, less employment and less meaningful employment, and greater social problems. This is widely known as SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS. Notice that this is centered in the financial industry, and is antagonistic to the interests of most citizens and most businesses.
From 1945-1980 or so we practiced DEMAND SIDE ECONOMiCS, the result being widespread prosperity, strong institutions and leading the world in most measures---health, education, technology, manufacturing, so on and so forth. What is Demand Side Economics?
A. Rising incomes in the lower and middle classes due to strong unions, rising minimum wage, Social Security and Medicare). This insures both that the individual can pay his/her way and in the process lift the economy.
B. Heavy taxation of the top 1% to keep money in circulation and to prevent it from pooling at the top.
C. Strong investment in PUBLIC GOODS such as schools, highways and infrastructure, Social and Medical insurance. This keeps people active in the economy, both in employment and in spending, and at the same time gives strength, stability and the preconditions for growth. (BTW: I myself think that this is the definition of a "Social Democrat"---that the society AS A WHOLE provides all members of society with meaningful access to certain fundamentals such as work sufficient to provide the basics of life, also infrastructure, retirement and health care.)
D. Strong regulation, especially of the financial sector which by its nature is both predatory and leads to boom-bust cycles.
Then starting in the mid-70s we got away from that, with the result that we've had lower growth, rising poverty, a declining middle class and greater social problems. We were sold Supply Side Economics, and told that if we just lowered taxes on the top incomes, reduced investment in public goods, reduced taxation of the wealthy, and set the financial sector free, the results would be prosperity for all. But, as we've learned, the result is misery trickling down, rather than prosperity. We have become a "Suck it Up" economy where more work is extracted from most citizens, while providing them less and less security, and they are left to fill in the rising gaps with more work, more debt and poorer health (in every sense of the word). Whereas in 1970 we led the world in many categories of well-being, today we lag far behind the developed world in most measures.
Bernie's plan is to do what we already know from our own history works: raise demand by increasing the minimum wage to a LIVING wage, raise Social Security to relieve the squeeze on the elderly, strong infrastructure spending, provide for the more efficient and widespread financing of health care, regulate predatory finance, and progressive taxation. In short, it's demand side economics.
I'm convinced that I and my business will be better off under Bernie's program. Why? Demand side economics will give me more customers with cash. Additionally, my business will spend less on employees' health care, and will have more to left to invest, grow and employ others. Just as we see better with 2 eyes, walk better with 2 legs, we will function better with 2 economic engines powering growth in 2 different ways. Entrepreneurial Capitalism and Democratic Socialism are not antagonistic, but complementary.